Lex Posted June 16, 2019 Share #21501 Posted June 16, 2019 Just now, paulrivera said: Running shuttles in the Bronx solves nothing because just about everyone riding is going to Manhattan. I could've phrased that better, but the shuttles are supposed to run in addition to the trains serving Brooklyn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR503 Posted June 16, 2019 Share #21502 Posted June 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Lex said: Turning trains there would be a real pain, whereas turning the (on the upper level) is rather straightforward. If we must decrease service in Manhattan, the best course would be to run both at 5 tph, have the serve Brooklyn (Flatbush Avenue unless the Nostrand Avenue Line is closed, in which case it'll run to Utica Avenue) and run short-turns between Woodlawn and 149th Street. This keeps the number of people screwed over to a minimum and avoids excessive relaying. Good luck scheduling a 2.5tph overlay onto a 5tph service without creating all sorts of strange gaps in Manhattan. 3/3 is quick and easy that way. This would also get complicated whenever all service is on one track in Brooklyn. Relaying s on the upper level, fwiw, is not at all complicated. All the switches are there, and scheduling a 6/7.5tph merge is doable even for the most incompetent schedulers at NYCT. Then you have legible service patterns (every other to 149, all s through), you don’t have people walking down to the deep platforms at 149 just to crawl back up, and you get slightly improved frequency for intraboro/ transfer riders on WPR. I say a win. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted June 16, 2019 Share #21503 Posted June 16, 2019 2 hours ago, trainfan22 said: This afternoon I just missed an Canarsie Bound at Broadway Junction, had to wait 17 minutes for the next one SMH, thanks Cuomo. Garbage G.O. I feel your pain. The is annoying now compared to before. Most of the time on the weekends when I transfer at Broadway Junction from the , I always miss the by a few seconds to a minute and then there is a 10-15 minute wait usually. I still think they should have shut down the line in Manhattan and cut the to Bedford Ave. I feel like the extra service provided by the is a waste, because most people take the train to Lorimer Street and wait for the next . However I do think it’s nice having third service along 6th Ave on the weekends and removing the need to transfer from the to the . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted June 16, 2019 Share #21504 Posted June 16, 2019 15 minutes ago, RR503 said: Good luck scheduling a 2.5tph overlay onto a 5tph service without creating all sorts of strange gaps in Manhattan. Because 5/5 totally isn't a thing... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR503 Posted June 16, 2019 Share #21505 Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Lex said: Because 5/5 totally isn't a thing... I mean yeah, you could run 5tph of Bronx shuttles, but is that honestly a good use of resources given alternative plans exist? Remember, weekend crewing arrangements are extremely complicated given the number of CRs sucked into flagging — you have to pick what you’re gonna spend crew hours on wisely. Anticipating the argument about the shuttle being shorter than the and the crew issue thus not being as clear cut, the frequency difference (5tph vs 3tph) would require the shuttle to be 60% or less the length of the . This is not the case. Last I remember, running time from 149 to Woodlawn is around 20 mins, and 138 to Dyre is 28 or 29. That’s at best 69%. Once again, I want to go back to the larger problem of value here. What does this service pattern gain riders? Jerome loses 2.5tph of its only Manhattan service so that WPR can gain 2 on its second. Is it worth making yet another corridor suffer when you can add an overlay and call it a day? Edited June 16, 2019 by RR503 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abba Posted June 16, 2019 Share #21506 Posted June 16, 2019 17 hours ago, Daniel The Cool said: I was shocked that they didn't at least have the southbound Trains end at Kings Highway. The last southbound that left 145th Street when they started suspending service did end at 2nd Avenue and went back Uptown in service however. I have a feeling maybe that might have been since there is no crew office there or something? I guess since it was 7pm already they just thought they would call it a day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted June 16, 2019 Share #21507 Posted June 16, 2019 56 minutes ago, RR503 said: Once again, I want to go back to the larger problem of value here. What does this service pattern gain riders? Jerome loses 2.5tph of its only Manhattan service so that WPR can gain retain 2 on its second (which is also the only service on the Dyre Avenue Line, and it already runs the bare minimum by default). Is it worth making yet another corridor suffer when you can add an overlay and call it a day? Even taking the horrific topography around Jerome Avenue (street and line) into consideration, the 's route is still more accessible than the bulk of the and in the Bronx. Not trying to half-ass everything with an overlay from harder-to-reach (read: out of the way) areas in the Bronx also translates to not screwing over Brooklyn, particularly those trying to reach stations along Nostrand Avenue (again, harder to reach, albeit in a drastically different manner), as well as giving Brooklyn more of the preferred service (Lexington Avenue). In addition, a 5/5 overlay on Jerome would make it easier to travel between 149th Street and points north for everyone, and while those with mobility issues would have longer-than-normal waits between trains serving Manhattan, it would not be as severe as for those experiencing that 3/3 overlay. