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Posted (edited)

On some IRT terminals, I wonder what was the cause of the two platforms not being used, except the middle platform is the only one in-use?

 

Img example:

Woodlawn IRT Subway Station Terminal, Bronx, New York City

 

Edited by Calvin

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2 hours ago, Calvin said:

On some IRT terminals, I wonder what was the cause of the two platforms not being used, except the middle platform is the only one in-use?

 

Img example:

Woodlawn IRT Subway Station Terminal, Bronx, New York City

 

Simply put, those stations aren't busy enough.

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17 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

.

They were providing the service passengers wanted.

Many riders hold doors because who knows when the next train is coming. Even now with the countdown clock, the next train can be a min or two away, but then gets held in the station "by the train's dispatcher" when it does arrive, many riders have connections to make down the line.

Also, I've heard C/O play the "holding doors" announcement only for the train to sit with the doors closed before leaving the station, or  crawl for various reasons, including workers on the tracks. Many times the holding is for a few seconds but the operational delays are much longer and frustrating.

Though, it's annoying when passengers don't step into the train , or step in like molasses and you're trying to get into the train and the C/O starts closing the doors.

And I’m sure the passengers at the stations behind them wanted some service at all, but now they’re forced to wait even longer because they’re running ahead of schedule.

You say the door holding is for a few seconds, but those seconds add up and create a domino effect. Let’s take a line like the (6) for example. If trains are scheduled to run every 4 minutes, but a S/B train starts falling behind schedule because riders aren’t boarding in a timely manner, or you have those who use their bodies to block the doors for their friends still swiping their metrocards. Their follower catches up and has to run at a slower speed due to the signals so they start falling behind schedule as well. Now Grand Central Tower notices this and they’ll give the train that’s falling behind a skip, but depending on how much of a gap in service there is they may also have to hold back a N/B train at the bridge which also creates a delay heading north. So please spare me with that few seconds mantra. 

Not sure what a C/O is (correction officer?) I’m sure you mean C/R...

 

14 hours ago, RR503 said:

TOs and CRs don't know if they're under or over performing

We are given schedule cards and they have to be carried with you while on the train (part of our ppe) plus the RCC will get on the radio and nag us about where did we lose our time if we start falling behind or running ahead of schedule and use holding lights. 

I agree wholeheartedly with your post about something needs to done about schedules. There’s plenty of employees who feel the same as well. 

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I took the (D) from 50 St to Atlantic Av-Barclays Center to take the LIRR home. When the (D) got to 36 St, the (N) was across the platform on the local track. The (N) left first, then the (R) came in and left followed by my (D) train finally leaving 36 St. My (D) train passed by the (R) train express at 25 St but never passed by the (N). What was the (N) doing on the local track? Does this usually happen?

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1 hour ago, Jchambers2120 said:

We are given schedule cards and they have to be carried with you while on the train (part of our ppe) plus the RCC will get on the radio and nag us about where did we lose our time if we start falling behind or running ahead of schedule and use holding lights. 

True, though it’s hard to estimate what you should be doing on a granular station-to-station level if your GO supplement schedule is normal runtime with 20 mins of mid and end of line hold time thrown in to deal with ATF. 

1 hour ago, Jchambers2120 said:

And I’m sure the passengers at the stations behind them wanted some service at all, but now they’re forced to wait even longer because they’re running ahead of schedule.

You say the door holding is for a few seconds, but those seconds add up and create a domino effect. Let’s take a line like the (6) for example. If trains are scheduled to run every 4 minutes, but a S/B train starts falling behind schedule because riders aren’t boarding in a timely manner, or you have those who use their bodies to block the doors for their friends still swiping their metrocards. Their follower catches up and has to run at a slower speed due to the signals so they start falling behind schedule as well. Now Grand Central Tower notices this and they’ll give the train that’s falling behind a skip, but depending on how much of a gap in service there is they may also have to hold back a N/B train at the bridge which also creates a delay heading north. So please spare me with that few seconds mantra. 

 Not sure what a C/O is (correction officer?) I’m sure you mean C/R...

My favorite example of this is the (E) and (F) in Queens. If either of them incur so much as 15 seconds of delay from the terminal to 75, they’re basically guaranteed to delay their follower at 75. And if that delay results in the follower riding the leaders tail all the way up, your runtimes spiral up. Little things matter! 

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9 minutes ago, RR503 said:

True, though it’s hard to estimate what you should be doing on a granular station-to-station level if your GO supplement schedule is normal runtime with 20 mins of mid and end of line hold time thrown in to deal with ATF. 

My favorite example of this is the (E) and (F) in Queens. If either of them incur so much as 15 seconds of delay from the terminal to 75, they’re basically guaranteed to delay their follower at 75. And if that delay results in the follower riding the leaders tail all the way up, your runtimes spiral up. Little things matter! 

