M-9 Discussion

[R42N]

Curious: Will the M9’s (on the MNRR) have the 8 car max like the M7’s have? There are certain Harlem Line trains (like the 5:35 Expre$$ with the first stop of $car$dale) that a 12 car M3a, and plenty of other 10 car peak M3a trains. 

 

What is the plan for those trains that require more than 8 cars?

[jamesman8]

Curious: Will the M9’s (on the MNRR) have the 8 car max like the M7’s have? There are certain Harlem Line trains (like the 5:35 Expre$$ with the first stop of $car$dale) that a 12 car M3a, and plenty of other 10 car peak M3a trains. 

 

What is the plan for those trains that require more than 8 cars?

The M7's operate 10 car on the LIRR, I dont know what you mean. The M7A's could be a different story, but as far as I'm aware there is no limit to how many cars they can operate in EMU, but as of now the M9's may be exclusive to the LIRR as there is no word of the M9A going into existence.

Edited August 30, 2017 by jamesman8

[trainfan22]

The M7's operate 10 car on the LIRR, I dont know what you mean. The M7A's could be a different story, but as far as I'm aware there is no limit to how many cars they can operate in EMU, but as of now the M9's may be exclusive to the LIRR as there is no word of the M9A going into existence.

the substations on the Harlem line can't support 10 car M7As trainsets, the runs with 10-12 cars must always use M3s. Metro North will get M9s, keep in mind the Metro North M7s didn't run in service until two years after the first lirr set did.

[Around the Horn]

The M7's operate 10 car on the LIRR, I dont know what you mean. The M7A's could be a different story, but as far as I'm aware there is no limit to how many cars they can operate in EMU, but as of now the M9's may be exclusive to the LIRR as there is no word of the M9A going into existence.

 

From what I have read previously in various MTA board materials, there won't be a M9 LIRR/ M9A MNR split like previously. The M9A denotes federally funded cars with the rest all being M9s. So both will have a mix of M9/M9As.

[R42N]

the substations on the Harlem line can't support 10 car M7As trainsets, the runs with 10-12 cars must always use M3s. Metro North will get M9s, keep in mind the Metro North M7s didn't run in service until two years after the first lirr set did.

 

 

Exactly, I ride the Metro North every day, and I’ve never seen any M7a with 10 or more cars (I have seen M8’s with 10 cars). 

 

Because of this, all of those peak Harlem Line trains from 5pm to 6pm that require more than 8 cars are always M3a. I read it was a power issue with the M7a. 

[jamesman8]

the substations on the Harlem line can't support 10 car M7As trainsets, the runs with 10-12 cars must always use M3s. Metro North will get M9s, keep in mind the Metro North M7s didn't run in service until two years after the first lirr set did.

The M7A was planned however at the same time and the railroad knew and had announced MNR would get the M7A at that time, there has been no announcement or plan of an M9A at this point, and Mistubishi (who is making the traction motors) did not publish M9A in their document, only M9. We also forget the Thrid Rail Type lines on MNRR have less older equipment to worry about unlike the LIRR, which still has a substantial fleet of M3's.

Edited August 31, 2017 by jamesman8

[R42N]

The M7A was planned however at the same time and the railroad knew and had announced MNR would get the M7A at that time, there has been no announcement or plan of an M9A at this point, and Mistubishi (who is making the traction motors) did not publish M9A in their document, only M9. We also forget the Thrid Rail Type lines on MNRR have less older equipment to worry about unlike the LIRR, which still has a substantial fleet of M3's.

 

 

True. The M3a’s are really only run on weekdays, never on weekends unless it’s super necessary. Additionally, the relatively good condition of their interiors and additional seating makes them a favorite among MNRR commuters. 

Edited August 31, 2017 by R42N

[Fan Railer]

From what I have read previously in various MTA board materials, there won't be a M9 LIRR/ M9A MNR split like previously. The M9A denotes federally funded cars with the rest all being M9s. So both will have a mix of M9/M9As.

Only the LIRR will have M9As.

[R42N]

Only the LIRR will have M9As.

Ohh, I guess I shouldn't have trusted Wikipedia. So what will replace the M3A on MNRR?

Edited August 31, 2017 by R42N

[jamesman8]

Only the LIRR will have M9As.

