SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[Calvin]

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2021/06/24/mta-cash-at-subway-booths-omny-fare-system-riders-alliance/?amp&fbclid=IwAR1etFWcL7IOaPjfT5RdPNNzYU0l-1IvTjDrVKPO-u85q1gVcJQdh9I4gFw

So, it seems plans have change to have cash payment as a thing on transit

[T to Dyre Avenue]

17 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

Curious: would there be a benefit to scheduled short-turns in the rush hour on some trunk lines?

Examples:

 in the rush hour. Instead of skip stop service...the  would be all stops to Broadway Junction, express to Marcy Avenue (stopping at Myrtle-Broadway) in the peak direction. The  would be Broadway Junction to Broad Street only, all stops. (There could also be two put-ins from 111 Street on the .

 (resurrecting the  and an old service pattern... local to 96th, express 96 to 157 (northbound) and 145 to 96 (southbound) (both peak direction), running the full distance, and the  running to and from Dyckman only.

I get the feeling that the merging delays at 103 and 157/145 would eat into any potential time saved by running the  express between 145 and 96. Northbound 's would have it even worse with getting stuck behind 's going out of service at Dyckman. And there's no room there to build a pocket track due to the station's location at the foot of Fort George Hill. And the five skipped stations (137 to 103) have high ridership, so you'd end up with overcrowded  trains by the time you get to 96. Likely delayed from people pushing their way on too, because unless combined  service is significantly increased over the current all-local  service, the frequency of  trains between 137 and 103 will be much less than the current  is. 

At least the  would have a pocket track to turn back at Broadway Junction, while the  operates through. But I have to wonder if an all-stop  after between Broadway Jct and Parsons-Archer wouldn't add a significant amount of time to the 's running time. And the new  and  would likely have to run more frequently than current ones do, which could be a problem due to the limitations of the flat-junction with the  at Myrtle, the  peak express merging back in with the  at Marcy, and the sharp curves on both sides of the Willy B . 

[Lawrence St]

For those of you wondering why the isnt skipping 149th St, its because they built a walkway over the middle track for whatever reason.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

18 hours ago, Calvin said:

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2021/06/24/mta-cash-at-subway-booths-omny-fare-system-riders-alliance/?amp&fbclid=IwAR1etFWcL7IOaPjfT5RdPNNzYU0l-1IvTjDrVKPO-u85q1gVcJQdh9I4gFw

So, it seems plans have change to have cash payment as a thing on transit

Yeah because they got heat from advocacy groups, elected officials and the riding public. Good... They need to start thinking more about the riding public and less about their pockets.

[R10 2952]

10 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

For those of you wondering why the isnt skipping 149th St, its because they built a walkway over the middle track for whatever reason.

It's not permanent though, is it?

[Around the Horn]

57 minutes ago, R10 2952 said:

It's not permanent though, is it?

No it's just temporary for the elevator works. I suspect that they'll have to move staircases to fit them in, so the walkway allows them to close one side of a particular entrance at a time at a time.

[Lawrence St]

This is a tough question;

What is the longest non-revenue track in the subway system right now (excluding Yards)?

[trainfan22]

If you're planning to take the subway in Brooklyn today.... don't! Drive, take Uber/Lyft or the bus. has an 24 minute headway, N/B trains are running on 18 minute headway, is replaced by an shuttle bus for a portion of its route, etc. Its a mess out here.

[Wallyhorse]

On 6/24/2021 at 5:15 PM, Theli11 said:

You're still running half capacity on all of the  stations and every station past Dyckman/Junction on the . It's the same issue. For Example, if a rider needed to get from Chauncey St to Norwood they'd have to take the  to transfer at Broadway Junction [This applies to any local stop along the line]. On Broadway-7th Av if a rider needed to get to 116th St from 207th (or any stop north of Dyckman), They'd have to take the to the .  It's the same issue but just looks different. 

Not only that, 116 is a MAJOR stop on the  with Columbia University as are 110 and 125, though those stations main riders go in the reverse direction of peak.   This has been why I have the SAS in Phase 2 go all the way across 125 to Broadway-12th Avenue to in addition to Columbia and the  connect to a likely new Metro-North station there.   

[Wallyhorse]

On 6/25/2021 at 9:50 AM, T to Dyre Avenue said:

At least the  would have a pocket track to turn back at Broadway Junction, while the  operates through. But I have to wonder if an all-stop  after between Broadway Jct and Parsons-Archer wouldn't add a significant amount of time to the 's running time. And the new  and  would likely have to run more frequently than current ones do, which could be a problem due to the limitations of the flat-junction with the  at Myrtle, the  peak express merging back in with the  at Marcy, and the sharp curves on both sides of the Willy B . 

