Express Deadhead

[TransitStop]

[Citaro]

Ottawa is a very beautiful city, but your buses are ugly and old. Time for Canada to use that free trade EFTA (http://www.international.gc.ca/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/efta-aele.aspx) contract to import something new and to cancel NAFTA.

[TransitStop]

Ottawa is a very beautiful city, but your buses are ugly and old. Time for Canada to use that free trade EFTA (http://www.international.gc.ca/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/efta-aele.aspx) contract to import something new and to cancel NAFTA.

 

not really, of all the buses showcased in this video there were only two old buses seen ( orion V's ) which are only from 1997-98 , most buses shown there were New Flyer D60LFR which are 2010-2011 and the new flyer invero's which are 2003-2007, the bus this was taken on was a 2007 D40i

 

btw these buses are very current for north america. Europe just has more fancier looking buses B)

[Citaro]

not really, of all the buses showcased in this video there were only two old buses seen ( orion V's ) which are only from 1997-98 , most buses shown there were New Flyer D60LFR which are 2010-2011 and the new flyer invero's which are 2003-2007, the bus this was taken on was a 2007 D40i

 

btw these buses are very current for north america. Europe just has more fancier looking buses B)

 

The only thing i like on north american buses is the more heavily use of LED backlights, but the rest is (except the new orion) sorry, very shitty. And even Orion would be a crappy company without the support of Daimler. Sorry, you north americans know how build big skyscrapers, but you can not build a modern bus. But hey we wouldn't have an iphone without North America, why you don't import some of our buses? That is what Adam Smith said about free trade, where each side will profit from. I would like to see some citaros in Canada, but that is just what i think. I like my iphone too

 

Here that are some fancy citaros:

 

 

 

 

 

 

or a MAN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dBXjUQsV4s&hd=1

[Vistausss]

Those Citaro's are just plain ugly. And yes, I say that as a Dutch guy. And riding those Citaro's is even worse. Here in Almere we have Citaro's and Berkhof Ambassadors and I try to take the Berkhof's has much as possible.

 

Even better and more beautiful are the Van Hool's, but we don't have them in Almere B)

 

I like most American buses too btw except for Orion. Orion is the only one who makes ugly buses. But NovaBus and New Flyer are making really beautiful buses IMHO

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'm sorry mate, but I have to agree w/Citaro. The buses look better in Europe. I love the newer buses in Italy, although I could do without the orange. The dark red ones in Rome are cool. :cool:

 

By the way are any of the Canadian buses wrapped? They look they all are but I'm not sure.

[TransitStop]

I'm sorry mate, but I have to agree w/Citaro. The buses look better in Europe. I love the newer buses in Italy, although I could do without the orange. The dark red ones in Rome are cool. :cool:

 

By the way are any of the Canadian buses wrapped? They look they all are but I'm not sure.

 

ahah no problem everyone is entitled to an opinion

 

however i believe that European buses would not manage in North America ( just my opinion ) the buses made in NA are meant to handle rugged conditions, such as the New Flyer and older Orion buses

 

and by wrapped i assume you are talking about the flag's on the buses? and nope that is OC Transpo's Livery

[Via Garibaldi 8]

ahah no problem everyone is entitled to an opinion

 

however i believe that European buses would not manage in North America ( just my opinion ) the buses made in NA are meant to handle rugged conditions, such as the New Flyer and older Orion buses

 

and by wrapped i assume you are talking about the flag's on the buses? and nope that is OC Transpo's Livery

 

Yeah, well Europe has much better infrastructure than say the U.S. I think the Canadians do well with their roads too, but you guys have tough winters like we do here in New York City.

 

Very interesting about the livery feature... Very cool... Canadian pride. :tup::cool:

[Queens Surface]

Good lord I will take a "crappy" Orion V over those ugly european buses.

[TransitStop]

Good lord I will take a "crappy" Orion V over those ugly european buses.

 

exactly the Orion V's are meant to last 20+ years, not like the european models which are meant to "look nice" ( which they dont lol )

[Vistausss]

exactly the Orion V's are meant to last 20+ years, not like the european models which are meant to "look nice" ( which they dont lol )

 

Well actually, we still have Den Oudsten-buses riding in The Netherlands and they're late 80's/early 90's. But Den Oudsten-buses always last long. They almost never have problems. Too bad Den Oudsten company defunct since 2001 B) Btw, the last CEO of Den Oudsten was also the CEO of New Flyer from the 80's till 2003 or 2004.

The current Berkhof-buses (which are really, really, really common here) are not going to make more than 12 years. The Citaro's in Almere are already at the end of their life. And they are from 2003/2004. But they suck anyway, so I don't care. The sooner they're gone, the better.