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence St Posted June 16, 2019 Share #21508 Posted June 16, 2019 I never understood why out of the two White Plains Road Lines, the was the one to have a reduced weekend frequency and normal weekend operation to end at Bowling Green. The serves 7th Avenue which isn't nearly as busy as Lexington Avenue, so why is the the one to always get the boot when theres a G.O? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted June 16, 2019 Share #21509 Posted June 16, 2019 3 hours ago, Lex said: Even taking the horrific topography around Jerome Avenue (street and line) into consideration, the 's route is still more accessible than the bulk of the and in the Bronx. Not trying to half-ass everything with an overlay from harder-to-reach (read: out of the way) areas in the Bronx also translates to not screwing over Brooklyn, particularly those trying to reach stations along Nostrand Avenue (again, harder to reach, albeit in a drastically different manner), as well as giving Brooklyn more of the preferred service (Lexington Avenue). In addition, a 5/5 overlay on Jerome would make it easier to travel between 149th Street and points north for everyone, and while those with mobility issues would have longer-than-normal waits between trains serving Manhattan, it would not be as severe as for those experiencing that 3/3 overlay. I have never heard anyone refer to topography as “horrific”. I guess you mean hilly... 9 minutes ago, Lawrence St said: I never understood why out of the two White Plains Road Lines, the was the one to have a reduced weekend frequency and normal weekend operation to end at Bowling Green. The serves 7th Avenue which isn't nearly as busy as Lexington Avenue, so why is the the one to always get the boot when theres a G.O? The are so busy mainly because prior to the , you had no other subway serving the East Side, so naturally the Lex line is crowded. That said, the and share a lot of territory together, and the eventually runs by itself in the Bronx covering rather dense areas. Given the resources it makes sense. The gets slammed, as does 7th Avenue, and the Dyre Avenue line covers areas that aren’t as dense and generally have more express bus service to make up for it such as Morris Park. The location of the Dyre Avenue line stops are not exactly that accessible which is another issue. I never understood the location of that line. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W4ST Posted June 16, 2019 Share #21510 Posted June 16, 2019 29 minutes ago, Lawrence St said: I never understood why out of the two White Plains Road Lines, the was the one to have a reduced weekend frequency and normal weekend operation to end at Bowling Green. The serves 7th Avenue which isn't nearly as busy as Lexington Avenue, so why is the the one to always get the boot when theres a G.O? If the is cut, there's no way to get to 7th Avenue from the Bronx by subway. However, if the is cut, you can still get to Lexington Avenue (It's inefficient, but you still can) The is the more important line in 7th Ave, since the can be replicated by the , so they try to keep it open, or keep its frequency higher. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence St Posted June 16, 2019 Share #21511 Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, W4ST said: If the is cut, there's no way to get to 7th Avenue from the Bronx by subway. However, if the is cut, you can still get to Lexington Avenue (It's inefficient, but you still can) The is the more important line in 7th Ave, since the can be replicated by the , so they try to keep it open, or keep its frequency higher. The other thing is that if the were to end within Manhattan, it would have to switch back and forth with the at Chambers St. Edited June 16, 2019 by Lawrence St 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence St Posted June 16, 2019 Share #21512 Posted June 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said: I have never heard anyone refer to topography as “horrific”. I guess you mean hilly... The are so busy mainly because prior to the , you had no other subway serving the East Side, so naturally the Lex line is crowded. That said, the and share a lot of territory together, and the eventually runs by itself in the Bronx covering rather dense areas. Given the resources it makes sense. The gets slammed, as does 7th Avenue, and the Dyre Avenue line covers areas that aren’t as dense and generally have more express bus service to make up for it such as Morris Park. The location of the Dyre Avenue line stops are not exactly that accessible which is another issue. I never understood the location of that line. The Dyre line was orginally a railroad which had much better ridership north of Kingsbridge since one of the main purpose was to bring people from Westchester into Manhattan. When NYWB went out north of Dyre, so did the ridership and everything else with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR503 Posted June 16, 2019 Share #21513 Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Lex said: Even taking the horrific topography around Jerome Avenue (street and line) into consideration, the 's route is still more accessible than the bulk of the and in the Bronx. Not trying to half-ass everything with an overlay from harder-to-reach (read: out of the way) areas in the Bronx also translates to not screwing over Brooklyn, particularly those trying to reach stations along Nostrand Avenue (again, harder to reach, albeit in a drastically different manner), as well as giving