MTA: Long Island Bus faces deepest cuts

[checkmatechamp13]

Correct. But an LIRR train doesn't have as much standing room as the subway, and if intermediate ridership were to surge, the MTA would lose some revenue because the ticket collection rate on intermediates is pretty low. Heck, even my Hempstead-Jamaica LIRR ticket was never collected!

 

The Babylon Branch will see the brunt of the extra ridership, but it can handle it because it retains one track per direction even during the rush hour, whereas the mainline functions as a single-direction throat. Unfortunately, the only route with real LIRR alternatives is the N19. N79, the stations are too far apart, and the other routes only have one or two stations along their routes.

 

The fare lost by the MTA not collecting the ticket is less than the cost of running the bus. The N19 costs $5 per person, and if the MTA collects $2.25, they lost $2.75 for every person that boarded. On the other hand, if the extra passengers manage to get onto a train, they basically cost the MTA nothing, since they didn't require an extra service.

 

But I agree that the Babylon Branch will see the most former bus riders. Former N79 riders (assuming that it does get eliminated, which I doubt, since that will probably be one of their "givebacks" at the public hearings) are most likely to take the N22 over the LIRR.

 

They're commuter trains, not subways so the idea is to have more seats so that people won't have to stand, thus meaning that if people are standing it will be quite crazy since they're not designed for hoards of people to be standing. If those bus cuts go through that's what will llikely happen.

 

Not really. Only one line (the N19 parallels an LIRR branch). As I said above, the only other route that parallels the LIRR is the N79, so you'll see more crushloaded buses (N22s) than crushloaded trains caused by these reductions.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The fare lost by the MTA not collecting the ticket is less than the cost of running the bus. The N19 costs $5 per person, and if the MTA collects $2.25, they lost $2.75 for every person that boarded. On the other hand, if the extra passengers manage to get onto a train, they basically cost the MTA nothing, since they didn't require an extra service.

 

But I agree that the Babylon Branch will see the most former bus riders. Former N79 riders (assuming that it does get eliminated, which I doubt, since that will probably be one of their "givebacks" at the public hearings) are most likely to take the N22 over the LIRR.

 

 

 

Not really. Only one line (the N19 parallels an LIRR branch). As I said above, the only other route that parallels the LIRR is the N79, so you'll see more crushloaded buses (N22s) than crushloaded trains caused by these reductions.

 

 

Lets not forget that service on some LIRR lines was cut back...

[Vistausss]

Lets not forget that service on some LIRR lines was cut back...

 

That's mostly on the Port Washington and Greenport-branch

But even then, they may add extra service if the N19 gets eliminated. It's cheaper to just add an extra or longer train than to have lots of buses driving.

[Burrstone]

That's mostly on the Port Washington and Greenport-branch

But even then, they may add extra service if the N19 gets eliminated. It's cheaper to just add an extra or longer train than to have lots of buses driving.

 

Is it really? I'd love to see some figures... How much does adding cars? Extra conductors? Does it use more fuel/electric to operate these routes? For a $2.75 ticket are you really saving by cutting buses like the N19?

 

All these buses driving? How much does a conductor make? I'd assume close to or more than a LIB bus driver?

 

How much does it cost to maintain addition cars on a train?

 

Platforms are only so long and at rush hours, even at rush hours some Babylon line trains are 12 long requiring some passengers at some stations to move to other cars to exit. If you add more cars to trains will passengers coming on and getting off in these types of stations move to other cars to get out of the way and re-enter cars that platform when it is time for their stop? Or will they stay on the cars that platform, overcrowding them?

 

Peak trains on the Babylon line are already overcrowded! So much so that I'd rather not pay so much to be packed in there like cattle, and take the bus (that goes past my house, not a 15-20 walk to LIRR, and I'm closer than many "on" the Babylon line)....

 

I couldn't imagine packing more people on peak Babylon line trains, even you added two cars. Mixing all these riders seems like you'd really have to overhall the schedule as many peak trains go express skipping many stops as it is set up to shuttle people into the city in the morning and back in the afternoon/evening, NOT for local service...

 

Some people don't understand you cannot equate a lirr car to a subway car... There is not as much room to stand as a subway car. Just a little room by the doors, and the isles. lol yea ok....

 

As I said the trains are packed! You want to add passengers? What makes you think the LIRR will add cars? Add more people, when there is already is no room and people are people are paying 5, 6, 8, 12, 13 bucks to get into the city and they have to stand, and fight over a seat when they become available... Well, it's only a matter of time before people riot!!!!!! Seriously.

