SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[Lawrence St]

I wanna know why they don't utilize the middle track more often, and when they do, they skip Pelham Pkwy which is weird. 

[Subway fanatic]

21 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

I seen an interesting operation on the  today, my train went on a skip from E180th - Pelham Parkway - Dyre, the interesting part was, the C/R told the passengers that wanted the skipped stops to take an shuttle  train across the platform, which would make all stops. There was an R142 sitting there signed up as the  shuttle. This was in the afternoon, I never seen anything done like that before.

 

 

That is weird

[Subway fanatic]

On 2/18/2018 at 9:13 PM, VIP said:

The  has always been a priority over the  in terms of equipment because the  was and still is a busier line. And R46’s popping up on the  these days are highly unlikely. Jamaica has more than enough R160’s to make  service. 

I disagree. The  is busier than the  since the  runs 45 stops while the  runs 22. I don't know where you get this info from with the  being the higher priority. I don't think the  have that much equipment since it makes a small amount of stops. If anything the surplus cars from Jamaica goes to the . Service is much more frequent on the  during the rush hour from my notice. 

[danielhg121]

My  went on battery runs for three days in a row now. Everyday at 74th st-Broadway, the C/R announces it'll go express. This is not during the PM rush hour, this is early afternoon when  trains aren't running.

[kosciusko]

Saw this image and it really got me thinking...

[AlgorithmOfTruth]

1 hour ago, Subway fanatic said:

I disagree. The  is busier than the  since the  runs 45 stops while the  runs 22. I don't know where you get this info from with the  being the higher priority. I don't think the  have that much equipment since it makes a small amount of stops. If anything the surplus cars from Jamaica goes to the . Service is much more frequent on the  during the rush hour from my notice. 

Since when does the number of station stops of a certain line correlate with that line's ridership level and overall priority? For example, the / share equipment and the  serves more stations than the , but does that mean that the  has priority over the  in terms of assigned equipment? Not necessarily.

Edited February 22, 2018 by AlgorithmOfTruth

[Jchambers2120]

1 hour ago, Subway fanatic said:

I disagree. The  is busier than the  since the  runs 45 stops while the  runs 22. I don't know where you get this info from with the  being the higher priority. I don't think the  have that much equipment since it makes a small amount of stops. If anything the surplus cars from Jamaica goes to the . Service is much more frequent on the  during the rush hour from my notice. 

Jamaica doesn't provide equipment for the ENY does. Do you have any numbers to backup your claims of the F being busier besides the amount of stations it serves?  60 footers have more doors per train than 75 footers which plays a role in station dwell time. Care to explain why the is exclusively 60 footers whilw the "busier" F as you claim uses a mix of 60 and 75 foot equipment? Going by your logic the if I'm not mistaken is the longest local in the system, care to explain why it also travels along the busy QBL corridor and uses mostly 75 footers with a R160 here and there ro make service?

And you might want to revisit those schedules again.

[trainfan22]

The  can be SRO from the first stop at WTC during rush hours, and SRO until Supthin Blvd, ridership on the  is light on the Culver El stations. From my experience most of the stops on the  is busier than all the Culver EL stops. The only stops I can think of that have light ridership on the  is Jamaica Van Wyck, Bairwood and 75th Ave, all the others are fairly busy.

[R32 3838]

On 2/18/2018 at 7:45 PM, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

When the R160s were delivered a decade or so ago, why were they exclusively assigned to the  and not equally divided between the  and ? What I'm saying is how come you only witness R160s on the , but R160s as well as R46s on the ? While it was uncommon to see a set of R46s on the , it happened ocassionally. Is it because the  had a stronghold on the R32s back in the day? Nowadays, an R46 wouldn't ever pop up in passenger service on the .

