SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[Trainmaster5]

It's been fascinating to read the comments on the last few pages but let this Boomer offer my personal opinion. I come from a family of civil servants and professionals who grew up during the Depression and WW2. They were pretty well educated and,  for the most part,  liked what they did for a living. I was the oldest grandchild,  a Male, on both sides of my family and they had plans for my future. No one asked me if I agreed with the plans but that's what many people in my generation went through back then. Think of 1960-1966 and perhaps you can understand my thoughts. School came easy to me. Tell me what we were expected to learn each year from junior high to high school graduation and I'd read the relevant books the summer before I took the classes. The magic word was/is " memory ". When I graduated from high school I was sixteen years old and I dreaded the prospect of college. I went because it was expected of me but my grandmother,  the Matriarch of the family, told everyone to let me explore my options first. I had Lionel trains since grade school, watched the Lexington Avenue El run and be demolished, and lived by the Canarsie line and the BMT Atlantic Avenue,  Broadway Junction, Fulton El complex. Got a provisional job at Transit while in school and my mind was made up. Worked for private companies and civil service agencies but came back to NYCT as a C/R. My instructors were from all walks of life but there were a group of them that took me and two classmates under their wings. For those who understand we got the talk. Same one our elders gave us. As long as we did right our keisters were covered by them. They introduced me to a trainmaster and he looked out for me. There were a few a...hole supervisors who tried to screw over train crews but they were well known to us and they didn't park on the property after they were identified. Property Protection wouldn't help them either. To me what changed job wise was the retirement of the old guard and the emergence of the know it all class of supervisors. I include the bean counters in this group. It seemed that there was a group of supervisory personnel that were hired to discipline train crews exclusively. When I came up that level of confrontation was a rarity with discipline meted out in steps rather than demotion or termination. Someone asked a group of my mentors how come,  if I was so smart,  why didn't I become a supervisor like the questioner. They told him that I was taught by them making me automatically smarter than him. Sometimes I wonder if I could have made it to retirement working under the new Jack's of today.  My thoughts.  Carry on. 

[B35 via Church]

33 minutes ago, Trainmaster5 said:

It's been fascinating to read the comments on the last few pages but let this Boomer offer my personal opinion. I come from a family of civil servants and professionals who grew up during the Depression and WW2. They were pretty well educated and,  for the most part,  liked what they did for a living. I was the oldest grandchild,  a Male, on both sides of my family and they had plans for my future. No one asked me if I agreed with the plans but that's what many people in my generation went through back then. Think of 1960-1966 and perhaps you can understand my thoughts. School came easy to me. Tell me what we were expected to learn each year from junior high to high school graduation and I'd read the relevant books the summer before I took the classes. The magic word was/is " memory ". When I graduated from high school I was sixteen years old and I dreaded the prospect of college. I went because it was expected of me but my grandmother,  the Matriarch of the family, told everyone to let me explore my options first. I had Lionel trains since grade school, watched the Lexington Avenue El run and be demolished, and lived by the Canarsie line and the BMT Atlantic Avenue,  Broadway Junction, Fulton El complex. Got a provisional job at Transit while in school and my mind was made up. Worked for private companies and civil service agencies but came back to NYCT as a C/R. My instructors were from all walks of life but there were a group of them that took me and two classmates under their wings. For those who understand we got the talk. Same one our elders gave us. As long as we did right our keisters were covered by them. They introduced me to a trainmaster and he looked out for me. There were a few a...hole supervisors who tried to screw over train crews but they were well known to us and they didn't park on the property after they were identified. Property Protection wouldn't help them either. To me what changed job wise was the retirement of the old guard and the emergence of the know it all class of supervisors. I include the bean counters in this group. It seemed that there was a group of supervisory personnel that were hired to discipline train crews exclusively. When I came up that level of confrontation was a rarity with discipline meted out in steps rather than demotion or termination. Someone asked a group of my mentors how come,  if I was so smart,  why didn't I become a supervisor like the questioner. They told him that I was taught by them making me automatically smarter than him. Sometimes I wonder if I could have made it to retirement working under the new Jack's of today.  My thoughts.  Carry on. 

Smarts or intelligence has squat to do with being a (good) supervisor; the best players tend to not make the best coaches or the best front office personnel anyway...

[Trainmaster5]

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

Smarts or intelligence has squat to do with being a (good) supervisor; the best players tend to not make the best coaches or the best front office personnel anyway...

