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checkmatechamp13

North Shore Rail Discussion

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as if the SAS isn't enough of a so-called burden....

as if places in Queens needing subway service & the MTA actually attempting to satisfy those patrons w/ subway service wouldn't be enough of a so-called burden....

 

I mean, what are you saying with that.... really..

 

Spacing between boroughs is no excuse for an area to be shunned from having the best possible transportation (especially if there's demand for it).... which does not constitute ferries carrying 65k/day (or w/e the numbers are) nor backtracking to Brooklyn, nor paying 5.50 to travel directly b/w the two areas in question when they could be paying 2.25 (with a faster commute compared to the ferry on top of it), nor having faster ferries, nor having ferries using buses as cargo.... you can miss me with that....

 

You may not agree w/ boring a tunnel b/w SI & Manhattan, but no way in hell is having the SIRT connect to NJ or Brooklyn the best option for SI'ers....

 

Well at least you clarified that you have an anti-SI stance.....

Edited by B35 via Church

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The people who live in SI consciously moved there, many to avoid the hustle and bustle of life in the other four boroughs. Why spend inordinate amounts of money to change something that the residents consciously agreed to?

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The people who live in SI consciously moved there, many to avoid the hustle and bustle of life in the other four boroughs. Why spend inordinate amounts of money to change something that the residents consciously agreed to?

 

Staten Island is still a part of the city & shouldn't be treated as anything less.....

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Maybe so, but unless the state foots the bill and nothing is taken out of the MTA's funds, then maybe. But places in Queens could use a new subway line for the cost of that SI to Manhattan tunnel. I'm sorry, but I just don't see a 5 mile subway tunnel ever getting built. The costs just doesn't justify it. You would be able to get a new Hudson river tunnel built before an SI to Manhattan tunnel ever happens.

 

 

The costs don't justify it? I already said that it's easily possible to get 200,000 riders a day to use the tunnel. How many of the current subway tunnels between the other 3 outer boroughs and Manhattan get 200,000 riders a day? Here, check out these counts for how many people use the tubs between Brooklyn & Manhattan: http://www.nyctransi..._20#entry572924

 

200,000 people would be more than any of these tunnels. Let's be super-conservative and assume that the only riders you'd attract would be current ferry riders. In that case, you're still carrying the same volume of passengers as the Clark Street tunnel, and over twice the amount of the Montague Street tunnel, and I'm sure you'll attract a lot more than the current ferry riders.

 

It's not like the chunnel b/w England and France where you have support from 2 countries. This would be a huge burden on the MTA as it would connect the subway to the SIRT.

 

 

What does running between 2 countries have to do with anything? If anything, it makes it more complicated because if there's any problems, you have to figure out whose jurisdiction it would be under. As for connecting the SIR to the subway, how is that a burden? That's like saying that integrating the BMT & IND was a burden. All that allows for more operational flexibility. As of now, if there's any major work to do on the subway cars, they have to drive them over the VZ Bridge to the Coney Island Yards in Brooklyn. If you connect it to the rest of the system, you just send them down the tracks to get there.

 

As for the actual topic of the North shore line, I am in favor of it as they should have another rail service as opposed to just the current line. I just don't see the justification of the long river tunnel. I mean how many express riders would give up their buses to ride this service? I think some are getting way ahead of themselves about this tunnel when the SAS hasn't even made it to Lower Manhattan via 2nd av and possibly Water st.

 

 

Well, obviously this is all assuming the SAS gets built. And obviously, we're talking about what should be happening. Yes, in the real world, the MTA delays projects like you wouldn't believe, but for all intents and purposes, we'll have to assume that they at least make an attempt to do it right.

 

You may not agree w/ boring a tunnel b/w SI & Manhattan, but no way in hell is having the SIRT connect to NJ or Brooklyn the best option for SI'ers....

 

 

Exactly. Ultimately, we still want to get to Manhattan. A tunnel to NJ or Brooklyn would be useful for other purposes (and personally, I think an HBLR extension should be built for a seperate reason), but no way should they say "Oh, you have your tunnel to NJ/Brooklyn. All your problems are solved."

 

The people who live in SI consciously moved there, many to avoid the hustle and bustle of life in the other four boroughs. Why spend inordinate amounts of money to change something that the residents consciously agreed to?

 

 

How about eastern Queens? They all chose to move there, didn't they? How come it's not OK for them to pack into buses to the subway, but it's alright for us to take a slow ferry ride?

 

Aside from that, not everybody chose to live here. Some were priced out of the other boroughs. On another forum, somebody said "If somebody dropped you off along Castleton Avenue, you wouldn't know if you were in SI or Brooklyn". (In fact, I remember walking down Castleton Avenue and hearing a woman say "I hate this neighborhood. It's like Brooklyn"). Here's an example to show you what I mean: http://www.google.co...=12,260.52,,0,0 That whole "they moved out there to get a better, suburban lifestyle and be away from the city" isn't entirely true.

 

Here's a more suburban example: http://www.google.co...&cbp=12,45,,0,0 (Aside from that, as I've said before, SI is more urban than 90% of the country, even in more spread-out, suburban neighborhoods).

 

Sure looks a lot like those Eastern Queens neighborhoods that need subway service badly (and again, I'm not making it an us vs. them situation, because there's no denying that both of those areas need service).

Edited by checkmatechamp13
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I believe either the S1 or S2 will be local, most likely the S1

 

 

There aren't enough stops to realistically justify a local/express setup, but yeah, if one of the lines were to be local, it would be the S1 because it's shorter (and since they're supposedly trying to help people coming from St. George, that's even more of a reason to speed up the S2).