In other words, the M9 and the M9A's are the same exact rolling stock, but the ones with the A's at the end are federally funded, according to an inside source MNRR will not recieve any type M9's at all.

[R42N]

In other words, the M9 and the M9A's are the same exact rolling stock, but the ones with the A's at the end are federally funded, according to an inside source MNRR will not recieve any type M9's at all.

Ok, so, there's no timetable to replace the M3's on MNRR? They refurbrished them well, but they are old cars. Maybe the next generation (M10?)

[jamesman8]

Ok, so, there's no timetable to replace the M3's on MNRR? They refurbrished them well, but they are old cars. Maybe the next generation (M10?)

You have to remember, MNRR has a more amount of cars then the LIRR(including diesels), but with less riders. I don't think they're having a problem.

The LIRR had almost 20 million more riders in 2016 than MNRR.

MNRR has 885 EMUs, while LIRR has in the range of 870 or so(833 M7s') 

Edited September 1, 2017 by jamesman8

[R42N]

You have to remember, MNRR has a more amount of cars then the LIRR(including diesels), but with less riders. I don't think they're having a problem.

The LIRR had almost 20 million more riders in 2016 than MNRR.

MNRR has 885 EMUs, while LIRR has in the range of 870 or so(833 M7s') 

 

 

That’s fine, I get that the LIRR needs new cars with more urgency.

 

I, also, love the M3a’s on the MNRR, they have more seats and swing and sway considerably less. 

 

So, to confirm, as far as one can tell, there will be no M9’s heading to the MNRR?

[paulrivera]

That’s fine, I get that the LIRR needs new cars with more urgency.

 

I, also, love the M3a’s on the MNRR, they have more seats and swing and sway considerably less. 

 

So, to confirm, as far as one can tell, there will be no M9’s heading to the MNRR?

The Metro-North M9's have not been officially ordered yet (but should be shortly, per what RailRunRob posted in July), as all of Metro-North's M9 cars (about 200 cars was the plan) are technically option orders.

 

The only firm EMU order that MN currently has is a 60 car M8 order (with a 34 car option), also from Kawasaki. Therefore, if my math is correct, Kawasaki would deliver in the following order:

 

End of this year: M9 LIRR pilot cars delivered

First half 2018: LIRR M9 testing

Second half 2018: After test cars enter service, remaining LIRR M9 base order delivered

First half 2019: MNR M8 cars delivered

Second half 2019 onwards: M9 option orders delivered

 

Based on RailRunRob's post, the plan was for LIRR to get the first option order, MNRR to get the second option order, and LIRR gets the third option order. If that plan sticks, Metro-North wouldn't be getting their M9's until about 2020.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The Metro-North M9's have not been officially ordered yet (but should be shortly, per what RailRunRob posted in July), as all of Metro-North's M9 cars (about 200 cars was the plan) are technically option orders.

 

The only firm EMU order that MN currently has is a 60 car M8 order (with a 34 car option), also from Kawasaki. Therefore, if my math is correct, Kawasaki would deliver in the following order:

 

End of this year: M9 LIRR pilot cars delivered

First half 2018: LIRR M9 testing

Second half 2018: After test cars enter service, remaining LIRR M9 base order delivered

First half 2019: MNR M8 cars delivered

Second half 2019 onwards: M9 option orders delivered

 

Based on RailRunRob's post, the plan was for LIRR to get the first option order, MNRR to get the second option order, and LIRR gets the third option order. If that plan sticks, Metro-North wouldn't be getting their M9's until about 2020.

Better start ordering them soon. I avoided MNRR most of the summer. Cars have crap AC and those disgusting seats need to be replaced. You can see the dirt in the faux leather. The newer seats are more comfortable and look better.

[jamesman8]

The Metro-North M9's have not been officially ordered yet (but should be shortly, per what RailRunRob posted in July), as all of Metro-North's M9 cars (about 200 cars was the plan) are technically option orders.

