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EE Broadway Local

SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

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4 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

It was low before yes, but it has grown considerably that a platform / car extension shouldn't be to hard to do. 

Perhaps returning the franklin shuttle to 10 cars and booting the (B) off Brighton and having the (Q) be the sole express could fix the loading and interlining problems that line has. Sure, Brighton Local riders lose direct access to Manhattan but at least the loads will balance themselves out on the (Q) .

Or, they could tie in Franklin Shuttle to Crosstown, have the (Q) run from Coney Island to 21st St, then connecting it with the (F) at 63rd St to Whitehall St.

Assuming pre-Covid here...

Both (B) and (Q) trains are very crowded during morning rush hour leaving Church Av, to the point that riders at 7th Avenue may sometimes have to wait for the next train. A lot of people get off at Atlantic Avenue to transfer to other trains. The idea is interesting in that riders would still be able to transfer at Botanical Garden for the IRT, but you are definitely underestimating how many people taking the (B) and (Q) actually want their respective lines... They both have many riders going into Canal and Grand Streets. There really isn't any reasonable way of extending the Franklin Shuttle south, unless you send it all the way to Brighton Beach or Coney Island. I suggested a few years ago to extend one of the Botanical Garden platforms to 10 cars, so the (Q) could run there during G/Os for the IRT transfer, but in its current state the Franklin Shuttle doesn't really need upgrades beyond that. Connecting it to the (G) would be great, but is pretty much a pipe dream at this point.

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On 3/30/2021 at 2:58 PM, R32 3838 said:

have you  ridden the R46's on the (N)(Q) lately?  they run like garbage. CBTC is active on queens blvd and the (M) has a dedicated fleet of R160's due to cbtc.

spare factor is important, this is why they took so long to restore (C)(F) service. They don't trust the R179's when it comes to Reliable service and to avoid having to use some R32's due to cost and covid.

 

Funny thing is everyone had this same attitude when the r179's were pulled and thought the R32's weren't gonna run. And i told people the (J) needed cars because the (L) was returning to full service. and when they opened up the city partially, the (L) was packed to the brim at 7am in the morning.

 

Riding it this weekend, it seems most of the (N) are NTTs once again. I’ve seen a few R46s, but I’ve boarded trains at random times and it’s been a consecutive string of NTTs.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

It was low before yes, but it has grown considerably that a platform / car extension shouldn't be to hard to do. 

Perhaps returning the franklin shuttle to 10 cars and booting the (B) off Brighton and having the (Q) be the sole express could fix the loading and interlining problems that line has. Sure, Brighton Local riders lose direct access to Manhattan but at least the loads will balance themselves out on the (Q) .

Or, they could tie in Franklin Shuttle to Crosstown, have the (Q) run from Coney Island to 21st St, then connecting it with the (F) at 63rd St to Whitehall St.

Even before renovations, I don’t think the Franklin (S) ever ran 10-car trains. Four is the most cars I’ve ever seen in the NYCTA/MTA era. And that’s 60-foot cars, which is less than twice the length of the current two-car R68 trains. Though the renovated shuttle platforms probably can’t berth even a 240-foot train, like the originals could. 

I’m fine with tying the (S) into the (G) and going as far as Long Island City. Of course that would require lengthening the shuttle platforms, because if you think four-car (G) trains aren’t cutting it on the Crosstown, imagine how bad it would be with (S) trains that are only two cars long.

I definitely don’t think the (Q) should be rerouted onto the Franklin (S) and (G) routes, then via 63rd St. That’s way too much merging and it will cause way too many delays on top of the merging delays we already have. And what would replace the (Q) on 2nd Ave? 

I also don’t think the Franklin (S) should replace the (Q) as the Brighton Local, with the (Q) displacing the (B) as the express. If you think people ditching the (R) in favor of the (D) or (N) at 36th or 59th is bad, this will be way worse. At least the (R) goes to Manhattan like the other trains. And with full-length trains. The Franklin (S) doesn’t. 

