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On 11/29/2020 at 3:25 AM, brakethrow said:

What's with so many of these odd speed restrictions throughout the system? 13mph, 26mph, 17mph, etc, etc. Also how exactly do they determine speed limits in general?

Some have always been around, others came about in the last year or two as part of the Save Safe Seconds initiative to increase speed limits where safe to do so. 

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9 minutes ago, CenSin said:

The (B) these days:

* Brighton Beach: Hey, (Q), we’re already leaving.

* Sheepshead Bay: *huff* *puff* Why’d you leave us behind? 🥺

* Kings Highway: Oh hi there again! Finally caught up.

* Newkirk Plaza: Ahhh! It's gaining on us again!

At this point the only "true" expresses left in the system that actually make a difference in travel time are 7th Avenue and Lexington.

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1 hour ago, CenSin said:

The (B) these days:

* Brighton Beach: Hey, (Q), we’re already leaving.

* Sheepshead Bay: *huff* *puff* Why’d you leave us behind? 🥺

* Kings Highway: Oh hi there again! Finally caught up.

* Newkirk Plaza: Ahhh! It's gaining on us again!

Last 3 times having came home from going out to Nathan's (each of which, I stayed on the (Q) the entire time, each of which there was a waiting (B) at Brighton Beach), the (B) & the (Q) met up at Church.... This was during the midday (around 12-12:30 or so)....

24 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

Queens Boulevard makes a difference.

Overall, yeah - but at the same time, the effectiveness of the (F) in-particular has waned over time (can't really speak for the (E), seldom ever use that line - I make it a habit to not board at Jamaica Ctr.).... I don't miss taking the (F) from 179th home at all.... It was infuriating to see (R)'s & (M)'s blowing past the (F)'s I'd be on, after 74th/Jackson Hgts. (towards Manhattan)... It (the crawling of the (F)) was one reason I would get fed up & get off at 21st-QB & do the whole walk to the B32, to the B46 thing.....

Edited by B35 via Church
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3 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

At this point the only "true" expresses left in the system that actually make a difference in travel time are 7th Avenue and Lexington.

If there isn’t any track work, or delay the (A) and (D) from 59th street to 125th street can also be a nice express. 
I wish our subway system had more super express portions. The Queens Bypass would have some potential if it were built. 

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1 hour ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

If there isn’t any track work, or delay the (A) and (D) from 59th street to 125th street can also be a nice express. 
I wish our subway system had more super express portions. The Queens Bypass would have some potential if it were built. 

Yeah, my clearest reminder of this is always overnight. I had a friend in Inwood that I would go back and forth from a lot. Taking the (A) local from 207th down took seven years, but if I caught the (D) across the platform at 125 it was a huuuuge difference. 34th to West 4th alone with the 50mph arrival into W4 is a big deal. 

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2 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

If there isn’t any track work, or delay the (A) and (D) from 59th street to 125th street can also be a nice express. 
I wish our subway system had more super express portions. The Queens Bypass would have some potential if it were built. 

 

23 minutes ago, MHV9218 said:

Yeah, my clearest reminder of this is always overnight. I had a friend in Inwood that I would go back and forth from a lot. Taking the (A) local from 207th down took seven years, but if I caught the (D) across the platform at 125 it was a huuuuge difference. 34th to West 4th alone with the 50mph arrival into W4 is a big deal. 

The thing about CPW Express is that the (A) and (D) merge in front of each other at 135th St, the (B) delays the (C) at 59th St and and cause delays, which then delays all the trains behind it. On paper, it works fine but in real life, your always guaranteed to get stuck behind an (A) or (D) or get delayed entering 59th St.

Speaking of CPW, I wonder if these delays occurred when the (B) ran to 168th St and the (C) to Bedford Park.

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6 hours ago, CenSin said:

The (B) these days:

* Brighton Beach: Hey, (Q), we’re already leaving.

* Sheepshead Bay: *huff* *puff* Why’d you leave us behind? 🥺

* Kings Highway: Oh hi there again! Finally caught up.

* Newkirk Plaza: Ahhh! It's gaining on us again!

I took the (Q) and transferred to the (B) a few weeks ago and it worked out well, but I used that Live Subway Map thingy to see if transferring and waiting for the (B) would mean me arriving before the (Q) and it did. Got to Sheepshead Bay Road in good time. I checked the map, saw that a (B) was due a few minutes after the (Q) at Atlantic Av, got off the (Q) , waited a few minutes and all was well. 

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6 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Overall, yeah - but at the same time, the effectiveness of the (F) in-particular has waned over time (can't really speak for the (E), seldom ever use that line - I make it a habit to not board at Jamaica Ctr.).... I don't miss taking the (F) from 179th home at all.... It was infuriating to see (R)'s & (M)'s blowing past the (F)'s I'd be on, after 74th/Jackson Hgts. (towards Manhattan)... It (the crawling of the (F)) was one reason I would get fed up & get off at 21st-QB & do the whole walk to the B32, to the B46 thing.....

