Should there be a group discount for NYC transit services?

[checkmatechamp13]

I think that there should be group discounts on the transit services in the NYC region to attract people who would've otherwise carpooled to their destination. For example, I remember a while back, my family was going to the SI Mall and a car service company charged $8, whereas the bus fare for everybody who was going would've been $7 at the time (3 adults and 1 senior). Had there been a group discount, we probably would've taken public transportation there.

 

Another time, my family was going to the Bronx Zoo, and we paid $27.50 for the express bus to get there. If we had taken the car, we would've had to pay for gas and the toll for the RFK Bridge, but it would've still been cheaper than going by express bus (I don't even know the reason why we didn't drive).

 

The question becomes: How can the MTA verify that it is a legitimate group, rather than a people who were waiting at a bus stop and tried to save money by saying they were a group when they weren't? Maybe there could be a family pass that people can apply for, that would allow up to 5 people up on 1 pass (either that, or the bus driver or station agent can take the person's word that they are part of a group).

 

Just a thought.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I think that there should be group discounts on the transit services in the NYC region to attract people who would've otherwise carpooled to their destination. For example, I remember a while back, my family was going to the SI Mall and a car service company charged $8, whereas the bus fare for everybody who was going would've been $7 at the time (3 adults and 1 senior). Had there been a group discount, we probably would've taken public transportation there.

 

Another time, my family was going to the Bronx Zoo, and we paid $27.50 for the express bus to get there. If we had taken the car, we would've had to pay for gas and the toll for the RFK Bridge, but it would've still been cheaper than going by express bus (I don't even know the reason why we didn't drive).

 

The question becomes: How can the MTA verify that it is a legitimate group, rather than a people who were waiting at a bus stop and tried to save money by saying they were a group when they weren't? Maybe there could be a family pass that people can apply for, that would allow up to 5 people up on 1 pass (either that, or the bus driver or station agent can take the person's word that they are part of a group).

 

Just a thought.

 

The can't afford any more discounts than it gives already, especially on the express bus. They already complain about how much they have to subsidize it as it is.

[checkmatechamp13]

But couldn't this attract additional ridership from people who decide to use public transportation instead of using their cars? That would actually increase revenue for them. Much of this extra ridership would probably be generated off-peak, where there is spare capacity for additional riders.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

But couldn't this attract additional ridership from people who decide to use public transportation instead of using their cars? That would actually increase revenue for them. Much of this extra ridership would probably be generated off-peak, where there is spare capacity for additional riders.

 

Take the black lady that got on the X10 a few Sundays ago with the 5 brats. She paid $5.50 once and didn't pay for any of the kids, even though they were big enough to be paid for. Meanwhile they're taking up 5 seats that folks who are paying the premium fare should have.

 

Now I'm in favour of the discount that they give for the seniors which is only during the non-peak hours and then it is $2.25. All other times it is $5.50. If anything it should be raised to $6.50 to help them recoup some of their costs for providing the service. Folks already get the 15% discount or whatever for the pay-per-ride and the Unlimited card is still very reasonable at $50.00 per week.

 

The express bus should remain where it is at with the premium fare being charged as much as possible and the kids should be paid for unless they don't occupy a seat.

 

If they want to entice ridership let them do it on the local bus where their costs are low, but the express bus provides a premium service and those who can afford will continue to use it, as is demonstrated even with the economy in the tanks. Those who can't afford it have other alternatives. Quite frankly that chick should've taken the local bus with the 5 brats taking seats from paying riders. Between her and the 5 kids she paid basically less than a $1.00 for the ride and had the audacity to complain about the fare being so "high" when she paid only for herself. :mad:

 

And before anyone starts complaining about the race card I don't care if the person is green. If they come on w/kids they should pay for them just the same. :mad:

[checkmatechamp13]

My question to you is: Did anybody have to stand as a result of her kids taking up the seats? If not, then they weren't depriving anybody of a seat, so they didn't really cost the MTA anything (and the MTA actually got more money, because if her kids took up 4 seats on the local bus, she would've only given the MTA $2.25, rather than $5.50)

 

