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Honestly, QBL already has over 1,000 R160s so they do not need no base order for any fleet right now.  Pitkin should receive the Base Order for the R211s because Fulton Street still has more than half of the R46 fleet, and though they are the best performing ones, they still need to be replaced as well, or displaced in this case. Though the R179s are there to back up the R46s, the R32s are on their deathbed right now and are not in up top shape to run service completely, or mostly underground on the (A) and (C). Coney Island can receive these R46s from Pitkin, and retire the worst performing 46s, and continue from there. They can always have Jamaica 160s for swings on the (N)(Q) and (W). Those R46s can displace all the R68s/R68As from the (B) and (G) and save those 350+ cars for the (N)(Q) and (W) in order to back up the R46s, and R160s to limit service on them too, by putting them on a route that is not too lengthy, and that is not a 24/7 one as well. 

On 10/3/2021 at 7:47 AM, Lawrence St said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, they should have waited to activate/install CBTC on Queens Blvd, especially when the pandemic was happening and ridership was low.

They wasted all this time to swap cars around just to swap them back when the R211's come in. It just isn't common sense.

This is why I agree with you because it's true, the MTA just wasted their damn time and whoever is behind subway operations, they don't have common sense at all.w

On 10/1/2021 at 7:26 PM, darkstar8983 said:

Yes, 1/3 of the (F) fleet was R46s and typically ran hours only, as the Kings Highway short-turns or were pulled out of service after the PM rush. The (R) otherwise had the entire R46 fleet to itself, and weekends, even used some of the (E) and (F)‘s R160s, which minimized use of the R46s even further. Now at Coney Island this is not possible. Pitkin’s R46s also have it slightly better because the weekend (A) service is much more limited and the R179s are used as much as (N) uses its R160s and R68s in place of the R46s

It is not possible now but it is possible, in the coming years, if the base order goes to Pitkin, we can go back to square one.

All NYCT base order R211As go to Pitkin for (A)(C) and possibly (S) service. 

The 20 R211Ts could also possibly see service at Pitkin, or Jamaica.

Send the displaced  R46s to Coney Island for (B) and (G) service.

Have the R68/As run mainly on the (N)(Q) and (W) lines to retire the R46s, or **most** of them.

If there are any extras, have swing R160s additionally make up (N)(Q) and (W) service.

My take, carry on.

 

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43 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Why is that? All of (MTA) priorities are backwards right now.

The (A) can continue using the R46's until the option order comes in, send the first base order to Queens Blvd to bump out the R160's back to CI.

For what? QBL doesn't need no base order of any fleet right now.

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3 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Why is that? All of (MTA) priorities are backwards right now.

The (A) can continue using the R46's until the option order comes in, send the first base order to Queens Blvd to bump out the R160's back to CI.

This makes the most sense because this way, the R211s start out on a line that we know already is CBTC-active. And it also takes care of just outright retiring the trouble-prone CI R46s. Likely, as the R211 base order comes in, the lower numbered R160s will be paired up and swapped back to Coney Island and 9853-9942 will be transferred back to Jamaica, so this way, Jamaica only has two car classes - R211 and R160 Alstom propulsion, and CI has the Siemens + Alstom R160s and R68s. In my opinion, each yard should know how to maintain more than one car class (if its one of those large yards like Jamaica, Pitkin/207 St, Coney Island)

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38 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

This makes the most sense because this way, the R211s start out on a line that we know already is CBTC-active. And it also takes care of just outright retiring the trouble-prone CI R46s. Likely, as the R211 base order comes in, the lower numbered R160s will be paired up and swapped back to Coney Island and 9853-9942 will be transferred back to Jamaica, so this way, Jamaica only has two car classes - R211 and R160 Alstom propulsion, and CI has the Siemens + Alstom R160s and R68s. In my opinion, each yard should know how to maintain more than one car class (if its one of those large yards like Jamaica, Pitkin/207 St, Coney Island)

Literally what I said with the R179s, and R211s at Pitkin... and besides 8th Avenue is already prepared for CBTC starting from 59th Street..