The was supposed to get em first, the line crew were qualified starting in the summer of 08. They were gonna borrow 2 sets of CI R160's and put em in service on the (F). That all changed, in late November it was decided the should get the R160's first eventhough none of the line crew were qualified. They did a burn test 2 days before the 1st Jamaica R160 went into service. It was an ENY set doing burn testing then in december 2008 the 1st R160 went into service as the 7:05 out of parsons. 9233-9242 was the consist. 

The started running R160's in march of 2009. 

 

Jamaica orginal R160 assignments

R160A-2: 9233-9802

R160B: 9163-9232, 9803-9942

[AlgorithmOfTruth]

56 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

The was supposed to get em first, the line crew were qualified starting in the summer of 08. They were gonna borrow 2 sets of CI R160's and put em in service on the (F). That all changed, in late November it was decided the should get the R160's first eventhough none of the line crew were qualified. They did a burn test 2 days before the 1st Jamaica R160 went into service. It was an ENY set doing burn testing then in december 2008 the 1st R160 went into service as the 7:05 out of parsons. 9233-9242 was the consist. 

The started running R160's in march of 2009. 

 

Jamaica orginal R160 assignments

R160A-2: 9233-9802

R160B: 9163-9232, 9803-9942

Thanks for sharing! It's amazing how the R160s have been on the  for the past 10 years already! I remember the R32s flying down Queens Boulevard when I was a teenager. How time flies.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

Saw a post on another thread and got to thinking. 

 

Why do the signals on the QBL express seem like they are further apart than on a lot of the other system segments? I feel like that exacerbates the congestion, especially in the PM from 36th to Roosevelt. The new interlockings at Roosevelt and 71 Ave dont seem to help speed things up much. 

The Lex and 7th Ave expresses seem to have signals closer together and those trains go noticeably faster in midtown and downtown, even with similar tph.

Also, when were the timers on QBL express put in?

 

Just curious

[Dannny]

saw a man drawing these around Union Square, not bad...

 

 

 

Drawn on Subway maps... Good artist....

[NoHacksJustKhaks]

17 minutes ago, Dannny said:

Drawn on Subway maps... Good artist....

Omg lol, thats pretty good art , very sad they'll probably get rid of it. 

[Calvin]

Does anyone notice the R142As when arriving at a station, the screeching sound can be heard till it stops. 

[Trainmaster5]

I have a question for the Lexington Avenue riders. Since the Second Avenue line started running has there been a noticeable difference in ridership on the Upper Lex corridor ? I believe I asked this before but I don't remember if it was answered. What I'm trying to find out is, with the advent of the up there, has the crowding on the from 96th St down to 59th St diminished any ? I direct the same question to the surface riders up there. The reason I'm asking this particular way is because supposedly the would siphon off some of the crowds from the and the buses up there. Is this in fact happening ? Knowing how the does things it would not surprise me if Operations and Planning instituted a new schedule (supplement) on the line in particular because theoretically there wouldn't be a need for as many trains on the line because the would siphon off some of the folks who'd normally ride the Lex. I've been following the posts of VG8 and some others and I don't ever recall the operating so poorly. The sure, but not the in my experience. I'd like to hear from our Surface contingent too. Something ain't right up there IMO. Carry on.

[officiallyliam]

14 minutes ago, Trainmaster5 said:

I have a question for the Lexington Avenue riders. Since the Second Avenue line started running has there been a noticeable difference in ridership on the Upper Lex corridor ? I believe I asked this before but I don't remember if it was answered. What I'm trying to find out is, with the advent of the up there, has the crowding on the from 96th St down to 59th St diminished any ? I direct the same question to the surface riders up there. The reason I'm asking this particular way is because supposedly the would siphon off some of the crowds from the and the buses up there. Is this in fact happening ? Knowing how the does things it would not surprise me if Operations and Planning instituted a new schedule (supplement) on the line in particular because theoretically there wouldn't be a need for as many trains on the line because the would siphon off some of the folks who'd normally ride the Lex. I've been following the posts of VG8 and some others and I don't ever recall the operating so poorly. The sure, but not the in my experience. I'd like to hear from our Surface contingent too. Something ain't right up there IMO. Carry on.