Van Hool-buses are also lasting a long time. In Utrecht, there are Van Hool buses from the early 90's still in regular service. Also, the newer Van Hool's almost never have problems (the old ones neither btw, even after all those miles).

Even Canada and Baltimore have Van Hool's.

MAN-buses are also not hitting the 12 years. Volvo's are like the Citaro's: way behind, although Volvo actually has hybrid-buses. But the Volvo's are not gonna make the 12 years either.

 

I still stand behind what I said earlier in this thread, but a little view on the European buses from an European guy is never bad B)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well actually, we still have Den Oudsten-buses riding in The Netherlands and they're late 80's/early 90's. But Den Oudsten-buses always last long. They almost never have problems. Too bad Den Oudsten company defunct since 2001 Btw, the last CEO of Den Oudsten was also the CEO of New Flyer from the 80's till 2003 or 2004.

The current Berkhof-buses (which are really, really, really common here) are not going to make more than 12 years. The Citaro's in Almere are already at the end of their life. And they are from 2003/2004. But they suck anyway, so I don't care. The sooner they're gone, the better.

Van Hool-buses are also lasting a long time. In Utrecht, there are Van Hool buses from the early 90's still in regular service. Also, the newer Van Hool's almost never have problems (the old ones neither btw, even after all those miles).

Even Canada and Baltimore have Van Hool's.

MAN-buses are also not hitting the 12 years. Volvo's are like the Citaro's: way behind, although Volvo actually has hybrid-buses. But the Volvo's are not gonna make the 12 years either.

 

I still stand behind what I said earlier in this thread, but a little view on the European buses from an European guy is never bad

 

The Europeans generally build to last. In Italy we still have many older buses mixed in with newer ones and they work just fine. :cool:

[Vistausss]

Not true. Only some companies in Europe built to last, like I made clear in my previous post.

[AlexLy]

There wouldn't be any Nova Bus LFS if there was no Den Oudsten Alliance. They used to make pretty nice buses in Europe.

 

Original bus (Den Oudsten Alliance):

 

Result (Nova Bus LFS):

 

So, why are we debating?

[OC Transpo 8238]

exactly the Orion V's are meant to last 20+ years, not like the european models which are meant to "look nice" ( which they dont lol )

Orion V's are 12 year buses, not 20+.

[OC Transpo 8238]

The only thing i like on north american buses is the more heavily use of LED backlights, but the rest is (except the new orion) sorry, very shitty. And even Orion would be a crappy company without the support of Daimler. Sorry, you north americans know how build big skyscrapers, but you can not build a modern bus. But hey we wouldn't have an iphone without North America, why you don't import some of our buses? That is what Adam Smith said about free trade, where each side will profit from. I would like to see some citaros in Canada, but that is just what i think. I like my iphone too

 

 

NA buses aren't "shitty" by any means, Orion did just fine without Damiler's help, the Orion V was a sucess for about 20 years and was a proven bus design. Look at the Silverside, started production in 1959 (USA), 1961 (Canada) and finished in 1986 (Canada) and ran through Canadian winters without rebuild for 12+ years. I think NA bus builders know how to build a bus. OC Transpo tried importing buses once, remember the Ikarus? We tried the Orion III which was an 60ft Ikarus artic, the biggest hunk of junk OC Transpo ever ran! They rotted out in less than 20 years. So OC Transpo gave up on importing shitty quality European buses and stuck to LOCAL bus providers who had proven designs (Classic, V, D40) that we know would work for our needs. You may think our buses are ugly or of shitty quality (although if your not riding them, how can you prove it?) Come back with proof of shitty then we can talk.

[TransitStop]

NA buses aren't "shitty" by any means, Orion did just fine without Damiler's help, the Orion V was a sucess for about 20 years and was a proven bus design. Look at the Silverside, started production in 1959 (USA), 1961 (Canada) and finished in 1986 (Canada) and ran through Canadian winters without rebuild for 12+ years. I think NA bus builders know how to build a bus. OC Transpo tried importing buses once, remember the Ikarus? We tried the Orion III which was an 60ft Ikarus artic, the biggest hunk of junk OC Transpo ever ran! They rotted out in less than 20 years. So OC Transpo gave up on importing shitty quality European buses and stuck to LOCAL bus providers who had proven designs (Classic, V, D40) that we know would work for our needs. You may think our buses are ugly or of shitty quality (although if your not riding them, how can you prove it?) Come back with proof of shitty then we can talk.