15 hours ago, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

Ridership on the Franklin Av Shuttle is low compared to the rest of the system. And I believe one of the two platforms at the old Franklin Av stop were already disused, before it was renovated. The MTA did consider sacking the line entirely since it was considered decrepit, and incredibly costly to renovate. Many problems persisted too, it had huge amounts of fare-beating at the time which was part of why Dean Street closed.

The MTA’s main goal with fixing the line was to cut the waste (including removing unused platforms or extra track) that were not needed, and to remove that awful paper transfer that allowed farebeating between Franklin Av and the Fulton line. I can only guess that all else was noise to the agency.

Right, I remember the Times doing a piece about how Dean Street was the least-used and most decrepit station on an already decrepit, low-use line. It closed before the rest of the line did. And not too soon. I seem to recall reading elsewhere in the forums that the money used to renovate the Franklin Shuttle was originally intended to renovate the Steinway Tunnels and Corona Barn in preparation for the New Tech trains on the (7), which may explain why the (6) became 100% R142As in 2002, while its R62As and the (3)‘s were sent packing to Queens back then. 

1 hour ago, CenSin said:

Riding it this weekend, it seems most of the (N) are NTTs once again. I’ve seen a few R46s, but I’ve boarded trains at random times and it’s been a consecutive string of NTTs.

I think I’ve only gotten R160s once on the (N) in the last few weeks. But then, I almost always seem to get the older trains on a train lines that run both old and new trains. Just like when I lived in Boston and took the Red Line, I always seemed to get the old-tech 1500s, 1600s and 1700s series trains vs the “new tech” 1800s series trains.

Edited by T to Dyre Avenue

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5 hours ago, CenSin said:

Riding it this weekend, it seems most of the (N) are NTTs once again. I’ve seen a few R46s, but I’ve boarded trains at random times and it’s been a consecutive string of NTTs.

I headed to Midtown on the (Q) on Wednesday and nearly all of the trains I saw on the (N) and even (W) on Broadway (I saw ~12 total trains) were R160 (and of course, none on the (Q))... I still don't understand what happened to sharing R160s with the (Q) like there was before circa December 2020 (with the (N)(Q)(W) sharing a pool) because living along the Brighton line, I see none at all (except for maybe one during the AM rush, but even that technically didn't come from a real (Q) due to rush-hour put-ins, if that makes sense), just almost entirely R46s with a few R68/As sprinkled in.

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43 minutes ago, Tonyboy515 said:

I headed to Midtown on the (Q) on Wednesday and nearly all of the trains I saw on the (N) and even (W) on Broadway (I saw ~12 total trains) were R160 (and of course, none on the (Q))... I still don't understand what happened to sharing R160s with the (Q) like there was before circa December 2020 (with the (N)(Q)(W) sharing a pool) because living along the Brighton line, I see none at all (except for maybe one during the AM rush, but even that technically didn't come from a real (Q) due to rush-hour put-ins, if that makes sense), just almost entirely R46s with a few R68/As sprinkled in.

Because Astoria residents kept complaining that the R46's were displaying the wrong route information between the (N) and (W) so they try to keep all the 160's on the (N).

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The R46 use to have a master control similar to the NTT, why was it changed ? and why is that blue stripe removed from the R46?

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2 hours ago, vioreen said:

The R46 use to have a master control similar to the NTT, why was it changed ? and why is that blue stripe removed from the R46?

Like the 44, the 46 got a pneumatic brake system that was not tested before; they switched the controller to the Cineston controller which let motormen use their wrench by the side of the controller box, and the brake system was updated to the NYAB NewTran SMEE braking system. As far as the blue stripe goes, it was prone to getting hit by graffiti during the worst years of the corporate era, so they removed it completely during the General Overhaul Program.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Tonyboy515 said:

I headed to Midtown on the (Q) on Wednesday and nearly all of the trains I saw on the (N) and even (W) on Broadway (I saw ~12 total trains) were R160 (and of course, none on the (Q))... I still don't understand what happened to sharing R160s with the (Q) like there was before circa December 2020 (with the (N)(Q)(W) sharing a pool) because living along the Brighton line, I see none at all (except for maybe one during the AM rush, but even that technically didn't come from a real (Q) due to rush-hour put-ins, if that makes sense), just almost entirely R46s with a few R68/As sprinkled in.

