Official MNRR/LIRR Short & Long Term Plans and Proposals-now & 2050

[Jamaica Express]

And don't forget Jamaica. Also an electric stop frequently served by diesel trains.

 

Well I was referring to stops outside the city zone, I should have made that more clear. But all trains, slow down in & out of Jamaica and it's a station with multiple tracks (which provide a variety of routing/overtake options), so a diesel accelerating out of that area isn't really going to cause operational issues as all trains (Both electric and diesel) are operating at restricted speed levels.

[LIRR 154]

MNRR wants some of Penn like you said Express, but also even with ESA the LIRR still wants to have full capacity at Penn and also the political leaders on the island want it too. With also the plans to add another platform at Jamaica for Brooklyn only it's going to be interesting how it all play out when ESA is done. I can also see Harold and parts of Sunnyside Yard being under the LIRR control. They are sick of Amtrak and probably will be trying to push them out soon.

[LIRR 154]

I always been a big fan of the P32's and 42's and probably would of done a better job then the D30's. Now I wonder did they actually do any testing as far as the coaches goes. The C3's are a totally different ball game then the shoreliners. Could it been a power problem or just the LIRR loyalty to EMD. Who knows?

[Jamaica Express]

MNRR wants some of Penn like you said Express, but also even with ESA the LIRR still wants to have full capacity at Penn and also the political leaders on the island want it too. With also the plans to add another platform at Jamaica for Brooklyn only it's going to be interesting how it all play out when ESA is done. I can also see Harold and parts of Sunnyside Yard being under the LIRR control. They are sick of Amtrak and probably will be trying to push them out soon.

 

 

That's the thing, politicians seem to not understand the operational complexity of the LIRR and the area's other commuter rail systems. Service Plans change perpetually as the project progresses. The last "opening day" operating plans I saw, had a dramatically changed operation from what we know today, specifically around Jamaica. That additional platform, as you said for Brooklyn only, is to support what is planned to be a general shuttle service between Jamaica and Atlantic Term. Trains from eastern terminals will have continuous operation to both NYP and GCT, connections at Jamaica will no longer be held. Sunnyside Station, which may or may not be replacing Hunters Point is where transfers will be facilitated between NYP and GCT bound customers. It was about a year and half ago, I saw this, so all of this could have dramatically changed since then, we'll just have to wait and see. However, what MNRR needs to understand is, LIRR isn't removing service from Penn Station, their simply increasing the amount of trains they operate, which will go to NYP. Of course, once the project is complete and service is instituted things will probably change gradually as simulations and operation analysis/travel pattern projections can only correctly predict but so much. As for Amtrak, lets see if they still even exist once this project is complete, thats a 50/50 chance.

[qjtransitmaster]

You look at the Job population , Population density , Population within a half mile which is the limit of most PT users , Connecting Transit like Subway , LRT , Bus etc , then you look at the commuting patterns and where people are going....and thats how you get the projects along with adding up any future development sites within the half mile radius. Theres about 90,000 people who commute from Union County to Staten Island or Brooklyn or vis versa , there's about 50,000 who commute from Brooklyn to the Bronx daily mostly to Hunts Point or parts of Westchester even. Theres an Estimated 150,000 who commute from Long Island to the Bronx or Westchester this market would be easy to tap into by running services from the LIRR up to New Rochelle or Portchester or having other connecting services. Theres an Estimated 400,000 who drive into Manhattan from Long Island , New Jersey and Westchester on there way to important Job Hubs like White Plains , Long Island city , Brooklyn , Stamford , Hackensack , Yonkers and The Bronx this group would greatly benefit from an expanded system and through running.... Reducing the transfers boosts ridership.... As for Lower Manhattan service is needed from Staten Island , Metro North , NJ and Brookyln...all these direct connections would take pressure off the strained PATH , SI ferry which is not a good daily transit option in terms of speed and weather related incidents , and the Subway , 4 , 5 , 2., 3....by 2040 all these lines will be overcapacity.... So a New Network is needed. Through Running would take most of the Suburban Ridership off...