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22 hours ago, shiznit1987 said:

I think when the TA decides to send everything express in a certain direction on Queens Blvd they should compensate by at least sending either the (E) or (F) or both local in the other direction to help out the (R). It's a real pain to wait for a every 12-15 minute (R) train to go backwards then wait for something going the way you're actually trying to go. At least with a second local or all three being local your wait times get reduced. 

Had I missed the (R) heading towards forest hills this past Saturday, I would have waited 30+ Mins for the next one. I hate these types of GO's. Makes me miss living in Jamaica.

 

What pissed me off is they did this GO on top of sending (R) Trains via 63rd st Forest hills bound, So If you needed stations between 36th st and Roosevelt, You had to take the (F) to 21st Queens bridge and transfer over, thus causing more confusion with average riders esp. the ones in Jackson heights who the majority don't speak English.  Ops Planning was on some serious drugs when they planned this.

6 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Why is that? All of (MTA) priorities are backwards right now.

The (A) can continue using the R46's until the option order comes in, send the first base order to Queens Blvd to bump out the R160's back to CI.

 

The R160's CBTC has to be compatible with upcoming CBTC lines. Queens Blvd is a Trunk line of 4 subway routes, 2 of them run on 6th ave, one runs on 8th ave and one runs on Broadway. 2 of those trunk lines are getting CBTC. 

The Base order is for pitkin to PREPARE for 8th ave CBTC along with installing CBTC kits on the R179's as well. By the time the base order is complete, (MTA) expects to have CBTC on 8th ave up and running. I think CI will get some R211's but not brand new. If the Open Gangway is successful then Pitkin could get those newer R211T's for the (A) and push out about 300 R211A's to CI for the (Q) which I think would happen. This wouldn't be a new concept because the (1) was the 1st to get the R62A's in 1984 then in 1986-87 their first batch went to westchester while they got the 2200's-2400's.

 

 

I could see them doing this which could make sense (option order I and halfway with II)

In terms of CI

Jamaica Gets a batch of R211's to push out all 260 Siemens R160's back to CI, Jamaica gets 9853-9942 in return.

Pitkin gets 300 newer R211T's to push out 300 R211A's to CI (4201-4499)

This would leave CI with only the Siemens R160's and 300 R211A's totaling up to 560 tech trains like before minus 20

Jamaica gets more R211T's to push out more R160's to TBD (It could be Coney Island)

 

6 hours ago, Jacob said:

the brown (brownM) isn't usually that useful and did cause some congestion when it's going to South Brooklyn. Unless Broad Street was a 2 Island 3 way track platform just like whitehall maybe it wouldn't caused much congestion. 4th Ave/ West End technically doesn't need the (brownM) It still runs good (eh (R) train gaps. a). They could've kept it in service if the MTA didn't made the (V) terminate at 2nd Ave and made it go Culver Express most of the time to terminate at Church Ave. (So Culver can be more reliable with both Local and Full Time Express Services). Bringing the (brownM) to Brooklyn two times doesn't make sense to me since you can easily go to Canal and take (N)(Q) or (R)(W) services.

Back then It was useless, But those neighborhoods grew so 4th ave needs another local. Transit fans still have 2010 living rent free in their heads, I just don't get it. That was 11 years ago, A lot has changed since 2010.

Edited by R32 3838
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6 hours ago, Jacob said:

the brown (brownM) isn't usually that useful and did cause some congestion when it's going to South Brooklyn. Unless Broad Street was a 2 Island 3 way track platform just like whitehall maybe it wouldn't caused much congestion. 4th Ave/ West End technically doesn't need the (brownM) It still runs good (eh (R) train gaps. a). They could've kept it in service if the MTA didn't made the (V) terminate at 2nd Ave and made it go Culver Express most of the time to terminate at Church Ave. (So Culver can be more reliable with both Local and Full Time Express Services). Bringing the (brownM) to Brooklyn two times doesn't make sense to me since you can easily go to Canal and take (N)(Q) or (R)(W) services.

That's true. Back then, the only time, the (brownM) is a life saver is not having to wait for an (D) or (R) that's over 10+ minutes from the one that just left the station. 

