MTA board members chew over banning food and drink, cite track fires, rats, garbage a reasons

[Joe From Greenpernt]

LMAO You're full of it old timer. But it's OK. I can forgive senility. Also considering you're the one misspelling things that have more than two syllables I'd watch where you take your rebuttals or learn how to do "that spell check thing" before you take a stab at my vocab. I troubleshoot computers all the time so I could teach you, assuming you aren't completely set in your ways.

 

 

You haven't hit a nerve at all. I just enjoy scraping the floor with people who ride horses as high as yours. Might wanna watch that you don't fall off. Wouldn't want you to break a hip. But I'm sorry I should respect my elders right? Should I address you as sir at the end of each sentence? Or is it ok for me to address you by name, Joe!

 

As I can forgive your overwhelming stupidity. The only thing you scrape is the sh*t that the horse you claim I'm riding unloads on you. I've been working with computers even before you were unsuccessfully aborted and graced us with your presence.

 

Sure, you can call me Joe. Only if I can call you Stan.

 

 

Hmmm. I dunno, Stan. You don't look smart enough to troubleshoot anything, let alone a computer. But, it looks like you know how to make good ole NETO smile.

[Wallyhorse]

The real problem here is those who truly are slobs, not like people of past eras (remember when you used to have luncheonettes inside the fare control?) who seemed to be much better about that.

 

That said, I though there already WAS a ban on food in the subway.

[MikeGerald]

This thread of messages helped me to make up my mind on this topic.

 

I would not support a ban on eating and drinking on the subways.

 

I would support tickets for littering and leaving refuse on the trains, buses, and commuter trains.

 

There are a variety of situations in regards to food, and various types of food situations that regular people find themselves in. I believe that when it comes to writing the rules for a food ban, that there will be a wide area for abuse by the police when it comes to writing tickets, the kinds of blanket enforcement, the situations and circumstances, etc. It is an area ripe for problems.

 

Decades ago, the TA itself in the subways had donut shops, Nedicks spots for hot-dogs and soda, soda vending machines, newstands that sold candy bars, chewing gum machines attached to the columns, etc. There is a case for reducing the amount of food sold in the subway system, but a complete ban - I believe is not warranted.

 

I really question why this ban is proposed for the subways, but not commuter rail or express buses, also. I also question why just after one instance that caught the "internet viral media storm" that there is a need to change rules, etc. The situation is a simple one of assault and battery, and should be dealt with in that manner. Is there really a need to make a new rule?

 

Is it really a good idea to ticket little kids who are sucking on a lollipop or drinking from their milk bottle or juice cup, or their parents under some supposed rule about "no eating or drinking on the subway" - meaning nothing at all eaten. What about chewing gum, or the last bite of a donut. Hey, plenty of cops like donuts, also.

 

Such an example may seem absurd, but now try to write a rule that covers so many situations, that is also easy to understand and enforce. Do those who propose the food ban really want cops to be the judges on the spot of who gets a ticket, and who does not? While the police do have discretion in some matters, there are too many situations and happenings where that same "discretion" has been used to bad ends, and bad results.

 

Besides, where's the evidence after a person has finished eating their donut? At least in the case of litter, the evidence is left behind to document.

 

Allowing the eating of food - it simply not the same as supporting the idea that folks are free to litter and leave their refuse, newspapers and other crap on the trains (buses, ferries, commuter trains, etc.). Again, I fully support the idea that people should be fined and ticketed for littering, leaving their refuse, etc. And yes, I am bothered by people who do not clean up after themselves, leaving a mess for others.

 

I know that plenty of people eat or drink something on the Staten Island Ferry on the way to work, or on the express buses, or commuter trains. So under this proposed ban - those folks are allowed to do so - while folks on the subways are fined? That smacks of un-fairness - which also could imply a racial or class bias in the decision making - especially when the cause was the "internet viral video" as the impetus.

 

Nor does "allowing the eating of food" by having no rules against it - mean that people should be jerks about what they eat on the subway. Just as the MTA has ads about behavior that is not "criminal" - running down stairs, etc. - the MTA could make ads about being courteous to other riders, cleaning up after oneself, handling food or drinks in a way that does not disturb others or leave a mess. While not "rules" in the sense of punitive sanctions - they could expand the universe known as "common sense". Where it becomes "common sense" that one does not eat "from large take-out containers of food", on the subways, but that " smaller food items" are ok. And that in all cases, take the refuse off the trains. Or that containers of coffee should have covers with small openings, and should be discarded properly after use. There are several ways to deal with a problem, without having to create cumbersome laws, and resultant problems with those laws.

 

This debate has clarified a variety of issues for me. I do not support the proposed food or drinking ban on the subways, for the reasons listed above. I fully believe that people should be ticketed and fined, when they litter, or leave refuse behind. I believe that there are positive ways to deal with this problem.

 

Mike

[Urbanfortitude]

As I can forgive your overwhelming stupidity. The only thing you scrape is the sh*t that the horse you claim I'm riding unloads on you. I've been working with computers even before you were unsuccessfully aborted and graced us with your presence.

