Should there be a group discount for NYC transit services?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You mean more frequent than Staten Island local buses

 

But still, I feel it is irrelevant because you are still adding a peak hour bus. Whether that is on the X1, X2, X14, or any other bus, it still has the peak hour costs associated with it.

 

That depends... shorter routes are less expensive generally and the X14 is a bit shorter than the X1. But you can't tell me that running an X1 every 5 minutes is better than having an X14 every 15 minutes.

 

P.S. No... I meant what I said, but I know what you mean...

[checkmatechamp13]

You have a point there, that it would cost less to add an X14 than an X1. But the point is that peak hour service is more expensive to provide. I'll give you credit for the X1, but how do you explain the X10 and X17?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You have a point there, that it would cost less to add an X14 than an X1. But the point is that peak hour service is more expensive to provide. I'll give you credit for the X1, but how do you explain the X10 and X17?

 

Some of the X10 is attributed to the X13/X14/X16 crowd as well. That line is used well during the rush hour and is packed by the time it reaches Slosson and Schmidts Lane. A lot of folks drive over to Manor and Schmidts and are dropped off to get the X10 and X11 since there's a bus shelter there and ample room to park and wait for the bus.

 

Adding more service on the X14 would help a little bit, but that line basically has its own riders. It is used heavily basically from Victory Blvd all the way through Bulls Head mainly for the Downtown service and because it provides service over by the WTC.

 

The X17 meanwhile also has its regular riders. If you think about it its really the only line serving folks in the mid west section of the island with the exception of the X23 and X24, which can be really erractic and the X22, so that's sort of a no brainer. In addition to that you have those folks on Richmond Ave that flock to it because it jumps on the SIE right away AND it's rather reliable. It's frequency can be as high as the X1 at times. So while the X1 could be decreased a bit with help from other lines, the X10 and X17 would be less so.

[Gramps]

They only lose more money if those additional riders require additional buses. If they drove, the MTA wouldn't get anything (except for maybe the tolls they pay).

 

 

 

If she wasn't going to pay the fare for the 4 kids anyway, she wasn't depriving them of any revenue. If she had taken the local bus, she would've given the MTA $2.25, rather than $5.50.

 

Maybe this program could be like the senior discount program: It applies all times on the local buses and subways, and applies off-peak only on the express buses. Even if additional buses are added, the marginal costs wouldn't be that great, since they would be off-peak.

 

How much $$ do you want to give away ?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

How much $$ do you want to give away ?

 

He argues that the doesn't have money for more service improvements, but yet they have money to offer more discounts...??? :confused:

 

One could argue that their generous discounts are also part of the reason that they're in a hole now...

[checkmatechamp13]

Let's face it: It is in my nature to be frugal. Rather than having more revenue and more service, I would rather have less revenue and less service. I'm one of those people that, unlike the majority of people, prefers service reductions to fare hikes (and I'm also an advocate for free/very cheap transit)

 

Also, I was looking at it as a way for the MTA to actually gain revenue. By offering group discounts off-peak, you can make better use of resources, as ridership will be less peaky, and therefore, more efficient to operate. In addition, you can encourage people to make trips by public transit that they wouldn't have made otherwise. Didn't you say that there were all of these groups of people taking the X1 to Manhattan on the weekends? Imagine how many people are carpooling to Manhattan because driving is a better value than mass transit.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Let's face it: It is in my nature to be frugal. Rather than having more revenue and more service, I would rather have less revenue and less service. I'm one of those people that, unlike the majority of people, prefers service reductions to fare hikes (and I'm also an advocate for free/very cheap transit)

 

Also, I was looking at it as a way for the MTA to actually gain revenue. By offering group discounts off-peak, you can make better use of resources, as ridership will be less peaky, and therefore, more efficient to operate. In addition, you can encourage people to make trips by public transit that they wouldn't have made otherwise. Didn't you say that there were all of these groups of people taking the X1 to Manhattan on the weekends? Imagine how many people are carpooling to Manhattan because driving is a better value than mass transit.

