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Subway Doors Open Before Car Reaches Elevated Platform @ Marcy Av


w8Hou

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(M) Shuttle is supposed to stop at OPTO but Ive seen T/O's not really give a care where they stop

 

yes, Ive seen where once at Fresh Pond Road he stopped at the 4 car marker, people were dashing down the platform to catch the train and the doors closed to soon. I thought that was really mean what the T/O did. Then again he was running OPTO so he had to close the doors quickly, but he should have stopped on the OPTO stop car marker.

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This is fresh off the incident report... the crew is indeed out of service and yes the T/O is in trouble. The C/R is not. In a reinactment of the incident, it was shown the T/O stopped at the 6 car marker, where there is a punch (Local/Express, as it was rush hour). The C/R was in fact on a board, but it was not labeled R42 like it was supposed to. Other than visual cues (which the MTA says is not supposed to be used in conductor operation when there is a board in front of you) there was no way for him to know he wasn't at his proper board. Other than OoS until the investigation is complete, no further trouble for the C/R.

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This is fresh off the incident report... the crew is indeed out of service and yes the T/O is in trouble. The C/R is not. In a reinactment of the incident, it was shown the T/O stopped at the 6 car marker, where there is a punch (Local/Express, as it was rush hour). The C/R was in fact on a board, but it was not labeled R42 like it was supposed to. Other than visual cues (which the MTA says is not supposed to be used in conductor operation when there is a board in front of you) there was no way for him to know he wasn't at his proper board. Other than OoS until the investigation is complete, no further trouble for the C/R.

 

Sure sounds like good news for one person. Now they'll probably go after some TSS or another person for not noticing that the C/Rs board had missing or improper documentation. Someone in supervision is probably feeling very nervous tonight.

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Sure sounds like good news for one person. Now they'll probably go after some TSS or another person for not noticing that the C/Rs board had missing or improper documentation. Someone in supervision is probably feeling very nervous tonight.

 

Signals. Its signals board and 6 car marker that has no business being there.

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Signals. Its signals board and 6 car marker that has no business being there.

You're absolutely correct about the signal department. What I was getting at is the RTO supervisor(s) assigned to that section or line who are supposedly checking out the train crews' operation and such. I used to have a few A division TSSs and ,rarely, supers checking out the signals, platforms, roadbeds, lighting almost every day. I'm just surprised that no one higher up noticed this board until now. Since the C/Rs don't normally use this board they can't be held responsible for not noticing the improper board.

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Both are 8 car boards, so they do not need a number labeling them as such. But since the c/r position varies between the 160 and 42, each board between Broad and Parsons and on the Myrtle line up to Metropolitan (in case of emergency reroute) should have its respective car class printed on it. When the stations were redone they put new fiberglass boards up instead of the wood (or whatever) ones that were up there, and some have the car class labels some do not. Also, when lines moved away from married pairs all the [4] and [6] should have been taken down as well. [6] should only remain on the Culver, QB and Crosstown trunks. All [4] should be taken down as well as all trains that can platform at the [4] are OPTO and stop at the [OPTO S]. So while the T/O will be hung, signals must take heat for this as well.

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In May 1996, I was on my way home from work, riding a Queens-bound (E) train (R-32). I was standing near the last set of doors, on the left side, as the train was pulling into West 4th Street. The train stopped, from what it seemed like inside the car, in the tunnel. The doors on the left side all opened up. Luckily this happened at around 12:30 A.M.; so the train was nearly empty. Anyway, the doors stayed opened for about two minutes before they were closed. About five minutes into this adventure, an announcement was made for the passengers in the last three cars to walk up and exit from the car with opened doors. The T/O stopped the train three cars short of the station. There was a mob of MTA personnel on the platform surrounding the conductor's car investigating the situation; and, it looked like the crew was relieved of duty at the scene.

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This happened to me once. I was with my ex-girl on the M train back in the late 90s, we were stopped a 100 or so feet before the middle village, metropolitan ave station and the doors just opened up, stayed open for a minute and then closed.

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The C/R was in fact on a board, but it was not labeled R42 like it was supposed to. Other than visual cues (which the MTA says is not supposed to be used in conductor operation when there is a board in front of you) there was no way for him to know he wasn't at his proper board. Other than OoS until the investigation is complete, no further trouble for the C/R.

 

So a C/R is really just supposed to make sure he/she is stopped right next to a board before opening the doors? I would think the C/R should have to visually confirm that all the cars are lined up with the platform before opening the doors by looking out the little window thing in the cab.

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yes, Ive seen where once at Fresh Pond Road he stopped at the 4 car marker, people were dashing down the platform to catch the train and the doors closed to soon. I thought that was really mean what the T/O did. Then again he was running OPTO so he had to close the doors quickly, but he should have stopped on the OPTO stop car marker.

 

A lot of the OPTO weekend T/Os really don't care where they stop, many of them just go into full service by the yellow OPTO marker so they can open the doors quickly, sometimes overshooting it by a good several feet.

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A lot of the OPTO weekend T/Os really don't care where they stop, many of them just go into full service by the yellow OPTO marker so they can open the doors quickly, sometimes overshooting it by a good several feet.

 

Not good.

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sorry but i feel as if they are making a big deal over nothing really. Okay so the C/R made a mistake. It just seems as if the woman who was affected wanted some TV time and decided to call NY1. Sorry but mistakes happen. Sure there maybe 2 boards. Still. At least no one was hurt and the fall can be fatal if there was no walkway, but there was still a cat walk. Sorry thats just my take

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sorry but i feel as if they are making a big deal over nothing really. Okay so the C/R made a mistake. It just seems as if the woman who was affected wanted some TV time and decided to call NY1. Sorry but mistakes happen. Sure there maybe 2 boards. Still. At least no one was hurt and the fall can be fatal if there was no walkway, but there was still a cat walk. Sorry thats just my take

 

That's a pretty large drop from train to catwalk... and that fence right next to the catwalk is so sparsely designed that someone could easily fall through. They should be making a big deal about this.