 

Exactly, and you right the V's are 12+ not 20 ... im not sure why is said 20 lmaoo

[Citaro]

That is NA: http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h2/jcl_7/OC_Transpo/OrionV_1997-98/interior_2006_06_03/1997_OrionV-interior_back.jpg?1297971552

 

That is the 21th century: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/Mercedes-Benz_Citaro_demonstrator_BN09_FWS_interior.JPG

 

 

NA buses aren't "shitty" by any means, Orion did just fine without Damiler's help, the Orion V was a sucess for about 20 years and was a proven bus design. Look at the Silverside, started production in 1959 (USA), 1961 (Canada) and finished in 1986 (Canada) and ran through Canadian winters without rebuild for 12+ years. I think NA bus builders know how to build a bus.

 

How much buses you've sold around the world? 0! Daimler has sold 30.000 buses in 13 years around the world. These buses are the most reliable buses ever. I know it, i ride with these buses for more than 10 years, nearly every day. I've never seen a broken citaro, just a few old MAN buses and some with defects had burned in London and Berlin. If you don't like the orion buses from Daimler why you buy so much from it, if a city has enough money for it like NY? Half of the technology Orion uses in its new buses is from the citaro. You would have not a single modern bus in NA without Daimler, not a single low-floor or hybrid bus that is fact. Trust me your buses are shit.

 

OC Transpo tried importing buses once, remember the Ikarus? We tried the Orion III which was an 60ft Ikarus artic, the biggest hunk of junk OC Transpo ever ran! They rotted out in less than 20 years. So OC Transpo gave up on importing shitty quality European buses and stuck to LOCAL bus providers who had proven designs (Classic, V, D40) that we know would work for our needs.

 

Ikarus? What the hell is Ikarus? It's total unknown in Europe, because it is a former communist company in Hungary. Hungary was a third world country before it has entered the Union. Ikarus is not what we stand for here. Hungary is for us like Mexico for you. MAN, Mercedes, Van Hool, Irisbus and SETRA is what is commonly used here.

 

You may think our buses are ugly or of shitty quality (although if your not riding them, how can you prove it?) Come back with proof of shitty then we can talk.

 

It's like comparing a BMW with a old Beetle, it's not necessary to test the Beetle to show that it is old. I know it, i see it in the videos and photos from in- and outside and i know the engine, it's old, we have LCD screens onboard here. You have these ancient stop lines and plastic seats. The only thing you have which is more advanced is the use of LED backlights. That is all. It's obviously that you are 30 years behind, even the chinese build more modern buses. Our buses are driving everywhere, in Singapore, in Tokio, in London, in Paris, in South America, in Australia, in Russia, in Dubai, everywhere.

[TransitStop]

So your trashing North american buses because... i, or OC8238 didnt trash your system of buses. Our buses are only broken down because we run them till they die. which is how they should be ran.

 

Also you compared two completely different generations of buses. an Orion V, i mean common even you know those are 1997's and for plastic seats that was @ OC Transpo's request IIRC, also your bus only looks better because of the interior lighting inside and ect. this is what a bus in NA looks like

 

and as for a LCD screen? Pointless.

 

as for the Orion/Dailmer thing. the only reason why we have them is to meet EPA 2010 standards if not we would be using New Flyer,Gillig and ect

 

our buses have advance a considerable amount since the 50's, also my question is what are you trying to prove? i mean i display photos of a bus deadhead ( which is rare to see ) and it turns to this? Common.

 

K im done ragging.

[AlexLy]

I don't remember Nova Bus being owned by Daimler... But it is owned by Volvo.

 

Each buses have their own specialities, we cannot say that a bus is "shitty" when it has everything for a comfy ride (and that includes North American and European buses)! Some like Citaros and others like New Flyers, but they all provide the same thing for riders... a good bus.

[TransitStop]

I don't remember Nova Bus being owned by Daimler... But it is owned by Volvo.

 

Each buses have their own specialities, we cannot say that a bus is "shitty" when it has everything for a comfy ride (and that includes North American and European buses)! Some like Citaros and others like New Flyers, but they all provide the same thing for riders... a good bus.

 

alright what Alex said was way better than my pointless rant. lets just drop this whole thing.

 

Thanks Alex for the unbiased opinion!

[OC Transpo 8238]

That is NA:How much buses you've sold around the world? 0! Daimler has sold 30.000 buses in 13 years around the world. These buses are the most reliable buses ever. I know it, i ride with these buses for more than 10 years, nearly every day. I've never seen a broken citaro, just a few old MAN buses and some with defects had burned in London and Berlin. If you don't like the orion buses from Daimler why you buy so much from it, if a city has enough money for it like NY? Half of the technology Orion uses in its new buses is from the citaro. You would have not a single modern bus in NA without Daimler, not a single low-floor or hybrid bus that is fact. Trust me your buses are shit.