For this to better work, I'd be considering rebuilding Atlantic Avenue on the to at least four tracks (most of the infrastructure there was NOT torn down other than mainly the part that curved off to the Snediker Avenue platform, so this could be done), setting up where either this incarnation of a  train terminates there OR the is shortened to/from Atlantic Avenue to better serve the much more heavily ridden part of the line past Atlantic with this version of the  replacing it to Canarsie. This would be a maximum of 8 TPH and would for now supplement the in Brooklyn while the  is mostly shortened to Chambers save for 4 TPH that either would continue to Broad Street OR run with the to South Brooklyn on 4th Avenue, terminating at 9th Avenue on the  so the handful of trains that did that did not interfere with the .  This version of the  would be a 24/7 line and would eliminate the need for the shuttle in the overnights as except for Whitehall Street, this  would cover ALL of those stops. 

[Wallyhorse]

I meant save for 4TPH during PEAK hourse on the . 

[Theli11]

9 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

Not only that, 116 is a MAJOR stop on the  with Columbia University as are 110 and 125, though those stations main riders go in the reverse direction of peak.   This has been why I have the SAS in Phase 2 go all the way across 125 to Broadway-12th Avenue to in addition to Columbia and the  connect to a likely new Metro-North station there.   

like most of your plans there’s a fault..

The 125th St-Broadway intersection  (the fault in question) wouldn’t be able to sustain a tunnel going under or a train going through it and becoming elevated. It’s close to the river for one, and you’d probably have to build it extremely deep. That transfer would have to be carefully constructed if it was even possible (since the elevated station is pretty far off the ground). At the end of the day, the  has the  at 168th and the at 96 St. 125th St (Equidistant from both stations is 4 stops apart which isn’t that bad  if you need 125th St crosstown you can also use Bx15 or M125 buses. 

I don’t even know where the Metro North fits into this on.. 

 

[Wallyhorse]

7 hours ago, Theli11 said:

like most of your plans there’s a fault..

The 125th St-Broadway intersection  (the fault in question) wouldn’t be able to sustain a tunnel going under or a train going through it and becoming elevated. It’s close to the river for one, and you’d probably have to build it extremely deep. That transfer would have to be carefully constructed if it was even possible (since the elevated station is pretty far off the ground). At the end of the day, the  has the  at 168th and the at 96 St. 125th St (Equidistant from both stations is 4 stops apart which isn’t that bad  if you need 125th St crosstown you can also use Bx15 or M125 buses. 

I don’t even know where the Metro North fits into this on.. 

 

The SAS station I would do at 125th/Broadway-12th Avenue would be underground.  The idea of such a crosstown is it would have stops at Lenox Avenue (transfer to ) and St. Nicholas Avenue (transfer to ) before reaching Broadway and the aforementioned transfer to the .  There would also if possible as I would do it be a connection between the SAS and the 8th Avenue Line at St. Nicholas/125 that would allow the and  to when necessary be re-routed via the SAS and then 63rd Street, as well as allow for SAS specials to/from Yankee Stadium and possibly down the road a Concourse line via SAS.  

As for Metro-North, it's been widely expected for a while once they bring Metro-North into Penn Station, part of that would include a new Metro-North Station along the way at 125th Street and 12th Avenue.   That, and the expansion of Columbia University are also why I would extend Phase 2 of the SAS all the way across 125.  

[Theli11]

1 hour ago, Wallyhorse said:

The SAS station I would do at 125th/Broadway-12th Avenue would be underground.  The idea of such a crosstown is it would have stops at Lenox Avenue (transfer to ) and St. Nicholas Avenue (transfer to ) before reaching Broadway and the aforementioned transfer to the .  There would also if possible as I would do it be a connection between the SAS and the 8th Avenue Line at St. Nicholas/125 that would allow the and  to when necessary be re-routed via the SAS and then 63rd Street, as well as allow for SAS specials to/from Yankee Stadium and possibly down the road a Concourse line via SAS.  

As for Metro-North, it's been widely expected for a while once they bring Metro-North into Penn Station, part of that would include a new Metro-North Station along the way at 125th Street and 12th Avenue.   That, and the expansion of Columbia University are also why I would extend Phase 2 of the SAS all the way across 125.  

How would you extend it across 125th St?

