If The (5) Ever Was Extended Late Nights

[Luis1985]

i say let the Southbound end at either 42 St-Grand Central, or at Bowling Green during late nights.

 

Same goes for the , id say it have it run on the line to South Ferry late nights.

[Vistausss]

heh and then going back to Bowling Green will go further back to Flatbush. Id just keep it how it is, or send it to Mott Ave.

 

Is it possible that the can extend its OPTO from 180th to Mott ave instead?

 

And i forgot the city tickets on the weekends which is 3.75. But still does not serve a purpose if your just gonna transfer from the Subway to the RR.. Makes no sense going from 125 to GCT..

 

Well, one thing is clear which you didn't predict: who says it will be a free transfer? There are lots of subway stations where you don't have a free transfer, so who says this is gonna be a free transfer? Maybe it won't get a free transfer. In that case it doesn't matter that much if you take the subway or MNRR.

[Wallyhorse]

i say let the Southbound end at either 42 St-Grand Central, or at Bowling Green during late nights.

 

Same goes for the , id say it have it run on the line to South Ferry late nights.

 

What about having the and terminate late nights at Brooklyn Bridge, with the being express at all times and the joining the as a local? That would eliminate switching at Brooklyn Bridge if it were done that way if you want the into Manhattan in the overnights.

[Vistausss]

What about having the and terminate late nights at Brooklyn Bridge, with the being express at all times and the joining the as a local? That would eliminate switching at Brooklyn Bridge if it were done that way if you want the into Manhattan in the overnights.

 

Or you could just loop the around City Hall Loop.

[Wallyhorse]

Or you could just loop the around City Hall Loop.

 

That's exactly what I would be looking at doing by having the be local (while the went to being an express 24/7) during the overnight hours. The and would both terminate at BB and go through the loop at City Hall.

[Shortline Bus]

That's exactly what I would be looking at doing by having the be local (while the went to being an express 24/7) during the overnight hours. The and would both terminate at BB and go through the loop at City Hall.

 

While extending the to Brooklyn Bridge or even Bowling Green would be ideal, I doubt the (MTA)will agree to it on the issue of $$$ and expensives.

 

Thus that why if we lucky, if ever the (5)would be extended to 149-GC(my prediction)or 42/Grand Central overnights. I think 125th/Lex would cause too much congestion w/ both the and lines even with 20-30 minute headways each.

[GreatOne2k]

While extending the to Brooklyn Bridge or even Bowling Green would be ideal, I doubt the (MTA)will agree to it on the issue of $$$ and expensives.

 

Thus that why if we lucky, if ever the (5)would be extended to 149-GC(my prediction)or 42/Grand Central overnights. I think 125th/Lex would cause too much congestion w/ both the and lines even with 20-30 minute headways each.

 

Sometimes the runs to 149 St GC during late nights. Cold Weather plans used to extend the at 149 St. Also there was a GO that had the late night trains running to 149 St last year.

[Kacie Jane]

Well, one thing is clear which you didn't predict: who says it will be a free transfer? There are lots of subway stations where you don't have a free transfer, so who says this is gonna be a free transfer? Maybe it won't get a free transfer. In that case it doesn't matter that much if you take the subway or MNRR.

 

I'm sorry. Did you read the thread before you posted? We're not talking about building anything new here. We're talking about extending the late night to 125th Street (or some other station) so they can transfer across the platform (or down the stairs or even on the same track) to the .

 

Ummm, yeah, it's a free transfer.

[Rell]

Well, one thing is clear which you didn't predict: who says it will be a free transfer? There are lots of subway stations where you don't have a free transfer, so who says this is gonna be a free transfer? Maybe it won't get a free transfer. In that case it doesn't matter that much if you take the subway or MNRR.

 

What are you talking about, exactly? The MNRR to the at 125 St, or the to the ?

because if it's the latter, walking across a platform/down 2 flights of stairs doesn't cost money.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

okay now that its been clarified the is manhattan bound i agree that the terminal should be 149th street grand concourse lower level. its the perfect terminal. only thing is cancelling some train runs to allow time for the to stop discharge passengers pick up passengers and changing of the crew and switching back to the uptown track. but its perfect. and both the tracks going out of grand concourse can be used as layup tracks.

No late night runs should be canceled. The late-night should either terminate at 125th Street or Grand Central.

