SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[QM1to6Ave]

Thanks, all, for the history on freight lines! It’s a topic I’ve always been interested in but never found much info about. This is all fascinating 

[Deucey]

11 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

What you are getting at about Amtrak isn't really its fault. Without proper infrastructure, there couldn't be HSR. What UK did is the same as what Nassau did with the MTA, privatize it with public ownership.

Not to mention that aside from the NEC, Amtrak leases trackage with the freight railroads at extortionate rates bc Congresspeople demand Amtrak serve Town "X" instead of Metro to Metro in exchange for annual appropriations.

End result is two-fold: NEC riders pay high ass fares to subsidize the relative lower fares the rest of the US pays, and never has enough to buy more trackage and save or make money.

[QM1to6Ave]

I had to catch the 1 train at Penn Station for the first time in a while, and it is just as "lovely" as always--two junkies shooting up heroin in front of everyone, another homeless person panhandling, and three others sleeping maskless or doing the "heroin nod" on the side of the platform. Not a cop in sight. Last time I was there, there were two cops and all the hobos magically disappeared. Sigh. I had emailed the NYPD Neighborhood Coordination Officers for the station a few weeks ago with my complaints but never heard back (no surprise there). 

[Deucey]

10 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

I had to catch the 1 train at Penn Station for the first time in a while, and it is just as "lovely" as always--two junkies shooting up heroin in front of everyone, another homeless person panhandling, and three others sleeping maskless or doing the "heroin nod" on the side of the platform. Not a cop in sight. Last time I was there, there were two cops and all the hobos magically disappeared. Sigh. I had emailed the NYPD Neighborhood Coordination Officers for the station a few weeks ago with my complaints but never heard back (no surprise there). 

Yeah when I worked by Penn, or have to do anything with the IRT at Penn I just walk to 28th Street if the crowds are big enough to make waiting on the express platforms horrid.

We really need to not have NYPD patrolling the subway or buses - NYCT PD needs to make a comeback, or since  PD is a thing, take a good number of them from their cushy jobs as 'Triple A with guns' on the bridges and put them in the stations.

[Mtatransit]

3 hours ago, Deucey said:

Not to mention that aside from the NEC, Amtrak leases trackage with the freight railroads at extortionate rates bc Congresspeople demand Amtrak serve Town "X" instead of Metro to Metro in exchange for annual appropriations.

End result is two-fold: NEC riders pay high ass fares to subsidize the relative lower fares the rest of the US pays, and never has enough to buy more trackage and save or make money.

Amtrak actually has preferential rates for access to the freight RR's track. That is one of the reasons freight RR's don't want to delay their trains for an Amtrak train (although by law they are suppose to). To know how this arrangement came to be, it was 1971, the RR's were bankrupt and falling, in exchange for dumping money losing passenger trains on the government, the RR's agreed to give Amtrak priority to their track at pre negotiated, below market rate as well as equipment or payment to the company to get it started.

This only covered Intercity passenger trains, Commuter rail remained under private railroad, which at that point were either shutting down or subsidized by the government (NJT,MNR)

But to keep the story short, no Congressman want to lose passenger train service once they have it. The Cardinal train runs from Chicago to NYC via WV and Washington DC. The old WV senator threaten to "zero" out funding if Amtrak eliminates "his" train.  Therefore Amtrak as an organization has to be national or nothing.

I would argue that the NEC was one of the best investment Amtrak made. It charges high prices because it can. In other places the quality of the train is not worth the premium price, so a lower price is charged. NEC does subsidize the national long distance routes.

It was too bad. In the 1980s Conrail was abandoning routes and main lines left and right. Amtrak could've picked up some of it to build high"er" speed rail. Too bad AMtrak had no money back then... or now. Its too late now to buy trackage because some of the main line are long gone and rebuilding them will cost astronomical.

 

[QM1to6Ave]

2 minutes ago, Deucey said:

Yeah when I worked by Penn, or have to do anything with the IRT at Penn I just walk to 28th Street if the crowds are big enough to make waiting on the express platforms horrid.

We really need to not have NYPD patrolling the subway or buses - NYCT PD needs to make a comeback, or since  PD is a thing, take a good number of them from their cushy jobs as 'Triple A with guns' on the bridges and put them in the stations.