[Vulturious]

2 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

The SAS station I would do at 125th/Broadway-12th Avenue would be underground.  The idea of such a crosstown is it would have stops at Lenox Avenue (transfer to ) and St. Nicholas Avenue (transfer to ) before reaching Broadway and the aforementioned transfer to the .  There would also if possible as I would do it be a connection between the SAS and the 8th Avenue Line at St. Nicholas/125 that would allow the and  to when necessary be re-routed via the SAS and then 63rd Street, as well as allow for SAS specials to/from Yankee Stadium and possibly down the road a Concourse line via SAS.  

As for Metro-North, it's been widely expected for a while once they bring Metro-North into Penn Station, part of that would include a new Metro-North Station along the way at 125th Street and 12th Avenue.   That, and the expansion of Columbia University are also why I would extend Phase 2 of the SAS all the way across 125.  

I thought I was the only one that wanted a connection between SAS and CPW line. I'm assuming you want the connection to happen south of the 135 St Layup tracks? It would be the best place to happen for such connection as that allows for a connection to local and express tracks along CPW. I had the idea of having lower level platform be four tracks with the outer two tracks connection onto CPW while the inner two would continue straight towards Broadway-125 St or it could be vice versa, however you guys want it to be. I also had an idea of having 2 separate x-switches as there would be merge tracks, it would be in between the two x-switches to allow for better short-turns. Although, I never really included having Broadway-125 St as a station.

[Wallyhorse]

2 hours ago, Vulturious said:

I thought I was the only one that wanted a connection between SAS and CPW line. I'm assuming you want the connection to happen south of the 135 St Layup tracks? It would be the best place to happen for such connection as that allows for a connection to local and express tracks along CPW. I had the idea of having lower level platform be four tracks with the outer two tracks connection onto CPW while the inner two would continue straight towards Broadway-125 St or it could be vice versa, however you guys want it to be. I also had an idea of having 2 separate x-switches as there would be merge tracks, it would be in between the two x-switches to allow for better short-turns. Although, I never really included having Broadway-125 St as a station.

That would be EXACTLY how I would do it:

Use the additional tracks going into 135 to connect an SAS at St. Nicholas/125 to the 8th Avenue line.  This would create far greater operational flexibility where if something happened on CPW for example that prevented services between 59 and 125 to operate, the  and  could be re-routed to where they run on the SAS to 63rd, then run from there via 6th Avenue, with the on its regular route from there and the  going on 6th Avenue to West 4th, then returning to its normal line after there.   Also the opportunity to have Yankee Stadium specials on the SAS as well as potentially for example a that continues via 125 and 8th Avenue to the Concourse Line, further helping relieve the  with some people changing at 161 for example.  

 

3 hours ago, Theli11 said:

How would you extend it across 125th St?

It is already supposed to actually go to around 5th/Lenox Avenue on 125 for storage IIRC.  It would just continue across 125 in this case to Broadway/12th Avenue.  

[Theli11]

21 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

Use the additional tracks going into 135 to connect an SAS at St. Nicholas/125 to the 8th Avenue line.  This would create far greater operational flexibility where if something happened on CPW for example that prevented services between 59 and 125 to operate, the  and  could be re-routed to where they run on the SAS to 63rd, then run from there via 6th Avenue, with the on its regular route from there and the  going on 6th Avenue to West 4th, then returning to its normal line after there.   Also the opportunity to have Yankee Stadium specials on the SAS as well as potentially for example a that continues via 125 and 8th Avenue to the Concourse Line, further helping relieve the  with some people changing at 161 for example.  

The , ,    trains already serve as alternatives for the and . Lets say CPW is down, and the SAS is running to St. Nicholas without the connection to CPW, you'd have  trains covering service from 207 to Chambers St, service covering the Bronx (where you can transfer to the at 149th St, or  at Atlantic Av,   for Broadway Service (which is right next to 6th Avenue) at Union Square, 59th or 125th - Lexington. There's option without you needing to connect service to Central Park West. That's extra, unneeded work for little reward. 

1 hour ago, Wallyhorse said:

It is already supposed to actually go to around 5th/Lenox Avenue on 125 for storage IIRC.  It would just continue across 125 in this case to Broadway/12th Avenue.  

You're making it seem more simple then it is. 5th/Lenox won't been an issue all the way up to St. Nicholas won't be an issue either, but once you get to Amsterdam, you're constructing under a fault that'll make the station super expensive. If I was the MTA I wouldn't even bother. 

