SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[Mysterious2train]

The shuttle really is redundant with the running on top of it...

 

If it were up to me, I would reconnect both ends of the shuttle to Lexington and 7th Avenue and run thru service. However, this would require a expensive rebuild and extension of platforms.

 

Speaking of which, is the reason why 145 St was never extended to accommodate 10 cars was because of the switches at both ends?

 

Shuttle gets a lot of usage despite paralleling the . It's right in midtown; also helps that that there isn't much else in crosstown service, that's convenient anyway.

 

Through service would be great to add a direct route from the East Side downtown to the West Side uptown. But "expensive rebuild" is a real understatement. Any new track connecting the downtown 7th Av track to the eastbound/southbound 42nd St track would have to pass underneath the 7th Av mainline and the Broadway Line too. Seems nigh-impossible. Same with going from Lexington Av northbound to 42nd St westbound/northbound.  

 

As for transfers with station complexes, if I'm transferring from the Lexington Av line to the Nassau St line, unless I'm going from uptown to (which is fairly straightforward), I'd rather transfer at Chambers St/Brooklyn Bridge. The Chambers St passage* is fairly short; the transfers at Canal St and Fulton St (again, aside from uptown to uptown ) are longer and more complex.

 

* - The one around the middle of the station; the one at the northern end is longer.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Mysterious2train

[P3F]

The layout of the platforms at Fulton Street is quite odd, and makes it so that the Broad Street-bound platform is isolated. I've seen many confused people looking for the uptown on the downtown platform and being clueless.

[CenSin]

It would be nice if they brought in a few more in-system transfers that would be useful:

• Park Place and City Hall: the platforms are less than 100 feet apart. The and can be used as a sort of quasi-crosstown line in Lower Manhattan.
• Prince Street and Broadway–Lafayette Street: the platforms are less than 100 feet apart.
• Bowery and Grand Street: the platforms are about 300 feet apart.
• 57 Street–7 Avenue and 7 Avenue: the platforms are about 300 feet apart.
• Lexington Avenue/63 Street and 59 Street: the platforms are about 550 feet apart.
• Court Square–23 Street and Court Square (): the northern end of the platforms actually cover the northern side of the 44 Drive sidewalk, so they should be connected at that end to eliminate the 2000-feet detour for the – transfer. The already has a transfer at 74 Street–Broadway.
• Queensboro Plaza and Queens Plaza: the platforms are about 700 feet apart.
• Fulton Street and Atlantic Avenue–Barclays Center: the platforms are about 700 feet from the platform.
• Junius Street and Livonia Avenue

I believe most of them have a sizable market.

[B35 via Church]

There is something about the 42nd st shuttle that I never cared for; can't quite put my finger on it; It's not so much the crowds either....

If I do have to go from GCT-TSQ or vice versa, I either walk or take the ......

 

Meh Fulton is OK for the most part in my experience. The only problems I have with it are the walk to the and and trying to find the correct platform on the . Shit transferring to the at Fulton Street is so confusing I once decided to just go downtown to Broad Street and transfer to an uptown train.

That's what a lot of us are getting at; none of this should really be a *thing*.....

 

Walking distance aside, look at how much more straight-forward xferring b/w subway lines is as TSQ, compared to Fulton....

It would be nice if they brought in a few more in-system transfers that would be useful:

• Park Place and City Hall: the platforms are less than 100 feet apart. The and can be used as a sort of quasi-crosstown line in Lower Manhattan.
• Prince Street and Broadway–Lafayette Street: the platforms are less than 100 feet apart.
• Bowery and Grand Street: the platforms are about 300 feet apart.
• 57 Street–7 Avenue and 7 Avenue: the platforms are about 300 feet apart.
• Lexington Avenue/63 Street and 59 Street: the platforms are about 550 feet apart.
• Court Square–23 Street and Court Square ( ): the northern end of the platforms actually cover the northern side of the 44 Drive sidewalk, so they should be connected at that end to eliminate the 2000-feet detour for the – transfer. The already has a transfer at 74 Street–Broadway.
• Queensboro Plaza and Queens Plaza: the platforms are about 700 feet apart.
• Fulton Street and Atlantic Avenue–Barclays Center: the platforms are about 700 feet from the platform.
• Junius Street and Livonia Avenue

I believe most of them have a sizable market.

