SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[RR503]

My one question about the late night 3 is why can’t they extend it to 14th? Then you get access to Penn Sta., and the  at 14th. Those are useful transfers... 

They do it on the weekend so it seems like it’s merely a matter of budget. 

Edited January 18, 2018 by RR503

[bobtehpanda]

3 hours ago, RR503 said:

My one question about the late night 3 is why can’t they extend it to 14th? Then you get access to Penn Sta., and the  at 14th. Those are useful transfers... 

They do it on the weekend so it seems like it’s merely a matter of budget. 

It probably is a matter of budget. The late night service is relatively recent.

IIRC, that weekend termination at 14th St is only around because of the work on the Clark tubes.

[RR503]

2 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

It probably is a matter of budget. The late night service is relatively recent.

IIRC, that weekend termination at 14th St is only around because of the work on the Clark tubes.

It is.

It proves it’s feasible though. 

[bobtehpanda]

2 minutes ago, RR503 said:

It is.

It proves it’s feasible though. 

With the current budget problems, I don't think it's the greatest idea. Expanding service while being unable to maintain house is how DC Metro got where  it is today.

[RR503]

19 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

With the current budget problems, I don't think it's the greatest idea. Expanding service while being unable to maintain house is how DC Metro got where  it is today.

This’d cost a pittance, and would be drawn from the operating not capital budget. I doubt you’d even need more trains. Small loss for a more useful service — I’ll take it. 

[Lawrence St]

Apparently the has an NTT program to Wall St

[Lawrence St]

Proof:

 

[MHV9218]

Interestingly the dirt was cleaned off the original 1936 porcelain "4" station signs between the tracks at West 4th. Those have been filthy forever, and generally they just get removed rather than cleaned. Nice thoughtful touch to see.

[CenSin]

Saw the countdown clocks at Brighton Beach after getting off the and seeing a Coney Island-bound approaching Ocean Parkway. The next was 10 minutes away and the following one was 13 minutes away. After jogging to Coney Island from Brighton Beach, I got my daily exercise and still came out ahead. The next was nowhere to be seen. That train I got off of, however, was on its way to the Coney Island yard. I passed under it at Stillwell and Neptune Avenues.

And that’s also my middle finger to the service pattern.

[VIP]

Can Anyone give an answer or reason why R46’s and R32’s had painted  door thresholds OTHER than the reason to figure out where they’re getting scraped by platforms... As far as I can remember 207th Street started this...

[bobtehpanda]

8 hours ago, RR503 said:

This’d cost a pittance, and would be drawn from the operating not capital budget. I doubt you’d even need more trains. Small loss for a more useful service — I’ll take it. 

The existence of PayGo makes that not so clear cut.

This is also how the decline of the DC Metro started; expanding this bus service only costs a little, expanding that one only costs a little, reducing weekend hours by an hour only costs a little. But that doesn't measure opportunity costs; and every little improvement you make is money that isn't going towards maintenance.

[RailRunRob]

1 hour ago, VIP said:

Can Anyone give an answer or reason why R46’s and R32’s had painted  door thresholds OTHER than the reason to figure out where they’re getting scraped by platforms... As far as I can remember 207th Street started this...

I would think it would mainly be to measure the lateral movement of the Rolling stock/ suspension, Possibly extended to track and roadbed measurements in that vicinity as well. Can't think of any other cosmetic reason to do it.

[RR503]

2 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

The existence of PayGo makes that not so clear cut.

This is also how the decline of the DC Metro started; expanding this bus service only costs a little, expanding that one only costs a little, reducing weekend hours by an hour only costs a little. But that doesn't measure opportunity costs; and every little improvement you make is money that isn't going towards maintenance.

I understand that — I happen to have worked a good deal with TA finances. What I’m saying is that, in Lhotas words, the system has to be able to “walk and chew gum” at the same time. The logical conclusion of your line of thinking is a service freeze until the entire system is in a SGR. As you can see from the recent additions of service on the , ,  and myriad bus lines, that can’t be done without making the system functionally obsolete instead of mechanically. 

