Trainmaster5 Posted March 9, 2011 Share #26 Posted March 9, 2011 Even on some non-NTTs (R42s have the enablers as well). Point well taken but I was trying to bring out the scenario that if the doors weren't enabled there wouldn't be this problem. Quite frankly, if the C/R was operating as per school car this still shouldn't have happened. Instead you now have 2 people hanging by a very slim thread. A piss-poor job by all which will invariably bring the weight down on ALL train crews, not just this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
553 Bridgeton Posted March 9, 2011 Share #27 Posted March 9, 2011 True, but seeing the pictures all they would have fallen to was the yellow grating like 2 feet.... Thats not the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m7zanr160s Posted March 9, 2011 Share #28 Posted March 9, 2011 I'm always looking out the door windows when exciting a train. No one should fall out. You gotta know that the train and the platform are not attached. It's the whole "watch the gap" issue all over again, kind of. Watch where you're going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopsicleXGirl Posted March 9, 2011 Share #29 Posted March 9, 2011 this was just gross negligence on the crew's part, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. they are damn lucky that no one got hurt or worse... killed, then losing their job would be the least of their problems. to say this situation causes no danger because passengers should be watching where they are going is just ridiculous. and this is coming from a transit worker. some of you really need to get your head out of the MTA's ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgor Posted March 9, 2011 Share #30 Posted March 9, 2011 It really disturbs me how some people posted in defense of the MTA and said that it the passengers' fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted March 9, 2011 Share #31 Posted March 9, 2011 Prevent injuries and lawsuits. Conductors have to know if they are on the right position to open doors, safely. Obviously, something is very wrong. I wondor did the T/O stop at the 6 car marker and press that punch box? That crew is really in deep water. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_and_call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrainFanatic Posted March 9, 2011 Share #32 Posted March 9, 2011 Judging by the replys, I guess I already knew the answer to my own question. Surly you can just look at the board and assure, but is the pointing really necessary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopsicleXGirl Posted March 9, 2011 Share #33 Posted March 9, 2011 Judging by the replys, I guess I already knew the answer to my own question. Surly you can just look at the board and assure, but is the pointing really necessary? it is necessary so that supervision who are observing us can visually see C/R's acknowledging the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousNYLover Posted March 9, 2011 Share #34 Posted March 9, 2011 That is way dangerous. I agree is mostly crowded during rush hour. If people with Ipod was listening to loud music with headphone, and if that guy/girl was first one, they might have fallen to street. I remember when I was on TOR#59 in Rockland County, I was in front seat by front door, and he opened his bus door as he speed down Rte. 59 to Community College. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrainFanatic Posted March 9, 2011 Share #35 Posted March 9, 2011 it is necessary so that supervision who are observing us can visually see C/R's acknowledging the board. There's the better answer I was looking for. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr4567 Posted March 9, 2011 Share #36 Posted March 9, 2011 Wow. Were both crew members on that train really not paying attention? True, but seeing the pictures all they would have fallen to was the yellow grating like 2 feet.... That's not a 2 foot drop. Try more in between 6 1/4 feet and 7 feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousNYLover Posted March 9, 2011 Share #37 Posted March 9, 2011 If that incident happened at Smith-9th Sts, and no one was paying attention, that could be devastating. If I was on it, I would definally going to be scared!! I still remember video of crowded MNRR with door open was very scary when I watch it and I though passengers might fall down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted March 9, 2011 Share #38 Posted March 9, 2011 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Posted March 9, 2011 Share #39 Posted March 9, 2011 "I remember when I was on TOR#59 in Rockland County, I was in front seat by front door, and he opened his bus door as he speed down Rte. 59 to Community College." On a lot of the NJ Transit buses I ride, TONS of drivers open up the door as the bus is pulling into the bus stop even while someone is standing by the fare box waiting to get off. Then, instead of waiting for the door to fully close before pulling out, they pull out while the door is in the process of closing. How these drivers have their job is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr4567 Posted March 9, 2011 Share #40 Posted March 9, 2011 it's about 3 feet to four feet from the car floor to the trackbed. for the drop to be 6 feet, the trucks would need to be almost as large as the cars... Now that I think about it, you're right. Just put it like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis1985 Posted March 9, 2011 Share #41 Posted March 9, 2011 smh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted March 9, 2011 Share #42 Posted March 9, 2011 Judging by the replys, I guess I already knew the answer to my own question. Surly you can just look at the board and assure, but is the pointing really necessary? In the case of Marcy Av, you pretty much have to look. If the C/R was lined up at the R42 board, then s/he is a whole car length off. If s/he wasn't even lined up at either board, then s/he shouldve alerted the T/O ASAP. Its also negligence on the T/O part since s/he undershot the platform by that much and was probably able to hit the 2nd punchbox behind the one you're supposed to line up with at that station, PLUS hit the enabler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted March 9, 2011 Share #43 Posted March 9, 2011 I think those here who are defending these employees do not understand the concept of enablers. An enabler must be activated by the Train Operator