 

Where did you get that info? much of this will actually strengthen and perfect most if not all my plans completely. I knew people were commuting from union to brooklyn and SI.

[Nexis4Jersey]

MNRR wants some of Penn like you said Express, but also even with ESA the LIRR still wants to have full capacity at Penn and also the political leaders on the island want it too. With also the plans to add another platform at Jamaica for Brooklyn only it's going to be interesting how it all play out when ESA is done. I can also see Harold and parts of Sunnyside Yard being under the LIRR control. They are sick of Amtrak and probably will be trying to push them out soon.

 

 

Its stupid for the LIRR to still want Penn after ESA completion most commuters are on the East side near GCT and not Penn so you'd think they would understand that but the political leaders of this region don't commute nor do they seem to work for the best interests...

 

Where did you get that info? much of this will actually strengthen and perfect most if not all my plans completely. I knew people were commuting from union to brooklyn and SI.

 

 

I work with my friend whos an Urban/Transport planner...he has all the data and we share ideas....

[Jamaica Express]

Its stupid for the LIRR to still want Penn after ESA completion most commuters are on the East side near GCT and not Penn so you'd think they would understand that but the political leaders of this region don't commute nor do they seem to work for the best interests...

 

 

 

I work with my friend whos an Urban/Transport planner...he has all the data and we share ideas....

 

 

Well I think they're playing it "safe" so they can analyze travel patterns to both terminals for the first year or so. They have to stay in Penn, as 24TPH soley to GCT isn't adequate to keep up with Peak Hour Demand. As for operating the same amount of trains they operate into Penn Station now, post ESA during the Peak, is probably something that won't last long, unless ridership doubles between now and then and as I mentioned before, things may significantly change between now and then. One key point I forgot to mention before about the operating plan I reviewed, is not all electric lines will have direct service into GCT, some will exclusively use Penn, so perhaps they're reserving those slots for trains that end in Brooklyn or Jamaica today. We'll have to wait and see (I'm in no rush for 2019 to get here lol)

[qjtransitmaster]

Its stupid for the LIRR to still want Penn after ESA completion most commuters are on the East side near GCT and not Penn so you'd think they would understand that but the political leaders of this region don't commute nor do they seem to work for the best interests...

 

 

 

I work with my friend whos an Urban/Transport planner...he has all the data and we share ideas....

 

planner for who? and what type?

[Vistausss]

@Nexis: And what about the people that don't use LIRR every day? I mean, let's say person A has a brother who lives near Penn and person A takes the train every weekend to his brother. With all trains to GCT he must face the same things a GCT-bound customer is facing today. Or maybe person A needs to use Amtrak. Then what? Send him to GCT and then with subway back to Penn (or worse: via Atlantic Term)? You must look beyond the point of daily customers; there are also a lot of customers that don't use it daily but frequently enough to warrant service.

[Nexis4Jersey]

@Nexis: And what about the people that don't use LIRR every day? I mean, let's say person A has a brother who lives near Penn and person A takes the train every weekend to his brother. With all trains to GCT he must face the same things a GCT-bound customer is facing today. Or maybe person A needs to use Amtrak. Then what? Send him to GCT and then with subway back to Penn (or worse: via Atlantic Term)? You must look beyond the point of daily customers; there are also a lot of customers that don't use it daily but frequently enough to warrant service.

 

 

It should be split up , 70% to GCT and 30% to Penn....

[Vistausss]

I would then vote for 50/50. 50% to GCT, 50% to Penn...

[LIRR 154]

 

 

Its stupid for the LIRR to still want Penn after ESA completion most commuters are on the East side near GCT and not Penn so you'd think they would understand that but the political leaders of this region don't commute nor do they seem to work for the best interests...

 

 

 

I work with my friend whos an Urban/Transport planner...he has all the data and we share ideas....