I'm not a regular Lex rider but here's my thoughts: the reduction in ridership due to the SAS opening has been offset by the MTA running less trains. As a result, the trains aren't less crowded at all - and sometimes are more crowded. More frequent Lex riders may confirm this.

[Jchambers2120]

14 minutes ago, Trainmaster5 said:

I have a question for the Lexington Avenue riders. Since the Second Avenue line started running has there been a noticeable difference in ridership on the Upper Lex corridor ? I believe I asked this before but I don't remember if it was answered. What I'm trying to find out is, with the advent of the up there, has the crowding on the from 96th St down to 59th St diminished any ? I direct the same question to the surface riders up there. The reason I'm asking this particular way is because supposedly the would siphon off some of the crowds from the and the buses up there. Is this in fact happening ? Knowing how the does things it would not surprise me if Operations and Planning instituted a new schedule (supplement) on the line in particular because theoretically there wouldn't be a need for as many trains on the line because the would siphon off some of the folks who'd normally ride the Lex. I've been following the posts of VG8 and some others and I don't ever recall the operating so poorly. The sure, but not the in my experience. I'd like to hear from our Surface contingent too. Something ain't right up there IMO. Carry on.

I'm sorry to veer off of your topic, but since you mentioned it and I've seen the word thrown around could you define what a supplement is? I've always been curious about it. And would this be considered a supplement? I use the Brooklyn IRT and I've noticed that since last fall maybe? There's a single train now that makes a trip out of New Lots Av in the AM rush and the (5)s that mske their runs out of there start much earlier. Ditto for the PM rush, but on the trip planner it says nothing about this change.

Also, how long do supplements last?

 

[MysteriousBtrain]

40 minutes ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Since the Second Avenue line started running has there been a noticeable difference in ridership on the Upper Lex corridor ?

During the first year, the crowds were "slightly less", but still notice. Now with reduced service, it's the same as before.

[Calvin]

Not much changed for the   : just temporary deduction of 3 Av-138 St trips during the AM and for the PM: each train is 3 minutes in Manhattan with 6 min headways from Parkchester and Pelham Bay Park. 

Edited February 23, 2018 by Calvin

[Trainmaster5]

1 hour ago, Jchambers2120 said:

I'm sorry to veer off of your topic, but since you mentioned it and I've seen the word thrown around could you define what a supplement is? I've always been curious about it. And would this be considered a supplement? I use the Brooklyn IRT and I've noticed that since last fall maybe? There's a single train now that makes a trip out of New Lots Av in the AM rush and the (5)s that mske their runs out of there start much earlier. Ditto for the PM rush, but on the trip planner it says nothing about this change.

Also, how long do supplements last?

 

A supplement is basically a deviation from the basic schedule. They are used when trains are running during scheduled General Orders. Maybe there's something like trackwork being done on a line and one track is out of service. The supplement may have half the number of regularly scheduled trains operating in a localized area. There are also emergency supplements that may be used for switch or broken rail situations and the like. Supplements are printed up when new picks go in effect. Depending on the line there might be twenty different supplements available for use depending on the situation at hand. Supplements were supposed to be used for a maximum of 30 days before being replaced by a new one or a reversion to the regular schedule and timetable. An emergency G.O. and supplement are just that and aren't subject to those limitations. Hope that helps. Carry on.