[Vistausss]

"Is it really? I'd love to see some figures... How much does adding cars? Extra conductors? Does it use more fuel/electric to operate these routes? For a $2.75 ticket are you really saving by cutting buses like the N19?"

 

Adding, say, 2 cars doesn't consume as much electricity as a bus would consume fuel.

 

"All these buses driving? How much does a conductor make? I'd assume close to or more than a LIB bus driver?"

 

Who says an extra conductor is needed? There are already about 2-3 conductors on the train in rush hour, isn't that more than enough? It sure is more than here in The Netherlands, even on long trains.

 

"How much does it cost to maintain addition cars on a train?"

 

How much does it cost to maintain loads of buses?

 

"Platforms are only so long and at rush hours, even at rush hours some Babylon line trains are 12 long requiring some passengers at some stations to move to other cars to exit. If you add more cars to trains will passengers coming on and getting off in these types of stations move to other cars to get out of the way and re-enter cars that platform when it is time for their stop? Or will they stay on the cars that platform, overcrowding them?"

 

There are already cars out of service in operating trains. Can give you a lot of videos on YouTube where you can see cars out of service in an operating (scheduled) train, even in rush hour. So there would be no difference.

 

"Peak trains on the Babylon line are already overcrowded! So much so that I'd rather not pay so much to be packed in there like cattle, and take the bus (that goes past my house, not a 15-20 walk to LIRR, and I'm closer than many "on" the Babylon line)...."

 

If they add more cars, that'll relieve the crowds.

And for your walk, we're (you and I) only talking about the N19 here. Not any other line, just the N19.

 

"I couldn't imagine packing more people on peak Babylon line trains, even you added two cars. Mixing all these riders seems like you'd really have to overhall the schedule as many peak trains go express skipping many stops as it is set up to shuttle people into the city in the morning and back in the afternoon/evening, NOT for local service..."

 

But local service is possible, so why not? If they just add a few local trains to the existing express trains, than it's possible.

 

"Some people don't understand you cannot equate a lirr car to a subway car... There is not as much room to stand as a subway car. Just a little room by the doors, and the isles. lol yea ok...."

 

But there is more seating than on a subway car. There's even 3x2 seats in a row. So that's a lot of seating. The extra seating makes up for the standing.

 

"As I said the trains are packed! You want to add passengers? What makes you think the LIRR will add cars?"

 

What makes you think they won't add extra cars? You think they're cold-hearted at the MTA, cutting bus service and let people suffer? I'm pretty sure they come up with an alternative for the stranded bus passengers, which would make it logical to have longer trains on the LIRR (still talking about the N19 here, but could be the same for every other bus line that travels big parts near the LIRR).

[qjtransitmaster]

All the MTA proposal here sucks worse than any MTA cut plan I saw so far Here is a real one if the MTA doesn't want to anger nassau I know it is mostly nassau's fault though

 

N6 is a profitable route but other rtes there go to hempstead that lose money too. It can be split in to 4 to 5 parts.

 

 

N6 BELLMORE VIA ROOSEVELT FIELD This variation will go through charles lindburgh to merrick ave it will travel via east meadow ave replacing N46.

 

N7 will extend to Travel to Bellmore via prospect ave replacing part of the N46 then going to sunrise Mall and amityville LIRR via newbridge ave and sunrise Hwy.

 

N9 extends to sunrise mall via merrick rd Replacing N19 and N50 via merrick ave and bellmore ave. Timed transfers will be made with other rtes there. N4 extends to bellmore for interlining purposes SOME N4 TRIPS WILL BECOME N74/73.

 

N10/11 will replace N55/54 extra service at rush hour to accomidate LIRR passengers from babylon line. This can be done with leftover N6 ltd trips.

 

I can save N79/78 and 58 but that's a secret.

 

N71 extends to babylon replacing N19 suffolk segment.

 

N40/41 will replace N88 and N74/73 extend to long beach via jones beach theatre.

 

 

N33 gets combined with select Q113 ltd trips and Q22 trips but to keep costs down Q22 EXTENDS TO LONG BEACH REPLACING N33.

 

 

Take over long beach bus BY FORCE!!!! A fragmented bus network encourages SPRAWL!!!!!! Long beach bus does more harm than good for long beach residents as it requires those to pay separate fares from LIB most wont pay and will only drive!!!!!!!! This leaves transfering between LB buses and LIB MTA impractical.