HAHA those TBTA cops must sit in their cars all day and sleep, because they all seem to weigh 300 pounds

[vioreen]

I see that MTA agencies (MaBSTOA, Bus Co, and NYCT) within New York City jurisdiction are always hiring but, other MTA agencies (LIRR, MNR, SIRTOA) are never hiring, what's the story behind this? Also, I've realize how agencies (NYCT, BUS CO, LIRR, MNR, and MTA Bridges and Tunnels ) don't allow any transfers or promotion from one another's agency (NYCT to LIRR), what's the story behind this?

[Around the Horn]

2 hours ago, vioreen said:

I see that MTA agencies (MaBSTOA, Bus Co, and NYCT) within New York City jurisdiction are always hiring but, other MTA agencies (LIRR, MNR, SIRTOA) are never hiring, what's the story behind this?

They are hiring but it's not as publicized. SIR was accepting applicants for engineer and conductor two years running (didn't see anything last year for obvious reasons) 

[Deucey]

18 hours ago, vioreen said:

Also, I've realize how agencies (NYCT, BUS CO, LIRR, MNR, and MTA Bridges and Tunnels ) don't allow any transfers or promotion from one another's agency (NYCT to LIRR), what's the story behind this?

Going from one to another is a different contract and different union, so there's no real reason to give up your seniority to start all over again.

Add to it that they're all separate companies with different unions and ownership, and cross-division transfer isn't really something available. (NYCTA and the NYCT authorities are only run by , while Bus Co, B&T, and the railroads are owned by  but not actually merged together.

Geek mode: closest and simplest cognate is the Nissan-Renault-Mitsubishi alliance. Renault own a controlling share of Nissan, Nissan own a non-controlling share of Renault and a controlling share of Mitsubishi. They're all separate companies with separate employee groups, but coordinate ops and manufacturing and design so all three (eventually; Nissan and Renault do now) build most vehicles off common frames/platforms and share drivetrains, but factory workers at one can’t transfer to one of the others.

(Caveat: Bus Co will eventually going to merge legally with NYCT Bus, as bus ops is technically a tendered franchise from NYC DOT to NYCTA, Bus Co and MaBSTOA.)

Edited February 6, 2021 by Deucey
Finished the thought

[4 via Mosholu]

Is there expected to be elevated and open cut subway service as a result of another snowstorm happening tomorrow?

[Deucey]

27 minutes ago, 4 via Mosholu said:

Is there expected to be elevated and open cut subway service as a result of another snowstorm happening tomorrow?

It’s only forecast to be 3-6 inches so there probably won’t be any service cuts unless the accumulation is heavy or the forecast of total snow increases past 1 ft.

[trainfan22]

Found this pic on reddit, IDK how common it is but its my first time seeing it: Subway tracks on the Brooklyn Bridge...

 

[Deucey]

Why doesn't  make masks with the subway map on them - like TfL did?

https://www.mylondon.news/whats-on/shopping/london-underground-map-face-masks-19745100

[4 via Mosholu]

2 minutes ago, Deucey said:

Why doesn't  make masks with the subway map on them - like TfL did?

https://www.mylondon.news/whats-on/shopping/london-underground-map-face-masks-19745100

I really do not know; bet they gave up even trying to institute it particularly for the homeless. They likely know it is going to be temporary; same reason why they only marked the conductor/motorman position further by telling passengers to stand clear of them, even when on the IRT - they mostly gave it red conductor tapes to indicate the ends.

[Deucey]

8 minutes ago, 4 via Mosholu said:

I really do not know; bet they gave up even trying to institute it particularly for the homeless. They likely know it is going to be temporary; same reason why they only marked the conductor/motorman position further by telling passengers to stand clear of them, even when on the IRT - they mostly gave it red conductor tapes to indicate the ends.

It's more so a "let's make some quick money off a trend" thing. Plus more relevant memorabilia in the transit museum store and online could bring in that revenue.

Imagine if  was making the Line Posters instead of Lineposters.com...

Basically, sell some gimmicky crap for a quick buck - commercialize subway love.

[NoHacksJustKhaks]

4 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

Found this pic on reddit, IDK how common it is but its my first time seeing it: Subway tracks on the Brooklyn Bridge...

 

That must have been back when the elevated lines on fifth avenue, fulton street and myrtle used to exist. Subway service across the bridge ended in 1944 but streetcars still used the bridge until 1950, which is surprisingly recent. The bridge probably cannot even handle the steel subway cars used today, especially alongside the traffic besides it.

8 minutes ago, Deucey said:

It's more so a "let's make some quick money off a trend" thing.