 

Those people would take the X1 regardless. They're mainly teenagers that are "mommy" and "daddy" want to shelter so they give them their $11.00 to take the express bus so that they don't get lost in the big scary city... B) Aka the brats of the South Shore...

 

I hate when there's a group of them too because they make a sh*t load of noise usually trying to show that they're "so ghetto". B)

 

So yeah if this discount meant letting that abnoxious lady with the 5 brats ride for cheaper or those loud obnoxious brats from the South Shore ride cheaper, I'm completely against it.

 

To be honest, if you lower it you'll have too many seedy people riding and the last thing we need are the express buses turning into Staten Island local buses and I'm sure the doesn't want to buy nice buses to have them torn up by savages, nor do I. Us regular express bus riders have put up w/the sh*tty MCIs that Castleton has had for years and when we get the new ones, I'd like them to stay nice so I can have a comfortable ride.

 

I was just about to post about how funny I thought it was that you tried to get cheaper Metrocards on the black market. LOL I mean that thought has never crossed my mind. I just check how many weeks there will be in the month and multiply that by $50.00 and that's it. B)

 

I can tell you must be one tough b@stard to play in chess. lol

[checkmatechamp13]

Geez. When I wrote this, I thought you would've supported this plan.

 

Lower fares=higher ridership=more express buses=happy Via Garibaldi

 

I do hate those types of people who try to act ghetto. There was this girl who used to act all ghetto talking about taking the local bus, eating in Checkers and Planet Wings in Mariners' Harbor, and other things that I just consider to be normal activities for me.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Geez. When I wrote this, I thought you would've supported this plan.

 

Lower fares=higher ridership=more express buses=happy Via Garibaldi

 

I do hate those types of people who try to act ghetto. There was this girl who used to act all ghetto talking about taking the local bus, eating in Checkers and Planet Wings in Mariners' Harbor, and other things that I just consider to be normal activities for me.

 

The overall isn't wild about express bus service in general and it doesn't matter which borough because they have to subsidize it heavily even at the $5.50 fare, so if anything they want it to be more expensive not cheaper. More people riding for cheaper would mean they would be subsidizing the service more and having to add more express buses, thus increasing their costs more overall. That's why I fight tooth and nail over any express bus elimination because I know how the views the express bus in general.

 

If they could, they'd look to get rid of it completely. If you notice they wanted to completely eliminate the X27 and X28 after they completed the subway work, but the folks in those areas made such a stink that they couldn't. Now what they've done is to eliminate all X37 and X38 service so that they try to get folks to stop using it. You'll notice that after the X1 and X17 #1 and #2 respectively, the X27 and X28 have the highest ridership out of all of the express buses, ranking 3rd and 4th respectively. Folks in Bay Ridge and Dyker Heights aren't stupid either. They know exactly what the is trying to do with that X27B, X28Bcrap they gave them instead of putting back the X37/X38 runs... I support any and all efforts that they make to keep their express bus service as it is a threat to my service as a express bus rider. :tup:

[checkmatechamp13]

Certain routes do come close to breaking even in terms of operating costs. Those stats I gave you show that the X27/X37 was actually the cheapest express bus in the system, costing around $6.50 per person, meaning that it made back roughly 66% of its operating costs, which is on par with many of the local routes in the system.

 

On the weekends, the X1 and X10 come close to breaking even, making back roughly 83% and 74% of their operating expenses, respectively.

 

But I still think your missing my arguments about peak vs. off-peak service. Just look at the costs associated with peak hour service (the original webpage I gave you with the stats expired, so here is a page that still has them: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Aha-LfXMlWNBdGplTGJUVm9oZ25DT3JLRWRjbzZkT2c#gid=3).

 

Jay Walder was complaining that express bus drivers get paid 1/2 time (so if they normally get paid $30/hr, they get paid $15/hr) for sitting around in the depot doing nothing. I'm not going to say whether they should or shouldn't get that benefit, but having them do off-peak runs would be cheaper.

 

Let me show you what I mean. If an express bus driver gets paid $30/hr, and they work a split shift (4 hours in the morning and 4 hours in the afternoon), they get paid $240. In addition, they get paid $60 in the middle of the day, for a total of $300. You can have them do runs on the local buses in the middle of the day, but, with overtime, you end up with the same effect anyway.

