SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[Vulturious]

5 hours ago, CenSin said:

Cheaper to run over the bridge?

How would it be cheaper? If it's running local on 4th Av during the weekends, that's just going to add more wear and tear on the switches. You also have the issue of interfering with the  further since it's running along the bridge and then splitting up to run local and interfering further with  service. It's not like before where it interferes only once when it runs local on Broadway, but express on 4th Av, it has to cut it off twice. I'm assuming when you say "cheaper" you mean less  service to deal with? I could be wrong but that doesn't make it any cheaper and just useless. The only bright side to come from this is the  trains don't have to deal with the  only deals with the , but that's pretty much it. 

[RedLine]

On 3/2/2021 at 6:14 PM, vioreen said:

What is the current Booth number for Bergen Street station (IND Culver Line ) ? 

N532

[R10 2952]

Something random I've been thinking about; the designation of express/skip-stop variants of routes as diamonds versus letters.

Unless the variant is significantly different from the original route, is there really any point in it being a separate letter? Why  when it could've just been <1>? Why  when it could just be <J>?

Personally, i think they made the right call in designating the Culver express as  instead of some new letter.  Keeps things neat and simple. 

Edited March 4, 2021 by R10 2952

[Lex]

4 minutes ago, R10 2952 said:

Something random I've been thinking about; the designation of express/skip-stop variants of routes as diamonds versus letters.

Unless the variant is significantly different from the original route, is there really any point in it being a separate letter? Why  when it could've just been <1>? Why  when it could just be <J>?

Personally, i think they made the right call in designating the Culver express as  instead of some new letter.  Keeps things neat and simple. 

The  and  are/were the "B" designations for the  and  (the "A" designations). Unlike a local/express setup (one variant serves all stations while the other skips certain stations), a skip-stop setup requires variants to skip one station and serve the next, with some stations being served by all trains and no trains serving all stations.

[Cait Sith]

Spotted a 8-car train of R42s heading north along the 8th Avenue line earlier tonight. I guess they're going to 207 to get stripped and scrapped.

[R32 3838]

2 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

Spotted a 8-car train of R42s heading north along the 8th Avenue line earlier tonight. I guess they're going to 207 to get stripped and scrapped.

not going to scrap, from what i heard the scrap track is closed at 207th st yard. that's why they have 1 train of R42's at 38th st yard.

[NewFlyer 230]

I noticed that they finally reopened the closed entrance to 44th drive/ 23rd Street at Court Square on the Manhattan bound  and  train platform. 

[VIP]

Looks like those new “DANGER HIGH VOLTAGE” stickers (under door thresholds/above contact shoes of the trucks) are going to be added to All the cars in the B division.

[Calvin]

Did the MTA eliminated the redbirds that used to be in refuse service? I've seen a rail adhesion train image and recent trash trains that'll have an R42 paired with a adhesion car with an R32 while the numbered section has 1 R127 or another with R134 front to back

[CenSin]

On 3/4/2021 at 1:45 PM, Vulturious said:

How would it be cheaper? If it's running local on 4th Av during the weekends, that's just going to add more wear and tear on the switches. You also have the issue of interfering with the  further since it's running along the bridge and then splitting up to run local and interfering further with  service. It's not like before where it interferes only once when it runs local on Broadway, but express on 4th Av, it has to cut it off twice. I'm assuming when you say "cheaper" you mean less  service to deal with? I could be wrong but that doesn't make it any cheaper and just useless. The only bright side to come from this is the  trains don't have to deal with the  only deals with the , but that's pretty much it. 

Well, they could run less trains since there’s less mileage of track to run on and less run time.

[Vulturious]

3 minutes ago, CenSin said:

Well, they could run less trains since there’s less mileage of track to run on and less run time.

True, but how much does it save? Even with the less mileage, there's still that whole interfering with other lines stuff happening along with the wear and tear on the switches.

[Storm]

Sad to see the R42's go... They were my favorite SMEE.

On 3/4/2021 at 4:01 PM, R10 2952 said:

Something random I've been thinking about; the designation of express/skip-stop variants of routes as diamonds versus letters.

Unless the variant is significantly different from the original route, is there really any point in it being a separate letter? Why  when it could've just been <1>? Why  when it could just be <J>?

Personally, i think they made the right call in designating the Culver express as  instead of some new letter.  Keeps things neat and simple. 

