Citaro Posted January 20, 2011 Share #1 Posted January 20, 2011 Many public transit and rail companies were privatized or public transit tasks were given partly to private companies around the globe in the past, called public–private partnership (PPP). Do you think privatizing is a good way to make transit more efficient, increase the service quality or do you think that it will just increase the profit? Should the MTA be privatized? Do you know good working private transit operators in the US or around the globe and what is your experience or what you have read or seen? Here are some examples of private transit companies: Wiki: Veolia Transport (formerly Connex) is the international transport services division of the French-based multinational company Veolia Environnement. Veolia Transport trades under the brand names of Veolia Transportation (in North America and Israel), Veolia Transport, Veolia Verkehr in Germany, with the former name Connex preserved in Lebanon and Jersey.Veolia has diverse road and rail operations across the globe, employing 72,000 workers worldwide and serving completely or partly about 40 metropolitan areas with more than 1,000,000 inhabitants, including: Asia : Mumbai, Seoul, Nanjing, Huainan, Hong Kong, Europe : Paris, Marseille, Lyons, Barcelona, Madrid, Bilbao, Belgrade, Berlin, Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Copenhagen, The Hague/Haaglanden, Helsinki, Prague, Warsaw, Dublin, Tyne & Wear, North America : Atlanta, Austin, Baltimore, Boston, Denver, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Miami, New Orleans, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Raleigh, Sacramento, San Diego and Toronto (York) Region, South America : Bogota and Santiago, Oceania : Sydney, Brisbane, Perth and Auckland. In 2007, the group posted revenues of €5.6 billion. Veolia arrived in the United States in 2001. Veolia now employs over 16,000 employees with 6,500 vehicles and a revenue of over $1 billion. in 2005 in North America. Its executive team includes Mark Joseph (CEO of VTNA). It is headquartered in Oak Brook, Illinois. Wiki: Connexxion is the largest private transport bus company in the Netherlands. In 2007, Transdev bought a 66% stake in Connexxion, with an option to purchase the whole within 5 years. This step made Transdev the 4th biggest operator in Europe. Connexxion Bus at Beverwijk Connexxion Tram in Utrecht Wiki: Arriva plc is a multinational public transport company owned by Deutsche Bahn and headquartered in Sunderland, United Kingdom. It has bus and/or rail operations in the Czech Republic, Denmark, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Malta, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden and the United Kingdom.It is the third largest of the 'big five' bus operators in the UK, after First Group and Stagecoach, and ahead of Go-Ahead and National Express. Arriva train It would be nice to have a friendly discussion here about an important topic of the future. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted January 20, 2011 Share #2 Posted January 20, 2011 As a hardcore Socialist Citario, I am curious about your views on mass transit being run by private companies? So i guess you question is should mass transit (as we call it here in America, so Citario you really need to visit the US before you make your pro-socialist ideas, it does not work everywhere in the world)be private run? Not to be meant to be rude but being honest to Citario. In New York City USA the the 'main public transporter' in the NY area is the aftermath in which the city's subway and bus lines was inded 'privately' owned earlier in the 20th Century. Not to mention the national inter-city bus line "Greyhound' and the National Railroad "Amtrak" are also private operated. Personally on a case-case basis, I think some towns/cities, having private companies run the operations works. I even think some of the NYC area bus routes operated by the should be again be 'private' mainly the outerborough-Manhattan so called 'express routes." Just my takes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citaro Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share #3 Posted January 20, 2011 So and now let us replace these comments with content from the topic!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted January 20, 2011 Share #4 Posted January 20, 2011 1. This is not the right topic to discuss my political views 2. I'm not a "hardcore" socialist, i'm social democrat, i support private public services as long as they are not basic needs like healthcare. 3. Stop sending me mails where you tell me that i don't know what is going on in the US! It is not necessary to visit the US before i talk about my political views, like it isn't necessary for you to visit the White House before you talk about politics. 4. I've noticed that you have problems to differ between personal attacks and substantive discussions. It's not a personal attack. Just making a point that you make all of your comments about the US (some of them are very accurate and correct)and never visiting here. I was suggeting it for you to become 'smarter' on American politics. Yes you have the right to your views but I have right to disagree at times as well. My point is that If I don't experience it, I personally don't make any judgements or discussions on things. Everyone is different. OK if you were offened I am sorry. Just my takes. With that said let move to the topic of private transport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citaro Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share #5 Posted January 20, 2011 It's not a personal attack. Just making a point that you make all of your comments about the US (some of them are very accurate and correct)and never visiting here. I was suggeting it for you to become 'smarter' on American politics. Yes you have the right to your views but I have right to disagree at times as well. My point is that If I don't experience it, I personally don't make any judgements or discussions on things. Everyone is different. OK if you were offened I am sorry. Just my takes. With that said let move to the topic of private transport. No problem