 

Sure, you can call me Joe. Only if I can call you Stan. Hmmm. I dunno, Stan. You don't look smart enough to troubleshoot anything, let alone a computer. But, it looks like you know how to make good ole NETO smile.

 

Maybe I am a bit stupid but I'd take stupidity over blatant ignorance any day. I know how to learn from mistakes. So tell me, is this the part where I'm supposed to be shaken up? Not gonna happen. I will say though aside from the green hat I'm lookin pretty sharp on a cold day. Try again, though. You were closer to striking a nerve when you mistook me for the typical young person. So you can either keep taking shots at me like the judgmental person you've managed to portray or you can go back to the topic at hand. Maybe you'll find someone whose skin is a little thinner. But considering your "general statements" thus far, I'd say this is only getting started.

[RTOMan]

Hey Terrapin that you?

 

The posting style seems familar, or maybe its Kew Gardens Teleport...

[TwoTimer]

This reminds me of that DC Metro ad, where oh btw they don't allow eating/drinking. Mind you, the idea of cutting cleaner staff (being that trains are cleaner) could be a motivational tool as well.

[RTOMan]

Maybe I am a bit stupid but I'd take stupidity over blatant ignorance any day. I know how to learn from mistakes. So tell me, is this the part where I'm supposed to be shaken up? Not gonna happen. I will say though aside from the green hat I'm lookin pretty sharp on a cold day. Try again, though. You were closer to striking a nerve when you mistook me for the typical young person. So you can either keep taking shots at me like the judgmental person you've managed to portray or you can go back to the topic at hand. Maybe you'll find someone whose skin is a little thinner. But considering your "general statements" thus far, I'd say this is only getting started.

 

Definately a SubChatter,probably Kew Gardens...

[Urbanfortitude]

Definately a SubChatter,probably Kew Gardens...

 

Aww sweet! I get to butt heads with a sub-chatter who knows my name. I knew I was excited for a reason.

[Princelex]

It would be hard not to echo what others have said before but here goes nothing lol. I'm with MikeGerald, I don't think food and drinks need to be banned but I do think that an enforcment of laws such as littering need to be put further to the front in terms of fining people. The real problem is the littering. Littering goes much further than just food but newspapers, wrappers of any kind, etc... Yes food can make a subway car or bus smell bad depending on what the food is, but the key to it all is making sure that the person doesn't leave what they've eaten behind. I get more offended looking at people dump their shit out than them bringing food on the train, even if I don't want to smell it. In the end, it's not worth me flipping my wig over it but that me and how I would deal with the situation.

[3rd Avenue El]

you know i have looked at all of the recent polls and the majority say that eating and drinking on the subway should not be banned. and i agree, i eat on the subway but i listen to the trash cans and throw out the bones or left overs in the trash can. if everybody did that the there would be no problem. but people have problems throwing the left overs or remains in the garbage. they either leave it on the subway seat or under the seat and sometimes throw it on the tracks. one time i was on the and there was a beer bottle rolling from one car end to the other. it was disgusting. it still had beer in it and was pouring all over the floor. the freaking car smelled like beer. everybody was angry. :mad:

[LRG]

Definately a SubChatter,probably Kew Gardens...

 

Nah Kew Gardens posts here as "KGTeleport".

[Via Garibaldi 8]

This thread of messages helped me to make up my mind on this topic.

 

I would not support a ban on eating and drinking on the subways.

 

I would support tickets for littering and leaving refuse on the trains, buses, and commuter trains.

 

There are a variety of situations in regards to food, and various types of food situations that regular people find themselves in. I believe that when it comes to writing the rules for a food ban, that there will be a wide area for abuse by the police when it comes to writing tickets, the kinds of blanket enforcement, the situations and circumstances, etc. It is an area ripe for problems.

 

Decades ago, the TA itself in the subways had donut shops, Nedicks spots for hot-dogs and soda, soda vending machines, newstands that sold candy bars, chewing gum machines attached to the columns, etc. There is a case for reducing the amount of food sold in the subway system, but a complete ban - I believe is not warranted.

 

I really question why this ban is proposed for the subways, but not commuter rail or express buses, also. I also question why just after one instance that caught the "internet viral media storm" that there is a need to change rules, etc. The situation is a simple one of assault and battery, and should be dealt with in that manner. Is there really a need to make a new rule?

 

Is it really a good idea to ticket little kids who are sucking on a lollipop or drinking from their milk bottle or juice cup, or their parents under some supposed rule about "no eating or drinking on the subway" - meaning nothing at all eaten. What about chewing gum, or the last bite of a donut. Hey, plenty of cops like donuts, also.

 

Such an example may seem absurd, but now try to write a rule that covers so many situations, that is also easy to understand and enforce. Do those who propose the food ban really want cops to be the judges on the spot of who gets a ticket, and who does not? While the police do have discretion in some matters, there are too many situations and happenings where that same "discretion" has been used to bad ends, and bad results.

 

Besides, where's the evidence after a person has finished eating their donut? At least in the case of litter, the evidence is left behind to document.