Besides that AM rush tripper that's a R160 from the (R) . Sometimes, during the weekdays: PM, you can still see a (Q) using a R160 Manhattan bound to 96 St, (between Canal St and the Second Av line) only to run via the (N) line from the Coney Island terminal via 4 Avenue. 

The TA on the Astoria line tries to keep all the R160s running on the (N) (maybe 1 for lay-up during the weekend) so that the R46s aren't used a lot. 

 

Going to the (N)(Q)(W) using the leftover R160s, the TA finds it best to keep the remaining R160s that are currently Alstom propulsion running on the Astoria line as mentioned, rollsign changes, or an (N) being a (W)  and multiple terminals during the weekday. Also, the (N) has a lot of route patterns on the line: example: Local in Brooklyn, Express in Manhattan, Broadway Express etc. Versus the (Q) being all R46, having its own Second Av line: the route has from A to B (just 1 last stop each). All that takes is a code displaying "96 St/2 Av" and "Coney Island".  

Edited by Calvin

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19 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Because Astoria residents kept complaining that the R46's were displaying the wrong route information between the (N) and (W) so they try to keep all the 160's on the (N).

They don’t try, they do it. The R160’s out of Coney Island yard are a mainstay on the (N) Astoria residents have nothing to do with the R160’s being back on the line. It’s for maintenance reasons such as mileage and barn servicing. They knew the R160’s were going to be heavily utilized due to failures of the R46 equipment. To keep track of mileage, and various other wear and tear they felt it was best to keep them on one of their longest line which is the (N) ; sign changes during the week with the (W) running played a role in assigning the R160’s to the (N) and it’s easier for Ditmars dispatchers to send out trains to keep service intervals on or close to schedule.

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15 hours ago, Calvin said:

Besides that AM rush tripper that's a R160 from the (R) . Sometimes, during the weekdays: PM, you can still see a (Q) using a R160 Manhattan bound to 96 St, (between Canal St and the Second Av line) only to run via the (N) line from the Coney Island terminal via 4 Avenue. 

The TA on the Astoria line tries to keep all the R160s running on the (N) (maybe 1 for lay-up during the weekend) so that the R46s aren't used a lot. 

 

Going to the (N)(Q)(W) using the leftover R160s, the TA finds it best to keep the remaining R160s that are currently Alstom propulsion running on the Astoria line as mentioned, rollsign changes, or an (N) being a (W)  and multiple terminals during the weekday. Also, the (N) has a lot of route patterns on the line: example: Local in Brooklyn, Express in Manhattan, Broadway Express etc. Versus the (Q) being all R46, having its own Second Av line: the route has from A to B (just 1 last stop each). All that takes is a code displaying "96 St/2 Av" and "Coney Island".  

They need to start using the spare R160’s from the (F) that’s stored in Avenue X yard for a few trips or weekends on the (Q) 

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2 hours ago, VIP said:

They need to start using the spare R160’s from the (F) that’s stored in Avenue X yard for a few trips or weekends on the (Q) 

Being someone who uses the (F) I don’t think it’s much of an issue as of right now that service isn’t restored back to normal. The (M) does also provide Queens Blvd/6th Ave service for anyone who doesn’t mind spending a few extra minutes on the local. Subway ridership still continues to lag way behind bus ridership and will probably remain like that until all students return back to school which is rumored to happen in the fall time. So until then I suppose it doesn’t hurt to have some of Jamaica’s R160’s help out at CI Yard. 
 

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14 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

What is Avenue X yard???

The section of Coney Island yard Thats closest to Avenue X. 

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37 minutes ago, VIP said:

The section of Coney Island yard Thats closest to Avenue X. 

So Coney Island yard...