before the Conductor opens the doors. If the Train Operator does not enable his/her Conductor the doors cannot open no matter what the conductor does. The Train Operator is at the front of the train and is surely going to be the first person on the planet to realize the train has overshot the mark. Knowing that, there is no excuse for enabling the Conductor once the T/O knows that one or more doors of the train are out of the station. It is a dangerous safety risk on a number of levels and a number of situations that can come up not the least of which is someone basically stepping off a cliff to the street below. The Conductor has a responsibility to point to the board because it allows supervision to see the Conductor paying attention to the marker. Atypical boards are marked "R40/R42" "6" (car marker) etc. The Conductor's job is to know which board is the right board and make sure before opening the doors that he/she is in the right spot regardless of what the Train Operator does. If off the mark, do not open. Both employees failed to do their jobs, which is a serious issue. Someone could have gotten hurt. And this is coming from someone who hates the nanny state, hates frivolous lawsuits, and hates society's bubble wrap. So if I'm saying that there must be some merit to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGerald Posted March 9, 2011 Share #44 Posted March 9, 2011 There are some stations that are longer than others, even though there are stop makers, zebra boards, and punch boxes. In such stations, where the station is longer than the trains being used, there is less danger to the passengers if the train is not in the exact spot that it is supposed to be in. There are some stations which just fit the exact length of the train, and careful stopping at certain positions is needed. There is no lee-way. In such cases, not being at the correct spot can be dangerous to the riders. There are some underground stations where the ends of the station tamper an angle - where there is some platform left - even if the train is off position by a few feet. --------- The more that this issue is talked about, and the more detail provided - the more I'm convinced that the train operator and conductor are in very big trouble. They are lucky that no one was hurt or killed by this happening. This is not a "Watch The Gap" situation, or the fault of any of the riders in any way shape or form. Through countless trips for years on the subways - the riders have come to expect that when the doors open that there will be a platform on the other side of the door. Only the quick thinking of a rider prevented a tragedy. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted March 9, 2011 Share #45 Posted March 9, 2011 I think those here who are defending these employees do not understand the concept of enablers. An enabler must be activated by the Train Operator before the Conductor opens the doors. If the Train Operator does not enable his/her Conductor the doors cannot open no matter what the conductor does. The Train Operator is at the front of the train and is surely going to be the first person on the planet to realize the train has overshot the mark. Knowing that, there is no excuse for enabling the Conductor once the T/O knows that one or more doors of the train are out of the station. It is a dangerous safety risk on a number of levels and a number of situations that can come up not the least of which is someone basically stepping off a cliff to the street below. The Conductor has a responsibility to point to the board because it allows supervision to see the Conductor paying attention to the marker. Atypical boards are marked "R40/R42" "6" (car marker) etc. The Conductor's job is to know which board is the right board and make sure before opening the doors that he/she is in the right spot regardless of what the Train Operator does. If off the mark, do not open. Both employees failed to do their jobs, which is a serious issue. Someone could have gotten hurt. And this is coming from someone who hates the nanny state, hates frivolous lawsuits, and hates society's bubble wrap. So if I'm saying that there must be some merit to it. Very well put. You and MikeGerald hit the nail on the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Far Rock Depot Posted March 9, 2011 Share #46 Posted March 9, 2011 Both MikeG and SubwayGuy are 100% correct! Marcy Ave has 3 markers w/punch Boxes. an 8 car train stopping on the 6 marker will have the c/r position on a NTT line up with the 8 car R42 board leaving the last 3 doors of the last car un-platformed. Both t/o and c/r are at fault! the T/O stopped short by a marker! How could he have missed all of that platform ahead of him. (M)'s even when OPTO never run 6 cars! as for the C/R, pointing is routine now but they still need to READ the boards!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoSpectacular Posted March 9, 2011 Share #47 Posted March 9, 2011 Looks like some mofos are getting fired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w8Hou Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share #48 Posted March 9, 2011 There is an update, the crew from the train incident has been remove from service: http://www.ny1.com/content/news_beats/transit/135264/mta-to-remove-crew-following-m-train-incident/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilbluefoxie Posted March 10, 2011 Share #49 Posted March 10, 2011 Both MikeG and SubwayGuy are 100% correct! Marcy Ave has 3 markers w/punch Boxes. an 8 car train stopping on the 6 marker will have the c/r position on a NTT line up with the 8 car R42 board leaving the last 3 doors of the last car un-platformed. Both t/o and c/r are at fault! the T/O stopped short by a marker! How could he have missed all of that platform ahead of him. (M)'s even when OPTO never run 6 cars! as for the C/R, pointing is routine now but they still need to READ the boards!! why would they even have a 6 car conductor board up there anyway, no cars operate in sets of 6 anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w8Hou Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share #50 Posted March 10, 2011 why would they even have a 6 car conductor board up there anyway, no cars operate in sets of 6 anymore MTA is lazy and they are broke to remove the boards and signs. They still havent remove all the R110-B boards to this date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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