I also find the incessant comparison with the DC metro is a bit invalid. In NY, you have a (relatively) simple control structure, with two states in control of an agency which serves the most transit-heavy region in the country. In DC, you have a much smaller transit user population juxtaposed with one of the most governmentally complex areas of the country. 

The WAMTA’s budget is determined in large part by the ever changing federal govt, and then also by the state and local governments of two relatively swingy states. In NYC, whatever the issues may be, the MTA has to face much less unpredictability in funding, and has much, much more clout politically. The WAMTA simply can’t predict what’s coming down the pipe, which severely hinders their ability to maintain service in some non-rollercoaster-y fashion while also doing maintenance. It’s that that’s killing their system, not service expansions. What you’re saying about service adjustments killing WAMTA is analogous to saying that the SAS opening is killing the MTA — not the years of governmental mismanagement and neglect.

While I’m all for trunk shutdowns and bus network rationalization, I don’t believe we can hit pause on the MTA and then clean up our mess. This isn’t trainsim. The MTA needs to continue — indeed better — its service to the region while putting its diaper back on.

 

(This applies to so much more than my little  train idea) 

Edited January 19, 2018 by RR503

[bobtehpanda]

46 minutes ago, RR503 said:

I understand that — I happen to have worked a good deal with TA finances. What I’m saying is that, in Lhotas words, the system has to be able to “walk and chew gum” at the same time. The logical conclusion of your line of thinking is a service freeze until the entire system is in a SGR. As you can see from the recent additions of service on the , ,  and myriad bus lines, that can’t be done without making the system functionally obsolete instead of mechanically. 

I also find the incessant comparison with the DC metro is a bit invalid. In NY, you have a (relatively) simple control structure, with two states in control of an agency which serves the most transit-heavy region in the country. In DC, you have a much smaller transit user population juxtaposed with one of the most governmentally complex areas of the country. 

The WAMTA’s budget is determined in large part by the ever changing federal govt, and then also by the state and local governments of two relatively swingy states. In NYC, whatever the issues may be, the MTA has to face much less unpredictability in funding, and has much, much more clout politically. The WAMTA simply can’t predict what’s coming down the pipe, which severely hinders their ability to maintain service in some non-rollercoaster-y fashion while also doing maintenance. It’s that that’s killing their system, not service expansions. What you’re saying about service adjustments killing WAMTA is analogous to saying that the SAS opening is killing the MTA — not the years of governmental mismanagement and neglect.

While I’m all for trunk shutdowns and bus network rationalization, I don’t believe we can hit pause on the MTA and then clean up our mess. This isn’t trainsim. The MTA needs to continue — indeed better — its service to the region while putting its diaper back on.

 

(This applies to so much more than my little  train idea) 

SAS isn't really killing the MTA, but East Side Access is. There's more than one factor here; hence why we have Cuomo pontificating about $300M bridge lights. All these little or not-so-little requests add up.

The MTA faces budget unpredictability because none of its funding sources are stable through economic downturns. In fact, even congestion pricing won't fix this, because driving into Manhattan falls whenever the economy goes down. This fundamental issue has never been solved.

The MTA has no political clout. Every big transit strike has been averted with a politician telling the MTA to bend over. Every transit lockbox bill has been pocket vetoed. Every Capital Plan gets whittled down to nothing except the big projects and maintenance that doesn't even keep SOGR treading water.

If the MTA had more power to negotiate by itself without the state overriding it, and paid off its debts, we'd have a fantastic, billion plus surplus. I'd rather them focus on cleaning house than to shred the piggy bank with a thousand minor benefits.

Edited January 19, 2018 by bobtehpanda

[Subway fanatic]

4 hours ago, CenSin said:

Saw the countdown clocks at Brighton Beach after getting off the and seeing a Coney Island-bound approaching Ocean Parkway. The next was 10 minutes away and the following one was 13 minutes away. After jogging to Coney Island from Brighton Beach, I got my daily exercise and still came out ahead. The next was nowhere to be seen. That train I got off of, however, was on its way to the Coney Island yard. I passed under it at Stillwell and Neptune Avenues.

And that’s also my middle finger to the service pattern.

Okay?

