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East New York

R179 Discussion Thread

East New York

Program Update effective 2/20/19

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16 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

3014 was delivered with ads in it way back in 2016, so I don't think there's any "test trains can't have ads" rule.

I was always of the mind that the ad spaces on a brand new car type should be used to advertise the features of the new fleet the way other cities have...

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Thing is, with the 179s, there are no glaring differences between these cars and the 160s. While there are cosmetic upgrades and a different propulsion system between the two classes, it's not an entirely new design, unlike what the 211s will be compared to the 160s/179s.

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3 minutes ago, Lance said:

Thing is, with the 179s, there are no glaring differences between these cars and the 160s. While there are cosmetic upgrades and a different propulsion system between the two classes, it's not an entirely new design, unlike what the 211s will be compared to the 160s/179s.

Not only that, but I think with every new car class they hold a special "demo" at Hoyt St like they did with the R160's.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Not only that, but I think with every new car class they hold a special "demo" at Hoyt St like they did with the R160's

I was at Hoyt for the R160s.

Interestingly, they did it at my home station, Kew Gardens–Union Turnpike for the R110As.

img_128184.jpg

Car: R-110A (Kawasaki, 1992) 8010 
Photo by: Doug Grotjahn
Collection of: Joe Testagrose
Date: 12/5/1992

[THIS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE TRANSIT IMAGES OF ALL TIME – It is my home station, A Division cars are on the B Division, requiring gap fillers, old signage can be seen, including an old sign for the Interboro Parkway, you can see the small Union T'pke signs on the columns, and you can see an old E sign on the express track on the right.

img?institutionId=0&user=527681&id=46994

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/26222745/daily_news/ 

Edited by Union Tpke
PHOTO COMMENT
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9 minutes ago, Lance said:

Thing is, with the 179s, there are no glaring differences between these cars and the 160s. While there are cosmetic upgrades and a different propulsion system between the two classes, it's not an entirely new design, unlike what the 211s will be compared to the 160s/179s.

True, but considering the R179’s are running on lines that have been operating at least some age old equipment for years prior. It may make sense to lightly advertise the new features the train has over all the older others. 

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Why though? Again, this isn't a revolutionary new car design. Almost identical trains have been operating on the (E) 8th Avenue local for over a decade now, as well as the (C) 8th Avenue local since 2013. When it's a jump to a wholly new car class across the system, sure, they should advertise it. However, when it's just more of the same, just with different finishes, it's seems like more of a waste to advertise existing technology that has been in place since the mid-2000s. That's just me though.

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2 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

Interestingly, they did it at my home station, Kew Gardens–Union Turnpike for the R110As.

img_128184.jpg

That seems somewhat odd, considering there was the R110B that would've better fit the station, no?

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19 minutes ago, ibroketheprinter said:

That seems somewhat odd, considering there was the R110B that would've better fit the station, no?

Maybe there was a 5 car set of R110As and a 3 car set of R110Bs.

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6 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

 

 

img_128184.jpg

 

 

I was fortunate to ride the r110A once and the r110B twice. I was a kid at that time. They weren't aesthetically as impressive as the NTTs, and they perform worse than other trains, including the redbirds.

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With the heavily tinted cab windows, every t/o is a ghost train operator. Why did the (MTA) decide to go with these windows ?

Also, many t/o's disliked the stiff right-sided power handles of the 160s/143s.. so why didn't they have it designed in the middle like the 142s ?

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1 hour ago, brakethrow said:

Why did the (MTA) decide to go with these windows ?

Privacy and likely security as well. You often see operators putting their jackets or even newspaper over the windows for further privacy. 

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3 hours ago, Enjineer said:

Privacy and likely security as well. You often see operators putting their jackets or even newspaper over the windows for further privacy. 

Privacy? Far from it. It’s for protection and glare from the sun. One side of your face getting baked is not fun.

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4 hours ago, Enjineer said:

Privacy and likely security as well. You often see operators putting their jackets or even newspaper over the windows for further privacy. 

I believe Brakethrow was reffering to the windshields,  not the cab doors. 

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2 hours ago, Far Rock Depot said:

I believe Brakethrow was reffering to the windshields,  not the cab doors.

Ah, my bad! I never even really noticed the windshields were that tinted, but that's pretty logical that they'd do it to reduce glare. Whoops!

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1 hour ago, ibroketheprinter said:

Where do y'all think the R179s will go after the delivery of the R211s?

Probably they'll stay where they are now. I don't think they ever were slated to be assigned elsewhere than the A/C/J/Z. The A/C might also get 211s since there are still 46s there. 

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25 minutes ago, Enjineer said:

Probably they'll stay where they are now. I don't think they ever were slated to be assigned elsewhere than the A/C/J/Z. The A/C might also get 211s since there are still 46s there. 

True. Also, 8th Avenue CTBC will be compatible with the r179's, r160's and r211's. CPW may be part of the 8th Avenue CTBC, which may lead to the B/D lo possibly lose the r68's.

QBL CTBC will be compatible with the r211s as well as the r160's. Therefore, some r211's might also go to the F and R. 

