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East New York

R179 Discussion Thread

East New York

Program Update effective 2/20/19

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Today I seen 3010 - 3019, 3070 - 3074 hooked up to 3146 -3149, and an another 8 car 179 from ENY, one of the cars were numbered in the 3080's at Pikin.  Wonder why that set is at Pikin, warranty work there? There visible from the apartment building ramp. I went there to see if the newest 5 car set were out but they wasn't, probably inside the maintenance shop doing whatever it is they do before train set starts burn in testing..

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42 minutes ago, Bay Ridge Express said:

What exactly is the justification for moving the (G) back to Forest Hills?

To help out the (R) I guess, but I don't agree. They eliminated the (G) from the Queens Blvd Line because of constant general orders on the corridor every night and every weekend. The secondary reason was ridership. How many people are actually traveling between Queens Blvd and Crosstown to be exact? The (G) should not go back to Queens Blvd at all ever, at least in my opinion. Once the constant general orders on the Queens Blvd Line is finished, weekend (R) service will increase back from 12 minutes (5 tph) to 10 minutes (6 tph) or 7-8 minutes (8 tph) and is the sole service on 4th Avenue and Queens Blvd every weekend.

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1 hour ago, Jemorie said:

To help out the (R) I guess, but I don't agree. They eliminated the (G) from the Queens Blvd Line because of constant general orders on the corridor every night and every weekend. The secondary reason was ridership. How many people are actually traveling between Queens Blvd and Crosstown to be exact? The (G) should not go back to Queens Blvd at all ever, at least in my opinion. Once the constant general orders on the Queens Blvd Line is finished, weekend (R) service will increase back from 12 minutes (5 tph) to 10 minutes (6 tph) or 7-8 minutes (8 tph) and is the sole service on 4th Avenue and Queens Blvd every weekend.

The (G) maintains the headways in my opinion. While most people dont ride it from Crosstown to Forest Hills, people can still transfer at Jackson Hts or Court Sq for the (7)(E)(M) or (R).

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

The (G) maintains the headways in my opinion. While most people dont ride it from Crosstown to Forest Hills, people can still transfer at Jackson Hts or Court Sq for the (7)(E)(M) or (R).

Same reason why extending a Nassau Street line to Bay Ridge would help the 4th Avenue local a lot, even though the extended line wouldn't be the fastest way to get to Midtown.

Anyway, it's good to see that car deliveries are progressing fine. Hopefully there's no more major holdups.

Edited by P3F

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3 hours ago, Bay Ridge Express said:

What exactly is the justification for moving the (G) back to Forest Hills?

To provide more weekend local service, which is needed along QBL.

If the G isn't extended to Forest Hills, then the other option would definitely be adding more trains to the R, which will be possible with QBL CTBC and the r211's. That would also kill two birds with the same stone because that would mean more local service along 4th Avenue, which needs more local service along 4th Avenue as well.

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6 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

To provide more weekend local service, which is needed along QBL.

If the G isn't extended to Forest Hills, then the other option would definitely be adding more trains to the R, which will be possible with QBL CTBC and the r211's. That would also kill two birds with the same stone because that would mean more local service along 4th Avenue, which needs more local service along 4th Avenue as well.

They'd probably extend the (M) rather than bring back the (G) in that case

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6 hours ago, 2Line1291 said:

The one good thing about this R179 order is there's now a surplus of 8 car B division cars. Too bad they couldn't be a large amount of 10-car R179 sets like the 8-car version. As I mentioned in the R211 thread I can see the (A)(F)(R) and Rockaway Shuttle becoming 100% R211. In relation to the R179 though i can see

-  (C) having a mixed fleet of all the 10-car R179s and the R160Bs from the (F) 

-  (J)(Z) has all the 8-car R179s.