 

The only firm EMU order that MN currently has is a 60 car M8 order (with a 34 car option), also from Kawasaki. Therefore, if my math is correct, Kawasaki would deliver in the following order:

 

End of this year: M9 LIRR pilot cars delivered

First half 2018: LIRR M9 testing

Second half 2018: After test cars enter service, remaining LIRR M9 base order delivered

First half 2019: MNR M8 cars delivered

Second half 2019 onwards: M9 option orders delivered

 

Based on RailRunRob's post, the plan was for LIRR to get the first option order, MNRR to get the second option order, and LIRR gets the third option order. If that plan sticks, Metro-North wouldn't be getting their M9's until about 2020.

The M9 has a base order of 92 cars, that isnt an option. The option is for 320 new M9's for LIRR. The option for MNRR has not been discussed but then again neither has the option for LIRR.

[jamesman8]

9001-9008 are basically MIA at the Kawasaki facility, were they shipped? If they were how long till they arrive?

[jamesman8]

M9's shipped today! 9001-9008 have now "officially" departed Japan for Pueblo, CA.

 

 

[MNR Beacon Line]

Bless the Japanese guy making these videos.

 

He's basically been us "civilians"' sole insight into the progress of this procurement.

[Bosco]

On 10/12/2017 at 10:00 PM, MNR Beacon Line said:

Bless the Japanese guy making these videos.

 

He's basically been us "civilians"' sole insight into the progress of this procurement.

Also bless the rail culture in Japan, which is celebrated a lot more than it is here.

From what folks told me when I was at Kawasaki, apparently in Hyogo there is a public roadway where people can watch workers build and move trains around.  That's how he's getting these videos (meanwhile, their place in Yonkers is guarded by barbed-wire fences all the way around).

[jamesman8]

4 hours ago, Bosco said:

Also bless the rail culture in Japan, which is celebrated a lot more than it is here.

From what folks told me when I was at Kawasaki, apparently in Hyogo there is a public roadway where people can watch workers build and move trains around.  That's how he's getting these videos (meanwhile, their place in Yonkers is guarded by barbed-wire fences all the way around).

That's because thats US government regulations, in Japan regulations are less secure.

[Bosco]

1 hour ago, jamesman8 said:

That's because thats US government regulations, in Japan regulations are less secure.

Of course, not to mention terrorism concerns especially in the northeast.  But besides the regulations, the Japanese have much more interest in mass transportation than the US.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Bosco

[jamesman8]

5 minutes ago, Bosco said:

Of course, not to mention terrorism concerns especially in the northeast.  But besides the regulations, the Japanese have much more interest in mass transportation than the US.

I think that's quite obvious just by their infrastructure alone around transportation.

[Missabassie]

On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 9:02 PM, Bosco said:

Of course, not to mention terrorism concerns especially in the northeast.  But besides the regulations, the Japanese have much more interest in mass transportation than the US.

And unfortunately Americans have been taught not to by design, which was a mistake....

[RailRunRob]

On 10/14/2017 at 9:07 PM, jamesman8 said:

I think that's quite obvious just by their infrastructure alone around transportation.

You guys have valid points. Let's not forget how we got here and the parameters involved.  The US really is several countries in one just the sheer size and the periods most American cities were built as we moved west. A lot of different cultures involved even on the Civic levels. East coast cities share a lot of similarities to European and some Asian cities in setup and even in transit. These tend to be areas where spaces of premium and were grids were laid out before the automobile. Compared that to the West Coast Phoenix, Vegas, LA 20th-century cities grids based on Parallel lines and plots with freeways connecting them. Japanese Cities A lot like the East Coast space is a premium the onslaught of cars not an option.  Tokyo is a expansive Metro  New York might as well New Hampshire  no comparison it's just not an option in Tokoyo 13Million people 37 if you count the outlying areas. The Folks in charge there understand what's at stake plus tack on the work ethics of the Japanese pow!. The US is just to large to have that type of commitment and intricacy when everyone's connected and you have someone making choices that lives in Montana or the deserts of New Mexico How could they possibly understand the Metropolitan areas On the East Coast? There's no way to get it cultural even the folks in Albany in our backyard don't fully get it. Too much of a gap culturally for the US to Focus and stay the course. Compare that to countries that are the size of states Japan is slightly smaller than California. IMO we need to start breaking our interest and control into more regional setups The only way I can really see the US moving forward and getting anything done.

Edited October 16, 2017 by RailRunRob