 

Allowing the eating of food - it simply not the same as supporting the idea that folks are free to litter and leave their refuse, newspapers and other crap on the trains (buses, ferries, commuter trains, etc.). Again, I fully support the idea that people should be fined and ticketed for littering, leaving their refuse, etc. And yes, I am bothered by people who do not clean up after themselves, leaving a mess for others.

 

I know that plenty of people eat or drink something on the Staten Island Ferry on the way to work, or on the express buses, or commuter trains. So under this proposed ban - those folks are allowed to do so - while folks on the subways are fined? That smacks of un-fairness - which also could imply a racial or class bias in the decision making - especially when the cause was the "internet viral video" as the impetus.

 

Nor does "allowing the eating of food" by having no rules against it - mean that people should be jerks about what they eat on the subway. Just as the MTA has ads about behavior that is not "criminal" - running down stairs, etc. - the MTA could make ads about being courteous to other riders, cleaning up after oneself, handling food or drinks in a way that does not disturb others or leave a mess. While not "rules" in the sense of punitive sanctions - they could expand the universe known as "common sense". Where it becomes "common sense" that one does not eat "from large take-out containers of food", on the subways, but that " smaller food items" are ok. And that in all cases, take the refuse off the trains. Or that containers of coffee should have covers with small openings, and should be discarded properly after use. There are several ways to deal with a problem, without having to create cumbersome laws, and resultant problems with those laws.

 

This debate has clarified a variety of issues for me. I do not support the proposed food or drinking ban on the subways, for the reasons listed above. I fully believe that people should be ticketed and fined, when they litter, or leave refuse behind. I believe that there are positive ways to deal with this problem.

 

Mike

 

 

To clarify there is a no eating rule on the express buses and they do enforce it if you get carried away with it and they see you. Your whole idea of the taking out a campaign and such sounds nice, but the fact of the matter is this is NYC and times have changed from when people were considerate and respectful of others. Now and days, people only care about themselves and what their needs are, especially the younger generation, so basically that ad thing won't help much. People complain about a nanny state, but none of this would be necessary if folks were just considerate and did not have entire meals on the subway and took their garbage with them.

 

I think in the (MTA)'s eyes, they are saying hey, we're not wild about folks eating and such because they litter, but we'll be nice because people have needs, but after seeing that video, I can't blame them for wanting to enforce a ban. What it comes down to is if people can't be mature and appreciate being allowed to eat on the subway then they shouldn't be allowed to. It is a priviledge that they permit eating on the trains, but people abuse the situation and think they can just lay out with their food everywhere because they're hungry or whatever and basically it's f*ck the rest of the passengers and then leave their trash to boot to be cleaned up.

 

There would be far less trash and fires and such since there would be less litter and that would mean perhaps more savings for an agency that is already in a financial hole.

[553 Bridgeton]

So they are saying this will help the rat problem?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So they are saying this will help the rat problem?

 

No food and drinks on the subway, means less food and sticky stuff for the rats to feed on as well as less track fires, since there would be less litter. I would think people would like less track fires, since that would mean fewer delays, but it seems like folks are more concerned with being able to eat on the subway than getting where they need to go faster. Maybe if they got to their destinations faster they'd have more time to eat like a normal human being instead of stuffing their face on the subway.

[553 Bridgeton]

Excuse me while I:

 

 

But really...People will eat anyways. Stopping people from doing something only tells them to do it anyway.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

But really...People will eat anyways. Stopping people from doing something only tells them to do it anyway.

 

This is true... Look at how many people still talk and drive on the cell phone despite it being deadly, so the only way for this to really work is for them to enforce it heavily and do blitzes.

[Fresh Pond]

So they are saying this will help the rat problem?

 

Its not gonna do nothing. There's always gonna be rats cuz it seems like people forgot that the subway is built

 

OVER THE SEWERS!!!!!!

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Its not gonna do nothing. There's always gonna be rats cuz it seems like people forgot that the subway is built

 

OVER THE SEWERS!!!!!!

 

But leaving litter around only helps to exacerbate the rat problem.

[Brighton Local]

Enough with Bashing each other. Discuss the thread title or don't talk at all.

[553 Bridgeton]

But leaving litter around only helps to exacerbate the rat problem.

 

That maybe the case, but the rats will still be here. They are not going anywhere! You basically talking about getting rid of rats.....

[Joe]

Ban food and allow only bottled water. Have some inspectors go around fining people left and right. Creates jobs & makes money.

[553 Bridgeton]

Ban food and allow only bottled water. Have some inspectors go around fining people left and right. Creates jobs & makes money.

 

You still have to pay those people so in the end it cancels out making money. Were talking about the MTA here. This isnt PATCO(DRPA) or the WMATA. And were talking about NY here, home of the most arrogant people.

[Joe]

If you make the fines high enough, they'll pay for themselves.

[INDman]

You still have to pay those people so in the end it cancels out making money. Were talking about the MTA here. This isnt PATCO(DRPA) or the WMATA. And were talking about NY here, home of the most arrogant people.

 

If you fine them enough, it will take them down a peg or two. Sounds like a winning idea to me.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Ban food and allow only bottled water. Have some inspectors go around fining people left and right. Creates jobs & makes money.

 

Make them undercover like they do in Italy with the fare inspectors. You won't know until they flash their ID or whatever.