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NJT 2040 plans Light Rail & Regional Rail


Nexis4Jersey

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I'm curious about the Bergen-Passaic LRT idea. Does some of the stops that is proposed stops along any of the major bus routes, like the 165 or the 166 in particular? I ask since I see Ridgefield Park and Hackensack on the list. I would think that if those get build soon, the overcrowding on some of the bus lines like the 166 to Tenafly and the 165 to Hackensack would be greatly reduced tremendously.

 

Another thing I'm curious is if the other stations that the NWR light rail is building is complete, would that increase the fare? If I was to take the 11/28/29/74 to Grove Street Bus Stop, next to the Grove Street NLR Station, next to the NWK Light Rail garage, That's 2.35 since the fare zone is Belmont Ave and Bloomfield Ave. Yet, people can take the Lightrail and pay one zone, 1.50, and save .85 cents. So, I would assume that if the other stations are built, there would be a fare increase, but how would that be enforced since there are two legs of the NLR - the Broad St. Branch which is a 1.50 fare for it's short distance, and the Main Line. It's almost as if, in my opinion, that NLR needs to have a better system to enforce the fares, or NLR might start to turn out like Hudson Bergen Lightrail - Barely anyone pays and there is barely any NJT Police enforcement like it should be. Hell, when I was driving on Bergenline and people wanted to go to the lightrail, I ask if they want a transfer, since the TFR is an acceptable form of payment. People would say, WHAT FOR? NO ONE EVER CHECKS....... That's what I'm afraid of.

 

1. Keep in mind i posted the BPLRT plans from Bergen County and not NJT which decided to not only leave out towns , but bus connections. So Bergen County has asked NJT to add those stations in , which would generate a higher ridership ,and connect into redevelopment plans. Yes it would connect to bus routes in both counties aswell as Rail lines.

 

2. Yea , idk why NJT doesn't put fare gates on the NLR considering most of the system was designed to have it. There are ticket inspectors at Penn station and from what ive heard compared to the HBLR fare evasion is lower , but it could be even lower. Installing Turnstiles on the HBLR will be hard due to the design of the stations , its not impossible but will cost alot , there newer stations are built with the option in mind. But your right, barely anyone checks or they send 3 ppl to question and ticket one person. Which absurd , and the fact that for less then 100 Million $ , both systems could get gates makes me want to know who runs NJT bus services?

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Why are almost all of the rail line projects ending @ Hoboken? They can't go into NY Penn?

 

There mostly Diesel so they go into Hoboken , with the ALP45DP's this will change to NYP for half the trains. But Hoboken is the Main Terminal for NJT , when there's an issue with the tunnels all Midtown Direct service goes to Hoboken. Jersey City and Lower Manhattan are starting to see more Rail commuters each year , thus more Hoboken bound trains..... There currently upgrading the station to handle this , the New Ferry Terminal opens in a few weeks , the Upgraded PATH station will be completed in a few months , the Upper Floors of the Terminal will be converted into Office / Retail Space , the Bus Terminal will be moved and replaced. There are 3 large scale Developments and Offices proposed / planned for right next to the Terminal. At this rate Demand for Hoboken will be = to NYP by 2025. You can also switch if you want to go to NYC at certain stations.

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1. Keep in mind i posted the BPLRT plans from Bergen County and not NJT which decided to not only leave out towns , but bus connections. So Bergen County has asked NJT to add those stations in , which would generate a higher ridership ,and connect into redevelopment plans. Yes it would connect to bus routes in both counties aswell as Rail lines.

 

2. Yea , idk why NJT doesn't put fare gates on the NLR considering most of the system was designed to have it. There are ticket inspectors at Penn station and from what ive heard compared to the HBLR fare evasion is lower , but it could be even lower. Installing Turnstiles on the HBLR will be hard due to the design of the stations , its not impossible but will cost alot , there newer stations are built with the option in mind. But your right, barely anyone checks or they send 3 ppl to question and ticket one person. Which absurd , and the fact that for less then 100 Million $ , both systems could get gates makes me want to know who runs NJT bus services?