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On 4/3/2021 at 5:03 PM, Lawrence St said:

It was low before yes, but it has grown considerably that a platform / car extension shouldn't be to hard to do. 

Perhaps returning the franklin shuttle to 10 cars and booting the (B) off Brighton and having the (Q) be the sole express could fix the loading and interlining problems that line has. Sure, Brighton Local riders lose direct access to Manhattan but at least the loads will balance themselves out on the (Q) .

Or, they could tie in Franklin Shuttle to Crosstown, have the (Q) run from Coney Island to 21st St, then connecting it with the (F) at 63rd St to Whitehall St.

The original plan for the Crosstown Line way back was to have it tie in with the Franklin Ave Line in the south and the Astoria Line in the north.  Would've honestly made more sense than the current routing, if you ask me.  But it was proposed as an el instead of a tunnel, and at a time when Mayor Hylan was trying to tighten the screws against the BMT, so that's why we're stuck with the (G) we have today.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, VIP said:

They need to start using the spare R160’s from the (F) that’s stored in Avenue X yard for a few trips or weekends on the (Q) 

I've been suggesting this forever, but now that the (F) is coming back online in May, it is nothing but a pipe dream (maybe 9923-9942 will be transferred soon, because for MONTHS, those cars have been running only with each other, as if they are just WAITING to be transferred). And HAD they released the spare R160s from Avenue X Yard (about 15 trains or so), they just would have ran those on the (N) too. In fact, it happened some time near Christmas Eve, when about 80 R160s had to be loaned to the (N) because the R46s were just dropping like flies. And a bunch of R68As had to run too. I think that day, only about 8 R46s were in service on the (N) / (W) and everything else was 8 R68s and 17 R160s. 

Edited by darkstar8983

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On 4/4/2021 at 8:59 AM, CenSin said:

Riding it this weekend, it seems most of the (N) are NTTs once again. I’ve seen a few R46s, but I’ve boarded trains at random times and it’s been a consecutive string of NTTs.

How many R160s would you have said ran on the (N) (if it was more than nine, then there was a loan from Jamaica / Avenue X Yards). And to answer the consecutive strings comment, it must have been luck of the draw, because typically, the 160s are pretty spread out to make sure there isn't much of the consecutive string of NTT trains, which then makes it impossible to keep them running after service dwindles down, forcing the R46s to keep running overnight and the R160s getting pulled overnight. 

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I remember hearing that on lines that use multiple car classes, they *try* to keep each car class in bunches so in the event that one broke down, it would be easier to hook up the two trains due to having the same couplers or something like that.

 

 

I read this YEARS ago on another forum, so I might have gotten a detail or two wrong. But I do remember reading something like that.

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7 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

So Coney Island yard...

I t ' s n o t t e c h n i c a l l y a w h o l e c o n e y I s l a n d y a r d 

 

It's just a storage yard for the (F) and other work trains that sits there in that yard.

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On 4/4/2021 at 8:59 AM, CenSin said:

Riding it this weekend, it seems most of the (N) are NTTs once again. I’ve seen a few R46s, but I’ve boarded trains at random times and it’s been a consecutive string of NTTs.

(N) trains pretty much dominates the R160s on CIY especially (W) trains on weekdays.

 

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Posted (edited)

Speaking of multiple car classes, I wonder how the (J) line was back when it was mainly R32s, R42s, R143s and R160s. I remember the (C) being 1/2 R32s and R160s at that time. 

Edited by Calvin

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8 hours ago, Calvin said:

Speaking of multiple car classes, I wonder how the (J) line was back when it was mainly R32s, R42s, R143s and R160s. I remember the (C) being 1/2 R32s and R160s at that time. 

I like the (J) and (Z) running with 2 SMEE's and 2 NTTs, Back then riding a R160 (C) was a awesome experience for me. 

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Are Fuji door motors supposed to make some sort of creaking/squealing sound? If not (and I really don't expect them to), 8833 needs to be checked.

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Some of the Alston 160s have a door motor squeaking sound as well - dunno if its related. Its something I’ve occasionally heard in the last 4-ish years

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