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sorry but i feel as if they are making a big deal over nothing really. Okay so the C/R made a mistake. It just seems as if the woman who was affected wanted some TV time and decided to call NY1. Sorry but mistakes happen. Sure there maybe 2 boards. Still. At least no one was hurt and the fall can be fatal if there was no walkway, but there was still a cat walk. Sorry thats just my take

 

THAT'S the problem...imagine if it was a rush of people exiting the train when all of a sudden the person in front of everyone else stopped short; the people behind that said person may not get the message quick enough and walk into everyone else in front of them, thus pushing them off the train.

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So a C/R is really just supposed to make sure he/she is stopped right next to a board before opening the doors? I would think the C/R should have to visually confirm that all the cars are lined up with the platform before opening the doors by looking out the little window thing in the cab.

 

the only visual confirmation we need is the C/R's indication board. if we are adjacent to the PROPER board, we know it is safe to open up.

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the only visual confirmation we need is the C/R's indication board. if we are adjacent to the PROPER board, we know it is safe to open up.

 

And for those who don't know already, said proper board is labeled as such. Boards for full-length trains have no markings at all, as the station car stop markers are supposed to make sure even shorter trains will have a c/r on the board (here its [11][10][8][6]).

 

In stations where they want all trains regardless of length to stop at the same place (in this case it looks like an usually located in stations where the main exit/entrance is at the front of the traveling direction), several boards are located with the amount of cars labeled on the board itself (usually 8 or 6). So there would be a 10 car board with no labels, an 8 car board few dozen feet away or so with an 8 on it, a 6 car board few more dozen feet away, etc. For stations where the 6 and 8 are in the same place, BOTH a 6 and an 8 will be on the board. Of course a lot of this is archaic info as there are no longer 6 car trains running.

 

Its ONLY the R42 that doesn't have MDC's in its #1 t/o cab that they have to put it in a special place, but it still is an 8 car, full length train board. That's why it had no labels. Merely a design flaw, but a critical one, and one they couldn't blame the c/r for. Note that a 10 car R42 would have the c/r in the middle as usual as a #2 cab would fall in between the 5th and 6th cars.

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And for those who don't know already, said proper board is labeled as such. Boards for full-length trains have no markings at all, as the station car stop markers are supposed to make sure even shorter trains will have a c/r on the board (here its [11][10][8][6]).

 

In stations where they want all trains regardless of length to stop at the same place (in this case it looks like an usually located in stations where the main exit/entrance is at the front of the traveling direction), several boards are located with the amount of cars labeled on the board itself (usually 8 or 6). So there would be a 10 car board with no labels, an 8 car board few dozen feet away or so with an 8 on it, a 6 car board few more dozen feet away, etc. For stations where the 6 and 8 are in the same place, BOTH a 6 and an 8 will be on the board. Of course a lot of this is archaic info as there are no longer 6 car trains running.

 

Its ONLY the R42 that doesn't have MDC's in its #1 t/o cab that they have to put it in a special place, but it still is an 8 car, full length train board. That's why it had no labels. Merely a design flaw, but a critical one, and one they couldn't blame the c/r for. Note that a 10 car R42 would have the c/r in the middle as usual as a #2 cab would fall in between the 5th and 6th cars.

 

Thanks for the info! I always wanted to understand those C/R boards and why there are so many of them at some stations in seemingly odd places.

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its not that hard to figure out the driver maybe undershot the platform and stopped before he reach the end. its a simple mistake that has happened before. the driver undershot the platform by and entire car and did not realize maybe it was a rookie driving the train and undershot the platform. because once the drive applies the brakes sometimes those trains stop before hand. it also depends on how many cars the train had. if the train had 8 cars its no excuse the driver did something wrong. if the train had more then it was a mistake those platforms can only acommodate 8 cars. maybe the train had nine cars who knows. but those people are lucky. either way they would not have fallen on the sidewalk they would maybe have dropped next to the train on the worker walkway or gotten stuck under the train. either way we got to investigate.

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but how do we know the driver did not realize the last car did not reach the station? i say its a simple mistake he should have been paying more attention and stopping the train were the 10 marker was.

 

That's not a simple mistake, not in this business. That's a huge mistake.

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but how do we know the driver did not realize the last car did not reach the station? i say its a simple mistake he should have been paying more attention and stopping the train were the 10 marker was.

 

there is no 10 car mark nor 10 car trains on the JLMZ. Only 8 cars and 4 on the weekend M shuttle.

 

Today, the M I was on got tripped by the timer just before the platform at Macy and the first few doors were ironically in the spots where the last few doors opened in the undershoot incident. Awhile ago, The M i was on got tripped by the timer enter Wyckoff but that was due to wheel slippage since it was the day after that bad ice storm.

 

Also, this morning the M at Fresh Pond undershot by a couple of door lengths but it was still on the board, barely.

 

Whats up with these M T/O's.

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10 marker 8 marker whats the difference there is always a marker showing where the train should stop. and by the way that steep grade coming off the bridge on the (J) <z> an (M) lines is difficult because with the wait of the train the driver may apply the brake to early and undershoot the platform. the same thing happened on a (Q) train that was at neptune avenue the train undershot and half of a door opened onto the tracks. good that it was the last car and nobody was in the last car. :)

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