R179 Discussion Thread

[E For Erica]

What the hell does a route bullet have to do with train efficiency?

idk spotting it easier I guess lol

[Around the Horn]

What the hell does a route bullet have to do with train efficiency?

You can tell a from a by seeing the blue circle instead of a orange circle when the train approaches instead of waiting to see a sometimes illegible red letter for every line with a NTT

[E For Erica]

You can tell a from a by seeing the blue circle instead of a orange circle when the train approaches instead of waiting to see a sometimes illegible red letter for every line with a NTT

Right! I remember one time I was getting off the at court sq and I heard a R160 stop so I was rushed in the train thinking it was the but it was actually the and the doors closed right in my face when I tred to get off. Then these school kids was laughing at me lol

[RookiePhenom]

A more realistic solution is to go the CTA route and have a double line end car display that has date and time static at the bottom line and flips through route and next stop info on the top line.An example:

to Court Street

Aug 18. 1:41 pm

Also have a multi color led that can show the bullet on the front and the side sign idea of yours is a good idea

 

Only except we have the next stop at the top and the time at the bottom. I would reckon you can switch between the displays.

 

To Court Street / Next Stop: Jay St./MetroTech

8/18/13 1:41 PM

 

We're not too concerned with the destination on those displays (since those are already on the sides). However, for your purpose, a double line display on the inside wouldn't be a bad idea. Less scrolling and flipping for you guys.

 

The color bullets would be a good idea, I suppose my question is can it support Brown, Gray, and Orange with a screen display large enough for the commuter to see from afar?

[Eric B]

My avatar simulates LED colors, so brown is basically a "burnt" amber, and there are several pale cyans that would make for gray.

[CenSin]

This is my idea of the R179 lol. I'm aware that it won't actually be designed like this but think of these as silly pointers that I feel it should look like. Like access to siri on the T/O control panel. I know no in hell is that happening unless the MTA gives apple some $$ on the side. Also more detailed time display showing the date and tempature as well as the time , destination & next stop. More detailed side LED destination signs to save some letter puching in the codes like how they came up more details on the side LED when the 2007 Orion VIIs came out. And last but not least , bring the orignail bullets back with a LED touchscreen route bullet that can accessed in the T/O A cabs. Unlike the route bullets on the R42 , R46 , R68 , ect they can tap the area once and it'll pull up a screen of routes they can set a bullet for. Plus they can do a quick double tap to make it say "Not in service" or "Special" or to just turn off the route bullet completely. This feature makes the train more attractive & it's eaiser seeing what train it is before it completely pulls into the station. Unlike the Red LED route display on all the new techs so far which are boring because the color is red for all the routes and it's hard to tell what train it is before it pulls in. but once again this a amateur design I do not expect this to happen just tell me what you think.

Methinks the train operator would be spending more time flirting with Siri than actually doing his job.

[ttcsubwayfan]

Methinks the train operator would be spending more time flirting with Siri than actually doing his job.

!!!!!!!!

[Tkain]

I hope Kawasaki gets it as well as lots of users here... Go Kawasaki!

 

(We all know it'll go to the )

Edited August 24, 2013 by Tkain

[Fan Railer]

I hope Kawasaki gets it as well as lots of users here... Go Kawasaki!

.... what?

[6 Lexington Ave]

I hope Kawasaki gets it as well as lots of users here... Go Kawasaki!

 

(We all know it'll go to the )

Bombardier has gotten it quite a while ago.

Edited August 24, 2013 by 6 Lexington Ave

[mtattrain]

I hope Kawasaki gets it as well as lots of users here... Go Kawasaki!

Huh?

[R40SlantFan]

I really hope that the R160s come with multi color LED front signs, i'm sick of just seeing a red circle. Makes it hard to tell which train is which.

[Far Rock Depot]

I really hope that the R160s come with multi color LED front signs, i'm sick of just seeing a red circle. Makes it hard to tell which train is which.

Dont count on it. Theres three main reasons why they made it always red. The most important being visibility. Not for the passenger, who can just simply read the letter/number, but for other train crews. Its more of a quicker response to see a red light and respond by reflex that there is a train in front of you than to figure out another color. This was how this was explained to me by engineers when the 142's were being designed. We as railfans may want the return of colored bullets, but the focus is on operations. Then there's cost. A multicolored LED costs more than a red one. And not too long ago, certain colors on LEDs werent possible. They are now, but at a slightly higher cost. Especially when you take the cost of one single LED, mutiply that by the number of LEDs in each end route sign, then multiplying that by the number of "A" cars ordered. Then its spare bulb factor. 

 

And in all honestly, its only difficult to tell what train it is if you cant read a single letter or number. Then theres the side signs that you can read.......

[Union Tpke]

I hope Kawasaki gets it as well as lots of users here... Go Kawasaki!

 

(We all know it'll go to the )

Bombardier is getting it not Kawasaki.

 

 

Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[CenSin]

Dont count on it. Theres three main reasons why they made it always red. The most important being visibility. Not for the passenger, who can just simply read the letter/number, but for other train crews. Its more of a quicker response to see a red light and respond by reflex that there is a train in front of you than to figure out another color. This was how this was explained to me by engineers when the 142's were being designed. We as railfans may want the return of colored bullets, but the focus is on operations. Then there's cost. A multicolored LED costs more than a red one. And not too long ago, certain colors on LEDs werent possible. They are now, but at a slightly higher cost. Especially when you take the cost of one single LED, mutiply that by the number of LEDs in each end route sign, then multiplying that by the number of "A" cars ordered. Then its spare bulb factor. 