The (E) is not great, but the (F) transition at 75th doesn't help.

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1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

 

The thing about CPW Express is that the (A) and (D) merge in front of each other at 135th St, the (B) delays the (C) at 59th St and and cause delays, which then delays all the trains behind it. On paper, it works fine but in real life, your always guaranteed to get stuck behind an (A) or (D) or get delayed entering 59th St.

Speaking of CPW, I wonder if these delays occurred when the (B) ran to 168th St and the (C) to Bedford Park.

During the midday, southbound CPW was smooth as butter between 2010 and last March, when all four CPW lines ran on 10 minute headways each.

After COVID when the (C) was cut to 12 minute headways all day, the merging and unmerging is more random.

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1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

 

The thing about CPW Express is that the (A) and (D) merge in front of each other at 135th St, the (B) delays the (C) at 59th St and and cause delays, which then delays all the trains behind it. On paper, it works fine but in real life, your always guaranteed to get stuck behind an (A) or (D) or get delayed entering 59th St.

Speaking of CPW, I wonder if these delays occurred when the (B) ran to 168th St and the (C) to Bedford Park.

Ahh man don’t remind me of that merge at 59th street. That darn merge situation caused me to be late to work a few times. I would have to take the (B) from Rockerfeller Center to 81st  and if a (D) just passed chances are we would get stuck at 7th Ave, because the (D) would have to wait for the (A) to pass and then the (B) would get stuck having to wait for the (C) to pass it. Sometimes if there were more than one (D) train in front of the (B) it meant even more of a slow down especially if the (A) was backed up too. 

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3 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

The thing about CPW Express is that the (A) and (D) merge in front of each other at 135th St, the (B) delays the (C) at 59th St and and cause delays, which then delays all the trains behind it. On paper, it works fine but in real life, your always guaranteed to get stuck behind an (A) or (D) or get delayed entering 59th St.

Speaking of CPW, I wonder if these delays occurred when the (B) ran to 168th St and the (C) to Bedford Park.

Except for overnight! That's what I'm saying about really seeing the speed. I'd love to be a T/O on the (D) past 11pm s/b. Basically uninterrupted right-of-way for miles.

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12 hours ago, CenSin said:

The (B) these days:

* Brighton Beach: Hey, (Q), we’re already leaving.

* Sheepshead Bay: *huff* *puff* Why’d you leave us behind? 🥺

* Kings Highway: Oh hi there again! Finally caught up.

* Newkirk Plaza: Ahhh! It's gaining on us again!

Meh, this is more true when the (Q) is using R160s. But even then (when the (Q) was predominantly R160), the (B) was still faster since it skips way more stations.

The REAL problem with the (B), imo, is its frequency. If the (Q) shows up first, then of course it'll be faster.

Edited by Bay Ridge Express
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12 hours ago, Bay Ridge Express said:

Meh, this is more true when the (Q) is using R160s. But even then (when the (Q) was predominantly R160), the (B) was still faster since it skips way more stations.

The REAL problem with the (B), imo, is its frequency. If the (Q) shows up first, then of course it'll be faster.

Except I was on the (Q) when the (B) left Brighton Beach first. Not only did the (Q) leave Sheepshead Bay before the (B) even platformed, that two met across the platform at Kings Highway as well.

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Arriving at Kings Highway on the (B) to Brighton Beach. Conductor notified everyone that there's a (B) leaving a station. By the time the (B) I was on arrived at that station, there were 2 of them directly behind with a (Q) further down making a stop at Avenue J. 

This was around 6 PM and the next (Q) behind was 10 mins away. 

Edited by Calvin
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17 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

@Trainmaster5 was there ever a G.O where the (5) terminated and used the now-removed switch at Gun Hill Road?

I'm not sure which switch you're speaking of. There is/was? a switch between Gun Hill and 219th St on the WPR line that connected the express and local tracks leading north to 241St . Within that plant were the switches descending s/b to the 3rd Avenue lower level station. We used those switches to lay up trains on the abandoned lower level. I have relayed (5) trains up there but they terminated at East 180th St. and ran light (NIS) and relayed back south for service at East 180th. There was another switch located between Pelham Parkway and Gun Hill on the Dyre line. That was located at the end of the covered portal, basically at the Allerton Avenue underpass. The Pearsall switch, named after the company that made it. That switch was a hand throw switch connecting the two local tracks. The operation was 1 s/b train left Gun Hill down to Pelham Parkway, switch was thrown so the n/b train could cross over to the s/b track and stop at Gun Hill, Baychester, and on to Dyre and terminate. Basic single track operation with a baton giving permission to enter the area. No (5) trains ever terminated at Gun Hill/ Dyre in my career, in fact there was no G.O. or supplement that would cover that scenario. That's my recollection and that of a former Dyre dispatcher. I hope I answered your question. Carry on.