[Vulturious]

9 minutes ago, Theli11 said:

The , ,    trains already serve as alternatives for the and . Lets say CPW is down, and the SAS is running to St. Nicholas without the connection to CPW, you'd have  trains covering service from 207 to Chambers St, service covering the Bronx (where you can transfer to the at 149th St, or  at Atlantic Av,   for Broadway Service (which is right next to 6th Avenue) at Union Square, 59th or 125th - Lexington. There's option without you needing to connect service to Central Park West. That's extra, unneeded work for little reward. 

Well my idea would just be used as a connection. I never said anything about having service running from SAS onto CPW, but I get where you're going with this.

[R32 3838]

People always tend to say cut the never ride it on a daily basis and don't understand why it works. The whole point of the skip stop is to entice people from the who are going to lower Manhattan to take the Jamaica Line instead. And there were times where I got to Manhattan a lot faster than the during the AM rush (7:30am-8:30am)

Cutting the would be pointless because you are adding more time to the during those peak hours.

[Theli11]

On 6/26/2021 at 7:19 PM, Wallyhorse said:

On 6/25/2021 at 9:50 AM, T to Dyre Avenue said:

At least the  would have a pocket track to turn back at Broadway Junction, while the  operates through. But I have to wonder if an all-stop  after between Broadway Jct and Parsons-Archer wouldn't add a significant amount of time to the 's running time. And the new  and  would likely have to run more frequently than current ones do, which could be a problem due to the limitations of the flat-junction with the  at Myrtle, the  peak express merging back in with the  at Marcy, and the sharp curves on both sides of the Willy B . 

On 6/24/2021 at 3:31 PM, aemoreira81 said:

 in the rush hour. Instead of skip stop service...the  would be all stops to Broadway Junction, express to Marcy Avenue (stopping at Myrtle-Broadway) in the peak direction. The  would be Broadway Junction to Broad Street only, all stops. (There could also be two put-ins from 111 Street on the .

 

For this to better work, I'd be considering rebuilding Atlantic Avenue on the to at least four tracks (most of the infrastructure there was NOT torn down other than mainly the part that curved off to the Snediker Avenue platform, so this could be done), setting up where either this incarnation of a  train terminates there OR the is shortened to/from Atlantic Avenue to better serve the much more heavily ridden part of the line past Atlantic with this version of the  replacing it to Canarsie. This would be a maximum of 8 TPH and would for now supplement the in Brooklyn while the  is mostly shortened to Chambers save for 4 TPH that either would continue to Broad Street OR run with the to South Brooklyn on 4th Avenue, terminating at 9th Avenue on the  so the handful of trains that did that did not interfere with the .  This version of the  would be a 24/7 line and would eliminate the need for the shuttle in the overnights as except for Whitehall Street, this  would cover ALL of those stops. 

1. If you're running a train every 7-8 minutes you don't need a full terminal, 
2. The  will be running air 
3. Leave the alone, as someone who regularly takes the its only problem is that once the train is screwed.. it's screwed. You either have to take the train or the M14 bus to wherever you need.  The  wouldn't be helping in terms of that and Canarsie will just be seeing the same service on a different train. The  is frequent, it runs when it needs to, no need for the there.
4. I forget why 9th Avenue is a popular terminal.. but if you really wanted more service to 95th St, you'd probably cut the back and keep the shuttle/ local (overnight)
5. You're not making anything work better either, the problem is  trains would all be at max capacity (Looks like you'd have to cut service, and any service (The service that Bay Ridge Riders preference) that's left would be extremely packed.

There's too much merging for this to work, increasing service means cutting services and specifically service East of Broadway Junction.. The will be merging with the  and that'll only make  trains worse... 

 

 

 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

16 hours ago, Theli11 said:

like most of your plans there’s a fault..

The 125th St-Broadway intersection  (the fault in question) wouldn’t be able to sustain a tunnel going under or a train going through it and becoming elevated. It’s close to the river for one, and you’d probably have to build it extremely deep. That transfer would have to be carefully constructed if it was even possible (since the elevated station is pretty far off the ground). At the end of the day, the  has the  at 168th and the at 96 St. 125th St (Equidistant from both stations is 4 stops apart which isn’t that bad  if you need 125th St crosstown you can also use Bx15 or M125 buses. 

I don’t even know where the Metro North fits into this on.. 

 

This time, it’s a literal fault!