 

ALL N20 TRIPS EXTEND TO HICKSVILLE BUT TRIPS ORIGINATING AND ENDING AT GREAT NECK LIRR DISCONTINUED!!! However N20 will still serve Great neck LIRR!!!! The extention can reuse N20 trips on N80 or 81

 

N36 used for interlineing purposes to shift buses from lynbrook via N31 and N25 to freeport so they can become N41 or N43 without deadheading thus reducing non-revenue runs. between the hubs. N36 is preserved but as the extention of N25 which can change into an N41 or N43 or go back to jamacia as N4.

 

The rest I will mention via a typed document MY PROPOSAL IF USED CAN KILL OFF ALL THE CUTS AND SAVE MTA MONEY AS WELL.

[qjtransitmaster]

these need to get CUT

 

BM4 , BXM4 DUPLICATED BX1/2 LTD AND 4 AND D TRAINS.

 

QM3 NO ONE USES IT QM3 COSTS 200 PER MONTH WITH XBUS PLUS LIRR TO LITTLE NECK COSTS $193 $7 CHEAPER YET 3 TIMES FASTER.

 

X64 AND X63. Extend Q84 to replace rosedale X63 LIRR adds free transfer.

 

QM18 DUPLICATED Q10 YET ISN'T FASTER. Merge X68 with QM1 via rerouting X68 to 188th street Service on hillside west of 188th DISCONTINUED.

[Shortline Bus]

Hey you qjtrainmaster how dare you say the other members 'suck. Talk about someone being rude as a new member. We don't play the insult game here. It's ok to disagree but to call people on a website you don't know that they 'suck' as way off base.:tdown:

 

these need to get CUT

 

BM4 , BXM4 DUPLICATED BX1/2 LTD AND 4 AND D TRAINS.

 

QM3 NO ONE USES IT QM3 COSTS 200 PER MONTH WITH XBUS PLUS LIRR TO LITTLE NECK COSTS $193 $7 CHEAPER YET 3 TIMES FASTER.

 

X64 AND X63. Extend Q84 to replace rosedale X63 LIRR adds free transfer.

 

QM18 DUPLICATED Q10 YET ISN'T FASTER. Merge X68 with QM1 via rerouting X68 to 188th street Service on hillside west of 188th DISCONTINUED.

[via White Plains Road]

these need to get CUT

 

BM4 , BXM4 DUPLICATED BX1/2 LTD AND 4 AND D TRAINS.

 

QM3 NO ONE USES IT QM3 COSTS 200 PER MONTH WITH XBUS PLUS LIRR TO LITTLE NECK COSTS $193 $7 CHEAPER YET 3 TIMES FASTER.

 

X64 AND X63. Extend Q84 to replace rosedale X63 LIRR adds free transfer.

 

QM18 DUPLICATED Q10 YET ISN'T FASTER. Merge X68 with QM1 via rerouting X68 to 188th street Service on hillside west of 188th DISCONTINUED.

 

Hmmm that makes no sense.... BxM4 do not duplicate the and lines. The Bx2 is no longer a Limited and runs over Jerome Avenue. BM4 is Brooklyn express route not a Bronx express route. QM18 do not duplicate the Q10 b/c if it did....it would ran near the airport. QM3, X63 and X64 are only rush hour routes.....so extending the Q84 to Rosedale makes no sense. And what this got to do with LIB?

[qjtransitmaster]

Hey you qjtrainmaster how dare you say the other members 'suck. Talk about someone being rude as a new member. We don't play the insult game here. It's ok to disagree but to call people on a website you don't know that they 'suck' as way off base.:tdown:

 

That wasn't what I meant I meant the service proposal MTA made and how some ppl dont care about their transit network with gas going up we need LIB more than ever.

[qjtransitmaster]

Hmmm that makes no sense.... BxM4 do not duplicate the and lines. The Bx2 is no longer a Limited and runs over Jerome Avenue. BM4 is Brooklyn express route not a Bronx express route. QM18 do not duplicate the Q10 b/c if it did....it would ran near the airport. QM3, X63 and X64 are only rush hour routes.....so extending the Q84 to Rosedale makes no sense. And what this got to do with LIB?