Edited by Calvin
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6 hours ago, R68ACTrain said:

Honestly, QBL already has over 1,000 R160s so they do not need no base order for any fleet right now.  Pitkin should receive the Base Order for the R211s because Fulton Street still has more than half of the R46 fleet, and though they are the best performing ones, they still need to be replaced as well, or displaced in this case. Though the R179s are there to back up the R46s, the R32s are on their deathbed right now and are not in up top shape to run service completely, or mostly underground on the (A) and (C). Coney Island can receive these R46s from Pitkin, and retire the worst performing 46s, and continue from there. They can always have Jamaica 160s for swings on the (N)(Q) and (W). Those R46s can displace all the R68s/R68As from the (B) and (G) and save those 350+ cars for the (N)(Q) and (W) in order to back up the R46s, and R160s to limit service on them too, by putting them on a route that is not too lengthy, and that is not a 24/7 one as well. 

This is why I agree with you because it's true, the MTA just wasted their damn time and whoever is behind subway operations, they don't have common sense at all.w

It is not possible now but it is possible, in the coming years, if the base order goes to Pitkin, we can go back to square one.

All NYCT base order R211As go to Pitkin for (A)(C) and possibly (S) service. 

The 20 R211Ts could also possibly see service at Pitkin, or Jamaica.

Send the displaced  R46s to Coney Island for (B) and (G) service.

Have the R68/As run mainly on the (N)(Q) and (W) lines to retire the R46s, or **most** of them.

If there are any extras, have swing R160s additionally make up (N)(Q) and (W) service.

My take, carry on.

 

 

 

I just explained why they did the full swap with making Jamaica all R160's, The Base order is going to pitkin, By the time that's done it'll be 2025, Then you have the option order which would kill off the rest of the R46's.

 

You have to remember the (C) is going 100% full length so this would cause some of pitkin's R46's to stay a bit longer. Once option order I starts trucking in, Those R46's are gone.

By the time Jamaica gets it's batch, It'll be 2026 a full 5-6 years after the swap was completed. CBTC is semi active on queens blvd and fully active on 53rd st. Jamaica couldn't keep the R46's just in case of re routes and etc. Plus there's no signals between 36th st and Roosevelt on the express tracks as well as 53rd st. This is why Jamaica had no choice being 100% r160's. None of you are looking at that. If an (R) has to go express or via 53rd/6th ave because an emergency, The road would be screwed because the r46's have no CBTC. It's all about flexibility and making sure everything is seamless (It's not lmao) .

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8 hours ago, Jacob said:

the brown (brownM) isn't usually that useful and did cause some congestion when it's going to South Brooklyn. Unless Broad Street was a 2 Island 3 way track platform just like whitehall maybe it wouldn't caused much congestion. 4th Ave/ West End technically doesn't need the (brownM) It still runs good (eh (R) train gaps. a). They could've kept it in service if the MTA didn't made the (V) terminate at 2nd Ave and made it go Culver Express most of the time to terminate at Church Ave. (So Culver can be more reliable with both Local and Full Time Express Services). Bringing the (brownM) to Brooklyn two times doesn't make sense to me since you can easily go to Canal and take (N)(Q) or (R)(W) services.

makes sense but what about the R and F Train yards

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12 minutes ago, Jason Train said:

makes sense but what about the R and F Train yards

The (F) and (R) are based out of Jamaica Yard. Trains are stored in Coney Island for the (F) and (R) to use however. You would see rush hour put-ins from the Avenue X yard which people consider to be Coney Island (which it pretty much is) running along Culver for the (F) and the same for the (R). However, the (R) rush hour put-ins run along the (D) from the yard leads at Bay 50 St and run express along West End not in service deadheading to 36 St. Personally, I think those put-ins should be put into revenue service because the (D) already has a hit or miss service. Those deadheads to me just seems like a giant middle finger to everyone waiting along West End for a (D) train. Even then, they just sit around south of 9 Av waiting there for who knows how long on the express track.