[4 via Mosholu]

58 minutes ago, Trainmaster5 said:

I have a question for the Lexington Avenue riders. Since the Second Avenue line started running has there been a noticeable difference in ridership on the Upper Lex corridor ? I believe I asked this before but I don't remember if it was answered. What I'm trying to find out is, with the advent of the up there, has the crowding on the from 96th St down to 59th St diminished any ? I direct the same question to the surface riders up there. The reason I'm asking this particular way is because supposedly the would siphon off some of the crowds from the and the buses up there. Is this in fact happening ? Knowing how the does things it would not surprise me if Operations and Planning instituted a new schedule (supplement) on the line in particular because theoretically there wouldn't be a need for as many trains on the line because the would siphon off some of the folks who'd normally ride the Lex. I've been following the posts of VG8 and some others and I don't ever recall the operating so poorly. The sure, but not the in my experience. I'd like to hear from our Surface contingent too. Something ain't right up there IMO. Carry on.

I noticed that the first couple of weeks of Second Avenue service, the ridership on the upper portion of Lexington Avenue saw a meager decrease due to a supposed increase of passengers flocking to Second Avenue. The reason why I say meager is because I did not see as much passengers as I perhaps used to see on the Lexington Avenue Line before Second Avenue went online. I do not know if this change was reflected on the M15 or any of the other bus lines that run in close proximity to the Second Avenue Subway. I figure that after a year, the Second Avenue line from 96th Street to 63rd Street is only a stub that has not done much to dramatically shift a significant amount of riders off from the Lexington Avenue Line to Second Avenue. Yet, as has been witnessed time and again, it has become another important artery to provide rush hour service to the train or do reroutes on the train. I am really skeptical about the fact that the train has gotten even worse because I believe that the and have had poor service.

[paulrivera]

On 2/20/2018 at 8:12 PM, trainfan22 said:

I seen an interesting operation on the  today, my train went on a skip from E180th - Pelham Parkway - Dyre, the interesting part was, the C/R told the passengers that wanted the skipped stops to take an shuttle  train across the platform, which would make all stops. There was an R142 sitting there signed up as the  shuttle. This was in the afternoon, I never seen anything done like that before.

 

 

Educated guess: The shuttle crew may have been a put-in crew that would return as a Nereid bound  later on.

On a typical afternoon most will just do a single round trip (and not necessarily terminate at Nereid either; some end up continuing express to Gun Hill/WPR or even go to Dyre when needed), lay up the train in any of the three yards (239,180,Unionport depending on several factors), do other (or no) work (again, as needed) to fill the rest of the 8 hours and then they go home.

A  crew can literally go anywhere and everywhere even on a normal day, especially in the afternoon.

[Calvin]

47 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

Educated guess: The shuttle crew may have been a put-in crew that would return as a Nereid bound  later on.

On a typical afternoon most will just do a single round trip (and not necessarily terminate at Nereid either; some end up continuing express to Gun Hill/WPR or even go to Dyre when needed), lay up the train in any of the three yards (239,180,Unionport depending on several factors), do other (or no) work (again, as needed) to fill the rest of the 8 hours and then they go home.

A  crew can literally go anywhere and everywhere even on a normal day, especially in the afternoon.

If you mean PM rush, most of the trips are between E.180 St to either Bowling Green or Crown Hts-Utica Av on the doing a single round trip. 

There's some that continues on to Bowling Green after a Nereid Av trip. 

 

Edited February 23, 2018 by Calvin

[Trainmaster5]

On 2/20/2018 at 9:39 PM, Lawrence St said:

I wanna know why they don't utilize the middle track more often, and when they do, they skip Pelham Pkwy which is weird. 