 

Someone who is cheap and doesn't care really.

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Someone who is cheap and doesn't care really.

 

Well it needs to be addressed , its costing the state more to operate these Urban Rail systems then the lightly used Regional Rail lines. The HBLR is the big problem , most of the fare evasions occur here with the NLR and Riverline having very few issues.... HBLR are the highest of the 3 systems , the HBLR is and will always be the most used of the 3 systems but the fare evasion issue needs to be addressed. LA , Seattle , Boston , Toronto ,San Diego , Philly , and SF all plan or use Fare gates for there statons why can't NJT do the same? Its not that hard....Alot of cities that have recently installed LRT see the costs of operating those lines lower then buses , why can't NJT be like that?

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Well it needs to be addressed , its costing the state more to operate these Urban Rail systems then the lightly used Regional Rail lines. The HBLR is the big problem , most of the fare evasions occur here with the NLR and Riverline having very few issues.... HBLR are the highest of the 3 systems , the HBLR is and will always be the most used of the 3 systems but the fare evasion issue needs to be addressed. LA , Seattle , Boston , Toronto ,San Diego , Philly , and SF all plan or use Fare gates for there statons why can't NJT do the same? Its not that hard....Alot of cities that have recently installed LRT see the costs of operating those lines lower then buses , why can't NJT be like that?

The problem is as you already addressed is that most of the system is very open. Believe me, I'm on the same page as you are with this issue. It would be costly, but worth it in the end to install fare control gates. Quite a few stations it can be done easily, and as you already stated as well, some of the newer stations were built in a way to install fare control gates if need be.

 

About the fare inspectors though on HBLR, lately I've been seeing them pop up at different stations every day at random times of the day. Everyday I ride the system at least 2 times, some days I'm on the system up to 4 or 5 times running errands and such. The fare inspectors seem to get NJT PD to tag along with them too. On the NLR though (sorry folks, get with the times), I almost never see fare inspectors, even at Newark Penn. I don't ride the system frequently, but every now and then I do. Can't speak on the RiverLINE, I'm not down in South Jersey all that much to ride it. Although the couple of times I did ride it, I saw fare inspectors once at one of the Trenton stops.

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I noticed that south of Aberdeen/Matawan, there is a line that branches off and continues as a bike trail through Keyport, Union Beach, Keansburg and ends near the Atlantic Highlands. Does anybody know when that branch was abandoned, and when it was converted into a bike trail? And does anybody think that there could be demand for rail service on that line (even as a shuttle to Aberdeen/Matawan)? Those areas are relatively densely populated.

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I noticed that south of Aberdeen/Matawan, there is a line that branches off and continues as a bike trail through Keyport, Union Beach, Keansburg and ends near the Atlantic Highlands. Does anybody know when that branch was abandoned, and when it was converted into a bike trail? And does anybody think that there could be demand for rail service on that line (even as a shuttle to Aberdeen/Matawan)? Those areas are relatively densely populated.

 

Two words, Preserved Trail. NJ Transit never owned that line, that line was the Highlands Branch of the CNJ. It was abandoned in 60's. It's now the northern Henry Hudson Trail. (Matawan-Atlantic Highlands)

The South part of the Henry Hudson Trail is the part that's in question. it's owned by NJ Transit and the contract is, if NJ Transit wanted to convert that trail to railroad again, it's can. (Matawan-Freehold)

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So then the chances of that rail line getting restored are slim to none, then?

 

How is ridership on the #817 in that area? I would think that, since those are fairly dense, working class areas that it would do well, but has no Sunday service and only runs every hour.

 

I wonder if the rail line from Matawan to Freehold would cause some development along the line in the intermediate areas. Currently, those are the only two areas that have a large population density.

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So then the chances of that rail line getting restored are slim to none, then?

 

How is ridership on the #817 in that area? I would think that, since those are fairly dense, working class areas that it would do well, but has no Sunday service and only runs every hour.

 

I wonder if the rail line from Matawan to Freehold would cause some development along the line in the intermediate areas. Currently, those are the only two areas that have a large population density.