The NQW will eventually lose the r160's, which might go to QBL and/or B, C, D, while the NQW might get the r68's from the B/D, since a good chunk of the r211's will be delivered before CTBC is completed in QBL and 8th Avenue.

 

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On 3/5/2019 at 5:23 PM, Lawrence St said:

Source?

Summary report of ongoing R-179 activity started showing 3010-19 again early this week.  It only reflects unaccepted cars and had NOT shown the 5-car pilot train prior to this since it went into revenue service on February 10.

End result:  30-Day Test still ongoing as of report date, but exactly why or how far along is not indicated. 

This isn't necessarily a bad thing; the 5-car sets still must await completion of the 4-car arrivals before their delivery begins.  NYCT can only process so many cars at any point in time and there are only 4 more 4's left to go.

As of this week (ending March 7) there were 182 on the premises:  3010-19, 3050-3069, 3074-3225.  3206-13 were burning in.  3214-3221 initial testing.  3222-25 prep.

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5 minutes ago, m2fwannabe said:

Summary report of ongoing R-179 activity started showing 3010-19 again early this week.  It only reflects unaccepted cars and had NOT shown the 5-car pilot train prior to this since it went into revenue service on February 10.

End result:  30-Day Test still ongoing as of report date, but exactly why or how far along is not indicated. 

This isn't necessarily a bad thing; the 5-car sets still must await completion of the 4-car arrivals before their delivery begins.  NYCT can only process so many cars at any point in time and there are only 4 more 4's left to go. 

As of this week (ending March 7) there were 182 on the premises:  3010-19, 3050-3069, 3074-3225.  3206-13 were burning in.  3214-3221 initial testing.  3222-25 prep.

Can someone explain to me how it is the 5 car sets need a separate 30 day test and must wait for all 4 car sets to be delivered first. Isn't this the exact same model with identical features; how does the addition of 1 middle car change so many technical things??

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9 hours ago, U-BahnNYC said:

Can someone explain to me how it is the 5 car sets need a separate 30 day test and must wait for all 4 car sets to be delivered first. Isn't this the exact same model with identical features; how does the addition of 1 middle car change so many technical things??

Most importantly, every car is (potentially) different as constructed and the testing must be performed and conform to class specifications individually, regardless if its a 4-, 5- or (as with the R-188) even a 6-car link.  The success of any single car (or unit) is not considered a success for the associated overall fleet of cars in any way.

The pilot, production and delivery sequence was and is per advance agreement between NYCT (Car Equipment) and Bombardier.  Initial priority was granted to the 260 8-car trains (at the time to begin in 2015) to allow replacement of the 272 existing Phase I R-32's and MK R-42's.  Subsequent changes in service and planning have rent those plans asunder against a backdrop of overall fleet enlargement (rather than 1-for-1 replacement), but Bombardier still continued to build on the original trajectory and thus produced and delivered the reduced quantity (188) of 4-car sets first.  NYCT more recently revised its desired quantity of 5-car sets several times in lieu of lateness penalty payments.  IIRC, it first went from 40 to 80 to 120, then 120 to 130, while concurrently reducing the quantity of 4-car sets from the original 260 to 220, then 196, and finally 188.  The final, VERY revised quantity of 120 5-car R-179's was then moved to the end of the production "run" out of necessity at the Plattsburgh end.

Also to reiterate, NYCT is currently capable of processing one linked set (regardless of length) at a time, involving personnel at 207 Street and Pitkin, Engineering and Car Acceptance and finally RTO for (test) crews, instruction and logistics.  Then there are the vendor (Bombardier) representatives.  Each unit will proceed through the same process the same way, regardless of length.

Through time, across numerous types of equipment contracts, work sites and procedures can vary.  For example, the first batch of R-160B's that were delivered from KRC in 2007 were delivered to and processed at Coney Island Inspection House, where they ultimately entered service on (N)(Q) and (W).  The R-160A-1's were initially delivered at 207 Street but processed at East New York, where they went into service on the old (brownM) and later (J)(Z) as well as (after a partial CBTC upgrade) (L).  As the program proceeded, later R-160s of all types were delivered to 207, then processed at Pitkin, then tested from Jamaica for (E)(F)(R)(V) or East New York for (J)(M)(Z) .

 

.   This is manly because of storage space and "pit time" considerations at the various facilities.

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Are 3000-3009 still shown as "active" in the revenue roster? Seems weird they started the 5 car order at 3010 instead of 3000 since the R110B's have been OOS for almost 2 decades...

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16 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Are 3000-3009 still shown as "active" in the revenue roster? Seems weird they started the 5 car order at 3010 instead of 3000 since the R110B's have been OOS for almost 2 decades...

At least one car is part of the museum fleet, and 3005 is at the NYCTA Training School and used for training purposes (I believe for NYPD, but not entirely sure).

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32 minutes ago, Bosco said:

At least one car is part of the museum fleet, and 3005 is at the NYCTA Training School and used for training purposes (I believe for NYPD, but not entirely sure).

When was this confirmed?

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