 

 

 

Ikarus? What the hell is Ikarus? It's total unknown in Europe, because it is a former communist company in Hungary. Hungary was a third world country before it has entered the Union. Ikarus is not what we stand for here. Hungary is for us like Mexico for you. MAN, Mercedes, Van Hool, Irisbus and SETRA is what is commonly used here.

 

It's like comparing a BMW with a old Beetle, it's not necessary to test the Beetle to show that it is old. I know it, i see it in the videos and photos from in- and outside and i know the engine, it's old, we have LCD screens onboard here. You have these ancient stop lines and plastic seats. The only thing you have which is more advanced is the use of LED backlights. That is all. It's obviously that you are 30 years behind, even the chinese build more modern buses. Our buses are driving everywhere, in Singapore, in Tokio, in London, in Paris, in South America, in Australia, in Russia, in Dubai, everywhere.

Actually when it was Orion Bus Industries, the Orion II was exported over to Poland and a few other countries, if NA buses are soo "shitty" why has a Scottish transportation museum requested a TTC GM Silverside? Why has a ex. ETS BBC been sent to a museum abroad? Because its proven and the iconic transit bus of NA.

 

We have had "modern" LF buses without Damiler, we have: Gillig, NABI, NFI, NOVA. Lets amuse your thought of "nothing without citaro", the ideas would get here anyway, and we would use them. Modern isnt always a good thing and I am against modern transit buses because they are all just electronics. Which isn't needed.

You've never seen a broken Citaro? I've never seen a: Silverside, Classic, D40 on the side of the road before, has it happened? You bet! ALL buses break, even your beloved Citaros.

And by the time Damiler had ties with Orion, Orion already built a hybird bus

(1997, with Lockheed Martin).

Your comparisons are so far to the extremes, of course your buses are "BMW"s of the fleet, and ours are "Old Beetles". How would you "know the engine" of an Orion V running for OC Transpo, have you ever worked on one? Have you ever ridden one? The Series 50 Detroits aren't old by any means! They are still a fast proven engine used by a lot of TA's.

NA isn't behind, we CHOOSE not to sink thousands of dollars of extras into our buses, because we want MORE buses to get on the roads. Look at VIVA for YRT, they have screens in they're buses, does it really matter? No, it's still a transit bus. Used for picking people up and dropping people off.

Im sorry, but I wont trust you in saying our buses are shit, when I know otherwise after riding them for years.

[Citaro]

So your trashing North american buses because... i, or OC8238 didnt trash your system of buses. Our buses are only broken down because we run them till they die. which is how they should be ran.

 

Even if you compare your second photo with my second link you can see how far behind the times you are.

 

Our buses run until the dead too, in AFRICA and Cuba! When it comes to the age of the buses, 80% of these buses wouldn't run here for 10 years.

 

That is a bus from the 70's: http://www.nrw-bus.de/Bilder/RBO305GName.jpg

 

80's: http://www.manfredgrabowski.de/OR%20252%20II.jpg

 

90's: http://www.wisoveg.de/bve/sichtungen/2004/originalfotos/kzy240o405ng.jpg

 

present: http://www.benzinsider.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/mercedes-benz-citaro-g-bluetec-hybrid.jpg

 

 

And look, that is the interior of your current buses.

 

 

That is a O 405 GN from the 90's

 

http://files.homepagemodules.de/b202338/f6t657p3247n7.jpg

 

You can see that you are at least 10 years behind us.

[OC Transpo 8238]

Even if you compare your second photo with my second link you can see how far behind the times you are.

 

Our buses run until the dead too, in AFRICA and Cuba! When it comes to the age of the buses, 80% of these buses wouldn't run here for 10 years.

 

You can see that you are at least 10 years behind us.

Cuba still runs SILVERSIDES, from cities like: Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto. Our early 1970's buses still run down there. Guess that they can hold up.

[Citaro]

Cuba still runs SILVERSIDES, from cities like: Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto. Our early 1970's buses still run down there. Guess that they can hold up.

 

That you use so many old buses doesn't mean automatically that just your buses run so long, that just means that you have too less new buses.

 

Our buses from the 70's are still so modern and reliable, that they are still used in a first world desert heat country like Australia. The evidence: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/MBO305-307-Transperth.JPG

 

If Daimler would be an american company, the buses from the 90's would be still in service. That is what you have now, buses from the 90's. Notice that we use stop buttons since the 80's and low-floor buses since the 90's. In my city not a single non-low-floor bus is still in service for more than 5 years.

 

Trust me, you are at least 10 years behind us in public transport.