R179 Discussion Thread

[Around the Horn]

9 minutes ago, happy283 said:

Doesnt really make sense when your trying to upgrade the entire signal system but you dont order cars that are installed with it.

That's what happens when you don't have a set CBTC standard at the time of purchase.

In fact the R211s only just had enough lead time to reflect the new systemwide standard for new installs set by the QBL project and Kawasaki and Thales had to rush to figure exactly how they were going to go about installing the CBTC kits at the factory.

[happy283]

4 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

That's what happens when you don't have a set CBTC standard at the time of purchase.

In fact the R211s only just had enough lead time to reflect the new systemwide standard for new installs set by the QBL project and Kawasaki and Thales had to rush to figure exactly how they were going to go about installing the CBTC kits at the factory.

What exactly is the set CBTC standard? I have heard that QBL CBTC and  line CBTC are not compatable with one another.

[Around the Horn]

22 minutes ago, happy283 said:

What exactly is the set CBTC standard? I have heard that QBL CBTC and  line CBTC are not compatable with one another.

Siemens, Thales, Mitsubishi and the MTA have all agreed on a common design for CBTC installs (QBL is first install to follow it). The difference between QBL and the line is that it predates this agreement and it is somewhat outdated technologically.

[MysteriousBtrain]

12 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

Siemens, Thales, Mitsubishi and the MTA have all agreed on a common design for CBTC installs (QBL is first install to follow it). The difference between QBL and the line is that it predates this agreement and it is somewhat outdated technologically.

Is it possible the may need another project to be compatible with the rest of the subway? (Not that it needs it really)

[Rigojefte Galo]

On 1/7/2011 at 9:17 PM, EE Broadway Local said:

As of now, the R179 order is for 290 cars. There is an Option 1 for 50 additional cars, which if exercised, would total 340 of the original planned 420 R179 cars.

 

With 250 R179s arranged as 5 car sets (plus the 50 additional Option 1 cars), they could go on the or even lines (ten car trains).

 

With 40 R179s arranged as 4 car sets, they could go on the (J)/(Z) or lines (eight car trains) or even the line (four car trains).

 

On the line, the 40 R179s arranged as 4 car sets would allow for 10 train sets; On the (J)/(Z) or lines, they would allow for 5 train sets.

 

The R32 Brightliners would see their 50th anniversary on September 9, 2014; the R46s will see their 40th anniversary in 2015; the R68/R68As not until 2026-2028.

On 1/7/2011 at 11:29 AM, LRG said:

Cool, I hope the award goes to Kawasaki.

 

On 1/7/2011 at 11:24 AM, East New York said:

After much anticipation, and delays, the MTA is finally set to awards a base contract for 290 cars in little more than 90 days.:cool:

 

The order will consist of:

*50 trains made up of 5 cars each.

*10 trains made up of 4 cars each.

 

Included in the contract are funds for training, spare parts, tools, diagnostic testing equipment, and other s

On 1/7/2011 at 11:24 AM, East New York said:

After much anticipation, and delays, the MTA is finally set to awards a base contract for 290 cars in little more than 90 days.:cool:

 

The order will consist of:

*50 trains made up of 5 cars each.

*10 trains made up of 4 cars each.

 

Included in the contract are funds for training, spare parts, tools, diagnostic testing equipment, and other services that will be needed to support the fleet. The awards was originally scheduled for August of last year.

 

UPDATE: August 2012

"What do New York City straphangers share in common with the folks in Plattsburgh, New York?

 

Both got some welcome news when the MTA and Bombardier Transportation inked the contract to manufacture 300 new R179 subways cars at Bombardier’s Plattsburgh facility. The order specifies10 prototypes for testing and approval, followed by 50 five-car sets and 10 four-car sets, with revenue service expected around late 2016.

 

For upstate residents, the $599 million deal will mean some 500 jobs and related revenue stimulus. For riders on NYC Transit’s lettered B Division lines, it will mean a fleet of state-of-the-art subway cars to retire the aging R32s and R42s, some of which are approaching 50 years old, well past the expected service life of a subway car. The R179s are also slated for use on the Second Avenue Subway.

 

What will the new cars look like?

 

“The 60-foot shell won’t look too different from the R160s you see on the lettered lines today,” says Michael Wetherell, vice president and chief mechanical officer, Division of Car Equipment, Subways. “Those design specifications have proven very successful. But as we work on this new order, we look forward to introducing a number of improvements.”