I agree with you, because back when the  ran, some stations the  served, and some the  served. It was confusing for me, and some riders.

Some of you might disagree, but maybe there could be a Second Avenue shuttle.

Edited March 7, 2021 by Storm

[Lex]

15 minutes ago, Storm said:

Some of you might disagree, but maybe there could be a Second Avenue shuttle.

Okay, you really need to explain this one.

[Lex]

18 minutes ago, Storm said:

I agree with you, because back when the  ran, some stations the  served, and some the  served. It was confusing for me, and some riders.

That's an issue with general skip-stop service.

For what it's worth, calling a distinct designation is actually less confusing than relying strictly on a visual difference in a skip-stop setup, especially for those with low vision.

(To the mods: I tried to edit my previous post to add a response to this part after one formed in my head, only to be forced into a separate post.)

[QM1to6Ave]

I know the and have been essentially flipping routes in Manhattan the past few weekends, which is very confusing. Whats the reason for it? 

[Vulturious]

6 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

I know the and have been essentially flipping routes in Manhattan the past few weekends, which is very confusing. Whats the reason for it? 

 trains couldn't operate through Rutgers Tunnel. It was easier to swap them entirely because at least the stations south of West 4 St along the  would've been missed. Although, personally I would've just extended the  and cut the  since it was basically the  extended, just signed up as an . Sure it would've confused riders in Brooklyn, but at least people in Manhattan wouldn't have any issues. Then again that's just my opinion.

[B35 via Church]

3 hours ago, Storm said:

I agree with you, because back when the  ran, some stations the  served, and some the  served. It was confusing for me, and some riders.

Some of you might disagree, but maybe there could be a Second Avenue shuttle.

Quite the leap to go from skip-stop service confusion to shuttling 2nd av service....

[danielhg121]

12 hours ago, Calvin said:

Did the MTA eliminated the redbirds that used to be in refuse service? I've seen a rail adhesion train image and recent trash trains that'll have an R42 paired with a adhesion car with an R32 while the numbered section has 1 R127 or another with R134 front to back

Word on the street is that the Redbirds are going in the latest scrap contract as well. The R42's and maybe a few R32's will be put on B division garbage duty and the R127/134 will be shifted to IRT garbage duty. 

[R32 3838]

15 hours ago, Calvin said:

Did the MTA eliminated the redbirds that used to be in refuse service? I've seen a rail adhesion train image and recent trash trains that'll have an R42 paired with a adhesion car with an R32 while the numbered section has 1 R127 or another with R134 front to back

The R42's replaced the remaining R33WF cars that were used in the B division. As well as more R32's were added to the work fleet to push out the R127/134's to the IRT to bump out their Redbirds. The Only Redbirds that are still going to be in work service is the R33WF's that are used for the Dyre ave Rail adhesion Train and probably the signal dolly cars.

 

 

[Q44 SBS]

Hey everyone, I am doing a assignment for my journalism class and need to interview few people about the crimes on the subway. Feel free to dm me because I would like to ask a few questions. Thanks!

[darkstar8983]

16 hours ago, Vulturious said:

 trains couldn't operate through Rutgers Tunnel. It was easier to swap them entirely because at least the stations south of West 4 St along the  would've been missed. Although, personally I would've just extended the  and cut the  since it was basically the  extended, just signed up as an . Sure it would've confused riders in Brooklyn, but at least people in Manhattan wouldn't have any issues. Then again that's just my opinion.

I see why you would have wanted an "extended  " train (operated with  crews) and the opposite for the "truncated " operated with crews, similar to how the  and  flipped during the Clark St Tunnel Closure. However, sometimes, there are GO's that require a suspension of  trains along the Gowanus Stretch and Culver, which would have messed up servicing the shuttle portions of the routes. Meaning, do we call these shuttles  or  because the  is extended and the  is curtailed. 

[RR503]

On 3/4/2021 at 1:45 PM, Vulturious said:

How would it be cheaper? If it's running local on 4th Av during the weekends, that's just going to add more wear and tear on the switches. You also have the issue of interfering with the  further since it's running along the bridge and then splitting up to run local and interfering further with  service. It's not like before where it interferes only once when it runs local on Broadway, but express on 4th Av, it has to cut it off twice. I'm assuming when you say "cheaper" you mean less  service to deal with? I could be wrong but that doesn't make it any cheaper and just useless. The only bright side to come from this is the  trains don't have to deal with the  only deals with the , but that's pretty much it. 