- Frequenting Chinatown quite a bit, I agree with Bowery & Grand.... Don't think the Asian folks that bombard Grand would have much use for the J though....

- Park Place & City Hall and Prince & B'way Lafayette are interesting...

- Junius & Livonia should've happened like, yesterday.... I'm inclined to say it is THE reason you have so many Canarsie patrons taking buses to Utica or Flatbush av .... But yeah, it's infeasible, yada yada yada, the whole nine....

- IDK about Queensboro plz. & Queens plz; doesn't seem like it'd get much use....

Edited March 12, 2017 by B35 via Church

[46Dover]

Or what about the B60 from Canarsie to Rockaway Avenue ?

[CenSin]

Frequenting Chinatown quite a bit, I agree with Bowery & Grand.... Don't think the Asian folks that bombard Grand would have much use for the J though....

There are sizable Asian populations along the . Although the Flushing–Chinatown–Sunset Park–Bensonhurst–Sheepshead Bay market is quite established, there is a smaller and—I believe—growing community along the and . A connection at Bowery and Grand Street would provide a convenient link:

• ↔ replaces ↔↔ on the weekends.
• ↔ replaces (↔) ↔ (↔) on the weekdays

I don’t know about the ’s relevance, but the and do not have any connection to the . The would be an alternative to some.

[B35 via Church]

There are sizable Asian populations along the . Although the Flushing–Chinatown–Sunset Park–Bensonhurst–Sheepshead Bay market is quite established, there is a smaller and—I believe—growing community along the and . A connection at Bowery and Grand Street would provide a convenient link:

• ↔ replaces ↔ ↔ on the weekends.
• ↔ replaces ( ↔) ↔ (↔ ) on the weekdays

I don’t know about the ’s relevance, but the and do not have any connection to the . The would be an alternative to some.

Hold on, What community along the is this now?

[Around the Horn]

Hold on, What community along the is this now?

 

It's more so along the , but near Myrtle-Bway and Central Avenue, there are some Asian folks

[BronxBombers]

So yesterday while at the WTC station on the , there were 5 train cars in a row that had homeless people in them. It seems like every time I'm on the there are homeless people in them. The has to be the skid row of the subway system.

Edited March 12, 2017 by J95

[agar io]

Fulton is the worst. All the trains are scattered everywhere. To get to the and you have to walk via the and platform, in order to get to the and you need to exit through the platform...it's ridiculous...

God Fulton is Terrible. If the platform didn't exist a lot of the transfers simply wouldn't exist too. People have to go up down left right. To get from the Brooklyn Bound platform to the Broad St bound platform is hard enough at that station. Canal Street on the Broadway Line is another station that has a confusing set up. There are not enough signage at station platforms, and a lot of the transfers require going via the and Platforms

The layout of the     platforms at Fulton Street is quite odd, and makes it so that the Broad Street-bound platform is isolated. I've seen many confused people looking for the uptown   on the downtown platform and being clueless.

 

Blame it on the platforms. If they weren't on two levels, this confusion wouldn't happen because the uptown platform wouldn't split the mezzanine. But since this is also a relic of the 3-company system (as is Canal St on the ), there's not much we can do about it. (On a side note, Canal St is really annoying to navigate compared to Fulton St, which has a mezzanine at least)

It's more so along the , but near Myrtle-Bway and Central Avenue, there are some Asian folks

 

As an Asian myself, I wonder if it's really worth it to reroute a whole line, for possibly millions of dollars every year, just so a little part of a demographic group can benefit. Sure, it helps if a large group like Sunset Park's Chinese community requests a change, but if it's just some people and not a majority of the neighborhood who is clamoring for the change, then the reroute would not be worth it.

[Around the Horn]

As an Asian myself, I wonder if it's really worth it to reroute a whole line, for possibly millions of dollars every year, just so a little part of a demographic group can benefit. Sure, it helps if a large group like Sunset Park's Chinese community requests a change, but if it's just some people and not a majority of the neighborhood who is clamoring for the change, then the reroute would not be worth it.

 

No one is proposing a reroute... Someone brought up Bowery <--> Grand Street as a free transfer...