-  (G)  having all the R160s from the (J)(Z) 

This makes sense. I also see the N/W and possibly the Q getting r68's as a result of 8th Avenue CTBC, while the B/D gets NTT's (r160's, r211's).  I do see the C getting r160's either from the F or the N/W trains and possibly the 10 car r179's, although the A might still keep the 10 car r179's, which is going to reminisce the 90's when the A had mostly r44's and some r32's.

 

 

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

They'd probably extend the (M) rather than bring back the (G) in that case

The G makes sense for weekends and I would even push for overnights too... the M to 96th on weekends works perfectly... R needs help on 4th Ave... I’m not opposed of the J or even giving the Z it’s own life by having the Z go to Bay Ridge 

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5 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

One wrinkle though...

They're not going to install CBTC on the 8 car R179s just to put them on a non CBTC line (and one that's even not planned to get it during Fast Forward), so it's more likely that the 8 car R179s go to the (G) for Crosstown CBTC than stay on the (J)(Z) 

They just might thought.  Four primary reasons.  1) car shuffles. We all know I certain class of cars won't really be exclusive to a single line for too long.   Yeah there's been some exceptions,  butnwith CBTC coming,  they'll need all the compatible Cars they can get. With that being said the other three reasons come into play: 2) the M although the Jamaica El won't see cbtc anytime within ten years, both Sixth Ave and QBL will. 3) the L. Already has cbtc. And well,  car shuffles.  4)we don't know for a fact if and when the lengthening of C trains will happen,  nor if it will be every set,  but both Fulton and 8Th Ave will be getting cbtc.   And although current projections of what lines get them when may factor in that 211's will be running,  flexibility will be needed as a just in case. 

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40 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

This makes sense. I also see the N/W and possibly the Q getting r68's as a result of 8th Avenue CTBC, while the B/D gets NTT's (r160's, r211's).  I do see the C getting r160's either from the F or the N/W trains and possibly the 10 car r179's, although the A might still keep the 10 car r179's, which is going to reminisce the 90's when the A had mostly r44's and some r32's.

 

 

 

 

 

I Doubt the (Q) will get R68s, More likely is the (N) and (W) than the (Q) will get R68s, also R160s will never go away from the (Q),

8th Avenue CBTC will be installed from Colombus Circle to Jay St MetroTech then the (A) will be all R211s, while the (C) all R179s and the (E) all R160s. (B) and (D) might retain its R68s until Mid to Late 2020's, (Q) will still kept the R160s.

(G) will get the R160s from the (F) as a result of Crosstown CBTC, then All (F) will be R211s.

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7 hours ago, 2Line1291 said:

The one good thing about this R179 order is there's now a surplus of 8 car B division cars. Too bad they couldn't be a large amount of 10-car R179 sets like the 8-car version. As I mentioned in the R211 thread I can see the (A)(F)(R) and Rockaway Shuttle becoming 100% R211. In relation to the R179 though i can see

-  (C) having a mixed fleet of all the 10-car R179s and the R160Bs from the (F) 

-  (J)(Z) has all the 8-car R179s.

-  (G)  having all the R160s from the (J)(Z) 

Good idea is that (C) will have all the R179s

(J)(Z) all the R179s

(G) all the R160s from the (F)

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7 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

To provide more weekend local service, which is needed along QBL.

If the G isn't extended to Forest Hills, then the other option would definitely be adding more trains to the R, which will be possible with QBL CTBC and the r211's. That would also kill two birds with the same stone because that would mean more local service along 4th Avenue, which needs more local service along 4th Avenue as well.

Nah, they'll still run with 20 min headways SB. 6 min headways on the (R) at QBL does not equal the same thing on 4 Av. Good dispatching, though, and rerouting some extra (N) or (J) trains might help.

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Putting the (G) back on Queens Boulevard is one of these pretty objectively bad ideas that won't die. Remember folks, Queens has a wee bit of an issue with Manhattan capacity, and every (G) train that runs beyond Court Square is an (M) and (R) train you're not running. There's nothing that the (G) can do that expanded (M)(R) can't -- except for taking riders somewhere they generally don't want to go, of course. 