 

Nope its not stupid ,not all of the LIRR traffic comes through on peak hours where people go to work. The weekends are very busy and MSG is a HUGE draw when there is a game ,concert or any other function. Plus you have 42nd street and Broadway. Believe me on the weekend the trains are SOA at times as well. Not even adding the party people.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Power Sources

 

City-Long Island Ideas

Regional Connector - 750V DC Top Contact

Rockaway Beach Branch - 750V DC Top Contact

Far Rockaway Branch - 750V DC Top Contact

Long Beach Branch - 750V DC Top Contact

Long Island Connection - 750V DC Top Contact

Atlantic Branch - 750V DC Top Contact

East Side Access - 750V DC Top Contact

Long Island Downtown Access - 750V DC Top Contact

Metro North Downtown Access - 25kV AC , 60Hz Catenary

New Jersey Downtown Access - 25kV AC , 60Hz Catenary

West Side Side line - 750V DC Bottom Contact

Hell Gate line - 9 Stations - 14.6 Mi - Projected Ridership : 75,000

Hell Gate Connector - 750V DC Bottom Contact / 25kV AC , 60Hz Catenary

Main Trunk - 750V DC Top Contact

Port Washington Branch - 750V DC Top Contact

St. Albans Branch - 750V DC Top Contact

West Hempstead Branch - 750V DC Top Contact

Hempstead Branch - 750V DC Top Contact

Oyster Bay Branch - 750V DC Top Contact

Oyster Bay Branch Extension - 750V DC Top Contact

Central Branch - 750V DC Top Contact

Port Jefferson Branch - DMU

Greenport Branch - DMU

Montuak Branch - DMU

 

Northern Suburbs

New Haven line - 750V DC Bottom Contact / 25kV AC , 60Hz Catenary

New Canaan Branch - 25kV AC , 60Hz Catenary

Danbury Branch - 25kV AC , 60Hz Catenary

Waterbury Branch - DMU

Harlem line - 750V DC Bottom Contact

Hudson line - 750V DC Bottom Contact

I-287 Railway - 25kV AC , 60Hz Catenary

West Shore line - 750V DC Bottom Contact

Pascack Valley line - DMU

Main line - DMU

Bergen line - DMU

Northwest Rail link - DMU

Pompton Branch - DMU

 

Western & Southern Suburbs

Morristown line - 25kV AC , 60Hz Catenary

Gladstone Branch - 25kV AC , 60Hz Catenary

Montclair - Boonton line - 25kV AC , 60Hz Catenary

Boonton Branch - 25kV AC , 60Hz Catenary

Lackawanna line - 25kV AC , 60Hz Catenary

Raritan Valley line - DMU

Philpsburg Extension - DMU

Philpsburg Connection - - 25kV AC , 60Hz Catenary

Northeast Corridor - 25kV AC , 60Hz Catenary

North Jersey Coast line - 25kV AC , 60Hz Catenary

 

Nope its not stupid ,not all of the LIRR traffic comes through on peak hours where people go to work. The weekends are very busy and MSG is a HUGE draw when there is a game ,concert or any other function. Plus you have 42nd street and Broadway. Believe me on the weekend the trains are SOA at times as well. Not even adding the party people.

 

 

Well then flip it make it 50/50 on weekends...

[Jamaica Express]

It should be split up , 70% to GCT and 30% to Penn....

 

 

Are you serious? that would just result in inadequate service to both terminals. Oh how I had outlandish ideas of the sort when I first started 2 years ago, you learn a lot quickly, there is so much more that goes into it that the public doesn't know. However if you have a friend who's a transport planner that shares info and data with you (which is insane btw, because I have to ask permission to even take the simplest documents out the building) then that should put you ahead of the game, I WISH I could have known someone in Svc/Ops Planning as an undergrad. But 70% to GCT, 30% to Penn, may sound logical, is a nightmare from a planning point of view as well as an economical one. Please know GCT isn't meant to REPLACE Penn, its meant to add a significant amount of capacity to the railroad.

[qjtransitmaster]

Are you serious? that would just result in inadequate service to both terminals. Oh how I had outlandish ideas of the sort when I first started 2 years ago, you learn a lot quickly, there is so much more that goes into it that the public doesn't know. However if you have a friend who's a transport planner that shares info and data with you (which is insane btw, because I have to ask permission to even take the simplest documents out the building) then that should put you ahead of the game, I WISH I could have known someone in Svc/Ops Planning as an undergrad. But 70% to GCT, 30% to Penn, may sound logical, is a nightmare from a planning point of view as well as an economical one. Please know GCT isn't meant to REPLACE Penn, its meant to add a significant amount of capacity to the railroad.

