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SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

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7 minutes ago, ttcsubwayfan said:

It's been a while since I've been to New York, but I may be visiting this year, and I wanted to finish off what I've been missing from my subway photo collection. I've begun tentatively planning an outing to photograph some cars outdoors in Brooklyn, but since the last time I've been to New York I've only gotten more cautious so I'd rather not go anywhere where I could be placing myself in danger. Can anyone comment on how safe the following areas are, to a guy waving a camera around:

-Brighton Beach (photoing R68As)
-assorted stations on the West End line (photoing R68s)
-assorted stations on the Livonia line (photoing R62s)

Obviously I wasn't born yesterday and I realize that common sense plays a significant role in how you are treated, but at the same time there's certain areas that it would just be wise to avoid, in the same way that I wouldn't go to our Toronto's Jane and Finch and start taking photos. If anyone would be able to help me out, that would be great!

Additionally, have there been any fantrip dates announced for the summer? Although I wouldn't have the time to attend one, I wouldn't mind stopping by whatever station the trip originates from to photograph the museum cars before they head out, if my trip dates coincide with that.

Thanks! 😀

Brighton and West End shouldn't be a problem, they are both in nice neighborhoods. Not so sure about Livonia though.

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On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 3:14 AM, SuperDonut said:

Hey guys. Not sure if this is the right thread to ask but I got two quick questions: I know the Kawasaki built R142s can be upgraded to R188. Can the Bombardier built ones be upgraded to be fully compatible too or would they get a different designation (if at all) such as R188A or something. Also any idea if they ever plan on replacing the strip map with the LED display system found on newer trains?

There's no real need to replace the strip maps on the 142/142As with a FIND system like those found on the 160s and 179s as the cars rarely leave their home lines. The only consistent swapping of cars only occurs on the (2) and (5) lines and that issue was resolved with the combined strip map design for the two routes.

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6 hours ago, ttcsubwayfan said:

It's been a while since I've been to New York, but I may be visiting this year, and I wanted to finish off what I've been missing from my subway photo collection. I've begun tentatively planning an outing to photograph some cars outdoors in Brooklyn, but since the last time I've been to New York I've only gotten more cautious so I'd rather not go anywhere where I could be placing myself in danger. Can anyone comment on how safe the following areas are, to a guy waving a camera around:

-Brighton Beach (photoing R68As)
-assorted stations on the West End line (photoing R68s)
-assorted stations on the Livonia line (photoing R62s)

Obviously I wasn't born yesterday and I realize that common sense plays a significant role in how you are treated, but at the same time there's certain areas that it would just be wise to avoid, in the same way that I wouldn't go to our Toronto's Jane and Finch and start taking photos. If anyone would be able to help me out, that would be great!

Additionally, have there been any fantrip dates announced for the summer? Although I wouldn't have the time to attend one, I wouldn't mind stopping by whatever station the trip originates from to photograph the museum cars before they head out, if my trip dates coincide with that.

Thanks! 😀

 

A R46 on the (Q) usually pops up in the mornings, and does one trip from 96th Street to Brighton Beach. Usually its an R46, but sometimes it is an R160. Something to look after.

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42 minutes ago, GojiMet86 said:

 

A R46 on the (Q) usually pops up in the mornings, and does one trip from 96th Street to Brighton Beach. Usually its an R46, but sometimes it is an R160. Something to look after.

Brighton? Dosent it end at Coney?

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7 hours ago, ttcsubwayfan said:

It's been a while since I've been to New York, but I may be visiting this year, and I wanted to finish off what I've been missing from my subway photo collection. I've begun tentatively planning an outing to photograph some cars outdoors in Brooklyn, but since the last time I've been to New York I've only gotten more cautious so I'd rather not go anywhere where I could be placing myself in danger. Can anyone comment on how safe the following areas are, to a guy waving a camera around:

-Brighton Beach (photoing R68As)
-assorted stations on the West End line (photoing R68s)
-assorted stations on the Livonia line (photoing R62s)

You'll need to be careful with Livonia. You'll likely have the least problems in AM rush, (most people are just trying to get to work, and too early for most characters). It varies throughout the rest of the daytime. New Lots is generally okay. For someone who might clearly look out of town, I would suggest avoiding Rockaway Ave & Junius Street.

 

Brighton and West End don't really have too many problems. On the Lower West End (south of Bay Parkway) , there are reports of unruly passengers here and there, but nothing to be scared about.

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven
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Thanks everybody for your advice. Related to the R62s, are there any stations in mid or lower Manhattan on the (3) that leave enough space at the end of the platform to take photos? If I can do that instead of going out to Livonia that would be best, although in my limited experience with that train they leave marginal amounts of space at best.

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1 hour ago, ttcsubwayfan said:

Thanks everybody for your advice. Related to the R62s, are there any stations in mid or lower Manhattan on the (3) that leave enough space at the end of the platform to take photos? If I can do that instead of going out to Livonia that would be best, although in my limited experience with that train they leave marginal amounts of space at best.

I believe that at Chambers Street, you have enough space to get a shot of the train from the front, on the Brooklyn bound side.

