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EE Broadway Local

SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

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18 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

Absolutely 100% agree. Essex Street is a terrible terminal coming in from the east anyway.

Even Chambers Street is a better option. Everyone who needs the additional options gets shafted by having only the (F). Good forbid they also do those unidirectional reroutes of the (F) via Cranberry Street.

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4 hours ago, CenSin said:

Even Chambers Street is a better option. Everyone who needs the additional options gets shafted by having only the (F). Good forbid they also do those unidirectional reroutes of the (F) via Cranberry Street.

And unidirectional reroutes of the (A) and (C).

Despite me and @RR503 having that debate little while ago about weekend (M) service, I honestly still can’t see it being extended out to Midtown due to ongoing full closures of construction and/or work under traffic on other trunk lines that are not Queens Blvd. The only other way I could see weekend (M) service to/from Midtown is if CBTC finally comes into play across the whole system or if they limit the constant (A)(C)(F) Manhattan-Brooklyn reroutes. Can’t have the (A)(C)(F)(M) running on the same tracks between West 4 and Broadway-Lafayette.

I personally feel like the only reason why weekend (M) service short turns at Essex (outside of the 14th Street Tunnel shutdowns) is because it is not a Nassau Street Line train? Hence you see the heavier sort of crowding on uptown (F)  trains at Delancey-Essex lower level. But they really should sometime in the future if the (M) really can’t access 6th Avenue.

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34 minutes ago, Jemorie said:

I personally feel like the only reason why weekend (M) service short turns at Essex (outside of the 14th Street Tunnel shutdowns) is because it is not a Nassau Street Line train? Hence you see the heavier sort of crowding on uptown (F)  trains at Delancey-Essex lower level. But they really should sometime in the future if the (M) really can’t access 6th Avenue.

I mean, it’s not really a 2 Avenue route either, but it goes there anyway.

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31 minutes ago, CenSin said:

I mean, it’s not really a 2 Avenue route either, but it goes there anyway.

That’s not even what I meant though and you know that. The (M) turning at Chambers instead of Essex or be rerouted from Queens Blvd to SAS are two different things. Constant work under traffic every Saturday and Sunday limits the amount of trains per hour on any trunk line to as far as 15 or 18. That, in addition to what’s going on with the (L), is the only reason why the (M) is running to Midtown and the Upper East Side in the first place.

At least with Essex or Chambers, the (M) does not get in the way with the rerouted lines from their normal corridors, as I just mentioned earlier.

Edited by Jemorie
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1 hour ago, Jemorie said:

And unidirectional reroutes of the (A) and (C).

Despite me and @RR503 having that debate little while ago about weekend (M) service, I honestly still can’t see it being extended out to Midtown due to ongoing full closures of construction and/or work under traffic on other trunk lines that are not Queens Blvd. The only other way I could see weekend (M) service to/from Midtown is if CBTC finally comes into play across the whole system or if they limit the constant (A)(C)(F) Manhattan-Brooklyn reroutes. Can’t have the (A)(C)(F)(M) running on the same tracks between West 4 and Broadway-Lafayette.

I personally feel like the only reason why weekend (M) service short turns at Essex (outside of the 14th Street Tunnel shutdowns) is because it is not a Nassau Street Line train? Hence you see the heavier sort of crowding on uptown (F)  trains at Delancey-Essex lower level. But they really should sometime in the future if the (M) really can’t access 6th Avenue.

You could _concievably_ cram (A)(C)(E)(F)(M) onto one track if you did 6+5+5+5+5 with zero flagging on 6th, but that would require a level of operational competence at West 4th and 34th that simply does not exist today. Whether or not we can expect many of those 8th-via-6th GOs in the coming years boils down to how NYCT plans to phase 8th CBTC -- ie whether or not they want to go the full shutdown route or the express/local GO route -- but given budgetary issues, I think a more realistic alternative to (M) to 96 or to Queens Plaza is just extending it to Chambers. Its Essex terminal is garbage for connectivity, and Chambers really shouldn't be that much of a cost. 

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9 minutes ago, RR503 said:

Whether or not we can expect many of those 8th-via-6th GOs in the coming years boils down to how NYCT plans to phase 8th CBTC -- ie whether or not they want to go the full shutdown route or the express/local GO route

I would hope they shut down the express tracks for X number of weekends needed with the (A)(C)(E) all on the local, phase those in and then shut down the local tracks for X number of weekends with the (A)(C)(E) on the express (using the recently activated express tracks) and then phase in the local tracks when ready. 

I would also like to see the MTA expand the L Project Weekly newsletter concept to CBTC installs and other planned GO's. Instead of seemingly random closures and reroutes, explain that "X is happening so we can do Y and when we're finished, you'll end up with Z". 

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31 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

Instead of seemingly random closures and reroutes, explain that "X is happening so we can do Y and when we're finished, you'll end up with Z". 

Alas, I believe "seemingly" is doing a lotta work in that sentence. 

In all seriousness, though, I think what you propose makes much sense. Piecemeal work leads to disorganization which leads to inefficiency which leads to cost/schedule overruns. Pursuing a more concerted approach to GOs would do a lotta good. 