 

Lighting, climate controls, and digital voice announcements will all be upgraded. For riders, the most visible change will be in communications, including the strip map displays.

 

As Wetherell explains, “Instead of a display map that counts down the stops, the new cars will have a route indicator with more flexible messaging capacity. The new cars’ audio and text message displays will also have greater flexibility, allowing NYC Transit to quickly update service modifications and scheduling information.

Other improvements will be less visible. While the cars are not being purchased with closed-circuit television fully loaded, they will include the necessary wiring and conduits for future security camera installations. The new cars will also be lighter. By removing propulsion motors, lightening the floors, and making other materials changes, the trimmer R179s will improve overall energy efficiency.

 

“We are constantly looking for ways to reduce unnecessary weight,” Wetherell says. “It makes a real difference. Every pound of weight you can cut adds up to a significant energy saving over the life of a subway fleet.”

Though work in Plattsburgh has begun, much remains to be done before straphangers can actually enjoy their new ride.

 

According to Wetherell, the design specifications will be drafted and reviewed over the next four to six months. After initial design, ten R179 prototypes will be delivered in about 33 months to undergo another nine to 12 months of track testing. Full scale production and revenue service is scheduled for late 2016 or early 2017.

 

“The design and review process never really stops,” Wetherell says. “We are very excited about working with the design engineers at Bombardier, and will be reviewing every detail very closely to make sure we get the best possible product.”

 

Source: http://us.bombardier...se_04062012.htm

Gervices that will be needed to support the fleet. The awards was originally scheduled for August of last year.

 

UPDATE: August 2012

"What do New York City straphangers share in common with the folks in Plattsburgh, New York?

 

Both got some welcome news when the MTA and Bombardier Transportation inked the contract to manufacture 300 new R179 subways cars at Bombardier’s Plattsburgh facility. The order specifies10 prototypes for testing and approval, followed by 50 five-car sets and 10 four-car sets, with revenue service expected around late 2016.

 

For upstate residents, the $599 million deal will mean some 500 jobs and related revenue stimulus. For riders on NYC Transit’s lettered B Division lines, it will mean a fleet of state-of-the-art subway cars to retire the aging R32s and R42s, some of which are approaching 50 years old, well past the expected service life of a subway car. The R179s are also slated for use on the Second Avenue Subway.

 

What will the new cars look like?

 

“The 60-foot shell won’t look too different from the R160s you see on the lettered lines today,” says Michael Wetherell, vice president and chief mechanical officer, Division of Car Equipment, Subways. “Those design specifications have proven very successful. But as we work on this new order, we look forward to introducing a number of improvements.”

 

Lighting, climate controls, and digital voice announcements will all be upgraded. For riders, the most visible change will be in communications, including the strip map displays.

 

As Wetherell explains, “Instead of a display map that counts down the stops, the new cars will have a route indicator with more flexible messaging capacity. The new cars’ audio and text message displays will also have greater flexibility, allowing NYC Transit to quickly update service modifications and scheduling information.

Other improvements will be less visible. While the cars are not being purchased with closed-circuit television fully loaded, they will include the necessary wiring and conduits for future security camera installations. The new cars will also be lighter. By removing propulsion motors, lightening the floors, and making other materials changes, the trimmer R179s will improve overall energy efficiency.

 

“We are constantly looking for ways to reduce unnecessary weight,” Wetherell says. “It makes a real difference. Every pound of weight you can cut adds up to a significant energy saving over the life of a subway fleet.”

Though work in Plattsburgh has begun, much remains to be done before straphangers can actually enjoy their new ride.

 

According to Wetherell, the design specifications will be drafted and reviewed over the next four to six months. After initial design, ten R179 prototypes will be delivered in about 33 months to undergo another nine to 12 months of track testing. Full scale production and revenue service is scheduled for late 2016 or early 2017.

 

“The design and review process never really stops,” Wetherell says. “We are very excited about working with the design engineers at Bombardier, and will be reviewing every detail very closely to make sure we get the best possible product.”

 

Source: http://us.bombardier...se_04062012.htm

What's difference between R179 and R142 there both made from bombardier how come the R179 has problem and not R142 because R142 never had a problem is made in 2000 and R179 is made 2016 as became a lemon issue I'm hoping they repair the issue problem soon. 

