SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[Calvin]

Was the weekend  headways recently changed? Before, it used to be 8-10 minutes for each train arrival but ended up being a 15 min wait. 

[paulrivera]

3 minutes ago, Calvin said:

Was the weekend  headways recently changed? Before, it used to be 8-10 minutes for each train arrival but ended up being a 15 min wait. 

and  weekend headways were officially changed to 12 minute headways to accommodate CBTC installation in Queens.

Your  train was technically within compliance of wait assessment guidelines even though it was a really long wait.

[Missabassie]

Well if anyone wanted to know, it lives.

 

R68 Subway car 2876 Rollsign Interior by Missabassie, on Flickr

R68 Subway car 2876 Rollsign Exterior by Missabassie, on Flickr

NYC Subway R68 Leaving 125th Street Station 1 by Missabassie, on Flickr

 

This was 207 st bound aprox. 22:00 Friday night.

Edited June 15, 2019 by Missabassie

[Daniel The Cool]

8 hours ago, paulrivera said:

I love how the  train stopped running all 10 miles of its route at 7pm because of a 300 foot long work train that got stuck on one track at a station with three other tracks.

I was shocked that they didn't at least have the southbound Trains end at Kings Highway. 

 

The last southbound that left 145th Street when they started suspending service did end at 2nd Avenue and went back Uptown in service however. 

[Future ENY OP]

8 hours ago, Missabassie said:

Well if anyone wanted to know, it lives.

 

R68 Subway car 2876 Rollsign Interior by Missabassie, on Flickr

R68 Subway car 2876 Rollsign Exterior by Missabassie, on Flickr

NYC Subway R68 Leaving 125th Street Station 1 by Missabassie, on Flickr

 

This was 207 st bound aprox. 22:00 Friday night.

Yeh. 2822 R68 was rolling into Nostrand Avenue  station at 21:00 last night heading to 207. 

[R68OnBroadway]

9 hours ago, paulrivera said:

and  weekend headways were officially changed to 12 minute headways to accommodate CBTC installation in Queens.

Your  train was technically within compliance of wait assessment guidelines even though it was a really long wait.

Why don’t they just send the  to Astoria and have only the  to maintain somewhat decent frequencies?

[paulrivera]

Just now, R68OnBroadway said:

Why don’t they just send the  to Astoria and have only the  to maintain somewhat decent frequencies?

Because Astoria has their own problems to deal with.

[R68OnBroadway]

5 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

Because Astoria has their own problems to deal with.

Then terminate it at QBP (or even send it up 2nd). The  shouldn't have to suffer just to keep the  on QBL (you would also help Bay Ridge a bit in doing so).

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

At least this weekend the is going to 179 and there is all local service. Only question is that if the is short turned, would it be the or the running local to cover it

[RR503]

You could also turn using the pocket at Queens Plaza. They did that for a bunch of GOs maybe 2 years ago. 

, I’d imagine, would be local. Otherwise you’re fully cutting local riders off from 53/60, rather than forcing a transfer. 

[Lawrence St]

1 hour ago, paulrivera said:

Because Astoria has their own problems to deal with.

Why don't some trains go up 2nd Av during the Astoria closure? I imagine having a one track terminal causes delays along the whole line.

[Calvin]

4 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Why don't some trains go up 2nd Av during the Astoria closure? I imagine having a one track terminal causes delays along the whole line.

The  will be at 2nd Av with the  nonstop weekends till 2020. 3 lines in one terminal is a problem.

[Lex]

12 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Why don't some trains go up 2nd Av during the Astoria closure? I imagine having a one track terminal causes delays along the whole line.

At 6 tph? Why bother with branching at all?

[RR503]

20 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Why don't some trains go up 2nd Av during the Astoria closure? I imagine having a one track terminal causes delays along the whole line.

It's possible to operate single track terminals at as much as 15-16tph. If there are delays at 6tph, the fix is fixing operations.

Edited June 15, 2019 by RR503

[paulrivera]

21 minutes ago, Lex said:

At 6 tph? Why bother with branching at all?

The  is actually *5* tph due to supplement.

Also, NYCT generally avoids having more than 15tph on any one track on Saturdays and Sundays.

Hell, they’d do *3* tph if they felt they could get away with it (hey  and  riders, how y’all doin?)

[Daniel The Cool]

3 hours ago, RR503 said:

You could also turn using the pocket at Queens Plaza. They did that for a bunch of GOs maybe 2 years ago. 

Except that had to do with a G.O having both and Trains ending at 71st Avenue.

[RR503]

3 minutes ago, Daniel The Cool said:

Except that had to do with a G.O having both and Trains ending at 71st Avenue.

Yes, but the cause of  trains turning at Queens Plaza is pretty irrelevant to the question of whether or not you _can_ turn/they have turned  trains at Queens Plaza. 

Edited June 15, 2019 by RR503

[Lex]

4 hours ago, paulrivera said:

The  is actually *5* tph due to supplement.

Also, NYCT generally avoids having more than 15tph on any one track on Saturdays and Sundays.

Hell, they’d do *3* tph if they felt they could get away with it (hey  and  riders, how y’all doin?)

Hey, don't blame the MTA for that one. The whole thing surrounding that is executive meddling.

As for the  and , they definitely need to do better (5 tph should be the absolute minimum during the day).