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12 hours ago, ttcsubwayfan said:

It's been a while since I've been to New York, but I may be visiting this year, and I wanted to finish off what I've been missing from my subway photo collection. I've begun tentatively planning an outing to photograph some cars outdoors in Brooklyn, but since the last time I've been to New York I've only gotten more cautious so I'd rather not go anywhere where I could be placing myself in danger. Can anyone comment on how safe the following areas are, to a guy waving a camera around:

-Brighton Beach (photoing R68As)
-assorted stations on the West End line (photoing R68s)
-assorted stations on the Livonia line (photoing R62s)

Brighton Beach is busy during the weekdays so you'll be more than fine there. New Lots Avenue you should be okay during the day (the rest of Livonia YMMV), and West End I've never heard of anyone having any problems over there...

3 hours ago, ttcsubwayfan said:

Thanks everybody for your advice. Related to the R62s, are there any stations in mid or lower Manhattan on the (3) that leave enough space at the end of the platform to take photos? If I can do that instead of going out to Livonia that would be best, although in my limited experience with that train they leave marginal amounts of space at best.

I think 34 Street, 14 Street and Chambers Street have a little more space, especially compared to Park Place, Fulton and Wall Street.

If only the IRT stations were overbuilt like the IND ones....

Edited by paulrivera
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5 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Brighton? Dosent it end at Coney?

Yes, it goes out of service to the Coney Island Yard. Later during the day, it comes back out as a (R) starting at 36 St-4 Av. 

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Just now, Calvin said:

Yes, it goes out of service to the Coney Island Yard. Later during the day, it comes back out as a (R) starting at 36 St-4 Av. 

Never understood why those (R) put ins from West End don't run in service.

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21 hours ago, R68OnBroadway said:

Brighton and West End shouldn't be a problem, they are both in nice neighborhoods. Not so sure about Livonia though.

you’ll be fine at Livonia , just don’t stand in anyone’s way by the staircases 

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11 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Never understood why those (R) put ins from West End don't run in service.

It uses the middle track, that's why. West End is also not busy going to Manhattan at that time so the extra service isn't needed.

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On 1/18/2019 at 12:43 PM, itmaybeokay said:

The complete fare collection system, inclusive of the MVMs, is already slated for replacement.

It's flatly incorrect that a physically old machine is inherently less secure. Most vulnerabilities are in software. Hardware vulnerabilities are fairly rare, and generally difficult to exploit. One could even make the argument that these older machines are more secure because they are too old to fall victim to the Spectre or Meltdown vulnerabilities. 

Yes, outdated operating systems are generally completely insecure. But also, Yes, the software on the MVM's has been updated. 

Besides, hardware that you'd consider outdated already handles roughly 80% of credit card transactions and probably 90% of ATM swipes. So entrenched are the aged systems that the problem is actually finding developers who can write COBOL. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-banks-cobol/banks-scramble-to-fix-old-systems-as-it-cowboys-ride-into-sunset-idUSKBN17C0D8

A choice quote:

 

So there you go. Decidedly more outdated equipment performing mission critical functions at the peaks of the economic food chain, and the core problem isn't the machines, isn't the security - it's finding developers who know COBOL. 

But, again. It doesn't matter - the machines, and the whole fare payment system is already slated for replacement. There's just no cybersecurity emergency requiring it be at the top of the list. The crisis just does not exist.

As you were. 

 

The lack of expertise in old tech is in itself a security risk.  If a system needs maintenance and you have to spend extra time finding the person to do the job, that is the time you are exposing your system's vulnerabilities.  And I don't need to mention to you the number of times banks and credit agencies have been hacked over the years.  And to your point about software being vulnerable instead of hardware, old hardware usually runs old software, because newer software often have system requirements that demand newer hardware.  So in short, again, your statement of "aged hardware <> insecure" may be true in the rawest sense, but in all practical purposes everybody knows that's not true.

But if you get NEW hardware to run old software, that's different.  My company is in such a position.  Our mission-critical software was written for an ancient OS called PICK system from the 80s, with no modern security whatsoever.  But IBM made a Windows software called "Universe" that happens to support PICK system.  So we bought a modern Windows server PC with all the modern security, run "Universe" on it, and it in turns runs the ancient software that we use to this day.  Our software, which had no security, now requires Windows authentication to run.  We are happy to not only be able to continue using the software, but also have better security as well.

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On ‎1‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 11:41 PM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

I believe that at Chambers Street, you have enough space to get a shot of the train from the front, on the Brooklyn bound side.

Lmao..... When I used to work in the 'village, man, I would see people setting up whole tripods over there... That's a rather common spot (for whatever the reason, because I personally don't see the appeal) for shooting trains, models, and.... "models" (if you catch my drift).....

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What's all this rumor, innuendo, and hearsay about Cuomo trying to block the NYCT portion of the fare hikes?

As a customer it'd be great if he pulled it off but congestion pricing is still 2 years away at the earliest.

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Interesting observation. I was on a Southbound (4) train which was held at Borough Hall for a min or 2 due to a sick passenger. Then an announcement was made that due to a sick passenger the next stop would be Atlantic Ave - Barclays. 