 

If the service is less peaky, you can just pay them $240 for their regular 8 hour shift. They get paid for the work they have done: No more, no less. The MTA is happy because they saved the money, and the B/O is probably happy as well, as they can see their family for 4 more hours.

 

As far as the X27/X28 go, the only time they wanted to eliminate weekday service was back in 1995, when they wanted to eliminate the whole express bus system outside of Staten Island (which, if you think about it, isn't much because we have most of the express bus services anyway). After everybody protested, they backed off. But you notice how I said non-Staten Island routes. Our service is in no danger of being eliminated because there are no comparable alternatives.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Certain routes do come close to breaking even in terms of operating costs. Those stats I gave you show that the X27/X37 was actually the cheapest express bus in the system, costing around $6.50 per person, meaning that it made back roughly 66% of its operating costs, which is on par with many of the local routes in the system.

 

On the weekends, the X1 and X10 come close to breaking even, making back roughly 83% and 74% of their operating expenses, respectively.

 

But I still think your missing my arguments about peak vs. off-peak service. Just look at the costs associated with peak hour service (the original webpage I gave you with the stats expired, so here is a page that still has them: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Aha-LfXMlWNBdGplTGJUVm9oZ25DT3JLRWRjbzZkT2c#gid=3).

 

Jay Walder was complaining that express bus drivers get paid 1/2 time (so if they normally get paid $30/hr, they get paid $15/hr) for sitting around in the depot doing nothing. I'm not going to say whether they should or shouldn't get that benefit, but having them do off-peak runs would be cheaper.

 

Let me show you what I mean. If an express bus driver gets paid $30/hr, and they work a split shift (4 hours in the morning and 4 hours in the afternoon), they get paid $240. In addition, they get paid $60 in the middle of the day, for a total of $300. You can have them do runs on the local buses in the middle of the day, but, with overtime, you end up with the same effect anyway.

 

If the service is less peaky, you can just pay them $240 for their regular 8 hour shift. They get paid for the work they have done: No more, no less. The MTA is happy because they saved the money, and the B/O is probably happy as well, as they can see their family for 4 more hours.

 

As far as the X27/X28 go, the only time they wanted to eliminate weekday service was back in 1995, when they wanted to eliminate the whole express bus system outside of Staten Island (which, if you think about it, isn't much because we have most of the express bus services anyway). After everybody protested, they backed off. But you notice how I said non-Staten Island routes. Our service is in no danger of being eliminated because there are no comparable alternatives.

 

I understand exactly what you're saying, and I still disagree. The express bus is a premium fare and it's not a local bus. The premium fare should be charged at all times because those who can't afford it can use the local bus. For $5.50 you get your own headlights, comfy seats and most imporantly a quiet ride usually, and I don't want that sacrificed by lowering it at the cost of bringing riff raff from the local bus.

 

We get enough noise on the X10 and X1 as it is with the $5.50 fare from time to time with the brats on the weekends and if it were made any lower it would be a zoo on the bus. Let those folks take the local bus. It's not as if Staten Islanders overall are poor. We have the highest income overall of all New Yorkers, so money is not an issue for most of us. Those who are poor use the local bus and if they really have issues with the commute they can move to somewhere else where they can commute faster on the local bus or subway. You have to understand that the express bus isn't all about the faster ride. It's also about those who want a quiet commute and don't want the riff raff. Keeping the price at a premium rate will ensure that the express buses remain nice. I still personally think that it should be $6.50 or $7.00 each way and then we'd eliminate the few loud obnoxious jerks that ride on the weekends. :mad:

[checkmatechamp13]

There are 2 aspects to the plan. The first is that the MTA would lose revenue and/or spend additional money running extra buses, which I offered my explanation to (that was what I thought you weren't understanding).

 

As far as the comfort factor goes, I'll take your word that there is riff-raff riding when the fare is $5.50 (maybe I've just gotten lucky when I've taken the express bus)

 

BTW, since income is a statistic, and, as you know, I like researching statistics, I've found out that Manhattan has the highest income of the 5 boroughs ($68,706 vs. $66,292). For some reason (at least, according to city-data's stats) the outer boroughs have had their median income decrease this past year, while Manhattan's median income has remained constant.