 

There's still hope they'll change their mind on the whole busway plan.....

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So it was down to light rail and busway. Busway wood probabli win becasue if youre trying to get from seaview hosp/ mall to ferry, no transfer is needed. Ferry was the worst option. Not only is it very slow, think about how much it would cost to build new stations. It only got consideration because mo transfer would bx needed to get to manhattan. I wonder if theyll label any of tgese buses Selectbuservice. I hope so.

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It should have been BTWN Busway and Heavyrail. In the meantime, MTA should apply TSM. Also, thete should be light rail between Jamica center and Astoria via flushing and the airporn.

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So it was down to light rail and busway. Busway wood probabli win becasue if youre trying to get from seaview hosp/ mall to ferry, no transfer is needed. Ferry was the worst option. Not only is it very slow, think about how much it would cost to build new stations. It only got consideration because mo transfer would bx needed to get to manhattan. I wonder if theyll label any of tgese buses Selectbuservice. I hope so.

 

 

I don't even think they were seriously considering the ferry. They just put it out there as an option, but it would be stupid because it wouldn't make any use of the ROW at all.

 

As for SBS, well we'll have to wait and see, but if they do it, they probably would label it as SBS

 

It should have been BTWN Busway and Heavyrail. In the meantime, MTA should apply TSM. Also, thete should be light rail between Jamica center and Astoria via flushing and the airporn.

 

 

What do you mean by TSM?

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i think to me Light Rail would have been great because it would have intergreated well with the HBLR as well but i am curious on why the Busway for it seems kind of stupid.

 

here in Miami we have a Busway but its not as intergreating or interesting to ride on it compared to a Light Rail or Subway it seems odd.

 

to me Light Rail is the best option not Busway yes there wouldn't be transfers but busways don't work for long, Light Rails last longer.

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i think to me Light Rail would have been great because it would have intergreated well with the HBLR as well but i am curious on why the Busway for it seems kind of stupid.

 

here in Miami we have a Busway but its not as intergreating or interesting to ride on it compared to a Light Rail or Subway it seems odd.

 

to me Light Rail is the best option not Busway yes there wouldn't be transfers but busways don't work for long, Light Rails last longer.

 

 

I'd like to point out that the Bayonne Bridge is very high up (about 150 feet above sea level), and at that point, the North Shore Rail Line is below-grade, so the chances of it being integrated with the HBLR are slim to none. In any case, I think it's more important to integrate it with the existing SIR, since it's run by the MTA (not to mention it makes it easier to share facilities such as the Clifton Yard).

 

See here. The Bayonne Bridge is what you're looking at, which is high up, while the rail line is below the streetview.

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Nonononononononono....

 

The (T) cannot go to SI. That line would be slammed. No matter how you work it out, SI'ers would be too eager to use it. Plus, the (T) would be better off going to 3rd Avenue in the Bronx, and such a line from the Bronx-SI would be too long/crowded.

 

Exactly that is the point!!! If people are eager to use a service why deny it to them?

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As I have said a billion times. The best option for Staten Island would be a combination of light rail and high speed ferries with more destinations and more ferries. It would work a lot like the system in place in Hong Kong and Vancouver except it would be more of a light rail system, and it would still do wonders for the island.

Edited by Roadcruiser1

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As I have said a billion times. The best option for Staten Island would be a combination of light rail and high speed ferries with more destinations and more ferries. It would work a lot like the system in place in Hong Kong and Vancouver except it would be more of a light rail system, and it would still do wonders for the island.

 

if the light rail goes to nj cranford via elizbeth and jersey gardens light rail can work. Otherwise turn X LINE into LRT merged with north shore.

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We could have a t local and a U express (like a 5 and a 6) The si express trains will be <U>(like the <5>). Both will run on 3rd ave, 2nd av.

(U will make express stops at manhattan and bronx) it will also stop at governors island. the (U) and <U> will be the main line, and the T will run on the north shore. it will run underground in manhattan only. I will also remove +M15+ and put it somewhere else. Remove the machines and reprogram them.

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if the light rail goes to nj cranford via elizbeth and jersey gardens light rail can work. Otherwise turn X LINE into LRT merged with north shore.

 

 

An HBLR extension is best. The Triboro RX isn't happening since a large chunk of it is owned by CSX.

 

We could have a t local and a U express (like a 5 and a 6) The si express trains will be <U>(like the <5>). Both will run on 3rd ave, 2nd av.

(U will make express stops at manhattan and bronx) it will also stop at governors island. the (U) and <U> will be the main line, and the T will run on the north shore. it will run underground in manhattan only. I will also remove +M15+ and put it somewhere else. Remove the machines and reprogram them.

 

 

tumblr_m7bjr0xDHj1rbsctpo1_500.jpg

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Interesting photo in the President's Day Advance of where & how the resurrected North Shore SIR & a West Shore SIR would run:) Anyone else see it? Interesting! WS SIR would go to/from BAYONNE!:D

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Interesting photo in the President's Day Advance of where & how the resurrected North Shore SIR & a West Shore SIR would run:) Anyone else see it? Interesting! WS SIR would go to/from BAYONNE! :D

 

Resurrected? Few months ago plans were to BRT or otherwise turn the North Shore Branch into a bus route.

Edited by Vistausss
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Resurrected? Few months ago plans were to BRT or otherwise turn the North Shore Branch into a bus route.

 

All the North Shore plans are basically worthless since they don't have a penny to their name.

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