SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[Kingsbridgeviewer382]

Saw the TOMC coming into 207 St yard after some testing along 8th Ave (I believe) Funny how R33 Main Lines #9016-9017 came solo while the other R33 Main Line cars came together and EVERY single car was signed up as the .

[AndrewJC]

Crazy ride on the train this morning...

 

Got on the at the junction thinking it would be a normal ride up to Penn Station. First, while waiting for the train, there was this dude in some daisy duke shorts, a tank top, and heels dancing in the platform. Snapped me a picture of it and got on the train. At Nostrand Av, I see the TOMC heading the other way. Thought I was seeing things at first, but you can't miss that silver and white paint scheme lol.

 

..Fast forward to High St, and we sit in the station, C/R said that there's a sick passenger at Chambers St. That pissed me off somewhat since I had a bus to catch. I double back to Jay St and find out everything is going over the , so i hop on the and take that to Penn Station.

 

I get off the train already pressed for time and get slammed with the Comic Con crowd who all get on the wrong M34 and they hold up the line even more. I make my bus with only minutes to spare

 

And it isn't even noon yet...

 

Just FYI - High Street and Clark Street are nearby. If I had a problem on an A train at High and I needed to get to 34th, I'd walk over to Clark for the 2/3. (Of course, I don't know if you have an unlimited.)

 

They could have run some extra service between Bedford Park (turn on the middle track in the station) and 161 (clean out, change ends on the middle track) from 0700-2100 to absorb some of that extra ridership from the .....those buses from Mosholu & Woodlawn were coming down completely full!

 

What about the crew shortage?

 

They never do that for some reason. Then again last time the line was shut down in the Bronx IIRC weekend headways were still 8 minutes. So effectively the D is running at 250% of MTA's loading guidelines in the Bronx, instead of 200% before the weekend cuts.

 

I spent a few minutes scratching my head before figuring out what I think you meant by those numbers.

 

The off-peak loading guideline allows for 125% (formerly 100%) of a seated load at the peak load point. First off, that's the loading guideline - 100% of it - not 125% of it! Second, I don't believe the D, under normal operations, typically carries as much as 125% of a seated load. Third, the peak load point is not in the Bronx. Fourth, any major GO scares away some fraction of the ridership - either they find other ways to get where they're going or they wait until the GO ends to make their trips.

 

I'm making up these numbers to illustrate the point, but let's say the 4 and D leaving 161st northbound on a weekend typically both carry about 40 people per car (that's about a seated load on the 4 and a bit over half of a seated load on the D) . The 4, then, carries 40 x 10 x 7.5 = 3,000 people per hour, and the D carries 40 x 8 x 6 = 1,920 people per hour. If the full load of the D is diverted onto the 4 (i.e., there's no diversion to other lines or to other modes or to Monday), we're looking at an hourly load of 4,920, or 4,920 / (10 * 7.5) = 66 riders per car: about 131% of guideline, not 200% or 250%.

 

Crazy incident happened. Somebody passed out on the northbound Train @ 59th Street. 15 minutes later, still waiting for help. They ended up sending the Local because of that BUT it was stupid because there was a Train at 42nd Street on the Express tracks because of that sick person. And when we got to 125th Street (On The Local), there was a DIRECTLY Behind us. And thats the same Train that had the sick passenger and even the C/R said they should have had both that And Express because the was now 15 min late. And then the Train that I mentioned before on the Express tracks via 8th Avenue was behind that Train (Local as well). So basically they sent the Local which could have been avoided, and they should have let the late Train go express. It was like wow. Really?

 

Based on your description, there was a gap in local service of close to 30 minutes, when the regular local headway is 10 minutes. You're suggesting that one 480 foot train pick up a half hour's worth of local passengers, rather than having a 600 foot train go ahead to share the load? Why are you so eager to starve the local stops of the service they need?

 

Wow indeed. In my opinion, the only thing the dispatcher did wrong here was wait 15 minutes before sending an express up the local.

[4P3607]

An (R160) got sent to Jamaica Center earlier... (I knew something told me to go out when that 12-9 happened).

[Daniel The Cool]

Just FYI - High Street and Clark Street are nearby. If I had a problem on an A train at High and I needed to get to 34th, I'd walk over to Clark for the 2/3. (Of course, I don't know if you have an unlimited.)

 

 

What about the crew shortage?

 

 

I spent a few minutes scratching my head before figuring out what I think you meant by those numbers.

 

The off-peak loading guideline allows for 125% (formerly 100%) of a seated load at the peak load point. First off, that's the loading guideline - 100% of it - not 125% of it! Second, I don't believe the D, under normal operations, typically carries as much as 125% of a seated load. Third, the peak load point is not in the Bronx. Fourth, any major GO scares away some fraction of the ridership - either they find other ways to get where they're going or they wait until the GO ends to make their trips.