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2 hours ago, RR503 said:

Putting the (G) back on Queens Boulevard is one of these pretty objectively bad ideas that won't die. Remember folks, Queens has a wee bit of an issue with Manhattan capacity, and every (G) train that runs beyond Court Square is an (M) and (R) train you're not running. There's nothing that the (G) can do that expanded (M)(R) can't -- except for taking riders somewhere they generally don't want to go, of course. 

Rush hours, yes. But on weekends, other than running an express via the local, the easiest way to give Queens Blvd local more service is to extend the (G) to serve the local stops (and therefore provide transfer options). It would be a shorter extension than the (M) and it would remain OPTO, unlike the (M) which would need to be full length (think of how ridiculous it would be to send a 240 foot train up 6th Avenue).

Of course, extending the (M) is favorable in other regards, as it would be more convenient for riders, and it would eliminate the confusion associated with a weekends-only extension.

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14 hours ago, subwayfan1998 said:

I Doubt the (Q) will get R68s, More likely is the (N) and (W) than the (Q) will get R68s, also R160s will never go away from the (Q),

8th Avenue CBTC will be installed from Colombus Circle to Jay St MetroTech then the (A) will be all R211s, while the (C) all R179s and the (E) all R160s. (B) and (D) might retain its R68s until Mid to Late 2020's, (Q) will still kept the R160s.

(G) will get the R160s from the (F) as a result of Crosstown CBTC, then All (F) will be R211s.

All the 10 car r179's will not be enough to cover the entire C fleet. The C will still need either 10 r160's or r211's to cover the rest of the C fleet.

The G will not get 10 car trains as a result of the surplus of 8 car r160's and r179's.

The B/D will most likely lose the r68's as a result of 8th Avenue CTBC. Although, both lines run on 6th Avenue, they often get rerouted through 8th Avenue, due to track work and other issues. Also, work on 6th Avenue CTBC will begin after 8th Avenue CTBC is done, which means the D will most likely run through 8th Avenue during that time.

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1 minute ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

All the 10 car r179's will not be enough to cover the entire C fleet. The C will still need either 10 r160's or r211's to cover the rest of the C fleet.

The G will not get 10 car trains as a result of the surplus of 8 car r160's and r179's.

The B/D will most likely lose the r68's as a result of 8th Avenue CTBC. Although, both lines run on 6th Avenue, they often get rerouted through 8th Avenue, due to track work and other issues. Also, work on 6th Avenue CTBC will begin after 8th Avenue CTBC is done, which means the D will most likely run through 8th Avenue during that time.

(B) and (D) doesn't run from Jay St Metrotech to Colombus Circle where 8th Avenue CBTC will be Installed, 6th Avenue CBTC will begin following 5 years along with the Broadway and 7th Avenue CBTC. 8th Avenue CBTC doesn't include

R179 will have 320 Cars when it fully completed its delivery, (C) has 144 Subway Cars same thing as the (J) and (Z) trains do, 144 + 144 = 288, 288 - 320 = 32 so R179 will be enough to cover the Entire (C) Fleet.

(Q) will keep all it's R160s while (N) or (W) might get R68s from the (B) and (D) or (F) will give 52 R160s to the (G) since (G) has 52 Fleets while the rest might be given to the (B) and (D)

transform_map.png?format=1000w

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1 minute ago, subwayfan1998 said:

R179 will have 320 Cars when it fully completed its delivery, (C) has 144 Subway Cars same thing as the (J) and (Z) trains do, 144 + 144 = 288, 288 - 320 = 32 so R179 will be enough to cover the Entire (C) Fleet.

This is flat out incorrect...

The R179 order has two component parts: 188 cars in four car sets and 130 cars in five car sets. There are currently 12.5 trains (100 cars) on the (J)(Z) and 11 trains (88 cars) on the (C) and the 13 ten car trains are for the (A)

The only route that you could fully equip with 8 car R179s would be the (G) which uses 13 trains at peak times plus spares. The (C) uses 18 trains plus spares and the (J)(Z) use 20 trains plus spares.