Brooklyn more of the preferred service (Lexington Avenue). In addition, a 5/5 overlay on Jerome would make it easier to travel between 149th Street and points north for everyone, and while those with mobility issues would have longer-than-normal waits between trains serving Manhattan, it would not be as severe as for those experiencing that 3/3 overlay. We may just have to agree to disagree here. The impossibility of assessing a route's 'horrificness' aside, the Dyre line in the end of the day only attracts a fraction of Jerome's ridership. WPR draws more, but the line also gets more baseline service than Jerome (thank you, ). However much I may bemoan the MTA's weekend routing decisions in Brooklyn, there is some logic to them: every time they need to put all service on one track and flag, the would likely be cut to Bowling Green if not further north. The same would likely be true in the case of a Nostrand shutdown, what with the and already using Utica. I understand the impulse to choose the plan that provides more service in aggregate, but again, there needs to be a consideration of priorities here: is it worth messing with Jerome, forcing ugly transfers at 149, to run a more expensive service plan? I say no. Edited June 16, 2019 by RR503 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatOne2k Posted June 16, 2019 Share #21514 Posted June 16, 2019 Another option would be to run half of the trains as trains to South Ferry to maintain the service between E 180 St and 149 St - Grand Concourse, this way the can be reduced on Lexington Avenue and there would still be the same amount of service in the Bronx. MTA did this on a Friday evening once by suspending all service from 8:30pm to 10:30pm S/B and from 10:00pm to 12:00am N/B and ran the to both 241 St - Flatbush Ave and Dyre Av - South Ferry at the same time. The resumed service when the and swapped terminals though, the just went to/from Dyre early. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted June 16, 2019 Share #21515 Posted June 16, 2019 22 minutes ago, GreatOne2k said: Another option would be to run half of the trains as trains to South Ferry to maintain the service between E 180 St and 149 St - Grand Concourse, this way the can be reduced on Lexington Avenue and there would still be the same amount of service in the Bronx. MTA did this on a Friday evening once by suspending all service from 8:30pm to 10:30pm S/B and from 10:00pm to 12:00am N/B and ran the to both 241 St - Flatbush Ave and Dyre Av - South Ferry at the same time. The resumed service when the and swapped terminals though, the just went to/from Dyre early. Aside from confusing passengers more, the reductions have a bad tendency to come up alongside reductions stemming from work in Manhattan (which, incidentally, comes up far more often than similar work in Brooklyn). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatOne2k Posted June 16, 2019 Share #21516 Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Lex said: Aside from confusing passengers more, the reductions have a bad tendency to come up alongside reductions stemming from work in Manhattan (which, incidentally, comes up far more often than similar work in Brooklyn). MTA already does this sometimes on Monday mornings after a Clark Street Tunnel shutdown. service runs Flatbush - 241, but there are still trains running South Ferry - Dyre after 5am, so from about 5-7am there may be two different services running N/B from Chambers St to E 180 St. Also the is running N/B as a Dyre shuttle while trains are still running to Dyre. Guess people are used to this happening during the "transitional service period". MTA would rather run two different trains than run the to/from Bowling Green after 4am (like they used to do in 2011) Edited June 16, 2019 by GreatOne2k 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted June 17, 2019 Share #21517 Posted June 17, 2019 26 minutes ago, GreatOne2k said: MTA already does this sometimes on Monday mornings after a Clark Street Tunnel shutdown. service runs Flatbush - 241, but there are still trains running South Ferry - Dyre after 5am, so from about 5-7am there may be two different services running N/B from Chambers St to E 180 St. Also the is running N/B as a Dyre shuttle while trains are still running to Dyre. Guess people are used to this happening during the "transitional service period". MTA would rather run two different trains than run the to/from Bowling Green after 4am (like they used to do in 2011) That still doesn't address the main issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union Tpke Posted June 17, 2019 Share #21518 Posted June 17, 2019 Other than sometimes thinking the location you input is in New Jersey, TripPlanner usually works. However, sometimes hilarious routings come up: Thanks TripPlanner! by Union Turnpike, on Flickr Thanks TripPlanner! by Union Turnpike, on Flickr Tour of Brooklyn. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biGC323232 Posted June 17, 2019 Share #21519 Posted June 17, 2019 This question is for my Bronx experts...VG8 in particular cause he lives in riverdale....I gotta go visit a friend at Methodist Home in Riverdale...How far is that from the train after you get off... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union Tpke Posted June 17, 2019 Share #21520 Posted June 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, biGC323232 said: This question is for my Bronx experts...VG8 in particular cause he lives in riverdale....I gotta go visit a friend at Methodist Home in Riverdale...How far is that from the train after you get off... https://goo.gl/maps/zMd4Jp64DAsX29aX9 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italianstallion Posted June 17, 2019 Share #21521 Posted June 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Union Tpke said: https://goo.gl/maps/zMd4Jp64DAsX29aX9 It's right up the hill from the 1 train stop at 242nd, like a 3 block walk. It should not take as long as the 9 minutes shown on Google Maps. And DO NOT take the shorter solid-line route -- that meanders through the Manhattan College campus, requires a steep staircase, and you may be stopped by security. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italianstallion Posted June 17, 2019 Share #21522 Posted June 17, 2019 1 hour ago, biGC323232 said: This question is for my Bronx experts...VG8 in particular cause he lives in riverdale....I gotta go visit a friend at Methodist Home in Riverdale...How far is that from the train after you get off... It's right up the hill from the 1 train stop at 242nd, like a 3 block walk. It should not take as long as the 9 minutes shown on Google Maps. And DO NOT take the shorter solid-line route shown on Google Maps -- that meanders through the Manhattan College campus, requires a steep staircase, and you may be stopped by security. Just go straight up 242 St and Manhattan College Parkway. (I live about half-mile away.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted June 17, 2019 Share #21523 Posted June 17, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Italianstallion said: It's right up the hill from the 1 train stop at 242nd, like a 3 block walk. It should not take as long as the 9 minutes shown on Google Maps. And DO NOT take the shorter solid-line route -- that meanders through the Manhattan College campus, requires a steep staircase, and you may be stopped by security. I think it would take about 9 minutes to be honest. If not 9 then at least 5 - 7 minutes. I don't see him doing it any faster. Remember it's all uphill. 2 hours ago, biGC323232 said: This question is for my Bronx experts...VG8 in particular cause he lives in riverdale....I gotta go visit a friend at Methodist Home in Riverdale...How far is that from the train after you get off... Yeah, I live in Riverdale, but closer to Henry Hudson Parkway, not by Broadway. However, when I need to get to 242nd, I come down Manhattan College Parkway eventually, key word being down lol. As @Italianstallion says, do NOT take take the route that goes through the Manhattan College campus. I have walked around over there and never had a problem, but I am used to the hills and you aren't, and you will be walking uphill the entire time, so you don't want to walk up all of those stairs to be told you can't go that way, because you'll have to go down at least part of the way and then come up again via the hills, as Manhattan College Parkway is all uphill and it meanders. Just bring some water with you or good walking shoes because that up hill climb is no fun. I have done it to walk to my apartment which is about a 25 minute walk or so, and the only break I got was walking along Waldo, which is flat in parts, but other than that, everything is uphill!!! Now I live even further west and closer to Henry Hudson Parkway, so the walk would be even longer for me. Edited June 17, 2019 by Via Garibaldi 8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenSin Posted June 17, 2019 Share #21524 Posted June 17, 2019 11 hours ago, Union Tpke said: Other than sometimes thinking the location you input is in New Jersey, TripPlanner usually works. However, sometimes hilarious routings come up: Thanks TripPlanner! by Union Turnpike, on Flickr Thanks TripPlanner! by Union Turnpike, on Flickr Tour of Brooklyn. Worse, when you get out of the station on the northbound side, you are farther away than if you had exited from the southbound side. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biGC323232 Posted June 17, 2019 Share #21525 Posted June 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Italianstallion said: It's right up the hill from the 1 train stop at 242nd, like a 3 block walk. It should not take as long as the 9 minutes shown on Google Maps. And DO NOT take the shorter solid-line route shown on Google Maps -- that meanders through the Manhattan College campus, requires a steep staircase, and you may be stopped by security. Just go straight up 242 St and Manhattan College Parkway. (I live about half-mile away.) 2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said: I think it would take about 9 minutes to be honest. If not 9 then at least 5 - 7 minutes. I don't see him doing it any faster. Remember it's all uphill. Yeah, I live in Riverdale, but closer to Henry Hudson Parkway, not by Broadway. However, when I need to get to 242nd, I come down Manhattan College Parkway eventually, key word being down lol. As @Italianstallion says, do NOT take take the route that goes through the Manhattan College campus. I have walked around over there and never had a problem, but I am used to the hills and you aren't, and you will be walking uphill the entire time, so you don't want to walk up all of those stairs to be told you can't go that way, because you'll have to go down at least part of the way and then come up again via the hills, as Manhattan College Parkway is all uphill and it meanders. Just bring some water with you or good walking shoes because that up hill climb is no fun. I have done it to walk to my apartment which is about a 25 minute walk or so, and the only break I got was walking along Waldo, which is flat in parts, but other than that, everything is uphill!!! Now I live even further west and closer to Henry Hudson Parkway, so the walk would be even longer for me. Thanks alot for the info.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.