 

BXM4 runs along grandconcorse and is not faster than the D train that is under grandconcorse the BXM 4 goes to woodlawn from manhattan the 4 is faster and the BX34 does the same thing from woodlawn and even the D train. The QM 18 runs mostly on lefferts blvd competing with Q10 LTD and it's unique segment is served by Q37 this bus does nothing others don't do. Plus when I observed one on queens blvd it was almost empty. The Qm3 duplicated the LIRR AND COSTS MORE PER MONTH IS LESS FREQUENT AND SLOWER!!!!!! LIRR costs $193 for zone 3 stations like little neck and rosedale express metro is $50 per week that adds up to $200 a month!!!!! As for My LIB Idea comment on it. I brought up express buses due to their higher costs per passenger and it's fustrating to see the helpful buses get cut while buses no one uses continue to run and no one says a word. The worst example of waste is the N20 short trips that end at great neck LIRR I have used them and my LI friends use them they tell me they are mostly EMPTY. The N20 trips that get ppl are the roslyn and hicksville runs during the day. Look at the students there.

[Burrstone]

"Is it really? I'd love to see some figures... How much does adding cars? Extra conductors? Does it use more fuel/electric to operate these routes? For a $2.75 ticket are you really saving by cutting buses like the N19?"

 

Adding, say, 2 cars doesn't consume as much electricity as a bus would consume fuel.

 

"All these buses driving? How much does a conductor make? I'd assume close to or more than a LIB bus driver?"

 

Who says an extra conductor is needed? There are already about 2-3 conductors on the train in rush hour, isn't that more than enough? It sure is more than here in The Netherlands, even on long trains.

 

"How much does it cost to maintain addition cars on a train?"

 

How much does it cost to maintain loads of buses?

 

"Platforms are only so long and at rush hours, even at rush hours some Babylon line trains are 12 long requiring some passengers at some stations to move to other cars to exit. If you add more cars to trains will passengers coming on and getting off in these types of stations move to other cars to get out of the way and re-enter cars that platform when it is time for their stop? Or will they stay on the cars that platform, overcrowding them?"

 

There are already cars out of service in operating trains. Can give you a lot of videos on YouTube where you can see cars out of service in an operating (scheduled) train, even in rush hour. So there would be no difference.

 

"Peak trains on the Babylon line are already overcrowded! So much so that I'd rather not pay so much to be packed in there like cattle, and take the bus (that goes past my house, not a 15-20 walk to LIRR, and I'm closer than many "on" the Babylon line)...."

 

If they add more cars, that'll relieve the crowds.

And for your walk, we're (you and I) only talking about the N19 here. Not any other line, just the N19.

 

"I couldn't imagine packing more people on peak Babylon line trains, even you added two cars. Mixing all these riders seems like you'd really have to overhall the schedule as many peak trains go express skipping many stops as it is set up to shuttle people into the city in the morning and back in the afternoon/evening, NOT for local service..."

 

But local service is possible, so why not? If they just add a few local trains to the existing express trains, than it's possible.

 

"Some people don't understand you cannot equate a lirr car to a subway car... There is not as much room to stand as a subway car. Just a little room by the doors, and the isles. lol yea ok...."

 

But there is more seating than on a subway car. There's even 3x2 seats in a row. So that's a lot of seating. The extra seating makes up for the standing.

 

"As I said the trains are packed! You want to add passengers? What makes you think the LIRR will add cars?"

 

What makes you think they won't add extra cars? You think they're cold-hearted at the MTA, cutting bus service and let people suffer? I'm pretty sure they come up with an alternative for the stranded bus passengers, which would make it logical to have longer trains on the LIRR (still talking about the N19 here, but could be the same for every other bus line that travels big parts near the LIRR).

 

I refuse to argue over pretend time, and I'm sorry that I did...

 

You seem to have all the answers for any problem or concern anyone raises that doesn't support your proposed changes or cuts.

 

You have a fairytale or dream answer for what you feel the solution is, but very little (if any) of it seems to based on facts.

 

Ok, sure I'll take your word that adding a car or two will use less electric than a bus would use fuel, I know nothing about that. BUT after axing bus routes how much will unemployment cost the MTA, would they offer early retirement to get people out the door? Will they offer a severance package? Can you offer us any data that running a car or two more on the LIRR will cost less with these variables?

 

What about the concerns others have that LIRR trains are commuter trains and cannot support what you are proposing? Packing all these people in there with nothing really to hold on to is dangerous. One person falls and sues the MTA for over crowing trains, over looking safety, and there goes your savings...

 

I'm glad you feel that the current amount of conductors will be enough even if you add more cars and more passengers. I wonder how the union feels about the idea of keeping the same amount of conductors and increasing the work load on them?

 

As far as putting cars out of service on operating trains, I'm glad that works over there, but people are kind of set in their ways out here, as a matter of fact I volunteer you to be a conductor on a few test runs for this. You can work a Friday Night Bablylon train, you can put some cars out of service once you get a little out east, see how that works for you. I'm sure during your day you'll have fun explaining to people why they are packed into the train. Tell them this was all your idea... Oh and I can't wait to see you telling the conductors the idea of increasing their workload was your idea.