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16 minutes ago, Vulturious said:

The (F) and (R) are based out of Jamaica Yard. Trains are stored in Coney Island for the (F) and (R) to use however. You would see rush hour put-ins from the Avenue X yard which people consider to be Coney Island (which it pretty much is) running along Culver for the (F) and the same for the (R). However, the (R) rush hour put-ins run along the (D) from the yard leads at Bay 50 St and run express along West End not in service deadheading to 36 St. Personally, I think those put-ins should be put into revenue service because the (D) already has a hit or miss service. Those deadheads to me just seems like a giant middle finger to everyone waiting along West End for a (D) train. Even then, they just sit around south of 9 Av waiting there for who knows how long on the express track.

oh thanks for the info

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16 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

 

 

I just explained why they did the full swap with making Jamaica all R160's, The Base order is going to pitkin, By the time that's done it'll be 2025, Then you have the option order which would kill off the rest of the R46's.

 

You have to remember the (C) is going 100% full length so this would cause some of pitkin's R46's to stay a bit longer. Once option order I starts trucking in, Those R46's are gone.

By the time Jamaica gets it's batch, It'll be 2026 a full 5-6 years after the swap was completed. CBTC is semi active on queens blvd and fully active on 53rd st. Jamaica couldn't keep the R46's just in case of re routes and etc. Plus there's no signals between 36th st and Roosevelt on the express tracks as well as 53rd st. This is why Jamaica had no choice being 100% r160's. None of you are looking at that. If an (R) has to go express or via 53rd/6th ave because an emergency, The road would be screwed because the r46's have no CBTC. It's all about flexibility and making sure everything is seamless (It's not lmao) .

... I was just saying my take on this subject but thanks.

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The R142s on the (2) and (5) , (4) with their R142As, while on-board, the announcement from Rosie Perez is no longer a hearing to "What's up, New York!". Her voice is removed and replaced with a voice that advises riders to wear a mask even if you're vaccinated (Fully Velina Mitchell). 

Edited by Calvin
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On 10/4/2021 at 5:41 PM, Vulturious said:

The (F) and (R) are based out of Jamaica Yard. Trains are stored in Coney Island for the (F) and (R) to use however. You would see rush hour put-ins from the Avenue X yard which people consider to be Coney Island (which it pretty much is) running along Culver for the (F) and the same for the (R). However, the (R) rush hour put-ins run along the (D) from the yard leads at Bay 50 St and run express along West End not in service deadheading to 36 St. Personally, I think those put-ins should be put into revenue service because the (D) already has a hit or miss service. Those deadheads to me just seems like a giant middle finger to everyone waiting along West End for a (D) train. Even then, they just sit around south of 9 Av waiting there for who knows how long on the express track.

The put-in on the (R) has one that happens around noon time, even the (F)  (2).  But yeah, it ruins the mood for (D) riders going to Manhattan hoping there was a train but having to wait longer than expected. 

Edited by Calvin
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Not to change the topic, but today I took the <7> from Manhattan to Flushing and didn’t realize how fast the express run is headed towards Queens. We passed literally FOUR (7) local trains, last one being passed right at the portal towards Main St. Even though the express run was fast, there were some areas where I think even another minute could the been saved.

- a few seconds each at the following points.

- on the downgrade towards 61 St-Woodside

- passing 74 St-Broadway

- on the curve past 103 St

- downgrade towards Mets Willets Point

- downgrade towards Main St

 

i wonder if the Manhattan express run is this fast too

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7 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Not to change the topic, but today I took the <7> from Manhattan to Flushing and didn’t realize how fast the express run is headed towards Queens. We passed literally FOUR (7) local trains, last one being passed right at the portal towards Main St. Even though the express run was fast, there were some areas where I think even another minute could the been saved.

- a few seconds each at the following points.

- on the downgrade towards 61 St-Woodside

- passing 74 St-Broadway

- on the curve past 103 St

- downgrade towards Mets Willets Point

- downgrade towards Main St

 

i wonder if the Manhattan express run is this fast too

From what I've heard from friends and family who use the <7> during the morning rush: yes. It's fast until it gets to 33rd St: it slows down to stop at Queensboro Plaza. However, at Wilets Point: it gets held for a little bit around the 9 AM hour due to trains resting back to the yard until the PM rush. 

Edited by Calvin
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7 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Not to change the topic, but today I took the <7> from Manhattan to Flushing and didn’t realize how fast the express run is headed towards Queens. We passed literally FOUR (7) local trains, last one being passed right at the portal towards Main St. Even though the express run was fast, there were some areas where I think even another minute could the been saved.