It's about 10 minutes slower to go via tunnel from Canal to Dekalb. That's a 20 minutes of additional train cycle time, which means you need as many as two additional equipment sets (and crews) to run service, assuming 10 min headways. That's real $$$, to say nothing of real time losses for riders. The added merges are annoying and certainly do contribute to this system's chronic weekend reliability issues, but I think they made the right choice. 

20 hours ago, Vulturious said:

 trains couldn't operate through Rutgers Tunnel. It was easier to swap them entirely because at least the stations south of West 4 St along the  would've been missed. Although, personally I would've just extended the  and cut the  since it was basically the  extended, just signed up as an . Sure it would've confused riders in Brooklyn, but at least people in Manhattan wouldn't have any issues. Then again that's just my opinion.

Not necessarily. You could have run the plan they have now ( to Delancey,  to Brooklyn via Cranberry) with the swap taking place at West 4 rather than at 36 St. Two issues, though: 

- A W4 swap would have created a relatively complex junction operation there. On 8th local, you'd have s, s and s all trading places. At 5tph apiece, it's certainly possible to schedule this to work, but weekend junction ops need to be basically bulletproof given the generally variable operating environment + NYCT's reluctance to trust operators to punch correctly when operating GO routes. This latter problem is, in fact, one which disadvantages this service plan above and beyond the potential for delay: GOs which require diverges northbound at W4 generally are staffed with a 'spotter' whose job it is to confirm train identities to Tw/Os who then issue routes. 

- 8th Avenue CBTC is already creating a number of GOs, which would further complicate the W4 operation. On weekends where s are local, you'd be dealing with an additional 6tph through the merge at W4. On weekends when the local is out of service, you'd have to compose some alternate service plan, as neither A3 nor A4 track has direct access to 6th Avenue at W4. So to make the service plan more resilient to GOs, it's better to swap at 36.

Edited March 8, 2021 by RR503

[Storm]

23 hours ago, Lex said:

Okay, you really need to explain this one.

Ok, so:

1. The shuttle would run from 96th-57th/7th. The reason why I am mentioning this is because sometimes the  runs in two sections and SAS service runs every 20 mins.

2. This shuttle is only going to run on weekends.

Also, why does the  sometimes run up 2nd ave? Is it for additional service? Or is it because of a switch problem? Fill me in.

If it is for additional service, then that is proving my idea about a shuttle.

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Storm

[Vulturious]

1 minute ago, Storm said:

Ok, so:

1. The shuttle would run from 96th-57th/7th. The reason why I am mentioning this is because sometimes the  runs in two sections and SAS service runs every 20 mins.

2. This shuttle is only going to run on weekends.

Also, why does the  sometimes run up 2nd ave? Is it for additional service?

If it is, then that is proving my idea about a shuttle.

 

You're forgetting that the  has to deal with the  and . The  between Prospect Park and Dekalb Av because they both run on the same tracks, the  from Dekalb Av to 34 St-Herald Square. The  switches local north of that station and every other time such as late nights and weekends, it switches local north of Canal St. The  dealing with both those lines ends up decreasing service frequency along the line entirely which leads to the  being send up along SAS.

Because the  is interfering with the  and not being enough of it, it ends up getting rerouted, plus it's not the only line that gets rerouted. You have the  and  as well because 3 lines running along 60 St tunnel and the whole switch issue at Queensboro and other issues I can't think off the top of my head.

Having SAS run as a shuttle wouldn't exactly make it better because then you'd still have the  trying to terminate at 57 St-7 Av with the shuttle as well. That would mean less  trains to terminate. You would still have the  to deal with because it's switching local between 34 St-Herald Square and Times Square-42 St.

[Calvin]

 

42 minutes ago, Storm said:

 

Also, why does the  sometimes run up 2nd ave? Is it for additional service? Or is it because of a switch problem? Fill me in.

If it is for additional service, then that is proving my idea about a shuttle.

 

In simplicity, some  runs via Second Av during the rush hour b.c Astoria terminal cannot handle all the and  trains during the peak. So, some trains run over Second Av avoiding heavy traffic on Astoria. 

Similar to how some  trains run to/from Utica Av between 6:56AM-8:43 AM and 3:30-6:10 PM that Flatbush terminal cannot handle all the  and  trains all at once. 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Calvin