On 6/26/2021 at 7:19 PM, Wallyhorse said:

For this to better work, I'd be considering rebuilding Atlantic Avenue on the to at least four tracks (most of the infrastructure there was NOT torn down other than mainly the part that curved off to the Snediker Avenue platform, so this could be done), setting up where either this incarnation of a  train terminates there OR the is shortened to/from Atlantic Avenue to better serve the much more heavily ridden part of the line past Atlantic with this version of the  replacing it to Canarsie. This would be a maximum of 8 TPH and would for now supplement the in Brooklyn while the  is mostly shortened to Chambers save for 4 TPH that either would continue to Broad Street OR run with the to South Brooklyn on 4th Avenue, terminating at 9th Avenue on the  so the handful of trains that did that did not interfere with the .  This version of the  would be a 24/7 line and would eliminate the need for the shuttle in the overnights as except for Whitehall Street, this  would cover ALL of those stops. 

No. It’s completely unnecessary to terminate the  at Atlantic. Even worse to extend it to Canarsie in place of the . And there is really no reason to terminate any  or  at 9th Avenue, a station which does not warrant two services and will cause nothing but merging headaches for the ,  and  trains. 

8 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

The SAS station I would do at 125th/Broadway-12th Avenue would be underground.  The idea of such a crosstown is it would have stops at Lenox Avenue (transfer to ) and St. Nicholas Avenue (transfer to ) before reaching Broadway and the aforementioned transfer to the .  There would also if possible as I would do it be a connection between the SAS and the 8th Avenue Line at St. Nicholas/125 that would allow the and  to when necessary be re-routed via the SAS and then 63rd Street, as well as allow for SAS specials to/from Yankee Stadium and possibly down the road a Concourse line via SAS.  

As for Metro-North, it's been widely expected for a while once they bring Metro-North into Penn Station, part of that would include a new Metro-North Station along the way at 125th Street and 12th Avenue.  That, and the expansion of Columbia University are also why I would extend Phase 2 of the SAS all the way across 125.  

There seem to be plenty of good, practical reasons not to, if this article is to be believed - which I do. Uber-expensive Ivy League school with a billion dollar endowment be damned.

https://www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_index/2021/05/second-avenue-subway-phase-2-the-case-for-a-crosstown-extension-on-125th-street/

 

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by T to Dyre Avenue

[paulrivera]

On 6/25/2021 at 2:08 PM, Lawrence St said:

For those of you wondering why the isnt skipping 149th St, its because they built a walkway over the middle track for whatever reason.

Oh, that explains the trains going down the West Side. Gotta make room for the  trains that are now unable to bypass 138th Street.

[darkstar8983]

32 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

Oh, that explains the trains going down the West Side. Gotta make room for the  trains that are now unable to bypass 138th Street.

the main issue is the 138 St merge and the potential for delays on the  and . The reason the  skips 138 St in the peak direction rush hour is to prevent  trains from stacking up behind a train that may be late in merging. To keep things moving during this work, most Utica Av trips will be rerouted via 7 Av and two Bowling Green trips out of Eastchester-Dyre Av will be ending at Rector St, then reversing to Bowling Green uptown via the South Ferry loop 

[Mtatransit]

On 6/22/2021 at 8:55 PM, R32 3838 said:

 

I really hate taking the on weekends. it makes me miss living in Jamaica More and more each day

That's the  for you every single day...

If someone tells me they are waiting for the  I automatically assume they are going to be late

3 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

People always tend to say cut the never ride it on a daily basis and don't understand why it works. The whole point of the skip stop is to entice people from the who are going to lower Manhattan to take the Jamaica Line instead. And there were times where I got to Manhattan a lot faster than the during the AM rush (7:30am-8:30am)

Cutting the would be pointless because you are adding more time to the during those peak hours.

It would however save people who are at stations currently skipped by either  or  time waiting for the train (every 10 minutes to every 8 minutes). Most ridership on the  /  going to Lower Manhattan don't come from Jamaica, they come from Williamsburg.

People on the Jamaica Line east of Broadway Junction, usually gets off at Broadway Jct for the  or the  . 

31 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

the main issue is the 138 St merge and the potential for delays on the  and . The reason the  skips 138 St in the peak direction rush hour is to prevent  trains from stacking up behind a train that may be late in merging. To keep things moving during this work, most Utica Av trips will be rerouted via 7 Av and two Bowling Green trips out of Eastchester-Dyre Av will be ending at Rector St, then reversing to Bowling Green uptown via the South Ferry loop 

Any reason they just can't have peak hour  skip 138th on the local track, so the hold up wouldn't be as bad?

[VIP]

Random thought: the R62a’s on the  are ABSOLUTELY FILTHY ! (on the exteriors). Bonnets are blackened and the pantograph gates don’t fall far behind. It’s very noticeable!