Yup. (E) trains often wait in KG for the signal to clear, meaning that the problem likely occurs at the terminal – JC, where people rushing to the train hold the doors. I can't speak for 179th Street, but it would not surprise me if that were the case. We might need platform controllers at these stops.

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51 minutes ago, EphraimB said:

I took the (D) from 50 St to Atlantic Av-Barclays Center to take the LIRR home. When the (D) got to 36 St, the (N) was across the platform on the local track. The (N) left first, then the (R) came in and left followed by my (D) train finally leaving 36 St. My (D) train passed by the (R) train express at 25 St but never passed by the (N). What was the (N) doing on the local track? Does this usually happen?

The (N) train had been sent to the local track for months from 59th Street to 36th Street, due to structural repair work on the express tracks south of 36th Street. Your (D) train that left 36th Street only followed the (N) train since it had to switch back to the express track in front of the (D) train, even when the (N) train was across the platform. The interlocking north of there is very slow, to say the least.

 

12 hours ago, Calvin said:

On some IRT terminals, I wonder what was the cause of the two platforms not being used, except the middle platform is the only one in-use?

 

Img example:

Woodlawn IRT Subway Station Terminal, Bronx, New York City

 

This really had to do with the former purpose of the side platforms. When first built, the island platform was meant for only boarding passengers for trains departing from the last stop, while the side platforms were meant for only departing passengers for trains that arrived at the last stop. This type of Spanish solution became redundant when the R type cars began to proliferate the IRT, especially with the R15 and R17 (which by that point had the conductor controls in the cabs).

Today, there are only a few terminals that use the Spanish solution. One terminal, Main Street - Flushing, uses the Spanish solution at all times on the Middle track. The others (like East 180th Street and Harlem 145th Street) only use it during certain periods of the day.

There are terminals like Burnside, Whitehall Street - South Ferry, Bedford Park, Astoria Boulevard - Hoyt Avenue, Gun Hill on White Plains, 149th Street (upper level), Broadway - Eastern Parkway and Broadway Junction that could use the Spanish solution, but they just don't use it. The one for 149th is a special case being that the crossovers are north of the stop, while the others more or less have to do with the difficulty of opening both sides at those stops.

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3 minutes ago, 4 via Mosholu said:

The (N) train had been sent to the local track for months from 59th Street to 36th Street, due to structural repair work on the express tracks south of 36th Street. Your (D) train that left 36th Street only followed the (N) train since it had to switch back to the express track in front of the (D) train, even when the (N) train was across the platform. The interlocking north of there is very slow, to say the least.

I wish I would have knew that the (N) would have left first. I would have transferred over to the (N) from the (D). At least I still made the LIRR within 5 minutes. Why didn't they announce which train was leaving first?

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3 minutes ago, EphraimB said:

I wish I would have knew that the (N) would have left first. I would have transferred over to the (N) from the (D). At least I still made the LIRR within 5 minutes. Why didn't they announce which train was leaving first?

Conductors do not often know which train leaves first. You would have heard from the (D) train conductor that the  (N) train across the platform was going to depart first. But if you did not hear it, it would have been the result of a faulty intercom system that exists on the older tech.

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1 hour ago, 4 via Mosholu said:

The (N) train had been sent to the local track for months from 59th Street to 36th Street, due to structural repair work on the express tracks south of 36th Street. Your (D) train that left 36th Street only followed the (N) train since it had to switch back to the express track in front of the (D) train, even when the (N) train was across the platform. The interlocking north of there is very slow, to say the least.

 

This really had to do with the former purpose of the side platforms. When first built, the island platform was meant for only boarding passengers for trains departing from the last stop, while the side platforms were meant for only departing passengers for trains that arrived at the last stop. This type of Spanish solution became redundant when the R type cars began to proliferate the IRT, especially with the R15 and R17 (which by that point had the conductor controls in the cabs).

Today, there are only a few terminals that use the Spanish solution. One terminal, Main Street - Flushing, uses the Spanish solution at all times on the Middle track. The others (like East 180th Street and Harlem 145th Street) only use it during certain periods of the day.

There are terminals like Burnside, Whitehall Street - South Ferry, Bedford Park, Astoria Boulevard - Hoyt Avenue, Gun Hill on White Plains, 149th Street (upper level), Broadway - Eastern Parkway and Broadway Junction that could use the Spanish solution, but they just don't use it. The one for 149th is a special case being that the crossovers are north of the stop, while the others more or less have to do with the difficulty of opening both sides at those stops.

I mean, I'd say Whitehall uses it. The (W) conductors open the doors first on the southbound platform to let people off, and then close them and open the doors on the northbound platform to let people on.