Also, I'm not suggesting a "Buy 1, Get 4 free" discount or anything drastic like that. I'm just saying something like the following:

 

1 person: $5.50

2 people: $10

3 people: $14

4 people: $17

and $3 extra for every additional person

[Via Garibaldi 8]

My question to you is: Did anybody have to stand as a result of her kids taking up the seats? If not, then they weren't depriving anybody of a seat, so they didn't really cost the MTA anything (and the MTA actually got more money, because if her kids took up 4 seats on the local bus, she would've only given the MTA $2.25, rather than $5.50)

 

Also, I'm not suggesting a "Buy 1, Get 4 free" discount or anything drastic like that. I'm just saying something like the following:

 

1 person: $5.50

2 people: $10

3 people: $14

4 people: $17

and $3 extra for every additional person

 

In that instance it was very close to being SRO and folks were hunched together when they didn't need to be and I have been on express buses where SRO has happened with the kids taking up a seat that was not paid for. In sum, no further discounting should be given for express buses. Express Bus riders already get a discount with the pay-per-ride, so the more that card is dipped the more the each ride is discounted. That's just being greedy when the service is a premium one that the pays a lot for it already.

[checkmatechamp13]

The pay-per-ride MetroCard doesn't give you additional discounts if you use it more often: An unlimited does.

 

In any case, this program would also apply to the subways and local buses (and the commuter rails if they don't have it already)

[Shortline Bus]

My question to you is: Did anybody have to stand as a result of her kids taking up the seats? If not, then they weren't depriving anybody of a seat, so they didn't really cost the MTA anything (and the MTA actually got more money, because if her kids took up 4 seats on the local bus, she would've only given the MTA $2.25, rather than $5.50)

 

Also, I'm not suggesting a "Buy 1, Get 4 free" discount or anything drastic like that. I'm just saying something like the following:

 

1 person: $5.50

2 people: $10

3 people: $14

4 people: $17

and $3 extra for every additional person

 

I know in other cities I been to such as Toronto and San Diego they do offer 'group' discounts but only on weekends(Toronto)and Major Holidays (San Diego). In San Diego they do offer a pay a full fare and your friend/partner 'rides for free' on days such as July 4th, Thanksgiving and Christmas.

 

Honestly Checkmate I am not saying your idea is a terrible one but I don't think the will ever offer this full time. Maybe something similar to San Diego and Toronto on weekends/holidays only.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The pay-per-ride MetroCard doesn't give you additional discounts if you use it more often: An unlimited does.

 

In any case, this program would also apply to the subways and local buses (and the commuter rails if they don't have it already)

 

In a way yes... The discount is the same, but the more you rode over the course of time you would save more since you'd get that bonus that they give you. I know what you're getting at though, but really, the already subsidizes the system heavily AND they give a discount on top of that. It's a little overkill IMO. I know what the incentive is, but they're really not in a position to be giving those discounts right now. They're keeping fares relatively low across the board and that should be the primary focus.

 

Either way the cost is so low in comparison to having a car. Over the course of the year I pay $2,600.00 for the Unlimited Express Bus Card. When I sit down an analyze getting a car, it makes no sense seeing that I am mainly in the city most of the time which means that if I had a car, I would at the most drive it to the express bus and get no exercise in the process. It's still far cheaper to use mass transit because with a car there's maintenance, insurance, gas, the monthly payment for the car, etc. etc. Yes, I use car service also which I usually give myself about $40.00 a week for but that's something that I can cut out if I really need to and when the weather is nice I'll walk to and from the express bus during the weekends since it's a 20 minute walk tops.

[Amtrak7]

Why do they limit the number of people per card to 4 anyway?

[Shortline Bus]

Why do they limit the number of people per card to 4 anyway?

 

You talking Toronto right Amtrak?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You talking Toronto right Amtrak?

 

He's asking why do they limit the amount of dips or swipes to 4 at a time on the Metrocard.

[St Louis Car 09]

That wouldnt balance right at all.

 

Wher you may have more riders,the will lose about a dollar a person in a group.Making for deeper cuts in the future and a rediculous deficit.

[Santa Fe via Willow]

cc13's idea reminds me of something on an RTA System Map I sent for back in November 1999. The RTA being Chicagoland's MTA.