We went straight past Nevins St to Atlantic Ave, and was told the train wasn't going to move until paramedics arrived and to go to the local platform to continue the trip.

So, instead of staying at Borough hall and backing up all southbound service. The train went to Atlantic Ave, where passengers can make their connections and trains behind it can switch to the local track to keep service going. (And there is a Hospital like 3 blocks away). Thanks Byford! 👍

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5 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

Interesting observation. I was on a Southbound (4) train which was held at Borough Hall for a min or 2 due to a sick passenger. Then an announcement was made that due to a sick passenger the next stop would be Atlantic Ave - Barclays. 

We went straight past Nevins St to Atlantic Ave, and was told the train wasn't going to move until paramedics arrived and to go to the local platform to continue the trip.

So, instead of staying at Borough hall and backing up all southbound service. The train went to Atlantic Ave, where passengers can make their connections and trains behind it can switch to the local track to keep service going. (And there is a Hospital like 3 blocks away). Thanks Byford! 👍

Thanks Byford ? Been there and done the exact same move 30 years ago . 😁

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On 1/21/2019 at 1:23 AM, Lawrence St said:

Never understood why those (R) put ins from West End don't run in service.

<R> FTW!

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8 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Thanks Byford ? Been there and done the exact same move 30 years ago . 😁

He probably brought it back into effect. Wasn't the rule to stay put until paramedics arrived and or till a police investigation was complete, but Byford came and said we have to keep the trains moving?

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On 1/19/2019 at 9:47 PM, RR503 said:

New countdown indication for GT signals is under test right now — idea is that by telling ops when signals will clear, they’ll approach GTs (esp 1 shots) less cautiously. First install is on the n/b express at Barclays. Video:

https://imgur.com/a/W4uKhfX

That is seriously fantastic! 

(I hope they're planning on a slightly more durable housing for full-scale deploy though)

On 1/19/2019 at 9:40 PM, Enjineer said:

Quick question: you all know that little bend in the Steinway Tubes, about 3/4 of the way from Grand Central to Vernon-Jackson? Is there any reason they had to build the tunnel with that little segment, or is it just a weird oddity from construction? I ask because I've noticed now every (7) seems to take it at 35+ mph, sending the whole car flying from side to side. It's quite the doozy of a bump, that's for sure...

If it's what I'm thinking of, it has to do with the street grids in queens not being aligned with manhattan. 

steinway04.jpg

Sure they could have made the turn a wider radius, but, well, the story of that tunnel is a whole thing. NYCsubway.org has a long article about it from the 1960 issue of electric railroader magazine.

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8 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Thanks Byford ? Been there and done the exact same move 30 years ago . 😁

I believe the point is that there are (finally) some intelligent dispatching decisions being made. But yes, 90% of this fight is just restoring past best practices. 

Edit: blind me now sees N6L posted above...sorry for polluting

Edited by RR503
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55 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

He probably brought it back into effect. Wasn't the rule to stay put until paramedics arrived and or till a police investigation was complete, but Byford came and said we have to keep the trains moving?

Not entirely true. I've been in numerous situations where something similar like that has happened before Byford even showed up.

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2 hours ago, itmaybeokay said:

If it's what I'm thinking of, it has to do with the street grids in queens not being aligned with manhattan. 

I don't think so. There's a pretty gentle curve that would be the one just outside of Vernon-Jackson, but the one I'm talking about is before that. It's a very small S-curve, and it goes just a slight amount to the right from the tunnel's path up to that point. 

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1 hour ago, Enjineer said:

I don't think so. There's a pretty gentle curve that would be the one just outside of Vernon-Jackson, but the one I'm talking about is before that. It's a very small S-curve, and it goes just a slight amount to the right from the tunnel's path up to that point. 

Ah. Perhaps it's this, as quoted from that article I linked earlier:

Quote

Whether due to misalignment or loss of control of the shields, it has not been established, but a slight kink can be observed in the south tube, just east of shaft #3.

(Shaft 3 was on belmont [now u thant] island)

(A reddit post claims the two ends of the tunnel were not aligned due to miscalculation, but also talks about cast iron sections being sunk under the river [no, it was bored] and talks about it originally being built for piano transport [just no] so, not going to trust that on faith)

Though, that may be where the tunneling from the two ends intersected, and it is indeed possible they didn't intersect perfectly. 

Edit: someone asks the same question almost a decade ago on subchat and gets a similar response:

Quote

It was mentioned either on this board, or in sub-talk, or in a Transit Museum tour, that when they were building the tunnel from both ends, when they met they were off my a couple of inches (feet), that's why the bump.

I can't seem to find any document supporting this, though another user notes:

Quote

Look out the front of the train I think the tunnel shifts just a bit so the track has to

which at least anecdotally supports that. 

SO what can be said almost for sure is the track chicanes because the tunnel chicanes. 

Edited by itmaybeokay
added info from sub chat
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6 hours ago, itmaybeokay said:
Quote

Look out the front of the train I think the tunnel shifts just a bit so the track has to

which at least anecdotally supports that. 

 

Thanks for the info! That kink in the tube just drives me nuts whenever I take the (7), and it didn't seem to have an obvious purpose for existing. 

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