 

I think he already conceded to 50/50 in his last post. what do you do jamacia?

[Vistausss]

I think he already conceded to 50/50 in his last post. what do you do jamacia?

 

 

No, he conceded to 50/50 on weekends only...

[Jamaica Express]

I think he already conceded to 50/50 in his last post. what do you do jamacia?

 

 

My title is Ridership Analyst for one of our tri-state area's rail systems, being that I interned for the agency before (2 years in college), the managers let me work with them a lot on future service and operations plans as well. I would say what company it is, but as said before, many people in management frown upon sites like this and being that there is like no one my age in the mgmt sector of the company at the moment it would be a dead give away as to who I am, if any were to see this. Not that me being on here is against the rules or anything, but i'm semi-paranoid so I play it safe lol.

[qjtransitmaster]

My title is Ridership Analyst for one of our tri-state area's rail systems, being that I interned for the agency before (2 years in college), the managers let me work with them a lot on future service and operations plans as well. I would say what company it is, but as said before, many people in management frown upon sites like this and being that there is like no one my age in the mgmt sector of the company at the moment it would be a dead give away as to who I am, if any were to see this. Not that me being on here is against the rules or anything, but i'm semi-paranoid so I play it safe lol.

 

PM me it's NJtransit isn't it. I travel all over so I am a bit unique. To avoid conflict we can discuss this elsewhere. I do infact have weinstein's card But I will only show the pic to a select few. I was called a spy here before by a certain B/O

[B35 via Church]

Don't know if it was mentioned in here or not, but it looks like MNRR is building a new station b/w Milford & New Haven (Union)...

 

...and MNRR "Fairfield Metro"?? what in the world....

 

 

Yeah, I really gotta start fanning out to CT more.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Don't know if it was mentioned in here or not, but it looks like MNRR is building a new station b/w Milford & New Haven (Union)...

 

...and MNRR "Fairfield Metro"?? what in the world....

 

 

Yeah, I really gotta start fanning out to CT more.

The Station in question underway in West Haven , theres also a station in Orange , East Bridgeport , East Stamford , Mill River , East Haven and North Haven that are under Construction or in planning.

[Far Rock Depot]

re: LIRR,

Its no surprise that we may see some exclusives to/from GCT. If you look at the schedules, Some Branches run mostly out of one particular terminal (Far Rock and Long Bech comes to mind. With the exception of some Peak trains to/from Penn, its mostly out of Flatbush).

Now as far as LIRR/MNR service to penn, i wont be surprised if LIRR does not reduce Penn Sta service for atleast the first year or two to evaluate service demand. MNR wont IMHO start Penn service from jump. IF and only if ridership shows a shift to GCT, dont expect slots into Penn to open up for MNR. The most I see is very limited peak service from them. 

[qjtransitmaster]

re: LIRR,

Its no surprise that we may see some exclusives to/from GCT. If you look at the schedules, Some Branches run mostly out of one particular terminal (Far Rock and Long Bech comes to mind. With the exception of some Peak trains to/from Penn, its mostly out of Flatbush).

Now as far as LIRR/MNR service to penn, i wont be surprised if LIRR does not reduce Penn Sta service for atleast the first year or two to evaluate service demand. MNR wont IMHO start Penn service from jump. IF and only if ridership shows a shift to GCT, dont expect slots into Penn to open up for MNR. The most I see is very limited peak service from them. 

Interesting I don't see why they rush to slow down the new haven line with unnecessary new stations. 

[Vistausss]

Why do you think those new stations will be unnecessary? (just curious)

[qjtransitmaster]

Why do you think those new stations will be unnecessary? (just curious)

too close to each other and would add too much time to the NH line.

[Vistausss]

too close to each other and would add too much time to the NH line.

 

Okay, too close I get but why too much time? I'm sure the express will bypass 'em so you can always go for the express.