 

In terms of per capita income, Manhattan's always been the highest ($61,992 vs. $29,555)

 

http://www.city-data.com/city/Manhattan-New-York.html

http://www.city-data.com/city/Staten-Island-New-York.html

[Via Garibaldi 8]

There are 2 aspects to the plan. The first is that the MTA would lose revenue and/or spend additional money running extra buses, which I offered my explanation to (that was what I thought you weren't understanding).

 

As far as the comfort factor goes, I'll take your word that there is riff-raff riding when the fare is $5.50 (maybe I've just gotten lucky when I've taken the express bus)

 

BTW, since income is a statistic, and, as you know, I like researching statistics, I've found out that Manhattan has the highest income of the 5 boroughs ($68,706 vs. $66,292). For some reason (at least, according to city-data's stats) the outer boroughs have had their median income decrease this past year, while Manhattan's median income has remained constant.

 

In terms of per capita income, Manhattan's always been the highest ($61,992 vs. $29,555)

 

http://www.city-data.com/city/Manhattan-New-York.html

http://www.city-data.com/city/Staten-Island-New-York.html

 

 

In 2007 Staten Island's Median Household Income was $66,985 compared to Manhattan's Median Household Income, which was $64,217. We had the lowest percentage of poverty at 9.8%, with only Queens being closer at 12.0%. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_York_City

 

As far as riff raff, going to the city yesterday on the X10 was quiet, but coming back, there was a family that decided to take refuge in the back of the express bus which basically the regulars knew to avoid, since we knew that there would be noise from the kids yelling and such. The parents knew what was going on hence why they kept "sushing" the kids, which didn't seem to help all that much. Then a few more folks got on. One had this radio or some sort of device blasting about (not near me) but enough for an Asian to get annoyed. She turned around and said in her accent "Hey, that['s] really loud" in an annoyed tone. The male and his son turned it down a bit and off eventually, but then we had the "out-of-towners" get on that talk about everything under the sun. In sum, the weekend crowd can consist of non-regulars that just don't shut up. $5.50 for them is like a cab ride, so they'll treat themselves on the weekend because they don't want to be bothered with the ferry, hence why I support raising it.

 

Between the sh*tty ferry service and the constant train lines under rehab in the city, folks will always look to take the express bus regardless of the fare and they would even at $6.50 or $7.00 on the weekends. I do know which times they tend to be quieter, but last night I wanted to get home and watch the hockey games so I took a 19:30 bus home, which I figured would be a little loud because it fills up nicely. The later in the afternoon you go to the city the quieter it will be and going in it was just mainly regulars that were quiet.

 

Now the BM3, folks on the weekends are always quiet because the crowd consists of well off folks (homeowners and such) and mature folks who don't want to deal with the bulls*t on the subway. They want a quiet ride and so it is always quiet no matter when I take it, weekdays or weekends. The same is true of the BM1 too when I've taken it.

 

I've also used the X17 from time to time on Saturdays and even in the morning when the bus was crowded it was quiet.

[checkmatechamp13]

I don't know which statistics are more accurate (mine are from 2009, whereas yours are from 2007), but you can use different statistics to prove your point.

 

Staten Island has a (slightly) higher income because it has more married-couple families with children, whereas Manhattan has more single people and elderly widows/widowers. That is why I like to use per capita income (median per capita income would probably be best) when referring to these statistics, because they more accurately depict how much money each person is actually getting.

 

And poverty can also be skewed as a statistic. For example, on the Upper East Side, 7% of the people manage to live with incomes below the poverty level. That obviously doesn't imply that it is the same as a middle-class area in the outer boroughs or suburbs where 7% of the people live in poverty. (It can be used to show an unequal distribution of wealth, so an area with a higher poverty level might have many more rich people to balance them out)

 

In any case, I think there probably would be an outcry if the express bus fare was raised, even if it meant less riff-raff riding it. Just because people can afford it doesn't necessarily mean that they want to spend the money. Just look what happened with congestion pricing.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I don't know which statistics are more accurate (mine are from 2009, whereas yours are from 2007), but you can use different statistics to prove your point.