Yeah, cloth masks have become another fashion item, I see them with all types of designs at malls now and some people own several of them for the designs. Really stark contrast from the disposable masks virtually everyone used nearly a year ago. While I prefer my masks plain, a subway mask would be nice to have, and who knows, the  may eventually sell it if mask wearing continues.

 

 

[Storm]

So I've always been wondering... 

Why are R46's and R68's advised to stay off the ?

Is it because of the sharp turns in the tracks?

Since Alstom bought Bombardier, will the "Bombardier R179's" become the "Alstom R179's"?

 

[Trainmaster5]

2 hours ago, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

That must have been back when the elevated lines on fifth avenue, fulton street and myrtle used to exist. Subway service across the bridge ended in 1944 but streetcars still used the bridge until 1950, which is surprisingly recent. The bridge probably cannot even handle the steel subway cars used today, especially alongside the traffic besides it.

 

 

 

Myrtle, Lexington, Fulton, Brighton, Fifth Avenue and LIRR used the tracks at one time or another to terminate at the Park Row station on the Manhattan side of the bridge. The trains that didn’t cross the bridge terminated at the Sands St station on the Brooklyn side. Part of the reason why I’ve always loved the BMT. Switches and interlockings everywhere. Trains ran on time with NO CBTC or ATS to be found 😃. Tower operators and supervisors who knew their stuff. My opinion. YMMV. Carry on.

[Deucey]

2 hours ago, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

Yeah, cloth masks have become another fashion item, I see them with all types of designs at malls now and some people own several of them for the designs. Really stark contrast from the disposable masks virtually everyone used nearly a year ago. While I prefer my masks plain, a subway mask would be nice to have, and who knows, the  may eventually sell it if mask wearing continues.

You know when everyone's "been chipped" and Rona is rare, masks will be out as soon as flu season is announced.

Maybe after this, at least in purple and blue states, folks will stop being penalized for taking sick days.

[Calvin]

2 hours ago, Stormxx said:

So I've always been wondering... 

Why are R46's and R68's advised to stay off the ?

Is it because of the sharp turns in the tracks?

Since Alstom bought Bombardier, will the "Bombardier R179's" become the "Alstom R179's"?

 

The 75 footers cannot fit the platforms as they are destined only for 8 62 ft car trains total. And yes, for the turns in the tracks. The Chystie St passageway on the  line is an example. 75 footers can't fit there. 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

12 hours ago, Calvin said:

The 75 footers cannot fit the platforms as they are destined only for 8 62 ft car trains total. And yes, for the turns in the tracks. The Chystie St passageway on the  line is an example. 75 footers can't fit there. 

Are they 62 or 60 feet long? For one car, it wouldn’t make much difference, but for an eight to ten-car trains, those 24 extra inches do add up. I thought the BMT Eastern Division (  ) platforms save Metropolitan Ave  could fit nine 60-foot car trains (Metro having been rebuilt in the 70s after a fire), which is only four feet longer than a train of eight 67-foot BMT steel cars, a.k.a., the Standards. 

13 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Myrtle, Lexington, Fulton, Brighton, Fifth Avenue and LIRR used the tracks at one time or another to terminate at the Park Row station on the Manhattan side of the bridge. The trains that didn’t cross the bridge terminated at the Sands St station on the Brooklyn side. Part of the reason why I’ve always loved the BMT. Switches and interlockings everywhere. Trains ran on time with NO CBTC or ATS to be found 😃. Tower operators and supervisors who knew their stuff. My opinion. YMMV. Carry on.

Just think, at one time we actually had direct LIRR service to Lower Manhattan and the heart of Downtown Brooklyn (Atlantic Terminal is on the edge of Downtown). We’ll never get that back now. Not without spending tens of billions of dollars we don’t have. 

15 hours ago, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

17 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

 

That must have been back when the elevated lines on fifth avenue, fulton street and myrtle used to exist. Subway service across the bridge ended in 1944 but streetcars still used the bridge until 1950, which is surprisingly recent. The bridge probably cannot even handle the steel subway cars used today, especially alongside the traffic besides it

I do see streetcar tracks to the right of those el tracks. It’s amazing how the Brooklyn Bridge had both back then. 

Edited February 7, 2021 by T to Dyre Avenue

[Trainmaster5]

8 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Are they 62 or 60 feet long? For one car, it wouldn’t make much difference, but for an eight to ten-car trains, those 24 extra inches do add up. I thought the BMT Eastern Division (  ) platforms save Metropolitan Ave  could fit nine 60-foot car trains (Metro having been rebuilt in the 70s after a fire), which is only four feet longer than a train of eight 67-foot BMT steel cars, a.k.a., the Standards. 