 

Anyway, to cut to the chase, I remember a group special concerning Cubs games that was $5.00 carloads. I'll have to dig up & look at that map again. I'm pretty sure they've discontinued this Cubgame group special.

 

cc13's idea makes cents, if TPTB did it right.

 

Btw I've NEVER been to ChicagoB) RTA's interesting. Its subdivisions are:

 

CTA -

Analogue, "equivalent" of NYCT. I thought of the Yellow Line, when I looked at the map, as Chicago's "SIR" & "Green Line" simultaneously.

 

Metra -

Analogue, "equivalent" of the LIRR & Metro-North.

 

Pace Bus -

Analogue, "equivalent", of LI Bus & other MTA bus services outside the 5 boroughs.

 

Chicagoland would be a :cool: place/region to visit in the summer.

 

PS: They have a 79 there too. IIRC from the map it operates between the Ford City Mall & somewhere nearer to Lake Michigan's coastline. Eerily (S79)ish yes?

[Gramps]

My question to you is: Did anybody have to stand as a result of her kids taking up the seats? If not, then they weren't depriving anybody of a seat, so they didn't really cost the MTA anything (and the MTA actually got more money, because if her kids took up 4 seats on the local bus, she would've only given the MTA $2.25, rather than $5.50)

 

Also, I'm not suggesting a "Buy 1, Get 4 free" discount or anything drastic like that. I'm just saying something like the following:

 

1 person: $5.50

2 people: $10

3 people: $14

4 people: $17

and $3 extra for every additional person

 

They deprived the MTA of revenue and that costs ALL of us !

[checkmatechamp13]

That wouldnt balance right at all.

 

Wher you may have more riders,the will lose about a dollar a person in a group.Making for deeper cuts in the future and a rediculous deficit.

 

They only lose more money if those additional riders require additional buses. If they drove, the MTA wouldn't get anything (except for maybe the tolls they pay).

 

They deprived the MTA of revenue and that costs ALL of us !

 

If she wasn't going to pay the fare for the 4 kids anyway, she wasn't depriving them of any revenue. If she had taken the local bus, she would've given the MTA $2.25, rather than $5.50.

 

Maybe this program could be like the senior discount program: It applies all times on the local buses and subways, and applies off-peak only on the express buses. Even if additional buses are added, the marginal costs wouldn't be that great, since they would be off-peak.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

They only lose more money if those additional riders require additional buses. If they drove, the MTA wouldn't get anything (except for maybe the tolls they pay).

 

 

 

If she wasn't going to pay the fare for the 4 kids anyway, she wasn't depriving them of any revenue. If she had taken the local bus, she would've given the MTA $2.25, rather than $5.50.

 

Maybe this program could be like the senior discount program: It applies all times on the local buses and subways, and applies off-peak only on the express buses. Even if additional buses are added, the marginal costs wouldn't be that great, since they would be off-peak.

 

 

You're assuming that ridership during off peak hours on Staten Island Express Buses isn't that high, but I also use the express bus during days off and even then it gets good usage.

[checkmatechamp13]

But the marginal cost of adding off-peak express bus service isn't that great. Look at the cost per passenger of the X1, X10, and X17 during the weekdays (when the service is heavily peaked), compared to the cost on weekends.

 

I'll save you the trouble of looking it up:

X1 (and all of its other variants): $8.02 weekdays, $4.83 weekends

X10 (and X11): $7.78 weekdays, $5.36 weekends

X17 (and X19): $9.49 weekdays, $7.63 weekends

[B35 via Church]

I don't think there should be a group discount for NYC express bus service... or for locals for that matter....

keep the fare flat for everyone, regardless if they aint by themselves... and I'm Good To Go....

 

the MTA wants MORE money from those of us that use their services, not less...

too much wishful thinking on your end, CC....

 

I'll just take the little "bonus" you get, when you refill a metrocard with any multiple of $10....

 

Outside of schoolkids, who really travels on the bus in packs (especially enough to make a difference in savings) like that anyway.....