 

It's decent however the academy buses see more at rush hour cause they run like city buses at rush!!!! and the lack of connectivity isn't helping 817. My NJT plan corrects the 817 by splitting segments off onto 2 regional rtes that go express to essex county with intermidiate stops.

 

The 817 carries average loads

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Can you please go ONE thread without mentioning your plans? Just stick to the topic at hand. Please. PLEASE WITH A CHERRY ON TOP.

 

Pablo, the times that I took NLR (Or NWK City Subway for the old schoolers), there was ZERO enforcement on the rails. Yet, there were NJT PD cars at some of the stops. Broad Ave, Branch Brook Park, Grove Street, and sometimes NWK Penn Station. But, I agree with you, Pablo, and Nexis. NJT is DRAINING money into HBLR, and should have enforcements on it to make sure the people that are riding them are paying customers, either tickets, transfers, or monthly passes. NJT will probably raise the fares again if they don't do something to stop the bleeding.

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Can you please go ONE thread without mentioning your plans? Just stick to the topic at hand. Please. PLEASE WITH A CHERRY ON TOP.

 

Pablo, the times that I took NLR (Or NWK City Subway for the old schoolers), there was ZERO enforcement on the rails. Yet, there were NJT PD cars at some of the stops. Broad Ave, Branch Brook Park, Grove Street, and sometimes NWK Penn Station. But, I agree with you, Pablo, and Nexis. NJT is DRAINING money into HBLR, and should have enforcements on it to make sure the people that are riding them are paying customers, either tickets, transfers, or monthly passes. NJT will probably raise the fares again if they don't do something to stop the bleeding.

 

But the HBLR shouldn't be bleeding $$$ , since its used the most....

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But the HBLR shouldn't be bleeding $$$ , since its used the most....

 

I ask myself that same question if its used the most why does it still bleed the most money???? It should make money!!! wouldnt the millville line make money when created??? Most of the time I see like everyone paying their fare at rush hour on HBLR well most of the time cause they are scared of fare enforcers but they need more than fear to stop the fare beaters who know when they can get a free ride.

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Can you please go ONE thread without mentioning your plans? Just stick to the topic at hand. Please. PLEASE WITH A CHERRY ON TOP.

 

Pablo, the times that I took NLR (Or NWK City Subway for the old schoolers), there was ZERO enforcement on the rails. Yet, there were NJT PD cars at some of the stops. Broad Ave, Branch Brook Park, Grove Street, and sometimes NWK Penn Station. But, I agree with you, Pablo, and Nexis. NJT is DRAINING money into HBLR, and should have enforcements on it to make sure the people that are riding them are paying customers, either tickets, transfers, or monthly passes. NJT will probably raise the fares again if they don't do something to stop the bleeding.

 

Sorry I meant to say 817 has average ridership. Speaking of which does 817 carry heavy at times???

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Can you please go ONE thread without mentioning your plans? Just stick to the topic at hand. Please. PLEASE WITH A CHERRY ON TOP.

 

Pablo, the times that I took NLR (Or NWK City Subway for the old schoolers), there was ZERO enforcement on the rails. Yet, there were NJT PD cars at some of the stops. Broad Ave, Branch Brook Park, Grove Street, and sometimes NWK Penn Station. But, I agree with you, Pablo, and Nexis. NJT is DRAINING money into HBLR, and should have enforcements on it to make sure the people that are riding them are paying customers, either tickets, transfers, or monthly passes. NJT will probably raise the fares again if they don't do something to stop the bleeding.

 

But the HBLR shouldn't be bleeding $$$ , since its used the most....

 

Most of HBLR's daily riders carry monthly already anyway, especially those that use buses. So the money there is already received at NJT. Not saying that to escape the fact that you do have people who ride on a daily basis without paying. Someday they will get caught. The number of fare evaders is high, but there is still a decent amount of people who pay their fare. Another thing is some fare inspectors let some people off too easy with a warning, and this is even with repeat offenders. Heh, what do I know.