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19 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

I'm not sure which switch you're speaking of. There is/was? a switch between Gun Hill and 219th St on the WPR line that connected the express and local tracks leading north to 241St . Within that plant were the switches descending s/b to the 3rd Avenue lower level station. We used those switches to lay up trains on the abandoned lower level. I have relayed (5) trains up there but they terminated at East 180th St. and ran light (NIS) and relayed back south for service at East 180th. There was another switch located between Pelham Parkway and Gun Hill on the Dyre line. That was located at the end of the covered portal, basically at the Allerton Avenue underpass. The Pearsall switch, named after the company that made it. That switch was a hand throw switch connecting the two local tracks. The operation was 1 s/b train left Gun Hill down to Pelham Parkway, switch was thrown so the n/b train could cross over to the s/b track and stop at Gun Hill, Baychester, and on to Dyre and terminate. Basic single track operation with a baton giving permission to enter the area. No (5) trains ever terminated at Gun Hill/ Dyre in my career, in fact there was no G.O. or supplement that would cover that scenario. That's my recollection and that of a former Dyre dispatcher. I hope I answered your question. Carry on.

Never knew that. I learn something new every day. Always thought it was because the portal is located at the intersection of Pearsall and Mace avenues and Esplanade. 

The only (5) trains that I know of terminating at Gun Hill Road are White Plains Road (5)‘s. Before 2010, when I lived in the northeast Bronx, there would be many times when I took a Nereid-bound (5) home, only to get the conductor coming on at East 180 to say the next and last stop would be Gun Hill Road. Of course, this would be followed by groans, gripes, cursing and teeth-sucking without fail as everyone not going to Gun Hill (including me) would have to pour onto the platform to wait for the following (2) train    usually waiting outside the station. 

Edited by T to Dyre Avenue
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2 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Never knew that. I learn something new every day. Always thought it was because the portal is located at the intersection of Pearsall and Mace avenues and Esplanade. 

The only (5) trains that I know of terminating at Gun Hill Road are White Plains Road (5)‘s. Before 2010, when I lived in the northeast Bronx, there would be many times when I took a Nereid-bound (5) home, only to get the conductor coming on at East 180 to say the next and last stop would be Gun Hill Road. Of course, this would be followed by groans, gripes, cursing and teeth-sucking without fail as everyone not going to Gun Hill (including me) would have to pour onto the platform to wait for the following (2) train    usually waiting outside the station. 

There was an instructor who actually lived in the area who agreed with your interpretation of the switch naming, Pearsall but, being the rookie of the bunch, let the older guys run the show. I, personally, never looked at the name stamped on the equipment. I liked him because we were around the same age and he'd tell me about his train rides into Brooklyn in his younger days while I'd counter with my forays into Harlem and the Bronx. He actually rode the (2) from Dyre to New Lots while I rode the (2) from Rockaway Avenue to East 180th St because we both had free or nickel bus and subway passes in our school days. Going back to those WPR (5) trains I can understand the frustration at East 180th St. When I had my first picked job on the (5)  I made a trip from Utica to 241st St daily. Utica, not Flatbush, was the terminal back then. We always went to the terminal at 241st St. We'd clean out the train there and either lay it up at 239 yard or lay it up at Morris Park. With the later terminal swaps in Brooklyn it was decided to run the WPR (5) trains to Nereid and lay up from there. There ended up being too much congestion up there which delayed the (2) service so they decided to run some (5) trains up to Gun Hill middle and terminate them there. There was no established routine to which trains were affected so the dispatchers at East 180th and 241st worked it out on the fly. When the new signal system was installed up there the (2) line Supt. in Unionport tower could see the situation up there and call the shots himself if he so desired but usually left it up the local supervision. When things would fall apart in Brooklyn and every crew on the (2) and the (5) would come up late there were times when I would connect with a WPR bound train (2) or (5) leave together and I'd be at Dyre changing ends and charged up on the south motor and my buddies were still around 219th or 225th still headed n/b. Heck, when I was a rookie on the (3) line we'd sometimes be 5 behind on our intervals because of delays. That meant that on a 10 minute headway I'd be leaving Flatbush at the time I was supposed to be at Lenox-148 signing out and heading toward home. That's one reason why I shy away from threads where folks talk about de-interlining and running  more trains. It's a simple concept that we were taught in school car as conductors. To wit, as the rush hour winds down and trains are transitioning from a 4 to 7or8 minute headways ,absent a relief valve like Gun Hill middle, Westchester Square (6) or 111 St (7) to remove some trains early every place will suffer the problems you encountered. The longer the line ie. the (2) the (F) the worse the potential for delays is. Even a (4) or (5) terminating at Utica on the express track only needs one or two stragglers to delay service s/b and n/b. BTW we were taught this in school car because every conductor was potentially on the path to tower operator, ATD, T/D/,M/M/I, and Trainmaster. Enough of my history lesson. Back on track now. Carry on.

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