Gotta agree with you 100% . The best supervisors I have ever worked with took advice from all perspectives when making decisions. We all had our input considered. 

[Lawrence St]

4 minutes ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Gotta agree with you 100% . The best supervisors I have ever worked with took advice from all perspectives when making decisions. We all had our input considered. 

And now its just an ego situation with most of the supervisors in transit. They have a bad day, they take it out on you. It's a horrible toxic work environment.

You don't get this kind of toxic work environment when working for a small time company, like Red & Tan or Coach USA independent operators. Hell even in Rapid Transit, LA Metro has a better supervision team for the subway then we do here.

[Deucey]

8 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

That's all well & good, but there is this belief that they can just start a business & the money will just come rolling in...

I’ve worked in Startups - and around startups in accelerators/incubators/combinators long enough to tell you that it’s true - the bulk of these equity funds will throw money at almost any idea even if the people who have it have no practical experience doing it.

When you have time, read up on a vending machine startup that used to be called “Bodega”.

[R10 2952]

3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Smarts or intelligence has squat to do with being a (good) supervisor; the best players tend to not make the best coaches or the best front office personnel anyway...

1 hour ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Gotta agree with you 100% . The best supervisors I have ever worked with took advice from all perspectives when making decisions. We all had our input considered. 

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

And now its just an ego situation with most of the supervisors in transit. They have a bad day, they take it out on you. It's a horrible toxic work environment.

You don't get this kind of toxic work environment when working for a small time company, like Red & Tan or Coach USA independent operators. Hell even in Rapid Transit, LA Metro has a better supervision team for the subway then we do here.

I'm not in transit, but I have been in the public sector for a few years now; the words above are a down-to-the-T description of a supervisor I worked for not too long ago.

Guy was never a star performer, always 'my way', egotistical, micromanagerial attitude.  Yet somehow, he managed to get kicked upstairs, fail upwards, or what have you.  He has shafted subordinates left and right, and was overall a dickish, pedantic bastard, but since the organization allows supervisors to simultaneously be part of management and members in the union, he would play both sides of the fence.  All the authority of a managerial-level employee, with all the benefits that come from starting work when you were 17-18 and having 30 years on the job.  Human Resources wouldn't lift a finger because the dude was management; union protected him at all costs on account of seniority.  Basically untouchable.

Don't normally go on these kind of tangential rants, but it's only 2-3 times in my life (believe it or not) that I've personally encountered such an unpleasant excuse for a human being in the employment context.  Am glad I moved on from that particular experience, really and truly.

Edited March 22, 2021 by R10 2952

[B35 via Church]

2 hours ago, Deucey said:

I’ve worked in Startups - and around startups in accelerators/incubators/combinators long enough to tell you that it’s true - the bulk of these equity funds will throw money at almost any idea even if the people who have it have no practical experience doing it.

When you have time, read up on a vending machine startup that used to be called “Bodega”.

It isn't (true) for a whole generation of people though, was the ultimate point being made in the entirety of that particular post.... Everyone isn't going to start a business & have it be profitable...

4 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

You don't get this kind of toxic work environment when working for a small time company, like Red & Tan or Coach USA independent operators. Hell even in Rapid Transit, LA Metro has a better supervision team for the subway then we do here.

False belief & it's a common one..... Bad supervisors with tenure in a company have less to do with the size of a company & more to do with the culture that's fostered from the top down...

2 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

I'm not in transit, but I have been in the public sector for a few years now; the words above are a down-to-the-T description of a supervisor I worked for not too long ago.

Guy was never a star performer, always 'my way', egotistical, micromanagerial attitude.  Yet somehow, he managed to get kicked upstairs, fail upwards, or what have you.  He has shafted subordinates left and right, and was overall a dickish, pedantic bastard, but since the organization allows supervisors to simultaneously be part of management and members in the union, he would play both sides of the fence.  All the authority of a managerial-level employee, with all the benefits that come from starting work when you were 17-18 and having 30 years on the job.  Human Resources wouldn't lift a finger because the dude was management; union protected him at all costs on account of seniority.  Basically untouchable.

Don't normally go on these kind of tangential rants, but it's only 2-3 times in my life (believe it or not) that I've personally encountered such an unpleasant excuse for a human being in the employment context.  Am glad I moved on from that particular experience, really and truly.

....and examples/situations/occurrences like that is why you have the people that abhor unions, abhor unions.

Edited March 22, 2021 by B35 via Church

[Lawrence St]

8 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

I'm not in transit, but I have been in the public sector for a few years now; the words above are a down-to-the-T description of a supervisor I worked for not too long ago.