 

I'd pay good money to see you work the test run for that!

 

All in all, I'd say you'd be a very popular guy out on Long Island! B)

[qjtransitmaster]

I refuse to argue over pretend time, and I'm sorry that I did...

 

You seem to have all the answers for any problem or concern anyone raises that doesn't support your proposed changes or cuts.

 

You have a fairytale or dream answer for what you feel the solution is, but very little (if any) of it seems to based on facts.

 

Ok, sure I'll take your word that adding a car or two will use less electric than a bus would use fuel, I know nothing about that. BUT after axing bus routes how much will unemployment cost the MTA, would they offer early retirement to get people out the door? Will they offer a severance package? Can you offer us any data that running a car or two more on the LIRR will cost less with these variables?

 

What about the concerns others have that LIRR trains are commuter trains and cannot support what you are proposing? Packing all these people in there with nothing really to hold on to is dangerous. One person falls and sues the MTA for over crowing trains, over looking safety, and there goes your savings...

 

I'm glad you feel that the current amount of conductors will be enough even if you add more cars and more passengers. I wonder how the union feels about the idea of keeping the same amount of conductors and increasing the work load on them?

 

As far as putting cars out of service on operating trains, I'm glad that works over there, but people are kind of set in their ways out here, as a matter of fact I volunteer you to be a conductor on a few test runs for this. You can work a Friday Night Bablylon train, you can put some cars out of service once you get a little out east, see how that works for you. I'm sure during your day you'll have fun explaining to people why they are packed into the train. Tell them this was all your idea... Oh and I can't wait to see you telling the conductors the idea of increasing their workload was your idea.

 

I'd pay good money to see you work the test run for that!

 

All in all, I'd say you'd be a very popular guy out on Long Island! B)

 

AGREED LIB rte porposed to get axed run NORTH AND SOUTH NOT EAST-WEST The LIRR CAN'T ACCOMIDATE ONE GOING FROM WANTAGH TO HICKSVILLE OR A TRAVELLER WHO USED THOSE BUSES!!!!!!!! The LIRR will lose as those rtes feed the LIRR from neighborhoods but due to infrequent service they can't cater to commuters who work in NYC the buses run hourly. They need to be tailored to LIRR passengers. Therefore that's why the ridership was low cause the buses only accomidated the poor not those who travel or those who need to catch the LIRR from their home to get to a party or visitors they grid the network of LI transit service but their schedule lacks the flexibility to attract riders as most LI ppl travel during AM and Evening hours and night hours on saturday and friday and on days with events or games. A lack. And suffolk transit also indirectly hurts LIB. Cause ppl going from suffolk to nassau who aren't close to an LIRR station nor destination served directly by LIB from LIRR station have to drive cause the suffolk rte by their location is BAD. LI is connected suffolk and nassau need to work together to make a network thats not just for those without cars but to go green and get ppl out of cars who can afford to drive but transit needs to compete and show them convenience.

[qjtransitmaster]

If the decided to can both local bus service (i.e. (M5)) and express bus service that "paralleled" the subway, the subway system would be put under severe strain. They can barely keep the subway system running as it is now, so it's far from apples and oranges. Both the express bus and the local bus have an important role in keeping the subway system running.

 

In the case of the LIRR, yes, you're right to a degree.

 

in a certain way no as most duplicated with a few exceptions like B25 being an exception have little ridership look at BXM4 at rush hr some are just 5 ppl. The B39 before getting axed was empty when I used it. also several manhattan buses like M50 and M20 were deserted except when tourists fill it so they can see the buildings. The MTA needs to market transit as a service like sightseeing to make the duplicate rtes more appealing. and Make fun of the flaws of driving make fun of LIE traffic and $10 gas make ppl want to use transit get under their skin like LA is trying with their marketing campaign.

[qjtransitmaster]

I was riding the N4 yesterday from Freeport to Jamaica and the driver announced (after many ppl on the bus kept questioning/commenting like sheep whenever an N4 shows up late on Merrick Rd. "Why is the bus late, is this the X:xx bus, what happened to that one... OMG, blah blah blah") that "...this is it, the bus before me is a no go, the bus after me is a no go, and that's the way it's gunna be... It's not going to get any better..."