[agar io]

It would be nice if they brought in a few more in-system transfers that would be useful:

• Park Place and City Hall: the platforms are less than 100 feet apart. The 2 and 3 can be used as a sort of quasi-crosstown line in Lower Manhattan.
• Prince Street and Broadway–Lafayette Street: the platforms are less than 100 feet apart.
• Bowery and Grand Street: the platforms are about 300 feet apart.
• 57 Street–7 Avenue and 7 Avenue: the platforms are about 300 feet apart.
• Lexington Avenue/63 Street and 59 Street: the platforms are about 550 feet apart.
• Court Square–23 Street and Court Square : the northern end of the 7 platforms actually cover the northern side of the 44 Drive sidewalk, so they should be connected at that end to eliminate the 2000-feet detour for the E-M–7 express transfer. The 7 already has a transfer at 74 Street–Broadway.
• Queensboro Plaza and Queens Plaza: the platforms are about 700 feet apart.
• Fulton Street and Atlantic Avenue–Barclays Center: the G platforms are about 700 feet from the B-Q platform.
• Junius Street and Livonia Avenue

I believe most of them have a sizable market.

 

• Park Place and City Hall: This one might work.
• Prince Street and Broadway–Lafayette Street: The N-Q-R-W parallels the from Canal St to 14 St, so people can just transfer to the 6 at either station.
• Bowery and Grand Street: It would be convenient, but then, transfer to the can be made from the north via the at Delancey/Essex, and from the south via the at Canal. So, the MTA figures that this isn't needed.
• 57 Street–7 Avenue and 7 Avenue: This one would also work.
• Lexington Avenue/63 Street and 59 Street: It's expensive to bore vertically, thus why it was not even built when there were three chances to do so (original construction, opening of 63rd Connector, and SAS opening).
• Court Square–23 Street and Court Square  : This one is convenient, but unlike in Hong Kong, the MTA doesn't believe in "multiple ways to get around a station complex." I'd like this one.
• Queensboro Plaza and Queens Plaza: This is also a vertical-distance problem. It would be good in theory for intra-Queens travel and also for connection between the and . But Lex-59 and Court Sq allow transfer between the N-W and R, and the E-M and 7 respectively, so you can backtrack, so the MTA thinks. (And I know you just talked about Court Sq. That one is very convenient too.)
• Fulton Street and Atlantic Avenue–Barclays Center: This was studied but the MTA rejected it.
• Junius Street and Livonia Avenue: Not only does this work, but also the MTA is actually planning for this.

No one is proposing a reroute... Someone brought up Bowery <--> Grand Street as a free transfer...

 

I see. This would still trigger an expensive reconstruction of many millions of dollars though (due to ADA requirements, since you can't just drill a hole and call it a passageway anymore), so my point about cost still stands.

[LongLiveRock]

As a frequent rider of the SAS, the 57th-7th to 53rd-7th transfer would be to die for. I'd love a reliable connection to the Eighth Avenue Line. Besides, maybe they'd clean up that nasty station (53rd, that is)

[Union Tpke]

If you ask me, I think some of the least used transfers are:

• Court Street/Borough Hall since there is Atlantic Avenue–Barclays Center.
• Chambers Street/Brooklyn Bridge–City Hall since there are transfers Canal Street and Fulton Street to cover for it.
• Franklin Avenue, Botanic Garden/Franklin Avenue since the transfers are not very good (Franklin Avenue only has the ) or are covered by better options like Atlantic Avenue–Barclays Center and Fulton Street.
• 14 Street between the and since nobody that has used it before will ever want to attempt it again.
• Court Square–23 Street/Court Square between the and because once you’ve used it, you will swear not to use it ever again.

But surprise me; my knowledge is pretty deficient in this area.

I wouldn’t count Jamaica Center and West 8 Street since they are the same line. They are the same line in the sense that the and run on the same line between 168 Street and Euclid Avenue.

 

I have used the 14th Street transfer several times and many people use it.

[Union Tpke]

 

• Park Place and City Hall: This one might work.
• Prince Street and Broadway–Lafayette Street: The N-Q-R-W parallels the 6 from Canal St to 14 St, so people can just transfer to the 6 at either station.
• Bowery and Grand Street: It would be convenient, but then, transfer to the J Z can be made from the north via the F at Delancey/Essex, and from the south via the N Q at Canal. So, the MTA figures that this isn't needed.
• 57 Street–7 Avenue and 7 Avenue: This one would also work.
• Lexington Avenue/63 Street and 59 Street: It's expensive to bore vertically, thus why it was not even built when there were three chances to do so (original construction, opening of 63rd Connector, and SAS opening).
• Court Square–23 Street and Court Square  7: This one is convenient, but unlike in Hong Kong, the MTA doesn't believe in "multiple ways to get around a station complex." I'd like this one.
• Queensboro Plaza and Queens Plaza: This is also a vertical-distance problem. It would be good in theory for intra-Queens travel and also for connection between the N W and E M. But Lex-59 and Court Sq allow transfer between the N-W and R, and the E-M and 7 respectively, so you can backtrack, so the MTA thinks. (And I know you just talked about Court Sq. That one is very convenient too.)
• Fulton Street and Atlantic Avenue–Barclays Center: This was studied but the MTA rejected it.
• Junius Street and Livonia Avenue: Not only does this work, but also the MTA is actually planning for this.