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8 minutes ago, P3F said:

I mean, I'd say Whitehall uses it. The (W) conductors open the doors first on the southbound platform to let people off, and then close them and open the doors on the northbound platform to let people on.

What I meant to say was that terminals like Whitehall don't use the Spanish solution the way Main Street - Flushing uses it or even 180 and 145.

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3 hours ago, RR503 said:

My favorite example of this is the (E) and (F) in Queens. If either of them incur so much as 15 seconds of delay from the terminal to 75, they’re basically guaranteed to delay their follower at 75.

Every time I've been on the QBL during rush (mind you I am a complete outsider to what's happening with RTO), I see a complete line of express trains. Roosevelt often has large crowds, and train after train they come in, crawling in with the ST signals active. And of course all that is felt at Forest Hills where you have late (F) trains making the local switch, delaying (E)s behind it, and so on and so forth. It's not just a hidden thing that small delays can cause problems to spiral

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20 minutes ago, 4 via Mosholu said:

What I meant to say was that terminals like Whitehall don't use the Spanish solution the way Main Street - Flushing uses it or even 180 and 145.

At Flushing I know they do it to allow people to get to trains that might be leaving before the train on Track M. Given the small staircases and large crowds, it's a lot nicer to walk through a terminating express on Track M than to cross over. 

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2 hours ago, 4 via Mosholu said:

Conductors do not often know which train leaves first. You would have heard from the (D) train conductor that the  (N) train across the platform was going to depart first. But if you did not hear it, it would have been the result of a faulty intercom system that exists on the older tech.

Another way you can know is be on the first car then check which track has the lineup ,then you will know .

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9 minutes ago, Abba said:

Another way you can know is be on the first car then check which track has the lineup ,then you will know .

I usually check from the middle. The lights are pretty bright. Blockage is rare as long as you're not at the end of the train.

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26 minutes ago, EphraimB said:

Can you show me a picture of what the signal of which train goes first looks like?

Referring to the (N) on the local, it would be a green/yellow signal over a yellow signal on the bottom, which indicates a diverging route. Your (D) would then have a green/yellow over green, indicating it's clear to proceed straight through the interlocking. 

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The MTA just updated their website on The Sea Beach construction completion from Spring 2019 to Summer 2019. Next thing we know they'll change it to Fall 2019 then Winter...

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, ABOGbrooklyn said:

The MTA just updated their website on The Sea Beach construction completion from Spring 2019 to Summer 2019. Next thing we know they'll change it to Fall 2019 then Winter...

It is very sad that neither the (NYCT) nor the (MTA) know how to get their affairs in place when making sure to be on time with major reconstruction work. 

On a lighter note, this is the 100th post that I have made on this forum.

Edited by 4 via Mosholu
Recognizing that it is my 100th post that I have made on this forum.

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13 hours ago, 4 via Mosholu said:

There are terminals like Burnside, Whitehall Street - South Ferry, Bedford Park, Astoria Boulevard - Hoyt Avenue, Gun Hill on White Plains, 149th Street (upper level), Broadway - Eastern Parkway and Broadway Junction that could use the Spanish solution, but they just don't use it. The one for 149th is a special case being that the crossovers are north of the stop, while the others more or less have to do with the difficulty of opening both sides at those stops.

Reminds me, the PATH still runs this. 33rd Street has a departure platform and an arrival platform, and they keep it pretty separate for boarding. Neat system in a crowd.

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18 hours ago, ABOGbrooklyn said:

The MTA just updated their website on The Sea Beach construction completion from Spring 2019 to Summer 2019. Next thing we know they'll change it to Fall 2019 then Winter...

We knew this was coming when the info regarding the delays at 8 Avenue came out recently. The schedule change just confirms this unfortunately.

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19 hours ago, ABOGbrooklyn said:

The MTA just updated their website on The Sea Beach construction completion from Spring 2019 to Summer 2019. Next thing we know they'll change it to Fall 2019 then Winter...

What about never...

*sarcasm* 

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Another typical weekend on the (R) where there's a huge 28 minute gap between trains... 

Theres a 95th Street bound train at Union Street and the next one after that is at 14th.

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1 hour ago, Around the Horn said:

Another typical weekend on the (R) where there's a huge 28 minute gap between trains... 

Theres a 95th Street bound train at Union Street and the next one after that is at 14th.

I swear it is like the M101... I checked bus time once and there was a NB one at 57th and the next one was at Cooper Union... there were also 3 NB ones clustered between 183rd and 193rd. There were also no NB ones between 99th and 183rd.

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There are three lines making local stops on the Broadway line, my thought is: why not have the (N) run Express just for this weekend since the (E) shares the same local tracks as the (R) to Whitehall St?

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