 

The (7) runs very frequently, so passing a lot of trains isn’t as big of a deal as other lines. It saves ~7 mins end to end 

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On 10/3/2021 at 1:29 PM, R32 3838 said:

 

 

 

 

Also with the R211's Open Gangway, The (E)(F) would be best suited for these cars since they have the Highest ridership in the B division.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(E) Should never have open gangways

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18 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Not to change the topic, but today I took the <7> from Manhattan to Flushing and didn’t realize how fast the express run is headed towards Queens. We passed literally FOUR (7) local trains, last one being passed right at the portal towards Main St. Even though the express run was fast, there were some areas where I think even another minute could the been saved.

- a few seconds each at the following points.

- on the downgrade towards 61 St-Woodside

- passing 74 St-Broadway

- on the curve past 103 St

- downgrade towards Mets Willets Point

- downgrade towards Main St

 

i wonder if the Manhattan express run is this fast too

The <7> has to be one of my favorite express lines due to how fast and reliable it tends to be especially in comparison to the (E) and (F). I honestly wish the third track on the (7) line continued past Queensboro Plaza to Manhattan and that would have really increased capacity and made the trip even faster. I wish <7> trains didn’t have to stop at Hunterpoint Ave and Vernon Blvd but at least those stops are very close to one another so it doesn’t add too much time to the run time. 

My biggest gripe with most B division lines minus the (G)(L)(J) and (Z) is how unreliable these lines can get due to length and the amount of merges that exist. 
Just the addition of the (M) along Queens Blvd for example delays the (E)(F) and (R) at some point because the (M) merges with all 3 of those lines. 
The (A)(B)(C)(D) trains always get delayed around Columbus Circle because those lines merge with each other. 
The (N)(R) and (W) get delayed in Midtown because of the merges 
We already know the Dekalb situation lol.

The merges do add route flexibility but it also does affect reliability which is something I hope the MTA tackles in the upcoming years. 

 

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On 10/6/2021 at 5:54 PM, darkstar8983 said:

Not to change the topic, but today I took the <7> from Manhattan to Flushing and didn’t realize how fast the express run is headed towards Queens. We passed literally FOUR (7) local trains, last one being passed right at the portal towards Main St. Even though the express run was fast, there were some areas where I think even another minute could the been saved.

- a few seconds each at the following points.

- on the downgrade towards 61 St-Woodside

- passing 74 St-Broadway

- on the curve past 103 St

- downgrade towards Mets Willets Point

- downgrade towards Main St

 

i wonder if the Manhattan express run is this fast too

Take a look on Seventh Ave and Lexington Avenue. Once a Bronx Bound (4) or (5) express leaves 42nd Street it goes to the curve without slowing down a lot causing a push with crowding can be a pain in the butt. And then its immediately hauls tremendous ass until reaching 59th. Sometimes SB Trains do run fast on Lexington Avenue Express. It just depends.

 

Seventh Avenue its literally fast as hell most of the times until something REALLY F'd up 7th Ave and Broadway.

Most of the IND routes are just kinda slow in my opinion. CPW can go fast but sometimes the merges just ruins it tbh.

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Comic-con this weekend is up and running this weekend. Yes, the (7) is going to/from Hudson Yards in both directions but with at least 8-10 min headways. 

Edited by Calvin
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4 hours ago, Vulturious said:

So the Lexington Av announcements for Grand Central have changed to the ones from the (7). I would expect 7 Av would also get this change real soon, too to where they say Times Square from the (7).

I didn't understand a single word in this sentence. The (4) now has announcements from the (7)?

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10 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I didn't understand a single word in this sentence. The (4) now has announcements from the (7)?

It supposedly uses Annie Bergen's "Grand Central-42nd St" I've yet to hear it in person

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6 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I didn't understand a single word in this sentence. The (4) now has announcements from the (7)?

Let me rephrase that, the Grand Central-42 St announcement is straight from the (7). It's using the voice of the Annie Bergen's voice when announcing "Grand Central-42 St."

So it would go something like this - "(Dianne Thompson) This is: (Annie Bergen) Grand Central-42 St." And the following would be the normal announcements for the transfers at that station.

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