 

Usually these 3 buses leave minutes in between each in the AM... We usually pass one, maybe the one in front of that . Let all the suckers fight to get on the packed bus in freeport that the us I usually takes usually passes that one and gets into Jamaica first... Uh, I guess we'll all be suckers getting on the packed bus, making lots of stops... It looks like it will take longer to get to Jamaica in the morning and will be much more uncomfortable ride in the morning with less buses on that run.... B)

 

N4 isn't on the reduction block!!!!!

[lilbluefoxie]

Take over long beach bus BY FORCE!!!! A fragmented bus network encourages SPRAWL!!!!!! Long beach bus does more harm than good for long beach residents as it requires those to pay separate fares from LIB most wont pay and will only drive!!!!!!!! This leaves transfering between LB buses and LIB MTA impractical.

 

Long Beach, and neighboring Atlantic Beach and Lido Beach are on their own land mass thats seperate from the rest of long island. Long Beach Bus is designed to operate local bus routes within the city of long beach. If people need to get off Long Beach they'll drive.

 

If someone has a car, whats more convienient to go somewhere like Nassau or Roosevelt Field. Takeing 2-3 buses and hoping your transfers are timed right, or just getting in your car and driving there?

 

Long Beach does enough on its own to make it a horrible place to drive or go to with how the traffic lights are set up and the ridiculously low speed limits.

 

I doubt there will be any sprawl in Long Beach, its not a very big place to begin with and its pretty much developed.

[qjtransitmaster]

Long Beach, and neighboring Atlantic Beach and Lido Beach are on their own land mass thats seperate from the rest of long island. Long Beach Bus is designed to operate local bus routes within the city of long beach. If people need to get off Long Beach they'll drive.

 

If someone has a car, whats more convienient to go somewhere like Nassau or Roosevelt Field. Takeing 2-3 buses and hoping your transfers are timed right, or just getting in your car and driving there?

 

Long Beach does enough on its own to make it a horrible place to drive or go to with how the traffic lights are set up and the ridiculously low speed limits.

 

I doubt there will be any sprawl in Long Beach, its not a very big place to begin with and its pretty much developed.

 

That was why they should get taken over cause if MTA rtes did the same thing ppl would be more likely to use it. Most LB ppl who use transit use either LIB or LIRR due to fare incompatibilities it actually makes it harder to get off the island via transit contributing to car culture look at WHAT FRAGMENTATION DID TO LA!!!!!! LOOK AT THE DIFFERENT TOWN BUSES IN A MAJOR CITY!!!! That makes info hard and ppl want easy if transit isn't easy it won't be used !!!!!! Even if it is frequent!!!!! there are times and places for transfers LB isn't one that encourages this!!!!!! In LA even a bus fan would have a hard time learning thew system as they have to adjust to several manincipal bus rtes!!!!!! small town buses do more bad than good when it comes to getting ppl to be energy efficient. It creates complication that turns ppl away from transit thus hurting other transit buses in the area due to lack of unified information system. If LBI let MTA in there would be less driving as ppl already know MTA and MTA leaves the island allowing ppl to have a good alternative to driving for leaving the island. LOOK at the disaster THAT IS POUGHKEEPSIE AND DUTCHESS LOOP UNCOORDINATED MESS!!!!!! However Ulster reduces this problem by complementing trailways and feeding into trailways and avoiding duplication They feed to metro-north too. They are called UCAT.

[qjtransitmaster]

Long Beach, and neighboring Atlantic Beach and Lido Beach are on their own land mass thats seperate from the rest of long island. Long Beach Bus is designed to operate local bus routes within the city of long beach. If people need to get off Long Beach they'll drive.

 

If someone has a car, whats more convienient to go somewhere like Nassau or Roosevelt Field. Takeing 2-3 buses and hoping your transfers are timed right, or just getting in your car and driving there?

 

Long Beach does enough on its own to make it a horrible place to drive or go to with how the traffic lights are set up and the ridiculously low speed limits.

 

I doubt there will be any sprawl in Long Beach, its not a very big place to begin with and its pretty much developed.

 

that was what I meant they make travel disconnected and hellish!!!!! For motorists and transit users !!!!! I loath them so much the only bus I hate more is NJ oceanride if u been to toms river you know how bad they are!!!! The WORST TRUST ME. The LB buses cater to almost no one but the poor!!!! A failure of a transit network just as Clarkstown weakens Rockland's transit. Sorry for getting off-topic but I used them all so I learned the transit buses.

[Shortline Bus]

That wasn't what I meant I meant the service proposal MTA made and how some ppl dont care about their transit network with gas going up we need LIB more than ever.

 

 

Oh ok.:confused: My bad. Still be carefully and fully aware what you say/type here as it could assumed as an 'insult' and start a flame war(argument)for no reason.