for me, but i always tell my political view of point and it is beside my study in economics, all the parties and riding with trains and buses my hobby. I will never end to discuss with people to reach a better world for all, everytime, everywhere. And that distribution of wealth is really motivating me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metsfan Posted January 20, 2011 Share #6 Posted January 20, 2011 RiverLINE & HBLR are turnkey contracted operations. They work really well. Rutgers bus, not sure, but that also seems to be doing a good job. There is also the RIOC red bus. I think what would work best is a depot/garage going private & in turn the lines it serves being privately operated. Have a removeable sticker so when/if busses are transferred or new brought in/old ones retired you can swap out the sticker. - A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova RTS 9147 Posted January 20, 2011 Share #7 Posted January 20, 2011 I can assure you that no sane private company would take the , and as a stand-alone company, the agency would collapse like a house of cards in a 8.0 quake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTARegional Bus Posted January 20, 2011 Share #8 Posted January 20, 2011 Privatization is a good I idea,it won't be properly funded however ,if you look at the 7 private company the ran before the creation of MTA Bus. Liberty Lines Express Queens Surface Corporation Command Bus Company Jamaica Buses Triboro Coach Corporation New York Bus Service Green Bus Lines The bus fleet was old and in very bad shape but some like Jamaica bus and New York Bus Service did manege to keep there GMC RTS and GM New look in good working condition,but it wasn't funded that much by the DOT in the final years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted January 20, 2011 Share #9 Posted January 20, 2011 Shortline Bus cut it out with the name calling. You know better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted January 20, 2011 Share #10 Posted January 20, 2011 Privatization does not work for American workers. The IRT and BMT were profitable until the Depression because their workers were forced to work insanely long hours with little rest. 16 hour days were common. 12 hours a day x 6 or even 7 days a week were also common. Pay was minimal. To pay a fair wage and still make profit the fare must be higher than one can afford. Privatization of vital services does not work (including education, which only works for the rich). You don't need competition just fairness. However that which is not vital should be privatized. There you need competition amongst private competitors, and that even includes the competition that comes from the alternative of just not using a particular product or service if it's too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted January 20, 2011 Share #11 Posted January 20, 2011 It all depends on several different variables. Some outfits run much better in pivate hands while others dont. Amtrak, and Greyhound are great examples of privatization at work. The ex-NYC private lines are great examples of government having the ability to run something better. The MTA should never be privatized, and that includes LIB. Edit: BMT's Bus service was actually among the best in the city. They operated the majority of the Brooklyn routes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted January 21, 2011 Share #12 Posted January 21, 2011 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousNYLover Posted January 21, 2011 Share #13 Posted January 21, 2011 Don't forget Atlantic Express which handles X23/X24 and Transport Azhuma which handles Rte. 144 (SI-Jersey City), TAZ-10 Long Branch Beach, and X21 replacing AE-7 (Atlantic Express AE7). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOB2RTO Posted January 21, 2011 Share #14 Posted January 21, 2011 Here in Westchester County, the Bee-Line buses, are privately operated. The county owns the buses, but almost all the buses are operated by Liberty Lines. Truthfully, there is no such thing as Bee-Line drivers or mechanics. They don't work for Bee-Line, they work for Liberty Lines....... Remember MTA suppose to be a private company, making a profit. They just bathe in public funds. That is why Carl Paladino was talking about making it a state agency. Truth is, it isn't a state or public agency, it is a private, but heavily publicly funded agency. It's crazy, cause a public official (the Governor) appoints the head of this so called private agency, also they elect the Inspector General of the MTA............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousNYLover Posted January 21, 2011 Share #15 Posted January 21, 2011 In Japan, we have lots of transit companies Railways The Japan Railways Group consists of the seven companies that were formed after the privatization of the Japanese National Railways (日本国有鉄道?). Hokkaido Railway Company (JR Hokkaidō) (北海道旅客鉄道 (JR北海道)?) East Japan Railway Company (JR East) (東日本旅客鉄道 (JR東日本) Central Japan Railway Company (JR Central) (東海旅客鉄道 (JR東海) West Japan Railway Company (JR West) (西日本旅客鉄道 (JR西日本) Shikoku Railway Company (JR Shikoku) (四国旅客鉄道 (JR四国) Kyushu Railway Company (JR Kyūshū) (九州旅客鉄道 (JR九州) Japan Freight Railway Company (JR Freight) (日本貨物鉄道 (JR貨物) List of train/subway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_railway_companies_in_Japan List of Buses http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bus_operating_companies_in_Japan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKorean Posted January 21, 2011 Share #16 Posted January 21, 2011 Partial privatizing is good, but the government still needs to be involved to keep the fare down, give students free rides, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted March 14, 2011 Share #17 Posted March 14, 2011 A very good example's NYC public school bus industry its privatized and controlled by the city Dept. of ED / OPT division, if you read the the NY daily news in the past you will see why its not a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaveragejoe Posted March 16, 2011 Share #18 Posted March 16, 2011 Many public transit and rail companies were