[Wallyhorse]

No late night runs should be canceled. The late-night should either terminate at 125th Street or Grand Central.

 

Though I would think having the go to BB as a local with the to me makes more sense since it eliminates the need for a terminal at Grand Central, especially since it also would allow for the to be a full-time express. I would suspect a decent chunk of the additional expense to BB for the overnights would be offset by not having to set up a terminal at GC for the then.

[TwoTimer]

149-GC is fine. Actually I don't even think the should run at all at night. I felt a more inclusive bus that had a better route setup was cheaper, even with the price of gas these days. The bus would go from 149-GC to 148 making a stop at 145th. Having that run all night was purely a political decision based upon the gentrification of the area. However, I do agree it should have run later then it used to before it stopped running (I remember the last train leaving New Lots at 1124 PM and just before 11 at the other end).

[Shortline Bus]

149-GC is fine. Actually I don't even think the should run at all at night. I felt a more inclusive bus that had a better route setup was cheaper, even with the price of gas these days. The bus would go from 149-GC to 148 making a stop at 145th. Having that run all night was purely a political decision based upon the gentrification of the area. However, I do agree it should have run later then it used to before it stopped running (I remember the last train leaving New Lots at 1124 PM and just before 11 at the other end).

 

 

Then why twotimer would you have Lenox at stations between 148th and 135th 'backtrack' to the Bronx and catch the

lines overnight at 149th-GC? 90%-plus of those riders are going *downtown and into Brooklyn.* At that hour almost all of those upper Lenox riders can use nearby bus lines such as the BX19 and BX6.

 

Besides even a (3)shuttle train running between 148th and Times Sq helps out the for those Lenox riders only going to the Upper West Side or connecting to the (1)line.

[Trainmaster5]

No late night runs should be canceled. The late-night should either terminate at 125th Street or Grand Central.

 

The s/b should terminate at 149th St-Grand Concourse lower.Let it arrive before the train. It can discharge it's passengers there and proceed south to the 138th St relay tracks. T/O changes ends and the crew awaits a n/b train to pass by. train proceeds n/b into the loop track and awaits a n/b to pass by. enters station, picks up passengers, and proceeds on to Dyre. This scenario eliminates delays on the and lines and avoids unnecessary train traffic on the Lexington Ave corridor during the overnights when maintenance is being performed. I fail to see the need for 3 services, ,, and , to run on the Lex during the midnights. Remember, it wasn't too long ago when only ONE service ran on Lex during those hours and the economy had more people working overnights then compared to today. I can't justify transit catering to the Friday, Saturday night casual ridership, especially these days. I think that's why they decided to make the West Side local overnights and eliminate IRT expresses entirely. Just my opinion. Carry on.

[Guest lance25]

I thought the and late night express services were canceled because people got tired of waiting for the and trains respectively, especially if you just missed one.

[Trainmaster5]

I thought the and late night express services were canceled because people got tired of waiting for the and trains respectively, especially if you just missed one.

 

You're on the money with the as far as I'm concerned. People were complaining about the expresses zipping by while they waited at local stations trying to get home. Transit decided to make everything local so everyone suffered together.On the East Side, however, the made all local stops because the only ran between Pelham Bay Park and 125th St during the midnight hours. Since it's extension you now have 2 locals running all night between 125 and the Brooklyn Bridge station.

[GreatOne2k]

This is another plan that could work

 

Bowling Green service extended until 12:00 midnight 7 days a week

 

149 St-Grand Concourse service begins after midnight.

 

This will be like the to Times Square-42 Street in which there will be periods of "extra" service in which the and shuttles will be running at the same time in one direction their full length counterparts during transition periods.

 

 

Some trains could also be stored on Jerome 'M' track between 138, 149, and 161 overnight for use during transition periods.

[Wallyhorse]

The s/b should terminate at 149th St-Grand Concourse lower.Let it arrive before the train. It can discharge it's passengers there and proceed south to the 138th St relay tracks. T/O changes ends and the crew awaits a n/b train to pass by. train proceeds n/b into the loop track and awaits a n/b to pass by. enters station, picks up passengers, and proceeds on to Dyre. This scenario eliminates delays on the and lines and avoids unnecessary train traffic on the Lexington Ave corridor during the overnights when maintenance is being performed. I fail to see the need for 3 services, ,, and , to run on the Lex during the midnights. Remember, it wasn't too long ago when only ONE service ran on Lex during those hours and the economy had more people working overnights then compared to today. I can't justify transit catering to the Friday, Saturday night casual ridership, especially these days. I think that's why they decided to make the West Side local overnights and eliminate IRT expresses entirely. Just my opinion. Carry on.