[Cait Sith]

All the MTA proposal here sucks worse than any MTA cut plan I saw so far Here is a real one if the MTA doesn't want to anger nassau I know it is mostly nassau's fault though

 

N6 is a profitable route but other rtes there go to hempstead that lose money too. It can be split in to 4 to 5 parts.

 

 

N6 BELLMORE VIA ROOSEVELT FIELD This variation will go through charles lindburgh to merrick ave it will travel via east meadow ave replacing N46.

 

N7 will extend to Travel to Bellmore via prospect ave replacing part of the N46 then going to sunrise Mall and amityville LIRR via newbridge ave and sunrise Hwy.

 

N9 extends to sunrise mall via merrick rd Replacing N19 and N50 via merrick ave and bellmore ave. Timed transfers will be made with other rtes there. N4 extends to bellmore for interlining purposes SOME N4 TRIPS WILL BECOME N74/73.

 

N10/11 will replace N55/54 extra service at rush hour to accomidate LIRR passengers from babylon line. This can be done with leftover N6 ltd trips.

 

I can save N79/78 and 58 but that's a secret.

 

N71 extends to babylon replacing N19 suffolk segment.

 

N40/41 will replace N88 and N74/73 extend to long beach via jones beach theatre.

 

 

N33 gets combined with select Q113 ltd trips and Q22 trips but to keep costs down Q22 EXTENDS TO LONG BEACH REPLACING N33.

 

 

Take over long beach bus BY FORCE!!!! A fragmented bus network encourages SPRAWL!!!!!! Long beach bus does more harm than good for long beach residents as it requires those to pay separate fares from LIB most wont pay and will only drive!!!!!!!! This leaves transfering between LB buses and LIB MTA impractical.

 

ALL N20 TRIPS EXTEND TO HICKSVILLE BUT TRIPS ORIGINATING AND ENDING AT GREAT NECK LIRR DISCONTINUED!!! However N20 will still serve Great neck LIRR!!!! The extention can reuse N20 trips on N80 or 81

 

N36 used for interlineing purposes to shift buses from lynbrook via N31 and N25 to freeport so they can become N41 or N43 without deadheading thus reducing non-revenue runs. between the hubs. N36 is preserved but as the extention of N25 which can change into an N41 or N43 or go back to jamacia as N4.

 

The rest I will mention via a typed document MY PROPOSAL IF USED CAN KILL OFF ALL THE CUTS AND SAVE MTA MONEY AS WELL.

 

these need to get CUT

 

BM4 , BXM4 DUPLICATED BX1/2 LTD AND 4 AND D TRAINS.

 

QM3 NO ONE USES IT QM3 COSTS 200 PER MONTH WITH XBUS PLUS LIRR TO LITTLE NECK COSTS $193 $7 CHEAPER YET 3 TIMES FASTER.

 

X64 AND X63. Extend Q84 to replace rosedale X63 LIRR adds free transfer.

 

QM18 DUPLICATED Q10 YET ISN'T FASTER. Merge X68 with QM1 via rerouting X68 to 188th street Service on hillside west of 188th DISCONTINUED.

 

Ok Jackass, since you like to say how everyone else's proposals are trash, let's piece through this disaster of a proposal.

 

N6 : Makes little to no sense.

 

N33/Q22 : NEVER going to happen, you can't extend the Q22 to that area and where are you going to get the money for such an extension?

 

Taking over Long Beach Bus by force? #1 sign of stupidity. It takes MONEY to take over a bus company, jackass.

 

The N20 proposal sounds 10/90. Mostly sounds stupid as hell with an ounce of goodness.

 

Now this is where you have no knowledge of any of these routes at all. Your stupidity shows in such a great deal on here

 

BxM4 runs along Grand Concourse, sure, but does the run to 242nd Street in Woodlawn? NO! The BxM4 goes farther than the line AND the line

 

How the **** do you know that no one uses the QM3? Every time I see the QM3 in Manhattan, it is FULL with 90% of the seats all filled.

 

Ha, cutting the x63 and x64? Really? Ridership on all the Queens Village Express Routes are pretty high up there, let me see you try to supplement service to the areas that has little to no bus service.

 

This is where your stupidity just shines right here. The QM18 does not duplicate anything. The QM18 is a replacement for the line and does NOT duplicate the Q10 in anyway whatsoever. Ridership on the line has increased since the service cuts so I dont know where you got this bullshit from.