[Around the Horn]

5 hours ago, paulrivera said:

The  is actually *5* tph due to supplement.

Also, NYCT generally avoids having more than 15tph on any one track on Saturdays and Sundays.

Hell, they’d do *3* tph if they felt they could get away with it (hey  and  riders, how y’all doin?)

I mean with the delays in Manhattan from all the people trying to squeeze on too few trains, you practically do have 3 tph...

20 minute waits on the weekends are regular at this point.

[RR503]

1 hour ago, Lex said:

Hey, don't blame the MTA for that one. The whole thing surrounding that is executive meddling.

As for the  and , they definitely need to do better (5 tph should be the absolute minimum during the day).

This is very much a NYCT problem. Weekend service reduction is a direct result of the agency’s lack of attention to GO productivity and of flagging rules developed largely by the agency. The agency may not have control over some of the more arcane work rules, but it absolutely can do a better job coordinating projects, properly scheduling work trains and flagging crews, etc. It also could either invest in track barriers to eliminate adjacent flagging, or review flagging rules to understand what in them is working and what is not while comparing to other systems’ practices. And of course there’s always the option of changing the predominant GO format — emphasizing less frequent full shutdowns over the endless dribble of one-direction reroutes. 

With the , the issue is the  and Brooklyn. You can’t run the  at 5tph, nor can you run Lex-Brooklyn or Jerome that low. So you run 7.5/3/7.5, which itself is really pushing it in terms of flagging capacities. I just wish they’d run 3tph of overlay service as far as 149-GC to complement the 3 of Manhattan service. 

Edited June 16, 2019 by RR503

[GreatOne2k]

1 hour ago, RR503 said:

This is very much a NYCT problem. Weekend service reduction is a direct result of the agency’s lack of attention to GO productivity and of flagging rules developed largely by the agency. The agency may not have control over some of the more arcane work rules, but it absolutely can do a better job coordinating projects, properly scheduling work trains and flagging crews, etc. It also could either invest in track barriers to eliminate adjacent flagging, or review flagging rules to understand what in them is working and what is not while comparing to other systems’ practices. And of course there’s always the option of changing the predominant GO format — emphasizing less frequent full shutdowns over the endless dribble of one-direction reroutes. 

With the , the issue is the  and Brooklyn. You can’t run the  at 5tph, nor can you run Lex-Brooklyn or Jerome that low. So you run 7.5/3/7.5, which itself is really pushing it in terms of flagging capacities. I just wish they’d run 3tph of overlay service as far as 149-GC to complement the 3 of Manhattan service. 

The  has to run at 5 tph when the  is replacing the as 241 St and Flatbush Av can't have 20 minute headways. The has to run local when this happens though

 

It is either: 

7.5 /  3  /  7.5  

or

7.5  / 5  / 5 

[RR503]

12 minutes ago, GreatOne2k said:

The  has to run at 5 tph when the  is replacing the as 241 St and Flatbush Av can't have 20 minute headways. The has to run local when this happens though

 

It is either: 

7.5 /  3  /  7.5  

or

7.5  / 5  / 5 

Yes, this was the pattern that was ran all through Clark. The point is again not that it’s impossible to run  at 5, just that the agency prefers not to given the runtime impact of  local and the relatively high weekend ridership on Pelham. 

[trainfan22]

This afternoon I just missed an Canarsie Bound (L) at Broadway Junction, had to wait 17 minutes for the next one SMH, thanks Cuomo. Garbage G.O. 

[Lex]

2 hours ago, RR503 said:

This is very much a NYCT problem. Weekend service reduction is a direct result of the agency’s lack of attention to GO productivity and of flagging rules developed largely by the agency. The agency may not have control over some of the more arcane work rules, but it absolutely can do a better job coordinating projects, properly scheduling work trains and flagging crews, etc. It also could either invest in track barriers to eliminate adjacent flagging, or review flagging rules to understand what in them is working and what is not while comparing to other systems’ practices. And of course there’s always the option of changing the predominant GO format — emphasizing less frequent full shutdowns over the endless dribble of one-direction reroutes. 

With the , the issue is the  and Brooklyn. You can’t run the  at 5tph, nor can you run Lex-Brooklyn or Jerome that low. So you run 7.5/3/7.5, which itself is really pushing it in terms of flagging capacities. I just wish they’d run 3tph of overlay service as far as 149-GC to complement the 3 of Manhattan service. 

Turning  trains there would be a real pain, whereas turning the  (on the upper level) is rather straightforward. If we must decrease service in Manhattan, the best course would be to run both at 5 tph, have the  serve Brooklyn (Flatbush Avenue unless the Nostrand Avenue Line is closed, in which case it'll run to Utica Avenue) and run  short-turns between Woodlawn and 149th Street. This keeps the number of people screwed over to a minimum and avoids excessive relaying.

[paulrivera]

1 hour ago, Lex said:

Turning  trains there would be a real pain, whereas turning the  (on the upper level) is rather straightforward. If we must decrease service in Manhattan, the best course would be to run both at 5 tph, have the  serve Brooklyn (Flatbush Avenue unless the Nostrand Avenue Line is closed, in which case it'll run to Utica Avenue) and run  short-turns between Woodlawn and 149th Street. This keeps the number of people screwed over to a minimum and avoids excessive relaying.

Running  shuttles in the Bronx solves nothing because just about everyone riding is going to Manhattan.