 

Staten Island has a (slightly) higher income because it has more married-couple families with children, whereas Manhattan has more single people and elderly widows/widowers. That is why I like to use per capita income (median per capita income would probably be best) when referring to these statistics, because they more accurately depict how much money each person is actually getting.

 

And poverty can also be skewed as a statistic. For example, on the Upper East Side, 7% of the people manage to live with incomes below the poverty level. That obviously doesn't imply that it is the same as a middle-class area in the outer boroughs or suburbs where 7% of the people live in poverty. (It can be used to show an unequal distribution of wealth, so an area with a higher poverty level might have many more rich people to balance them out)

 

In any case, I think there probably would be an outcry if the express bus fare was raised, even if it meant less riff-raff riding it. Just because people can afford it doesn't necessarily mean that they want to spend the money. Just look what happened with congestion pricing.

 

There was a black guy on the X30 who gets on sometimes at Richmond and Forest. He was sitting there b*thcing over the fare going up from $5.25 to $5.50 and I'm thinking is this guy f*cking serious? If he can't afford a quarter then he should be on the local bus. From 2006 - 2011, my Express Bus Plus card has gone up $9.00 from $41.00 to $45.00 and from $45.00 to $50.00, respectively, an increase of $468.00, almost $500.00 per year. If anything I should be the one crying. Mind you that guy still rides the X30 from time to time so the whole b*tching and moaning was just for show. Friggin cheap prick. :mad:

[checkmatechamp13]

I meant riders in general.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I meant riders in general.

 

Yes, I know and there's always an outcry. Of course for the increase I would expect better service...

[checkmatechamp13]

But, in general, do you think express bus riders would prefer lower fares or less riff-raff at a higher fare? Remember: A lot of express bus riders travel on weekdays, when it is fairly quiet.

 

Also, a higher fare on a local bus might bring better service, since there is really no cheaper way to get around (you might find some people walking when the fare goes up, but those people are in the minority). On the express bus, however, there is usually a decrease in ridership when the fare is increased.

 

I kept the service reduction/fare increase booklet from the 2009 hearing and it said that they would reduce service in anticipation of ridership loss, and increase service slightly on some of the parallel local lines. You would definitely see a reduction in service and, immediately after the fare increase, you would probably be faced with overcrowded buses.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

But, in general, do you think express bus riders would prefer lower fares or less riff-raff at a higher fare? Remember: A lot of express bus riders travel on weekdays, when it is fairly quiet.

 

Also, a higher fare on a local bus might bring better service, since there is really no cheaper way to get around (you might find some people walking when the fare goes up, but those people are in the minority). On the express bus, however, there is usually a decrease in ridership when the fare is increased.

 

I kept the service reduction/fare increase booklet from the 2009 hearing and it said that they would reduce service in anticipation of ridership loss, and increase service slightly on some of the parallel local lines. You would definitely see a reduction in service and, immediately after the fare increase, you would probably be faced with overcrowded buses.

 

They expected express bus service to decrease after the cuts because of the economy and it's been anything but. The X1s are still packed as are most of the other lines, so much so that they've had to add runs. Dont underestimate what folks will pay for the express bus, especially on the South Shore. They especially will not give up the express bus unless they absolutely cannot afford it. They in particular are more likely to stay on the express bus even during traffic jams because they refuse to use the subway.

[Gorgor]

Well like previously said, people who use the express buses use it to avoid the subway, and I'm pretty sure raising the fare wouldn't make the majority change their minds. Even up a dollar or two I think that the MTA would make more money off of it.

 

Sort of related, but I have to take the in the mornings which is ABSOLUTE HELL, but if they hadn't killed the X90 I would be taking that every day. I'd be willing to pay $10 or even more for that if I had to, and I'm pretty sure most of the other people who rode it would also and they'd agree with me that it beats having to squeeze in the train, assuming that there's even room on the first few ones, and it's a nice quiet ride that you're guaranteed a seat on.