Guy was never a star performer, always 'my way', egotistical, micromanagerial attitude.  Yet somehow, he managed to get kicked upstairs, fail upwards, or what have you.  He has shafted subordinates left and right, and was overall a dickish, pedantic bastard, but since the organization allows supervisors to simultaneously be part of management and members in the union, he would play both sides of the fence.  All the authority of a managerial-level employee, with all the benefits that come from starting work when you were 17-18 and having 30 years on the job.  Human Resources wouldn't lift a finger because the dude was management; union protected him at all costs on account of seniority.  Basically untouchable.

Don't normally go on these kind of tangential rants, but it's only 2-3 times in my life (believe it or not) that I've personally encountered such an unpleasant excuse for a human being in the employment context.  Am glad I moved on from that particular experience, really and truly.

I sadly keep encountering these selfish and disgusting supervisors. It sucks.

[bobtehpanda]

15 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

And now its just an ego situation with most of the supervisors in transit. They have a bad day, they take it out on you. It's a horrible toxic work environment.

You don't get this kind of toxic work environment when working for a small time company, like Red & Tan or Coach USA independent operators. Hell even in Rapid Transit, LA Metro has a better supervision team for the subway then we do here.

Well it could always be worse. WMATA is downright dysfunctional. https://www.washingtonian.com/2015/12/09/why-does-metro-suck-dangerous-accidents-escalator-outages/

Quote

To some veterans, the new hires were a threat to their paydays. “The trainers warned us about that,” says Colvin. “They were like, ‘Look, [controllers are] going to be hostile toward you because you’re cutting into their overtime.’ ”

The hostilities extended to other parts of the agency. Controllers and train operators were constantly at one another’s throats because, according to the trainees, controllers belittled operators. “They treat operators as if they aren’t capable of doing anything,” Watkins says. “And [the veterans] told us that. They said, ‘Don’t trust operators.’ ”

The men say operators would occasionally get so mad that they would “break the train” by dumping the air out of brake lines. The maneuver temporarily disables the train and requires ROCC staff to go through a lengthy troubleshooting protocol. “[Operators] will do something like this because they think, ‘Well, you screwed me, I screw you,’ ” Colvin says. But riders feel the brunt of it, too—they have to sit and wait (or offload) until the situation is resolved.

Controllers can’t prove operators sabotage trains for personal retribution, but the trainees say the practice is well known. ROCC veterans kept track of repeat “train breakers,” Watkins says, and trainees were warned about one driver who “was almost guaranteed to break her train if she didn’t like the way you talked to her.” A Metro spokeswoman says, “We have no reason to believe this is a widespread or systemic issue.”

The trainees were equally disturbed by the poor safety practices they witnessed. The ROCC was noisy and chaotic; controllers yelled across the room and were distracted by their cell phones. Radio communication with trains was often impossible because dead spots exist throughout the system. Alarms sounded constantly, triggered by everything from power surges to water in tunnels—although many were false warnings. “It’s well over a thousand alarms a day,” Watkins says. “But they ignore pretty much all of them.”

How was this dysfunction tolerated? Leverage. Because controllers—the most critical employees—were in such short supply, they were allowed to follow their own rules. “The ROCC is like God at WMATA,” Scarbrough says. “They operate kind of autonomously from the rest of the company.”

It’s a self-reinforcing problem. Metro hasn’t been able to improve the ROCC culture because it’s so beholden to the current personnel—yet the current personnel are a big part of the staff shortage. Despite a concerted effort to recruit and train new hires, Metro added just three controllers between 2011 and 2015, the FTA says.

 

[R10 2952]

11 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

....and examples/situations/occurrences like that is why you have the people that abhor unions, abhor unions.

My whole problem with many unions is that they protect on the basis of seniority as opposed to actual merit.  Scumbag teachers in high school, slacker co-workers and supervisors on the job that made my skin crawl.

I don't support the whole corporate-backed "right to work" union-busting, but I do firmly believe that if unions want to win back the respect and support of the general public, they need to come clean and devise a new way of doing things so that they protect those who deserve actual protection.  Don't back up the bad apples- cut them loose instead.  Also, supervisors should never be allowed to be union.  Once you make it to management, that's it.  You don't need the same protection that an entry-level employee needs.