Just think, at one time we actually had direct LIRR service to Lower Manhattan and the heart of Downtown Brooklyn (Atlantic Terminal is on the edge of Downtown). We’ll never get that back now. Not without spending tens of billions of dollars we don’t have. 

I do see streetcar tracks to the right of those el tracks. It’s amazing how the Brooklyn Bridge had both back then. 

Was speaking to a school car classmate who saw your post and he laughed when he remembered my school car instructors and I discussing the LIRR and the subway. Question for my fellow posters.  The BMT connected with the LIRR for passenger service in the past. My two examples are Atlantic and Flatbush on the 5th Avenue El and the Chestnut Street connection to the Jamaica El. Follow this closely. The railroad runs East to West.  The subway is said to run North to South. My school car question was what determines the direction the train is headed toward. Remember that the LIRR was making mass transit stops in Brooklyn along Atlantic Avenue for years. My second question for my instructors was about the Rockaway Branch using the trestle before the fire. Since the railroad traveled East to West,  according to my instructors,  when a train traversed Hammels Wye and turned towards Rockaway Park what direction was it traveling in?  Train turning toward Far Rock?  Now that I put that out there in school car one instructor saw where I was going with the discussion.  Stand on the platform at Rockaway Blvd and look down at the remaining LIRR tracks. See the remains of the Ozone Park station?  Just past that station the RBB headed past Woodhaven toward the junction with the Mainline to Pennsylvania station. Also just past the Ozone Park station is the connection to the Atlantic Branch of the LIRR. Trains headed westbound,  right? train runs parallel to the Atlantic Branch all the way through Brooklyn. Our compromise became towards Manhattan,  especially when I threw the and the into the discussion and never mind the LIRR line from Penn to Jamaica and on to Far Rock and back to Manhattan. Just something to ponder.  Carry on. 

[Around the Horn]

On 2/7/2021 at 12:49 AM, Deucey said:

You know when everyone's "been chipped" and Rona is rare, masks will be out as soon as flu season is announced.

I can hear the "If you're feeling flu-like symptoms please wear a mask or face covering that covers your nose or mouth for your entire trip. Help us to keep NY healthy" PSA in my head already

[B35 via Church]

On 2/6/2021 at 9:05 PM, Deucey said:

Why doesn't  make masks with the subway map on them - like TfL did?

https://www.mylondon.news/whats-on/shopping/london-underground-map-face-masks-19745100

Although it would make some semblance of sense from a marketing standpoint, the same agency that opted to do away with paper schedules is not the same agency one should expect to make custom/MTA related masks

On 2/6/2021 at 10:00 PM, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

Yeah, cloth masks have become another fashion item, I see them with all types of designs at malls now and some people own several of them for the designs. Really stark contrast from the disposable masks virtually everyone used nearly a year ago. While I prefer my masks plain, a subway mask would be nice to have, and who knows, the  may eventually sell it if mask wearing continues.

I know of a youtuber that makes custom masks from the privacy of her own home & she makes bank off them too.....

On 2/7/2021 at 12:49 AM, Deucey said:

....Maybe after this, at least in purple and blue states, folks will stop being penalized for taking sick days.

....when as many folks stop abusing them, sure.

[vioreen]

On 2/6/2021 at 1:30 AM, Deucey said:

Going from one to another is a different contract and different union, so there's no real reason to give up your seniority to start all over again.

Add to it that they're all separate companies with different unions and ownership, and cross-division transfer isn't really something available. (NYCTA and the NYCT authorities are only run by , while Bus Co, B&T, and the railroads are owned by  but not actually merged together.

Geek mode: closest and simplest cognate is the Nissan-Renault-Mitsubishi alliance. Renault own a controlling share of Nissan, Nissan own a non-controlling share of Renault and a controlling share of Mitsubishi. They're all separate companies with separate employee groups, but coordinate ops and manufacturing and design so all three (eventually; Nissan and Renault do now) build most vehicles off common frames/platforms and share drivetrains, but factory workers at one can’t transfer to one of the others.

(Caveat: Bus Co will eventually going to merge legally with NYCT Bus, as bus ops is technically a tendered franchise from NYC DOT to NYCTA, Bus Co and MaBSTOA.)

Am wondering what's the hiring process like for each of these agencies ?