 

Except that Friday and Saturday late night (early Saturday and Sunday morning) ridership has spiked considerably in recent years from my understanding, even from just when I was last in New York in 2006. Especially if late Thursday-early Friday morning ridership also has gone up (Thursday would be the third biggest night of the week for many of the clubs), then those three nights alone warrant the addition service with the running to BB with the as a local while the becoming a full-time express, including during the overnights.

 

Also, while many people don't work the overnights as they used to per se, you also don't have as many people working 9-to-5 either. Increasingly, many work seeming weird hours, especially if they deal with clients overseas. That's also why I would think such is warranted, especially if there is money to do such down the road.

[tripleeye49]

Even better, I would have the and the run express to Midtown, and the and the run local to/from Brooklyn. Brooklyn passengers also have the option of the or the to get them to points in downtown Brooklyn if they need faster travel.

 

to Penn Station

to Grand Central

(3)/(4) local to/from Brookyn (take your pic of which one goes to Flatbush, it doesn't really matter)

[Vistausss]

to Penn: dunno if Penn makes a good terminal, so I take this one in doubt.

to GC: good idea :thumbsup:

(3)/(4) to Brooklyn: good idea. I would say let the end at Atlantic Terminal.

[Guest lance25]

to Penn: dunno if Penn makes a good terminal, so I take this one in doubt.

to GC: good idea :thumbsup:

(3)/(4) to Brooklyn: good idea. I would say let the end at Atlantic Terminal.

 

With that service plan, there won't be any service on one of the Brooklyn branches, either the Nostrand Avenue line or the New Lots.

[Trainmaster5]

Except that Friday and Saturday late night (early Saturday and Sunday morning) ridership has spiked considerably in recent years from my understanding, even from just when I was last in New York in 2006. Especially if late Thursday-early Friday morning ridership also has gone up (Thursday would be the third biggest night of the week for many of the clubs), then those three nights alone warrant the addition service with the running to BB with the as a local while the becoming a full-time express, including during the overnights.

 

Also, while many people don't work the overnights as they used to per se, you also don't have as many people working 9-to-5 either. Increasingly, many work seeming weird hours, especially if they deal with clients overseas. That's also why I would think such is warranted, especially if there is money to do such down the road.

 

NYC subway service is centered on the CBD employers and employees first and foremost. Like the LIRR and MNRR's schedules I highly doubt there will be a change in philosophy to service " casual" ridership any time soon. Even overnight bus service in the outer boroughs has been drastically curtailed. Even if subway service was increased on the midnight tour those who do not live near a train station are still stranded if they live in the outer boroughs. BTW your last paragraph, if followed by the transit beancounters, is an argument for LESS service during all hours of the day. I spent almost 30 years with the agency clamoring for more bus and subway service for those of us who lived away from the CBD but it was made clear to me in the last 10 years or so that my concerns were not the focus of transit's core mission. I think my co-workers out here will second that in no uncertain terms. The subway "club-goers" have even less clout than the working public as far as transit is concerned. Those with real clout and money aren't straphangers for the most part as far as the big shots are concerned. Unfortunately that's the reality as far as transit is concerned. Quite frankly the discussion about extending the line is interesting to those of us in the IRT because NYCT has been trying to find a way to shut down the line overnights for at least 20 years. The only thing stopping them is that there really is no way for them to bustitute because of the roundabout street route between Dyre and East 180th St.

[Wallyhorse]

That's the difference:

 

I know to look beyond the the employers and employees of the CBD.

 

Sure, those trains are packed and the lines are going to be at max capacity (for this era) in most cases -- that isn't going to change. What has changed, however, is the large number of people who do at least part of their commute outside the traditional rush hours, and I'm NOT talking about the "casual riders" who head for the clubs on Thursday-Friday-Saturday nights. This likely includes a lot of people on Wall Street who for instance work a 6:00 PM-2:00 or 3:00 AM shift (Sunday-Thursday nights) if they deal with Asian clients and the Asian stock markets, something that has increased dramatically in the past 25 years or so (friends of mine and I used to have jokes about the NYSE staying open for simulcasting of the Tokyo Stock Exchange years ago in fact). Especially late Thursday night-early Friday, these people add to the "clubsters" who are also riding at that time.