Before I retired my C/R and I were sent s/b from Dyre on the"express" track a few times. One time I had a TSS in my cab and he waited to see what I would do at Pelham Parkway.  Trains don't normally stop there because there was no indication board for the conductor.I made a station stop and enabled the doors for my partner. After we started moving again he asked me why I stopped and why my C/R opened the doors because there was no conductor indication board there. I told him that the General Supt. asked me the same thing weeks before and I told the superintendent to look at the station the next time he was in the area and he'd see what I had known for 25+ years. If you look across the platform at the normal local track and see the conductor indication board and point to it as per rules the express track is in the exact same spot. In other words you are properly aligned to open the doors. Since all the line TSS were afraid of the General Supt and my partner and I were not we were able to get away with bending the rules from time to time. I told that particular TSS that there was no reason to leave a platform full of people standing there and if we bypassed them they would have to take a train and travel three stops in the opposite direction to catch a train going in my direction. He agreed with me hesitantly because he, not I, was supposed to be in charge. It's always bothered me wherever I was employed that no matter how well I was trained some supervisory personnel were to afraid to do their jobs. My Rabbi in transit told me to stop, think, and take action because down in the subway hesitation and/or inaction can be very dangerous. As he put it a G2 (report) showing no action taken by the writer meant the writer wasn't necessary either. I remember being asked by another chicken hearted TSS if I would open the doors at Rockaway Avenue on the line if there was no conductor indication board present. The General Supt was standing next to him when I smiled at them and said yes. The TSS said that if I did that as a C/R I would fail the integrity test they give conductors. I told him, in front of the General Supt, that he would fail my test. Everyone in the room laughed when I pointed out that the indication board on the s/b platform was located equidistant between the two staircases and unless those staircases were removed the spot to be safely berthed in the station wouldn't change. Rules are rules but common sense should prevail IMO. Just my musings. Carry on.

[checkmatechamp13]

 

4 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

A supplement is basically a deviation from the basic schedule. They are used when trains are running during scheduled General Orders. Maybe there's something like trackwork being done on a line and one track is out of service. The supplement may have half the number of regularly scheduled trains operating in a localized area. There are also emergency supplements that may be used for switch or broken rail situations and the like. Supplements are printed up when new picks go in effect. Depending on the line there might be twenty different supplements available for use depending on the situation at hand. Supplements were supposed to be used for a maximum of 30 days before being replaced by a new one or a reversion to the regular schedule and timetable. An emergency G.O. and supplement are just that and aren't subject to those limitations. Hope that helps. Carry on.

2

Do those supplements affect the run pay of the T/Os and C/Rs operating that line?

1 hour ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Before I retired my C/R and I were sent s/b from Dyre on the"express" track a few times. One time I had a TSS in my cab and he waited to see what I would do at Pelham Parkway.  Trains don't normally stop there because there was no indication board for the conductor.I made a station stop and enabled the doors for my partner. After we started moving again he asked me why I stopped and why my C/R opened the doors because there was no conductor indication board there. I told him that the General Supt. asked me the same thing weeks before and I told the superintendent to look at the station the next time he was in the area and he'd see what I had known for 25+ years. If you look across the platform at the normal local track and see the conductor indication board and point to it as per rules the express track is in the exact same spot. In other words you are properly aligned to open the doors. Since all the line TSS were afraid of the General Supt and my partner and I were not we were able to get away with bending the rules from time to time. I told that particular TSS that there was no reason to leave a platform full of people standing there and if we bypassed them they would have to take a train and travel three stops in the opposite direction to catch a train going in my direction. He agreed with me hesitantly because he, not I, was supposed to be in charge. It's always bothered me wherever I was employed that no matter how well I was trained some supervisory personnel were to afraid to do their jobs. My Rabbi in transit told me to stop, think, and take action because down in the subway hesitation and/or inaction can be very dangerous. As he put it a G2 (report) showing no action taken by the writer meant the writer wasn't necessary either. I remember being asked by another chicken hearted TSS if I would open the doors at Rockaway Avenue on the line if there was no conductor indication board present. The General Supt was standing next to him when I smiled at them and said yes. The TSS said that if I did that as a C/R I would fail the integrity test they give conductors. I told him, in front of the General Supt, that he would fail my test. Everyone in the room laughed when I pointed out that the indication board on the s/b platform was located equidistant between the two staircases and unless those staircases were removed the spot to be safely berthed in the station wouldn't change. Rules are rules but common sense should prevail IMO. Just my musings. Carry on.

I don't see why they wouldn't just install a conductor board facing the middle track, if there's that much potential for confusion.