[checkmatechamp13]

They expected express bus service to decrease after the cuts because of the economy and it's been anything but. The X1s are still packed as are most of the other lines, so much so that they've had to add runs. Dont underestimate what folks will pay for the express bus, especially on the South Shore. They especially will not give up the express bus unless they absolutely cannot afford it. They in particular are more likely to stay on the express bus even during traffic jams because they refuse to use the subway.

 

I'd probably do the same thing if I wasn't in a hurry. Why give up your seat on a soft express bus to take the subway if you have plenty of time to get to your destination?

 

Then again, you never know if they don't know the subway system well. Not everybody is like the people on these forums as far as their knowledge of the transit system.

 

Well like previously said, people who use the express buses use it to avoid the subway, and I'm pretty sure raising the fare wouldn't make the majority change their minds. Even up a dollar or two I think that the MTA would make more money off of it.

 

Sort of related, but I have to take the in the mornings which is ABSOLUTE HELL, but if they hadn't killed the X90 I would be taking that every day. I'd be willing to pay $10 or even more for that if I had to, and I'm pretty sure most of the other people who rode it would also and they'd agree with me that it beats having to squeeze in the train, assuming that there's even room on the first few ones, and it's a nice quiet ride that you're guaranteed a seat on.

 

It depends. For a good portion of them, the reason may not be to avoid the subway: The main reason could be because it is faster. In that case, if a person can't afford to pay the full fare, they'll simply wake up earlier and take the local bus and subway.

 

For some areas, if they simply sped up the local service, they might not need as much express bus service. If the S79 had a limited or +SBS+, I'm sure that some people might take the S79 to the (and then transfer to the or if they need Midtown), rather than take the express bus (especially those closer to the Verrazanno-Narrows Bridge, north of, say Dongan Hills)

 

Like I've said before, I think it is a waste that off-peak, there is a whole bus lane on the SIE being used by only 1 express bus running every 30-45 minutes (the X17). If they ran a local service and made it so that it connected with different neighborhoods in Brooklyn (of course, it would probably still have to connect to the ), it would probably get decent ridership and take a good number of cars off of the road.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'd probably do the same thing if I wasn't in a hurry. Why give up your seat on a soft express bus to take the subway if you have plenty of time to get to your destination?

 

Then again, you never know if they don't know the subway system well. Not everybody is like the people on these forums as far as their knowledge of the transit system.

 

 

 

It depends. For a good portion of them, the reason may not be to avoid the subway: The main reason could be because it is faster. In that case, if a person can't afford to pay the full fare, they'll simply wake up earlier and take the local bus and subway.

 

For some areas, if they simply sped up the local service, they might not need as much express bus service. If the S79 had a limited or +SBS+, I'm sure that some people might take the S79 to the (and then transfer to the or if they need Midtown), rather than take the express bus (especially those closer to the Verrazanno-Narrows Bridge, north of, say Dongan Hills)

 

Like I've said before, I think it is a waste that off-peak, there is a whole bus lane on the SIE being used by only 1 express bus running every 30-45 minutes (the X17). If they ran a local service and made it so that it connected with different neighborhoods in Brooklyn (of course, it would probably still have to connect to the ), it would probably get decent ridership and take a good number of cars off of the road.

 

Whenever I go to the city on the weekends I usually avoid the subway unless I absolutely have to because just about every line is under construction so you're better off taking the bus for short distances. I was doing a little work in the office today and wanted some decent grub so I caught an (M4) at 43rd and 5th and took it over to 42nd and 5th and caught the (M2) that had pulled on. He made one stop at 33rd and then made his last stop @ 26th street. I walked from there to 14th to Whole Foods. Was just as fast as the subway since the and were all running local from 42nd to 14th.

 

Regarding the SIE lane, you can think the car jerks for clogging up the HOV lane. Too many folks were using it when no one was carpooling so they made it a bus lane only since the cars were slowing down the express buses. Now they're considering allowing cars to use the lane sometimes.