[MysteriousBtrain]

1 minute ago, Rigojefte Galo said:

 

What's difference between R179 and R142 there both made from bombardier how come the R179 has problem and not R142 because R142 never had a problem is made in 2000 and R179 is made 2016 as became a lemon issue I'm hoping they repair the issue problem soon. 

R142s did have problems. They were fixed rather quickly and became the best cars in today's fleet. The R179s are gonna go through a similar process in due time and these trains won't be considered a lemon anymore.

[Union Tpke]

4 hours ago, Rigojefte Galo said:

 

What's difference between R179 and R142 there both made from bombardier how come the R179 has problem and not R142 because R142 never had a problem is made in 2000 and R179 is made 2016 as became a lemon issue I'm hoping they repair the issue problem soon. 

You really just quoted the posts at the beginning of the thread from 2011?

[happy283]

42 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

You really just quoted the posts at the beginning of the thread from 2011?

Yeah he really just did. And it was so extensive that I bet nobody took the time to read through those endless quotes.

[Bill from Maspeth]

10 hours ago, happy283 said:

Doesnt really make sense when your trying to upgrade the entire signal system but you dont order cars that are installed with it.

No it doesn't, but that's what the specs were.  You yourself would have to ask MTA via Email why the cars were ordered without CBTC capability.

[Bay Ridge Express]

9 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Is it possible the may need another project to be compatible with the rest of the subway? (Not that it needs it really)

yes but not necessary since the   is an independent line

[happy283]

45 minutes ago, Bay Ridge Express said:

yes but not necessary since the   is an independent line

Well there are times when ENY cars are transferred to Canarsie Yard. Also it makes for more options since  and  can switch between lines at Broadway Jct, if the cars are compatible, it would come in handy for a GO.

[happy283]

48 minutes ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

No it doesn't, but that's what the specs were.  You yourself would have to ask MTA via Email why the cars were ordered without CBTC capability.

Honestly not worth the effort. The MTA usually doesnt make sense anyway.

[Around the Horn]

10 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Is it possible the may need another project to be compatible with the rest of the subway? (Not that it needs it really)

It's not something that's required per say (as long as you have enough cars equipped for it) but I wouldn't be surprised if they chose to update it at some point in the future.

[Bill from Maspeth]

13 hours ago, happy283 said:

The R32 should have been kept as a spare until the R179s were able to be proven reliable. There was no sense in rushing hundreds of cars into retirement just days after the R179s came back in January. Now they are not needed because of reduced service and the half cab issue doesnt help but they may be needed once covid is over if the R179s continue to be an issue.

You logic is correct, but MTA did not feel the same way.  The subways, LIRR and MN are political entities.  As much most fans like the R32's, they were much maligned by C riders because they're well over 50 years old and "why should we be riding in ancient cars".  The politicians get involved too.  So MTA said in a board meeting last year they would be retired by the end of the first quarter of 2020.  They were going to meet that goal, pandemic or not.....and they did.  They're not going to get involved with "what if's..."

[Bill from Maspeth]

1 hour ago, happy283 said:

Honestly not worth the effort. The MTA usually doesnt make sense anyway.

Exactly, just go with whatever they do.  It's a buracracy with many suits in different departments, who are simply trying to justify their jobs, so many times what they decide on doesn't make any sense.

It's not worth asking questions about why or why not they don't do a certain thing.   No suit is going on this site to tell you the "why".

Just deal with the present.

[Bill from Maspeth]

16 hours ago, happy283 said:

 

How about instead of starting with this needless bullshit about trying to guess who I am while not actually asking me who I am, you tell me what your issues with my content and conduct are so I can try and make some changes to how I post. I am open to constructive feedback for the purposes of coexisting will all other members on this forum.

I apologize to you for pissing you off.  My questioning is because I use the same name here and on SubChat. Obviously I don't expect everybody else to be like me, so I'll come right out and question you if you are chicago44 or chipper10 on SubChat or TSS Satchell on facebook.  I am just curious.

And thanks for sticking up for me on the Fleet Swap Discussion Thread about the difference between fact and opinion.

[happy283]

54 minutes ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

I apologize to you for pissing you off.  My questioning is because I use the same name here and on SubChat. Obviously I don't expect everybody else to be like me, so I'll come right out and question you if you are chicago44 or chipper10 on SubChat or TSS Satchell on facebook.  I am just curious.

And thanks for sticking up for me on the Fleet Swap Discussion Thread about the difference between fact and opinion.