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6 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

This is flat out incorrect...

The R179 order has two component parts: 188 cars in four car sets and 130 cars in five car sets. There are currently 12.5 trains (100 cars) on the (J)(Z) and 11 trains (88 cars) on the (C) and the 13 ten car trains are for the (A)

The only route that you could fully equip with 8 car R179s would be the (G) which uses 13 trains at peak times plus spares. The (C) uses 18 trains plus spares and the (J)(Z) use 20 trains plus spares.

So Many Car sets are on the (A)(C)(J) and (Z) Trains?

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27 minutes ago, subwayfan1998 said:

(B) and (D) doesn't run from Jay St Metrotech to Colombus Circle where 8th Avenue CBTC will be Installed, 6th Avenue CBTC will begin following 5 years along with the Broadway and 7th Avenue CBTC. 8th Avenue CBTC doesn't include

R179 will have 320 Cars when it fully completed its delivery, (C) has 144 Subway Cars same thing as the (J) and (Z) trains do, 144 + 144 = 288, 288 - 320 = 32 so R179 will be enough to cover the Entire (C) Fleet.

(Q) will keep all it's R160s while (N) or (W) might get R68s from the (B) and (D) or (F) will give 52 R160s to the (G) since (G) has 52 Fleets while the rest might be given to the (B) and (D)

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Wait the (A) and (S) are suppose to be getting CBTC? Never knew that.

One thing I never understood is why they dont test CBTC on the 42nd St(S) .

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1 minute ago, Lawrence St said:

Wait the (A) and (S) are suppose to be getting CBTC? Never knew that.

One thing I never understood is why they dont test CBTC on the 42nd St(S) .

(A) from Jay St - Metrotech to Lefferts Boulevard and Far Rockaway and Rockaway (S) will be getting CBTC in next 5 years.

Same bro don't know why they don't test CBTC on the 42nd Street (S)

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, subwayfan1998 said:

Same bro don't know why they don't test CBTC on the 42nd Street (S)

Both of the yards that 42nd Street Shuttle is a part of is R62As and those aren't getting NTTs anytime soon. The (MTA) is likely waiting for the R262s to come in to begin CBTC installation on that line. 

Edited by TheNewYorkElevated
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, subwayfan1998 said:

(B) and (D) doesn't run from Jay St Metrotech to Colombus Circle where 8th Avenue CBTC will be Installed, 6th Avenue CBTC will begin following 5 years along with the Broadway and 7th Avenue CBTC. 8th Avenue CBTC doesn't include

R179 will have 320 Cars when it fully completed its delivery, (C) has 144 Subway Cars same thing as the (J) and (Z) trains do, 144 + 144 = 288, 288 - 320 = 32 so R179 will be enough to cover the Entire (C) Fleet.

(Q) will keep all it's R160s while (N) or (W) might get R68s from the (B) and (D) or (F) will give 52 R160s to the (G) since (G) has 52 Fleets while the rest might be given to the (B) and (D)

transform_map.png?format=1000w

This map shows that the Bronx is the most neglected borough by the MTA. Not enough subway lines, crappy bus service and no CTBC. Sad.

Also, just to be clear @subwayfan1998, there are only 13 10 car r179's. The C needs at least 18 10 car trains. Unfortunately, the 8 car r179's cannot be converted into 10 car trains. That is why there is a surplus of 8 car trains. As a result, the G will not get any r160's from the F. The F runs 10 car trains. If the F, N/W lose their r160's they will most likely go to the C, B/D, while the N/W gets the r68's. The G will get 8 car trains (r160's or r179's), since the C, which currently has 8 car trains, will become full length with 10 car trains and the G is the only line outside ENY that can accommodate 8 car trains. 

Let's see what happens. There is still strong chance that the A will keep some if not all 10 car r179's once all r211's are in service.

 

Edited by subwaycommuter1983

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