 

I'm making up these numbers to illustrate the point, but let's say the 4 and D leaving 161st northbound on a weekend typically both carry about 40 people per car (that's about a seated load on the 4 and a bit over half of a seated load on the D) . The 4, then, carries 40 x 10 x 7.5 = 3,000 people per hour, and the D carries 40 x 8 x 6 = 1,920 people per hour. If the full load of the D is diverted onto the 4 (i.e., there's no diversion to other lines or to other modes or to Monday), we're looking at an hourly load of 4,920, or 4,920 / (10 * 7.5) = 66 riders per car: about 131% of guideline, not 200% or 250%.

 

 

Based on your description, there was a gap in local service of close to 30 minutes, when the regular local headway is 10 minutes. You're suggesting that one 480 foot train pick up a half hour's worth of local passengers, rather than having a 600 foot train go ahead to share the load? Why are you so eager to starve the local stops of the service they need?

 

Wow indeed. In my opinion, the only thing the dispatcher did wrong here was wait 15 minutes before sending an express up the local.

You misunderstood. The train with the sick passenger went local directly behind our Train and the 2nd Train was behind that Train. It was no 30 min gap.

[Q67 via Borden]

Here's a thought. If MTA had the money, why not demolish the Lorimer Street and Hewes Street stations on the BMT Jamaica Line and build a Union Avenue station in between to replace them. It would speed up trains especially since I'm someone who uses the a lot that, I know trains are pretty slow between Myrtle Avenue-Broadway and Essex Street. But the most important thing is that it would provide that much demanded connection to the train at Broadway. I find it ridiculous that they don't even have a free OOS transfer for that. It would definitely help relieve crowding on the train since riders would have another way to get to Manhattan.

[AndrewJC]

You misunderstood. The train with the sick passenger went local directly behind our Train and the 2nd Train was behind that Train. It was no 30 min gap.

 

And what was the gap on the local track ahead of that D?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

An (R160) got sent to Jamaica Center earlier... (I knew something told me to go out when that 12-9 happened).

 

What 12-9?

 

[Guest Lance]

If I had to guess, it was the one at 46 St.

[peacemak3r]

You misunderstood. The train with the sick passenger went local directly behind our Train and the 2nd Train was behind that Train. It was no 30 min gap.

 

I think you're misunderstanding his post.

 

He is saying that there must of been a 30 minute gap ahead of the with the sick passenger.

[Daniel The Cool]

I think you're misunderstanding his post.

 

He is saying that there must of been a 30 minute gap ahead of the with the sick passenger.

 Nope there was no gap. Before the Train with the sick passenger came, one left like 7 min ago prior to that. And plus after they sent the Train behind our Local still, another Train was behind that Train (Which ran Express from Canal-59 Street). And people were confused.

[Abba]

I don't get what's going on here.Look at this service change...

 

http://travel.mtanyct.info/serviceadvisory/routeStatusResult.aspx?tag=2&date=11/6/13&time=&method=getstatus4

 

It says after Wall Street on the ,the will go to Chambers St.Does this mean it will reverse around at Wall Street and go via Bowling Green loop? It's interesting and I don't know if it makes much sense.But it's creative thinking nonetheless.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Abba

[itmaybeokay]

I don't get what's going on here.Look at this service change...

 

http://travel.mtanyct.info/serviceadvisory/routeStatusResult.aspx?tag=2&date=11/6/13&time=&method=getstatus4

 

It says after Wall Street on the ,the will go to Chambers St.Does this mean it will reverse around at Wall Street and go via Bowling Green loop? It's interesting and I don't know if it makes much sense.But it's creative thinking nonetheless.

 

Wow, that's wacky as all hell. 

 

As far as I can tell you're right - trains will turn at Wall Street, switch over to the Southbound track, switch to South Ferry Outer Loop after bowling green, skip a bunch of stations and act like   again. 

 

I kind of have to see that to believe it. 

[Abba]

People on subchat think it has happened before but I think either it would run via 4 all the way to manhattan.Never remember this.

[peacemak3r]

That's something I'd like to experience...but since it's happening at late night, it's impossible for me and my schedule. Damn responsibilities.

[Trainmaster5]

People on subchat think it has happened before but I think either it would run via 4 all the way to manhattan.Never remember this.

N/B to Wall St on the Lex. Change ends and proceed S/B via the switch into Bowling Green and via the SF loop and non-stop on the line into Chambers St. Been there. Done that. Nothing new here. Carry on.