 

I see. This would still trigger an expensive reconstruction of many millions of dollars though (due to ADA requirements, since you can't just drill a hole and call it a passageway anymore), so my point about cost still stands.

 

 

The Prince Street-B'way Lafayette transfer would mainly be for passengers from the to the . This would reduce crowding at Herald Square.)

The QBP-QP transfer would make it easier for QB passengers to get to Astoria.

Instead of the or to the to the or , it could be the to the or .

The Lex-63/Lex-59 transfer would be amazing. I would use it anytime over Lex/53 which is always packed and has little platform space.

The Bowery/Grand Street transfer, when SAS opens, would provide a transfer between the J and the T.

The 57th Street-Seventh Avenue transfer would be great. Instead of taking the to QP and waiting a while for an R to get to Broadway Line stations, I could take the to Seventh Avenue and take any of the .

[Fresh Pond]

Or what about the B60 from Canarsie to Rockaway Avenue ?

No one (well no smart person anyway) relies on the B60, it's just there when you don't need it lol

 

/sarcasm

[Jchambers2120]

I wish some stations like Canal street (transfer from R to N/Q platform) and park place/chambers had higher roofs/ceilings. I'm no giant, but man is it uncomfortable to almost smack your head on the roof or to feel the heat from tho7se lights and almost hit your head on those metal rods at chambers lol.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Jchambers2120

[B35 via Church]

No one (well no smart person anyway) relies on the B60, it's just there when you don't need it lol

 

/sarcasm

You say sarcasm, but this is my exact sentiment about the route.....

[CenSin]

• Bowery and Grand Street: It would be convenient, but then, transfer to the can be made from the north via the at Delancey/Essex, and from the south via the at Canal. So, the MTA figures that this isn't needed.

The proposed transfer serves different markets. If you will read it again, you will see what it serves:

• ↔ replaces ↔ ↔ on the weekends.
• ↔ replaces ( ↔) ↔ (↔ ) on the weekdays

Put it this way: if you started out on the or , how would you get to the ?

[LongLiveRock]

Put it this way: if you started out on the or , how would you get to the ?

 

 

Where exactly would you be coming from that the fastest way to a train would, hypothetically, be the ?

 

if you're north of 161st, you can take the to Brooklyn Bridge. If you're south of there, you can take the to Fulton. And otherwise, it's more convenient to take the . There's just not much market for this transfer.

[CenSin]

Where exactly would you be coming from that the fastest way to a train would, hypothetically, be the ?

 

if you're north of 161st, you can take the to Brooklyn Bridge. If you're south of there, you can take the to Fulton. And otherwise, it's more convenient to take the . There's just not much market for this transfer.

Grand Concourse Line? Brighton Line ( > )? West End Line?

[Bosco]

While I could understand the use for more transfers, many of them would be redundancies.  I think the money should be used to upgrade Canal St in the same way Fulton St was.  Improved flow, more mezzanines, etc.

[Around the Horn]

While I could understand the use for more transfers, many of them would be redundancies.  I think the money should be used to upgrade Canal St in the same way Fulton St was.  Improved flow, more mezzanines, etc.

 

You're gonna have to destroy Canal Street to put in a mezzanine there...

[CenSin]

You're gonna have to destroy Canal Street to put in a mezzanine there...

Build a bit of mezzanine here, and a bit of mezzanine there. In a few years, the patchwork of mezzanines would make a half-length mezzanine without closing down traffic entirely!

 

the bummer is that because Lafayette Street and Broadway do not have space between the road bed and the tunnel, the mezzanine cannot extend there. Another small mezzanine could be built between Broadway and Lafayette Street though.

[Around the Horn]

So when do they announce Plan V's? Usually after rush hour right?