 

And in all honestly, its only difficult to tell what train it is if you cant read a single letter or number. Then theres the side signs that you can read.......

The engineers, unfortunately, didn't take into account the difficulty of reading the bullet from a distance. When an R160 pulls in and I'm at the end of the platform, I can't see what train it is until it's two-thirds down the length of the platform. Suppose I need to make a quick decision depending on the train that's coming, I cannot do that until the train is pretty much in my face.

1. The trains need larger bullets, and/or
2. The bullets need to stop using the "outline" style; in other words, a solid circle instead of a hollow circle will improve readability a lot.

[R32 3838]

They should just use the R110B front with the R160 body, that would look hot

[ttcsubwayfan]

It's a train. It can't be "hot", sorry to say.

 

A more appropriate choice of words, given the subject matter, would be "aesthetically/visually pleasing".

[Eric B]

Dont count on it. Theres three main reasons why they made it always red. The most important being visibility. Not for the passenger, who can just simply read the letter/number, but for other train crews. Its more of a quicker response to see a red light and respond by reflex that there is a train in front of you than to figure out another color. This was how this was explained to me by engineers when the 142's were being designed. We as railfans may want the return of colored bullets, but the focus is on operations. Then there's cost. A multicolored LED costs more than a red one. And not too long ago, certain colors on LEDs werent possible. They are now, but at a slightly higher cost. Especially when you take the cost of one single LED, mutiply that by the number of LEDs in each end route sign, then multiplying that by the number of "A" cars ordered. Then its spare bulb factor. 

 

And in all honestly, its only difficult to tell what train it is if you cant read a single letter or number. Then theres the side signs that you can read.......

 

 

The engineers, unfortunately, didn't take into account the difficulty of reading the bullet from a distance. When an R160 pulls in and I'm at the end of the platform, I can't see what train it is until it's two-thirds down the length of the platform. Suppose I need to make a quick decision depending on the train that's coming, I cannot do that until the train is pretty much in my face.

1. The trains need larger bullets, and/or
2. The bullets need to stop using the "outline" style; in other words, a solid circle instead of a hollow circle will improve readability a lot.

 

I think what I've proposed in my avatar would be the most visible. The white would contrast the color and be more visible, so you don't have a red (or other single color) blur (and a solid circle would make this worse).

 

As a train crew, I don't need a red circle to tell me a train is ahead, since we go by the signals, and besides, the bullet would become familiar as representing a train. Plus, you still have the tail lights. (And older equipment which has no lights on top, in addition to layed up trains often not having the bullet on).

 

Plus, Path uses multicolor on the bulkhead now.

 

I'm not saying the engineers didn't give that reason, but it is really lame. Cost would be the more reasonable answer, but it is really not that much of a difference now. (Again, what I was told by someone I asked when the 143's were coming out, was that the supplier simply didn't have any other colors. But again, this was when RGB's were just coming out).

[Far Rock Depot]

PATH uses destinations instead of bullets. And yes, most colors werent available when the 142/143 fleets were coming out. Now, over ten years later, the technology is more available and the cost may have decreased, but you know the saying "if it aint broke...."    Maybe sometime soon the design specs for the end signs will change. 

[CenSin]

I think what I've proposed in my avatar would be the most visible. The white would contrast the color and be more visible, so you don't have a red (or other single color) blur (and a solid circle would make this worse).

I think they should render the bullets as it's shown on the maps. As for the color, it's fine if they use red (for the reasons you quoted), but a solid color (LED lights on) with the letter/number being black (LED lights off) eliminates all of the unnecessary detail. The eyes only need to discern the shape of the bullet (circle or diamond), and determine the shape of the interior. If you'd like me to demonstrate with an illustration, I'd be happy to provide one. At progressively smaller sizes, my version is always more readable.

[Eric B]

I think a lit number/letter is more visible than a black number on lit background. (And a white number with immediate black background, with the perimeter of the bullet in color (which is all you'd need to see).

[Dj Hammers]

Now, over ten years later, the technology is more available and the cost may have decreased, but you know the saying "if it aint broke...." Maybe sometime soon the design specs for the end signs will change.

It is broke... The signs are very difficult to read. Modern RBG LEDs array displays are available that would fill the same purpose.

[Guest Lance]

The 179 order is basically a continuation of the 160s and the 188s are for the most part, the converted 142As. Now I wouldn't be surprised if the 211 order switches over to multi-colored end signs. By the time that order commences, the cost of such technology should be much lower than it was in 1999-2000 or 2004-05 when the 142/143 and 160 orders were made respectively. Personally I wouldn't mind LCD monitors or something similar to mimic the old end signs on the legacy fleet.

[Far Rock Depot]

The 179 order is basically a continuation of the 160s and the 188s are for the most part, the converted 142As. Now I wouldn't be surprised if the 211 order switches over to multi-colored end signs. By the time that order commences, the cost of such technology should be much lower than it was in 1999-2000 or 2004-05 when the 142/143 and 160 orders were made respectively. Personally I wouldn't mind LCD monitors or something similar to mimic the old end signs on the legacy fleet.

Now THATS something that would be cool! 

[Brighton Express]

I think what I've proposed in my avatar would be the most visible. The white would contrast the color and be more visible, so you don't have a red (or other single color) blur (and a solid circle would make this worse).

 

It would be nice to see some color instead of that red on the electronic rollsign, but looking at the concept it seems that they are sticking right with the red.