 

That's why I would at least look at an experiment of during the overnights of having the run express full-time, with the and both running local on the Lex to BB, which would eliminate any track changes other than the switching between local/express tracks at 125. I know the mentality doesn't account for that, but I believe you have to look beyond the traditional rounds of service.

[Trainmaster5]

That's the difference:

 

I know to look beyond the the employers and employees of the CBD.

 

Sure, those trains are packed and the lines are going to be at max capacity (for this era) in most cases -- that isn't going to change. What has changed, however, is the large number of people who do at least part of their commute outside the traditional rush hours, and I'm NOT talking about the "casual riders" who head for the clubs on Thursday-Friday-Saturday nights. This likely includes a lot of people on Wall Street who for instance work a 6:00 PM-2:00 or 3:00 AM shift (Sunday-Thursday nights) if they deal with Asian clients and the Asian stock markets, something that has increased dramatically in the past 25 years or so (friends of mine and I used to have jokes about the NYSE staying open for simulcasting of the Tokyo Stock Exchange years ago in fact). Especially late Thursday night-early Friday, these people add to the "clubsters" who are also riding at that time.

 

That's why I would at least look at an experiment of during the overnights of having the run express full-time, with the and both running local on the Lex to BB, which would eliminate any track changes other than the switching between local/express tracks at 125. I know the mentality doesn't account for that, but I believe you have to look beyond the traditional rounds of service.

I happen to agree with a lot of your ideas. I happen to know a lot of people who work those very hours...but until someone changes the mind-set of the

geniuses who do the planning for the subways and surface operations the system will stay as is. When I suggested earlier in this thread about extending the to Grand Concourse midnights it was a compromise position. I got a phone call Thursday afternoon from someone very close to the Operations and Planning dept. My rabbi, so to speak. He laughed and told me that, like Don Quixote, I never give up. As he told me 30 years ago, it's all political. You can bet the bank if Shelly Silver lived in Eastchester, Far Rock, or Canarsie, the would sing a different tune. Change, if it ever comes, must be forced on the . Common sense or logic doesn't seem to account for much with these people in charge today. Believe me when I say I wasn't trying to denigrate your ideas or those of the other posters. I tried to bring up the arguments I've heard over the years concerning the same subject. When the was extended south of 125th St midnights I thought there would be other changes on Lexington Avenue on the midnights but I was told in no uncertain terms that it was a fight just to get that done. See the mindset we're dealing with here? Just my opinion though. Carry on.

[GreatOne2k]

NYC subway service is centered on the CBD employers and employees first and foremost. Like the LIRR and MNRR's schedules I highly doubt there will be a change in philosophy to service " casual" ridership any time soon. Even overnight bus service in the outer boroughs has been drastically curtailed. Even if subway service was increased on the midnight tour those who do not live near a train station are still stranded if they live in the outer boroughs. BTW your last paragraph, if followed by the transit beancounters, is an argument for LESS service during all hours of the day. I spent almost 30 years with the agency clamoring for more bus and subway service for those of us who lived away from the CBD but it was made clear to me in the last 10 years or so that my concerns were not the focus of transit's core mission. I think my co-workers out here will second that in no uncertain terms. The subway "club-goers" have even less clout than the working public as far as transit is concerned. Those with real clout and money aren't straphangers for the most part as far as the big shots are concerned. Unfortunately that's the reality as far as transit is concerned. Quite frankly the discussion about extending the line is interesting to those of us in the IRT because NYCT has been trying to find a way to shut down the line overnights for at least 20 years. The only thing stopping them is that there really is no way for them to bustitute because of the roundabout street route between Dyre and East 180th St.

 

Has MTA ever tried to shut down other shuttles late night like the , , and ? They already shut down the twice before overnights and it came back each time, now even better than ever. The was even extended to 42nd St overnight, before it was 135th St. The 42nd Street was also shut down late night.

 

Would MTA save money from running a shuttle bus overnight?

MTA would lose revenue by have to run free shuttle buses. Unless people would have to pay for these buses.

 

How did the shuttle bus work, did anyone pay, or was it free?

 

Dyre line area has some political pull, they stopped the MTA from making the Dyre line service Bronx local during rush hours