Routes that aren't around that should be

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Vistausss]

"then extend the to run under Gun Hill rd."

 

Either that, or extend the to 204 st. I mean, if we follow the original 3rd Ave El, it would end in 204 st, while the ends in Norwood-205 st. So it would be easy to connect it via 1 street of just build something in between 204 st and Norwood and use that as a replacement for 204 and Norwood.

 

I agree that the SAS needs to be the 3rd Ave El in the Bronx.

[Roadcruiser1]

The (8) could be used for the , or the if the wants which is possible, but I do suggest that the elevates in the Bronx, and run as an El train down Third Avenue. The best idea is to elevate the north of Norwood-205th Street, and have it join the to run to the lower level of Gun Hill Road.

[3rd Avenue El]

The (8) could be used for the , or the if the wants which is possible, but I do suggest that the elevates in the Bronx, and run as an El train down Third Avenue. The best idea is to elevate the north of Norwood-205th Street, and have it join the to run to the lower level of Gun Hill Road.

 

yes but remember the third avenue el was A DIVISION standard and if they rebuild it it will most likely be A DIVISION standard. the reason for that is because the lower level of gun hill road can not fit 60 footers or 75 footers. the curve would be to closed to meet B DIVISION standards. the would be elevated in the bronx all the way to 149th street were it terminates and on the upper level you can catch the (8) to gun hill road. you can also elevate the from 205th street to williamsbridge to provide an early transfer who are coming on the and have to catch either the ( instead of waiting to get to manhattan to take the IND 8th avenue line. they can switch to the (8) at gun hill then take the at williamsbridge to manhattan.

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Roadcruiser1]

Thank you Kamen Rider. The entire Third Avenue Elevated along with the Gun Hill Road Lower Level was ripped apart a long time ago. If the Lower Level is rebuilt it could be made B division not A division, and I can prove it.

 

This is all that is left of the lower level of the Gun Hill Road station from 2007. This shows where the tracks used to be. If you look the entire lower level is gone.

Here is another one.

This is proof that the Lower Level could be rebuilt to B division standards, and you should stop your useless foaming now. So of course if it happens the Lower Level of the Gun Hill Road station would be the future home of the , and trains.

[3rd Avenue El]

Thank you Kamen Rider. The entire Third Avenue Elevated along with the Gun Hill Road Lower Level was ripped apart a long time ago. If the Lower Level is rebuilt it could be made B division not A division, and I can prove it.

 

This is all that is left of the lower level of the Gun Hill Road station from 2007. This shows where the tracks used to be. If you look the entire lower level is gone.

Here is another one.

 

if you can prove it show me how the 3rd avenue el can be rebuilt to meet B DIVISION standards

[Roadcruiser1]

The Third Avenue Elevated was torn and ripped down a long time ago dummy where have you been. It has been gone since 1973. The Manhattan section has been gone since 1955, and for the South Ferry section since 1950.

[CenSin]

yes but remember the third avenue el was A DIVISION standard and if they rebuild it it will most likely be A DIVISION standard. the reason for that is because the lower level of gun hill road can not fit 60 footers or 75 footers. the curve would be to closed to meet B DIVISION standards. the would be elevated in the bronx all the way to 149th street were it terminates and on the upper level you can catch the (8) to gun hill road. you can also elevate the from 205th street to williamsbridge to provide an early transfer who are coming on the and have to catch either the ( instead of waiting to get to manhattan to take the IND 8th avenue line. they can switch to the (8) at gun hill then take the at williamsbridge to manhattan.

Why the **** does it have to be A Division standards? Point out any physically restraining obstacle that prevents that. The structure allows for B division trains to run on it provided the platforms are built to accommodate that, and if the MTA needed to, it could convert the entire White Plains Road line to B division standards quite easily (minus the connection to a B division line). Similarly, on the Flushing line from Queensboro Plaza to Main Street, only A division trains use the tracks, but if the platforms were shaved back, B division trains could use it.

 

There is also no mandate that forces the line to even be elevated at all. There is a station house on the street level that could be used for an underground station as well.

[Roadcruiser1]

Thank you Censin for your powerful input. Though I do favor an elevated line only, because it would be much faster then building a subway. As we see today the Second Avenue Subway takes a long time to build. The elevated line would get done much quicker, and should provide relief to the Concourse Line. Providing that it is done with beauty, and grace, along with soundproofing to ward off noise, and designed to allow as much sunlight hit the street as possible.