[M. Friday 1986]

So guys,

 

I'm right now I have a view of 207 Street Yard...remember how juat last weekend the TOMC made a trip to Brooklyn? Well right now i have a view of a 4 car train of R27/30 school cars hooked up to the Arnines. It's too far to see exactly what the consist numbers are, but i'm going to assume one car is R27 8145 and the other is R30 8463. Don't know about the other two cars (maybe 8424-25 from CIY), but this is a good photo opportunity.

[Union Tpke]

So guys,

 

I'm right now I have a view of 207 Street Yard...remember how juat last weekend the TOMC made a trip to Brooklyn? Well right now i have a view of a 4 car train of R27/30 school cars hooked up to the Arnines. It's too far to see exactly what the consist numbers are, but i'm going to assume one car is R27 8145 and the other is R30 8463. Don't know about the other two cars (maybe 8424-25 from CIY), but this is a good photo opportunity.

207 is either the last stop (being scrapped) or a place for restoration. I hope they preserve both. 8145 is the only R27 left and it would be nice to preserve a redbird R30.

[Fresh Pond]

I don't get what's going on here.Look at this service change...

 

http://travel.mtanyct.info/serviceadvisory/routeStatusResult.aspx?tag=2&date=11/6/13&time=&method=getstatus4

 

It says after Wall Street on the ,the will go to Chambers St.Does this mean it will reverse around at Wall Street and go via Bowling Green loop? It's interesting and I don't know if it makes much sense.But it's creative thinking nonetheless.

You know i asked that same question in the Planned Service Changes thread lol

 

So let me get this straight...

 

After Chambers St, its going via the to the SF loops (skipping Rector & South Ferry in the process), then using the loop tracks to head up past Bowling Green (I'm assuming its skipping it going uptown), then stop at Wall St on either platform.

 

...Then the T/O would change ends and head back downtown towards Bowling Green again, then down to Brooklyn.

 

This shit i have to see for myself.

[Q67 via Borden]

Saw bunching on the  train at Broadway-Lafayette Street. I was waiting for a Metropolitan Avenue bound  to get to my home near the Fresh Pond Road station and I saw a Coney Island bound R46   depart the station. Then not even 30 seconds later, another train arrives. I was expecting it to be an  but it was another  , this time an R160. The the  came almost immediately after the R160   left the station. I know at times two  s come before an  but that was just ridiculous on how close they were. Was there any delays that might have caused this? Smh and I thought bunching on the Chicago L Red Line was ridiculous.

[Trainmaster5]

You know i asked that same question in the Planned Service Changes thread lol

 

It's the N/B AFAIK that's making the move and it is a simple move. Uptown train arrives at Wall St on the Lex line. T/O changes ends proceeding S/B switching tracks to the Brooklyn bound platform, goes through Bowling Green station and enters the South Ferry loop. Proceeds around the outer loop and follows the N/B line non-stop up to Chambers St and then follows regular route. Pretty simple diversion move. C'mon, I thought you guys knew your stuff. Carry on.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Trainmaster5

[M. Friday 1986]

207 is either the last stop (being scrapped) or a place for restoration. I hope they preserve both. 8145 is the only R27 left and it would be nice to preserve a redbird R30.

 

I'm hoping they keep 8145. Would be two birds with one stone - sole remaining R27, and it's already painted in the Redbird scheme.

[R32 3838]

I'm hoping they keep 8145. Would be two birds with one stone - sole remaining R27, and it's already painted in the Redbird scheme.

There were talks of hooking 8145 to 8506

[lupojohn]

An (R160) got sent to Jamaica Center earlier... (I knew something told me to go out when that 12-9 happened).

Wow, do you know why?

[AndrewJC]

 Nope there was no gap. Before the Train with the sick passenger came, one left like 7 min ago prior to that. And plus after they sent the Train behind our Local still, another Train was behind that Train (Which ran Express from Canal-59 Street). And people were confused.

 

So we have 7 minutes from the previous C to the incident train, then another 15 minutes (according to your report) until the D pulled in - already up to 22 minutes, more than twice the scheduled C headway. And the C on the express track was still a few minutes away.

 

Seems like a bit of a gap to me.

 

Presumably the dispatcher didn't know, when he decided to send the D local, that the incident train would be ready to proceed in a minute or two. At that moment, his top concern was to provide service to the 72nd, 81st, 86th, 96th, 103rd, 110th, and 116th, all of which had had a gap of more than twice the scheduled headway already. He did the right thing.

 

People on subchat think it has happened before but I think either it would run via 4 all the way to manhattan.Never remember this.

 

It's happened, but not in a number of years.

 

Here it is in 2001: http://talk.nycsubway.org/perl/read?subtalk=198281

[M. Friday 1986]

There were talks of hooking 8145 to 8506

 

I heard the same as well. Time will tell I guess.