Because right now too many unions operate like Hoffa and the Teamsters; saw Scorsese's film The Irishman last year and I was like, 'Hey, their sit-downs are just like my local's monthly meetings' 🤔

Edited March 22, 2021 by R10 2952

[Lawrence St]

18 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

....and examples/situations/occurrences like that is why you have the people that abhor unions, abhor unions.

 

6 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

My whole problem with many unions is that they protect on the basis of seniority as opposed to actual merit.  Scumbag teachers in high school, slacker co-workers and supervisors on the job that made my skin crawl.

I don't support the whole corporate-backed "right to work" union-busting, but I do firmly believe that if unions want to win back the respect and support of the general public, they need to come clean and devise a new way of doing things so that they protect those who deserve actual protection.  Don't back up the bad apples- cut them loose instead.  Also, supervisors should never be allowed to be union.  Once you make it to management, that's it.  You don't need the same protection that an entry-level employee needs.

Because right now too many unions operate like Hoffa and the Teamsters; saw Scorsese's film The Irishman last year and I was like, 'Hey, their sit-downs are just like my local's monthly meetings' 🤔

Especially in regards to probation. It makes no sense that you can't have union representatives represent you while on probation. Not to mention that the year long probation is also dragged out for no reason, at most it should be 90 days, like everywhere else. If that's to much, probations should be reduced after 90 days.

To many good people have been fired from transit because of this dumbass rule and ruin their career over something that wasn't even their fault. Excuse my language.

[Deucey]

How to know you’re having an off day:

I switched from  to  at Nevins Street even though my destination is Franklin Av.

[R68ACTrain]

6 hours ago, Deucey said:

How to know you’re having an off day:

I switched from  to  at Nevins Street even though my destination is Franklin Av.

thats like going to Alabama Avenue from Chauncey, and taking a  to Bway Jct, and then a  to the next stop lmao

[CenSin]

On 3/21/2021 at 7:45 PM, B35 via Church said:

when you're "woke"

A decade ago, being “woke” was good. It implied that you were privy to some knowledge of the world that the masses were unaware of. Now I’m getting the sense that people are using it ironically to mean those who’ve ascended Mt. Stupid (c.f., Dunning-Kruger effect).

[MHV9218]

43 minutes ago, CenSin said:

A decade ago, being “woke” was good. It implied that you were privy to some knowledge of the world that the masses were unaware of. Now I’m getting the sense that people are using it ironically to mean those who’ve ascended Mt. Stupid (c.f., Dunning-Kruger effect).

Pepperidge Farm Remembers when Chance said 'now I'm woke I'm wide awake' and we all thought it was a good thing. Now it's corny as hell and the people practicing it can't see the forest for the trees. 

[R10 2952]

2 hours ago, CenSin said:

A decade ago, being “woke” was good. It implied that you were privy to some knowledge of the world that the masses were unaware of. Now I’m getting the sense that people are using it ironically to mean those who’ve ascended Mt. Stupid (c.f., Dunning-Kruger effect).

2 hours ago, MHV9218 said:

Pepperidge Farm Remembers when Chance said 'now I'm woke I'm wide awake' and we all thought it was a good thing. Now it's corny as hell and the people practicing it can't see the forest for the trees. 

Yeah, these things tend to follow a cycle where they become a popular fad and then things get out of hand.  Fidget spinners, selfie sticks, wokeness, the whole "yeet" thing... I don't get it.

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by R10 2952

[Deucey]

10 hours ago, MHV9218 said:

Pepperidge Farm Remembers when Chance said 'now I'm woke I'm wide awake' and we all thought it was a good thing. Now it's corny as hell and the people practicing it can't see the forest for the trees. 

As it goes whenever AAVE gets appropriated by “suburb-dwellers” who don’t respect the definition and the context.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Deucey

[Calvin]

The R62A Shuttle units 1941 and 1956 now have the middle-seats removed.  Probably all 29 units to have seating from left to right only, middle point is entirely standing room. 

Edited March 25, 2021 by Calvin

[Storm]

On 3/23/2021 at 11:06 PM, MHV9218 said:

Pepperidge Farm Remembers when Chance said 'now I'm woke I'm wide awake' and we all thought it was a good thing. Now it's corny as hell and the people practicing it can't see the forest for the trees. 

thought we were talking about transit?

9 hours ago, Calvin said:

The R62A Shuttle units 1941 and 1956 now have the middle-seats removed.  Probably all 29 units to have seating from left to right only, middle point is entirely standing room. 

The shuttle is gonna have 6 car sets, idk when that'll be done though

[MHV9218]

1 hour ago, Storm said:

thought we were talking about transit?