 

Merge the x68 with the QM1? Do you realize that these are two DIFFERENT routes that goes to TWO DIFFERENT locations? By merging it, you are removing ONE MAJOR NEIGHBORHOOD that either one of these lines go to. Dumbass proposal right there.

 

You really gotta re-evaluate your proposals and your posts in general before you make one live on here, jackass.

[Shortline Bus]

Cait hey relax. This guy has made a semi apology above. Still he should offer a more formal apology to all of us though.

 

 

Ok Jackass, since you like to say how everyone else's proposals are trash, let's piece through this disaster of a proposal.

 

N6 : Makes little to no sense.

 

N33/Q22 : NEVER going to happen, you can't extend the Q22 to that area and where are you going to get the money for such an extension?

 

Taking over Long Beach Bus by force? #1 sign of stupidity. It takes MONEY to take over a bus company, jackass.

 

The N20 proposal sounds 10/90. Mostly sounds stupid as hell with an ounce of goodness.

 

Now this is where you have no knowledge of any of these routes at all. Your stupidity shows in such a great deal on here

 

BxM4 runs along Grand Concourse, sure, but does the run to 242nd Street in Woodlawn? NO! The BxM4 goes farther than the line AND the line

 

How the **** do you know that no one uses the QM3? Every time I see the QM3 in Manhattan, it is FULL with 90% of the seats all filled.

 

Ha, cutting the x63 and x64? Really? Ridership on all the Queens Village Express Routes are pretty high up there, let me see you try to supplement service to the areas that has little to no bus service.

 

This is where your stupidity just shines right here. The QM18 does not duplicate anything. The QM18 is a replacement for the line and does NOT duplicate the Q10 in anyway whatsoever. Ridership on the line has increased since the service cuts so I dont know where you got this bullshit from.

 

Merge the x68 with the QM1? Do you realize that these are two DIFFERENT routes that goes to TWO DIFFERENT locations? By merging it, you are removing ONE MAJOR NEIGHBORHOOD that either one of these lines go to. Dumbass proposal right there.

 

You really gotta re-evaluate your proposals and your posts in general before you make one live on here, jackass.

[Cait Sith]

Cait hey relax. This guy has made a semi apology above. Still he should offer a more formal apology to all of us though.

 

Perhaps he did, but that was pretty ******* disrespectful.

[Shortline Bus]

Perhaps he did, but that was pretty ******* disrespectful.

 

Agree bro(Caith). Feel the same way.B)

[lilbluefoxie]

That was why they should get taken over cause if MTA rtes did the same thing ppl would be more likely to use it. Most LB ppl who use transit use either LIB or LIRR due to fare incompatibilities it actually makes it harder to get off the island via transit contributing to car culture look at WHAT FRAGMENTATION DID TO LA!!!!!! LOOK AT THE DIFFERENT TOWN BUSES IN A MAJOR CITY!!!! That makes info hard and ppl want easy if transit isn't easy it won't be used !!!!!! Even if it is frequent!!!!! there are times and places for transfers LB isn't one that encourages this!!!!!! In LA even a bus fan would have a hard time learning thew system as they have to adjust to several manincipal bus rtes!!!!!! small town buses do more bad than good when it comes to getting ppl to be energy efficient. It creates complication that turns ppl away from transit thus hurting other transit buses in the area due to lack of unified information system. If LBI let MTA in there would be less driving as ppl already know MTA and MTA leaves the island allowing ppl to have a good alternative to driving for leaving the island. LOOK at the disaster THAT IS POUGHKEEPSIE AND DUTCHESS LOOP UNCOORDINATED MESS!!!!!! However Ulster reduces this problem by complementing trailways and feeding into trailways and avoiding duplication They feed to metro-north too. They are called UCAT.

 

Long Beach bus is designed for local trips within nassau, and there are 2 LIB routes serving long beach, so wheres the problem? Long Island is not New York city, theres a different clientele to cater to when designing bus routes. The reason those western Nassau routes do so well is because those towns are densely populated and they resemble Queens neighborhoods, and theres more likely to be people without cars there. East of Hempstead its more suburban and spread out and there's more money so people have cars, even older ones, and it remains that driving is more convenient than contending with half-hour to hourly bus service to go within Nassau.

 

As for Dutchess county, its located in the far reaches of suburbia, Poughkipsee is far north enough to be its own city and has its own bus service, with the mission of serving poughkipsee, not people living in the boonies trying to commute to NYC

[qjtransitmaster]

 

perhaps he did, but that was pretty ******* disrespectful.

you misread what i meant !!!! I wasn't bashing anyone other than the mta reread my post for details!!!!