I am not on any other forum website as of now but yes I would likely stay consistent with my username if I am. And no problem, that fact-opinion thing was quite ridiculous.

[RapidoNewLook]

16 hours ago, happy283 said:

The R32 should have been kept as a spare until the R179s were able to be proven reliable. There was no sense in rushing hundreds of cars into retirement just days after the R179s came back in January. Now they are not needed because of reduced service and the half cab issue doesnt help but they may be needed once covid is over if the R179s continue to be an issue.

Wasn't the  going to rope off the area by the cabs anyway?

[Bill from Maspeth]

8 minutes ago, RapidoNewLook said:

Wasn't the  going to rope off the area by the cabs anyway?

Yes, but when the c/r changes sides and he leaves the cab, there will not be 6' of social distancing from the cab to behind the rope.  Plus, what is to prevent some passenger to take down the rope and sit down anyway?  You know transit workers are being assaulted at a record rate and chances are if the offender has the balls to take down the rope, he also has the balls to punch the conductor in the mouth even if the conductor politely reminds the person he cannot sit there. 

Anyhow, they are able to make full service at this time on the J/L/M/Z because the L has less service in the rush.  What happens in a few months?  We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.  By then, you never know, maybe the R179's will be back?  Only time will tell.

[RapidoNewLook]

1 minute ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

Yes, but when the c/r changes sides and he leaves the cab, there will not be 6' of social distancing from the cab to behind the rope.  Plus, what is to prevent some passenger to take down the rope and sit down anyway?  You know transit workers are being assaulted at a record rate and chances are if the offender has the balls to take down the rope, he also has the balls to punch the conductor in the mouth even if the conductor politely reminds the person he cannot sit there. 

Anyhow, they are able to make full service at this time on the J/L/M/Z because the L has less service in the rush.  What happens in a few months?  We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.  By then, you never know, maybe the R179's will be back?  Only time will tell.

So why don't they put up those isinglass sheets like they have on the buses? People seem to respect them pretty well. 

[Bill from Maspeth]

23 minutes ago, RapidoNewLook said:

So why don't they put up those isinglass sheets like they have on the buses? People seem to respect them pretty well. 

That's up to transit and the union.

The union does not want R32's.  We've had enough transit worker deaths due to Covid. 

I guess you are salivating for R32's?

[RapidoNewLook]

Just now, Bill from Maspeth said:

That's up to transit and the union.

The union does not want R32's.  We've had enough transit worker deaths due to Covid. 

I guess you are salivating for R32's?

I will neither confirm nor deny that statement 😉

[trainfan22]

Some of the R179 sets are stored at Ave X yard where the trains normally lay up. 

 

Also there's R32s in CI inspection shop, not the overhaul shop but the shop where cars assigned to CI Yard get serviced. These are probably the R32s they use on the garbage train I assume.

[R32 3838]

well they have to figure out something because as more people take the subway, that leads to more crowding. is at fault because they're doing nothing to protect the workers. They can't keep running the the way its running. during the peak hours it was SRO. If an Emergency happens and the train is packed with people, they are gonna risk catching the virus regardless. This is why they need to run 90% service if there's enough crew.

 

I suggested they run these as 10 car trains on the and isolate 4 cars the front,back and 2 middle cars and use 6 cars out of 10.

 

I've taken the subway recently during the peak hours and it was SRO on lines like the lines and during the evening. every car on the had SRO.

 

nobody see that the more the trains are packed the higher the chance of catching the virus. when the virus was at its peak, they should have shut the system down for a week or two.

 

nobody wants a repeat of that, You have plenty of people going back to work plus out door dining will reopen and retail stores would allow people to come into stores again during Phase 2. Most people (Low Income people) are gonna use the system to get where they got to go.

 

Im NOT saying ridership will be going back to normal. But With the current service pattern, Some lines need normal service to make sure people can be spread out. ENY is the only yard that's short since the R179's make up half the line. If they were to put the R32's back in service, They would only need 3-5 sets at most for the time being.

 

 

[R32 3838]

5 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

Some of the R179 sets are stored at Ave X yard where the trains normally lay up. 

 

Also there's R32s in CI inspection shop, not the overhaul shop but the shop where cars assigned to CI Yard get serviced. These are probably the R32s they use on the garbage train I assume.

 

this is likely the garbage train, they always get inspected there.