Not on the Random Thoughts thread...

[jon2305]

Happy Friday everyone, hope everyone's safe out there and their love ones are too. 

Just want to give my respects & condolences to the family of Garrett Goble, motorman who was killed in the line of duty during the midst of the pandemic approximately past 3am tonight (one year ago). It was truly disgusting and upsetting the way he went out and the unnecessary circumstances of why this had to happen to an essential worker and most importantly human being. Wishing all the MTA workers out there a great weekend and stay safe. Ya'll keep the city moving without a shadow of a doubt. 

[Trainmaster5]

Happened to run into a fellow retiree while we were waiting for the Covid-19 shot recently. We kicked it about the latest scuttlebutt in RTO . Seems that someone caught wind of my complaint on the forums about " flexibility" when it comes to subways and operations. He loved the R142/ R142A NTT equipment while I tolerated it, for want of a better word. The NTT trains were definitely more comfortable to operate because the full cabs had room that the older SMEE cars lacked. I fully understand the cost savings by ordering 4 and 5 car consists rather than the single or married pair units purchased in the past. When I told him that my personal favorite was a single car, the R62A we had on the  when they were new he couldn't figure out why. I explained to him that I was a transfer guy who took single cars from the IRT, picked up single R10 cars for both ends of my transfer at Concourse Yard and headed down to Ave X Yard to supply the horses for the AM crew to bring the 62 equipment up to the IRT. Always single cars. When I picked a road job I went to the  line while they were transitioning to the overhauled married pairs. One morning I was working OT on a trip from New Lots to East 180th St. Same train I laid up the night before coming down from Dyre. Get to Borough Hall ( Lex) n/b and the train failed to take power. That day I became the poster " boy" for what we called other than head end operation. Motor Instructor from Nevins showed up and after discharging we took that train from Brooklyn to 59th St Lexington spur on the  . I was up front reading the signals while he was in the 3rd car taking power and watching the air gauge to see if I was braking. We operated buzzer and bypass into the spur and changed ends. After the rush I got the lineup to proceed s/b , dropped the Motor instructor off at Brooklyn Bridge, looped the train and headed up to East 180 Yard to A lead. There was a G.O. working there and I changed ends and waited, ....and waited. Got a clear signal and waited some more. The tower operator caught on but I wonder how many of my fellow posters see the problem. The Yard Dispatcher finally caught on after 20 minutes and sent some help. I was due at East 180th St at 9:02 am but when I got to the dispatcher's office and called Command Center it was 11;53. The Desk Supt paid me my OT, asked me to relay a train (on paper) so he could pay me from 6;30 am to my starting time of 2 pm. What I did that day, and another time when my train died at Newkirk Avenue n/b and I repeated my other than head end operation to Nevins spur, with an RCI, out to New Lots Yard, switching the dead cars to the south end, and up to East 180th Yard. When I left East 180th that night with 10 good cars I was already on OT. Got to Livonia Yard and when I called the Desk Supt he told me that he authorized me to move the train from Newkirk sans TSS because he was aware of my record. My coworker had heard about my exploits in school car but he never knew who I was until Thursday afternoon. The young lady who was his school car instructor, and my friend, never mentioned any names. She did tell them that what I did could not be done with link barred NTT. The rule back then was that you needed X amount of operable equipment to compensate for the "dead" cars. An 8 or 10 car NTT in link bar would only be considered one dead (car) and one live car, hence you would need 5 more NTT cars added up in order to move the dead train. The Brother told me that a NTT had died in the Joralemon tube after I retired and it was hell trying to move it. 15 car mainline transfers were unheard of in my time. My experiences. Carry on.

[Maxwell179]

3166 on the  has new headlights , idk if anyone noticed that before.

[MHV9218]

I really wish we still had 32s on the to watch the new pace in the Cranberry tubes. The old 30mph limit is now 45mph, I understand. Not sure if that just looks like a GT40 closer to the bottom or what. Those cars were getting to 42 or 43 in the past anyway, but that was with the old timers.

[TrainRider Railfan]

55 minutes ago, MHV9218 said:

I really wish we still had 32s on the to watch the new pace in the Cranberry tubes. The old 30mph limit is now 45mph, I understand. Not sure if that just looks like a GT40 closer to the bottom or what. Those cars were getting to 42 or 43 in the past anyway, but that was with the old timers.

I remember going through Cranberry in an R32. They had great RFWs. I wish they were still around. Oh well, they were getting pretty old.