privatized or public transit tasks were given partly to private companies around the globe in the past, called public–private partnership (PPP). Do you think privatizing is a good way to make transit more efficient, increase the service quality or do you think that it will just increase the profit? Should the MTA be privatized? Do you know good working private transit operators in the US or around the globe and what is your experience or what you have read or seen? Here are some examples of private transit companies: Wiki: Wiki: Connexxion Bus at Beverwijk Connexxion Tram in Utrecht Wiki: Arriva train It would be nice to have a friendly discussion here about an important topic of the future. Thanks! You do know that in York Region (North of Toronto) the only part of the transit system that is private is the operations, YRT owns all the buses and provides all the funding they only contract out operations. also Transdev and Veolia have merged last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKorean Posted March 17, 2011 Share #19 Posted March 17, 2011 I think PATH could be privatized. Its small enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arriva Posted April 20, 2011 Share #20 Posted April 20, 2011 Size does not really matter. I don't want to sound like a "hardcore socialist" to you, but privatizing the whole public transit system is not the right way in my opinion. Take a look at our German railway system which is undergoing privatization currently: nearly all of the trains are heavily delayed, we just had a big crisis due to technical failures in winter time because of the "DB" not wanting to spend a whole lot of money for proper inspections and repairs. The Berlin suburban railroad system was a mess for the last 2 or 3 years due to, again, technical failures caused by the will to save money. Germany had a really large railroad system 40 years ago, but due to abandonment of many branch lines, it shrunk dramatically (the system is still large, alltough). And please, do not remind me of German fares. And if was private, I think that Budget Crisis would not only have resulted in cutting down and services, but also in cutting down several services, probably , maybe also (SIR) and definitively in abandoning some stations and branches like to Lenox Terminal or Broad Channel Station, maybe even services, and, for sure, the subway would no longer operate 24/7. And in my time living in the US, I've experienced some very reliable mass transit systems. But I think public transit companies should not have a monopoly in what they are doing. A good solution to this could be the European system. Over here, every regional railway line is put out to tender by the state, so many private companies also offer their services. This puts DB, the owner of the German railway system under pressure to make their services better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted April 20, 2011 Share #21 Posted April 20, 2011 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAzumah Posted April 20, 2011 Share #22 Posted April 20, 2011 NYS government is the second most screwed up behind IL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted April 20, 2011 Share #23 Posted April 20, 2011 the IRT and BMT existed fine privatly for almost 40 years and was only held back by city regulations. For example, the IRT and BMT were required to keep the fare at a nickle and could never raise it. They were held in the grip by John hylan, mayor of the city from 1918-1925, who held one heck of a grudge against the company and would do anything to see it ruined. he had been an engineer in the late 1890s for one of the predisor comapines of the BMT and had ben fired for nealry runing over a supervisor. When it was private, the BMT was so important in the transit industry, it was able to secure the stock ticker symbol "B", and only the most imporant comapines got one letter symbols. most of the system was constructed during the private operation era and most of the closed segments came down becuase of the public takeover. The system budget is prone to raiding by the government to pay for other things, that's why the service cuts happened, the state took over 100 million dollars out of the MTA. If albany would keep it's grimy little paws out of the MTA's pockets, we wouldn't have a problem. Something you and a few other posters don't realize, is that the state government of New York is the most screwed up body politic ever to hold power. They can't do anything right. They bicker and squable like there's no tommorow. Two years ago, the government was just about shut down for a monh during a fight over who should be in charge in the state senate. This isn't normal partisan poltics, this is a down right free-for-all. So ur saying the MTA subways would be better off privatized??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted April 21, 2011 Share #24 Posted April 21, 2011 Amtrak, and Greyhound are great examples of privatization at work. Amtrak's efficiency beats most transit agencies. That's what operating a rail system on a relatively minimal government subsidy and politicians trying to shut you down every few years will do. Greyhound isn't very expensive, even if you look at regular fares (not Mega/Bolt), and yet it seems to survive just fine without any outside money. $8 to PHL sounds like a big money-loser, but it's there for anyone to take 14 days in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted April 21, 2011 Share #25 Posted April 21, 2011 Amtrak's efficiency beats most transit agencies. That's what operating a rail system on a relatively minimal government subsidy and politicians trying to shut you down every few years will do. Greyhound isn't very expensive, even if you look at regular fares (not Mega/Bolt), and yet it seems to survive just fine without any outside money. $8 to PHL sounds like a big money-loser, but it's there for anyone to take 14 days in advance. amtrak is efficient??? and reliable??? does it do better as private?? Will privatizing mta subways and railroads work??? why or why not?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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