[RR503]

7 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

SAS isn't really killing the MTA, but East Side Access is. There's more than one factor here; hence why we have Cuomo pontificating about $300M bridge lights. All these little or not-so-little requests add up.

Wholly agree, but you missed my point. I was saying that it’d be ridiculous to say that the service expansions related to the opening of SAS are the thing killing the agency. 

7 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

The MTA faces budget unpredictability because none of its funding sources are stable through economic downturns. In fact, even congestion pricing won't fix this, because driving into Manhattan falls whenever the economy goes down. This fundamental issue has never been solved.

That’s a truism if I ever saw one. Name one institution for which that isn’t the case. 

We make up for this fact by instituting service cuts when times get bad. Unless I’m reading a whole lot of fake news, we’re not in a recession now. 

You again missed my point though. I’m saying that WAMTA has to face recession equivalents every time a republican walks into congress, making their budget process up for stabbing every two years. 

7 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

The MTA has no political clout. Every big transit strike has been averted with a politician telling the MTA to bend over. Every transit lockbox bill has been pocket vetoed. Every Capital Plan gets whittled down to nothing except the big projects and maintenance that doesn't even keep SOGR treading water.

Bad phrasing on my part — sorry. I was trying to say that the regions dependancy on public transit gives the agency’s issues much more weight that WAMTA’s. Which is just true. Look at the amount of press/wing flapping these days.

 

7 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

If the MTA had more power to negotiate by itself without the state overriding it, and paid off its debts, we'd have a fantastic, billion plus surplus. I'd rather them focus on cleaning house than to shred the piggy bank with a thousand minor benefits.

Again, totally with you on negotiation.

But I don’t see how maintaining a state of good repair in terms of service is in any way a less worthy goal than doing the same in maintenance. If you don’t make sure the MTA is keeping up with regional needs, you’re still failing. Yes, I agree this isn’t the time for things like the red hook , but it is the time for for, say, a little more late night B61 service. We shouldn’t force the MTA to cannibalize it’s utility to fix another problem, because then, if you’re right, we’ll be left in a cycle, where the agency is forced to prioritize maintenance over service, then service over maintenance, then maintenance over service again, etc. My point here is that the only way to fix the MTA is to increase the size of the pie — to make it be able to “walk and chew gum” at the same time. Whether you do that through more funding or less waste I don’t care, but that’s just the basic reality that underlies this all. 

Edited January 19, 2018 by RR503

[RR503]

Double post sorry — delete plz

 

Edited January 19, 2018 by RR503

[S78 via Hylan]

An update on 104 St: Half the platform is restored and the walls are being put up.

[BreeddekalbL]

In regards to mta funding i say they allow them to legalize a way to hold a peoples referendum and repeal this home rule stuff, home rule is handcuffing stuff 

[S78 via Hylan]

Rode the  today. It’s good to see that they’re running the R46’s on the line during weekends.

[LGA Link N Train]

Saw an R32 and a Big sign that said R110 on it at the Brooklyn bound side of 34 St-Herald Square platform

[Jemorie]

11 minutes ago, S78 via Hylan said:

Rode the  today. It’s good to see that they’re running the R46’s on the line during weekends.

How many? The same 4-5 sets like Joe Korner indicated?

[RailRunRob]

11 minutes ago, LGA Link N train said:

Saw an R32 and a Big sign that said R110 on it at the Brooklyn bound side of 34 St-Herald Square platform

R110 sign is probably to mark the conductor position on the R110 consist. 67 foot  9 car setup.  Just in case of a reroute via 6th Ave.  I could be wrong maybe someone with more info can chime in.

Edited January 20, 2018 by RailRunRob

[S78 via Hylan]

55 minutes ago, Jemorie said:

How many? The same 4-5 sets like Joe Korner indicated?

I saw two; the one I was on and another going the opposite way.

[Dannny]

On 1/6/2018 at 3:43 PM, VIP said:

There’s an R46  on the  line 😆 headed to manhattan right now. #5898 & Friends. 

 

On 1/6/2018 at 3:45 PM, LGA Link N train said:

As much as I wanna believe you 

NO

He was telling the truth, it was really a  to 168th.