[checkmatechamp13]

There are families who bring their kids to NYC, and want to go to attractions in various places in NYC (on a side note, that is why it was a stupid idea to get rid of the 1-Day Fun Pass)

 

There are also local [people] who want to bring their families to the beach (Orchard Beach, Coney Island, etc).

 

And, of course, there are always going to be people who were in my situation, where we needed to go to a place like the Bronx Zoo as a group (I'm sure people can arrange their own groups to go out and see an attraction, if they had this discount).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

But the marginal cost of adding off-peak express bus service isn't that great. Look at the cost per passenger of the X1, X10, and X17 during the weekdays (when the service is heavily peaked), compared to the cost on weekends.

 

I'll save you the trouble of looking it up:

X1 (and all of its other variants): $8.02 weekdays, $4.83 weekends

X10 (and X11): $7.78 weekdays, $5.36 weekends

X17 (and X19): $9.49 weekdays, $7.63 weekends

 

They cut all of the other express buses particularly on the North Shore too short in the morning and those people have not stopped taking the express bus. They just go down to Hylan Blvd where the service runs later and plentiful. They're under the impression that it's the South Shore that is using those buses later in the morning, when in reality its folks from the North Shore and parts of Rosebank that's filling up those buses. The end result is increased costs on the X1. When I get on the X2 at Hylan Blvd it has maybe 6 people tops coming from New Dorp and othe parts of the Mid island. It picks up a lot of passengers along Steuben and further up by Hylan Blvd and Narrows Road South.

 

The same can be said about the X10. That line has its own passengers to deal with in the AM rush let along the overflow from the X13/X14/X16 combo.

 

The point I'm making is they need to stop with the take the ferry nonsense to the North Shore because we won't. We need express bus service just like the South Shore does because our commutes are long also and if they're not going to extend service then they'll need more X1s. Extend service on the X14 to 09:00 and see how fewer X1s you would need. When they axed the X16 that last bus that would come around 08:50 and would have almost every seat filled... The last X14 Downtown in the PM is around 19:00 but the last one in the AM is 08:25 while the last X2 is at 08:45 from New Dorp. Terrible proportion of express bus service there.

 

Yes, the South Shore should have late express bus service, but so should the North Shore. The same thing should happen during the PM. Extend service for the North Shore. It's ridiculous to have the last X30 and X14 running at 18:00 from Midtown while the South Shore has X2s and X5s running up until almost 19:00. :mad:

[Via Garibaldi 8]

There are families who bring their kids to NYC, and want to go to attractions in various places in NYC (on a side note, that is why it was a stupid idea to get rid of the 1-Day Fun Pass)

 

There are also local [people] who want to bring their families to the beach (Orchard Beach, Coney Island, etc).

 

And, of course, there are always going to be people who were in my situation, where we needed to go to a place like the Bronx Zoo as a group (I'm sure people can arrange their own groups to go out and see an attraction, if they had this discount).

 

Really stupid of the to get rid of that. I don't know how they can claim that people weren't using it with the increase of tourists coming here. A load of BS....

[checkmatechamp13]

This was before they cut all of the service.

 

My point is that, if service is very peaked, the costs will be higher. Whether those passengers are coming from the North Shore or South Shore is irrelevant.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

This was before they cut all of the service.

 

My point is that, if service is very peaked, the costs will be higher. Whether those passengers are coming from the North Shore or South Shore is irrelevant.

 

You're telling me that it doesn't matter that you have to run X1s every 5 minutes when if you added say one X14 you could decrease the amount of X1s needed? Why do you think they added that X2? It was because they don't want to add more X1s and they want to move folks away from that line. They come every 5 minutes which is far more frequent than most local buses.

[checkmatechamp13]

You're telling me that it doesn't matter that you have to run X1s every 5 minutes when if you added say one X14 you could decrease the amount of X1s needed? Why do you think they added that X2? It was because they don't want to add more X1s and they want to move folks away from that line. They come every 5 minutes which is far more frequent than most local buses.

 

You mean more frequent than Staten Island local buses

 

But still, I feel it is irrelevant because you are still adding a peak hour bus. Whether that is on the X1, X2, X14, or any other bus, it still has the peak hour costs associated with it.