[Vistausss]

"There is also no mandate that forces the line to even be elevated at all. There is a station house on the street level that could be used for an underground station as well."

 

But seeing that there is enough room on the lower level of Gun Hill Road, they could just easily rebuilt it. Even when the wouldn't be broke, what is cheaper and more logical to do: rebuilt a lower level on an existing and actively used structure or go complicated to build it underground but looks nice for the people on the streets?

I'd go for the first thing.

[CenSin]

if you can prove it show me how the 3rd avenue el can be rebuilt to meet B DIVISION standards

Here is something to read up on:

http://www.stationreporter.net/adiv.htm

Below are the IRT lines that were built to BMT specs, and can fit 60 foot cars, if of course the station platforms were shaved off a bit (they are slightly wider to allow for the narrower IRT cars that run there). And also of course, let’s not forget that over time, some signal buildings, or other obstructions may have been built here and there that may have to be removed or altered, but the basic tunnel and el clearances themselves would allow for the wider BMT sized rolling stock.

 

IRT lines that can handle BMT sized cars once the station platforms are shaved

 

• The Lexington Line north of Grand Central. (4/5/6)

• The Broadway-7th Ave Line (West Side IRT) south of Times Square (including
• Times Square, but excluding the South Ferry loop) . (1/2/3)

• The Dyre Ave Line and all the other Bronx IRT Els except the West Farms El south of East 180th St.

• The Brooklyn IRT Line east of Atlantic Avenue, including both the Livonia El, and the Flatbush line. (2/3/4/5)

• The Clark St Tunnel from Manhattan to where it joins the Joralemon tunnel route. (2/3)

• The entire Flushing Line in Queens, excluding the Steinway tubes.

 

 

IRT lines that are restricted to IRT size cars

 

• The Lexington Line south of Grand Central, including the South
• Ferry Loop (which originally was built for the Lexington Line, not the West Side line, as is the operation today). (4/5/6)

• The Broadway-7th Avenue Line (West Side IRT) Line north of Times Square, excluding 42nd St-Times Square itself (which is Dual Contracts). (1/2/3)

• The 42nd Street Shuttle.

• The Joralemon Tunnel and route from Manhattan to Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn. (4/5)

• The Steinway Tubes on the Flushing Line.

• The 2/3 Line from 96th St to Lenox and including the West Farms El to East 180th St.

 

 

Everything on the IRT not included in the second list is built to IND/BMT specs, and could technically carry 60 foot car. Of course the platforms would have to be shaved, and I'm sure their have been some encumbrances built since then (signal houses and the like), but the tunnels themselves are built to allow BMT sized cars to go through (possibly the length of a BMT Standard which was 67 feet, but certainly a 60 foot car).

In other words, all of the elevated IRT lines that exist today in The Bronx and Brooklyn (with the exception of the line) were built to accommodate the wider BMT cars should the need arise. Therefore, if you plop all of the steel and woodwork back where it belongs, it will be able to accommodate B division cars.

 

 

With that said, something needs to be done about the foam and outrageous uninformed assertions…

[Roadcruiser1]

Yeah that is one of the things the needs to do quickly, and that is widen the Steinway Tubes which were only built for streetcars/trolley's/light rail.

[CenSin]

Yeah that is one of the things the needs to do quickly, and that is widen the Steinway Tubes which were only built for streetcars/trolley's/light rail.

You mean replace… Tunnels are hypothetically difficult to widen, especially since it's cast iron. It's not a rubber band that can stretch.

[LRG]

Here is something to read up on:

http://www.stationreporter.net/adiv.htm

 

In other words, all of the elevated IRT lines that exist today in The Bronx and Brooklyn (with the exception of the line) were built to accommodate the wider BMT cars should the need arise. Therefore, if you plop all of the steel and woodwork back where it belongs, it will be able to accommodate B division cars.

 

 

The Dyre Avenue Line cannot handle BMT cars either.

[EE Broadway Local]

What is the Dyre Avenue Line today was part of the New York, Westchester And Boston, a railroad that operated from May 29, 1912 to December 31, 1937.

It's the reason the Concourse extension was shelved and 205th Street remains a terminal.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

The Dyre Avenue Line cannot handle BMT cars either.

It must be able to because the MTA proposed making the Dyre Avenue Line one of its two Bronx branches of the Second Avenue Subway back in 1968. Also, I believe the NYW&B stations had to be widened to handle IRT el and subway cars after the City took over the line.