 

Regarding the idea of a local bus connecting to other parts of Brooklyn an express bus would best serve that purpose, otherwise having to take the local bus to the slow @ss to the is just a waste. Nothing runs in sink. I used to go that way at night sometimes when I was back in college and working down here in the city during the my breaks. I'd take the and we would fly down to 59th and then you stand there and wait and wait and wait and 15-20 minutes later an comes finally just in time for you to miss and (S53), so in sum it's still a slow go and too many connections.

 

Much quicker on the express bus to get to Southern Brooklyn because you can time everything better and there's only two connections: one express bus to another.

[checkmatechamp13]

The original intention of the bus route was to serve Southern Brooklyn directly, but then I decided it would be better for it to detour to the for people going to places along 4th Avenue (as well as transfer to the buses in Bay Ridge such as the B16)

 

I was thinking that, if the MTA could get a permit to run a bus on the Belt Parkway, the route could exit at 92nd Street, go down 4th Avenue to serve the 95th Street station, and then go onto the Belt Parkway. It could then exit at Cropsey Avenue in Coney Island, go down Neptune Avenue and Emmons Avenue (filling in the gap caused by the elimination of the B4 off-peak). It could then go down Knapp Street and Avenue U, serve Kings Plaza, and then go back onto the Belt Parkway. It could make a stop in Canarsie, Starrett City, and the Gateway Mall. After that, it can go to JFK Airport.

 

If this is too ambitious, it can simply terminate in Sheepshead Bay. However, I think that, by serving JFK Airport, it would also be a good route for Southern Brooklyn residents to take to JFK.

 

As an alternative, the route can go down 92nd Street, 4th Avenue, 86th Street (serving the 86th Street station), and 14th Avenue, and then use the Belt Parkway to go to Neptune Avenue.

 

Remember: The MTA isn't affected as badly as drivers as far as rising fuel prices are concerned, and a lot of the areas near the Belt Parkway are poorly connected to each other by public transportation. If the service runs frequently enough, it could attract riders from Brooklyn and from Staten Island.

 

BTW, as far as your trip from Southern Brooklyn to Staten Island goes, that is why I'm glad that the B1 was rerouted to serve 86th Street. Even though on weekdays, it is faster to take the subway, it definitely saves you the hassle of having to go up and down steps to transfer.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The original intention of the bus route was to serve Southern Brooklyn directly, but then I decided it would be better for it to detour to the for people going to places along 4th Avenue (as well as transfer to the buses in Bay Ridge such as the B16)

 

I was thinking that, if the MTA could get a permit to run a bus on the Belt Parkway, the route could exit at 92nd Street, go down 4th Avenue to serve the 95th Street station, and then go onto the Belt Parkway. It could then exit at Cropsey Avenue in Coney Island, go down Neptune Avenue and Emmons Avenue (filling in the gap caused by the elimination of the B4 off-peak). It could then go down Knapp Street and Avenue U, serve Kings Plaza, and then go back onto the Belt Parkway. It could make a stop in Canarsie, Starrett City, and the Gateway Mall. After that, it can go to JFK Airport.

 

If this is too ambitious, it can simply terminate in Sheepshead Bay. However, I think that, by serving JFK Airport, it would also be a good route for Southern Brooklyn residents to take to JFK.

 

As an alternative, the route can go down 92nd Street, 4th Avenue, 86th Street (serving the 86th Street station), and 14th Avenue, and then use the Belt Parkway to go to Neptune Avenue.

 

Remember: The MTA isn't affected as badly as drivers as far as rising fuel prices are concerned, and a lot of the areas near the Belt Parkway are poorly connected to each other by public transportation. If the service runs frequently enough, it could attract riders from Brooklyn and from Staten Island.

 

BTW, as far as your trip from Southern Brooklyn to Staten Island goes, that is why I'm glad that the B1 was rerouted to serve 86th Street. Even though on weekdays, it is faster to take the subway, it definitely saves you the hassle of having to go up and down steps to transfer.

 

 

The plan sounds good, but the amount of places it would serve sounds like your speech. It's a lot of swallow aka a bit ambitious. That bus would just meandor wayyy to much. :eek:

 

It would be good to make it a limited stop bus or an express bus, otherwise I don't see it being too successful.