 

BTW SJP, leave it alone bro. Your energy input into this "plan" was more than enough. I knew what that dude was all about.....

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Most of HBLR's daily riders carry monthly already anyway, especially those that use buses. So the money there is already received at NJT. Not saying that to escape the fact that you do have people who ride on a daily basis without paying. Someday they will get caught. The number of fare evaders is high, but there is still a decent amount of people who pay their fare. Another thing is some fare inspectors let some people off too easy with a warning, and this is even with repeat offenders. Heh, what do I know.

 

BTW SJP, leave it alone bro. Your energy input into this "plan" was more than enough. I knew what that dude was all about.....

 

do you??? I said I was done with it now we are talking about LRT. I already gathered the info I needed for it anyway I am almost finished I only used the forum to learn more about the system cause the planning guy only gave me ridership numbers which wasn't good enough cause I knew my plan had flaws and had to be developed I overlooked the 409 cause it had a unique segment and I was only thinking about merging that made some of my ideas flawed in a sense. So I came here to find out what was flawed in my plans so I corrected accordingly the final part is busfanning thats all.

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Most of HBLR's daily riders carry monthly already anyway, especially those that use buses. So the money there is already received at NJT. Not saying that to escape the fact that you do have people who ride on a daily basis without paying. Someday they will get caught. The number of fare evaders is high, but there is still a decent amount of people who pay their fare. Another thing is some fare inspectors let some people off too easy with a warning, and this is even with repeat offenders. Heh, what do I know.

 

Peeps be fare beating the RiverLine like crazy. The only time you see those "blue shirt" idiots is when they feel like showing up. And when they do show up they ride for one stop and you never see them again. Alot of the peeps have a monthly but still too many are beating the fare. I remember one time I took the RiverLine and I had ma ipod on and my id around my neck(I knew he seen it) so I pretended I didnt see him and he asked me if he could see it and I told him to get the **** outta ma face. Of the million times I been on the RiverLine I saw these peeps 3 times.

 

Njt needs to come up with a better idea with fare options for the Light Rails; although I do understand Light Rails are open systems and its nearly impossible to close the system. Maybe come up with a smartcard system you have to buy in order to ride unless you have a monthly pass. I know they lose a ton of money to fare beaters. Maybe install turnstyles to enter the station and you would slide the smartcard(like PATH/PATCO).

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Peeps be fare beating the RiverLine like crazy. The only time you see those "blue shirt" idiots is when they feel like showing up. And when they do show up they ride for one stop and you never see them again. Alot of the peeps have a monthly but still too many are beating the fare. I remember one time I took the RiverLine and I had ma ipod on and my id around my neck(I knew he seen it) so I pretended I didnt see him and he asked me if he could see it and I told him to get the **** outta ma face. Of the million times I been on the RiverLine I saw these peeps 3 times.

 

Njt needs to come up with a better idea with fare options for the Light Rails; although I do understand Light Rails are open systems and its nearly impossible to close the system. Maybe come up with a smartcard system you have to buy in order to ride unless you have a monthly pass. I know they lose a ton of money to fare beaters. Maybe install turnstyles to enter the station and you would slide the smartcard(like PATH/PATCO).

 

Boston uses smartcards on there system and gates at there Urban stations and it works just fine. Melbourne uses Smartcards on there huge tram system and it works just fine with 500,000+ ppl. You need to have readers on-board but that will guarantee ppl buying tickets....or at least most ppl,

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Jersey Railways - Japanese themed NJ Transit / Rail map - 2050

JR North - all NJT / MNRR lines that head North out of Hoboken

JR Central - All lines that run North to South in the Central part of NJ

JR West - All lines that head West out of Hoboken

JR Coastal - All lines that run near or terminate near the Ocean

JR Suburban - Suburban Diesel or Electric Light Rail

JR Urban - All Urban Light Rail

JR Urban Metrorail - All Urban Heavy Rail

 

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=215312482559953359515.0004970d6c64a2309ebed&msa=0&ll=40.296287,-73.751221&spn=4.432109,9.876709

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