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1 hour ago, RR503 said:

You could _concievably_ cram (A)(C)(E)(F)(M) onto one track if you did 6+5+5+5+5 with zero flagging on 6th, but that would require a level of operational competence at West 4th and 34th that simply does not exist today. Whether or not we can expect many of those 8th-via-6th GOs in the coming years boils down to how NYCT plans to phase 8th CBTC -- ie whether or not they want to go the full shutdown route or the express/local GO route -- but given budgetary issues, I think a more realistic alternative to (M) to 96 or to Queens Plaza is just extending it to Chambers. Its Essex terminal is garbage for connectivity, and Chambers really shouldn't be that much of a cost. 

At least for 6th Avenue CBTC, you already have the framework for the reroutes in place:

All weekends during 6th Ave installation:

(D)(F) route swap in Brooklyn and reroute in Manhattan

(D) via 8 Av Express to Jay St Metrotech, then via Culver (F) to Stillwell Av

(F) via Broadway / 4 Av Express & Manhattan Bridge, then via West End (D) to Stillwell Av

(M) to Chambers all weekends to preserve a connection between the (M) and the main-line (non Eastern-Division)

(N) via Whitehall St / 4 Av local all weekends

 

For 8th Ave CBTC, you could do (for all weekends):

(A)(C) via the (D) from 59 St-Columbus Circle to 34 St-Herald Square, then via the (F) to Jay St-MetroTech

(E) via the (R) between Queens Plaza and Whitehall St (or (E) suspended and the (R) extended east of 71 Av + overnight service)

*If the (E) is not suspended, then the late night (R) will end at Atlantic Av-Barclays Center or the (E) will end at Canal St, to not overtax Whitehall St with trains coming from both directions using the single middle track.

 

OR

 

(A)  - Same reroute as above / (C) train suspended

(E) - via 63 St / 6 Av (or 53 St / 6 Av) to/from 2 Av

(F) - rerouted via Broadway / 4 Av Express and West End

(D) rerouted from West 4 St to Stillwell Av via the (F) line.

(N) via Lower Manhattan / 4 Av local

 

 

For Broadway CBTC (first phase from Astoria-Ditmars Blvd to 57 St-7 Av), weekend work can be structured as follows:

cut (N) back to Times Square (and run maybe Broadway Express all times except late nights)

* No service between Times Square and Ditmars Blvd

(Q)  via Broadway Local / Manhattan Bridge

(R) rerouted via 63 St from 57 St-7 Av to 36 St (Queens)

 

Broadway can also be done from south of 34 St doing a full shutdown as follows:

(Q) via 6 Av Express

(N) in 2 sections:

1. Astoria-Ditmars Blvd to 34 St (49 St gets skipped northbound due to switch configuration)

2. Court St to Stillwell Av (via 4 Av local)

(R) via 6 Av

Edited by darkstar8983
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13 minutes ago, RR503 said:

Alas, I believe "seemingly" is doing a lotta work in that sentence. 

In all seriousness, though, I think what you propose makes much sense. Piecemeal work leads to disorganization which leads to inefficiency which leads to cost/schedule overruns. Pursuing a more concerted approach to GOs would do a lotta good. 

Gets the work done faster too, whether they be several months-long closures or a several years-long closures. This way, full regular service can be run normally for a long while.

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Expect longer waits for A trains in both directions after we removed trains from service at Lefferts Blvd and Far Rockaway-Mott Av.

Posted: 12/13/19 7:42 AM

Wow! What are the odds?

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27 minutes ago, CenSin said:

Wow! What are the odds?

Well, this morning's sure turning out to be fun, isn't it? Especially with this:

Quote

Delays  Posted: 12/13/2019  8:19AM

Expect longer waits for northbound (C) trains after we removed a train from service at Euclid Av.

 

Edited by Lex

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2 hours ago, danielhg121 said:

I don't understand what's going on here. Is it like R179's are being taken out of service?

 

One R46 was taken out of service from Far Rockaway at around 7:10-ish (I forgot tbh) and ran lite northbound to wherever they sent it to, presumably Pitkin Yard. The Far Rockaway R179 sets were running fine.

Edited by Jemorie

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JWRa8M3.jpg

 

 

Was lucky to bump into R68 2755 which still as its factory delivered number plates. This car got into an accident with a flatbed car IIRC and was sidelined for quite some time before returning to service.

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The MTA should REALLY Consider sending those Times Square (3) trains to 34th Street. My (2) got stuck behind one at Times Square for 20 something minutes because someone refused to detrain. RCC does nothing as usual. Its really starting to become an issue, especially now with the 3 being cut back an hour earlier. 

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1 hour ago, Calvin said:

There's a big piece of paper on the R46 that states "No R46s are allowed on the C line service"

LOL why? This seems out of the blue especially when they added 46’s then took them off and occasionally one may pop up there.

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2 hours ago, Calvin said:

There's a big piece of paper on the R46 that states "No R46s are allowed on the C line service"

You sure?

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I was shown a GIF of an explosion at what appears to be on an elevated track structure. The explosion appears to have reached the street level. From another shot from the vantage point of a station platform, I identified it as looking like the eastern end of Mets–Willets Point. I could be wrong about the station though. But I can’t find it on the news anywhere.

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11 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

Was lucky to bump into R68 2755 which still as its factory delivered number plates. This car got into an accident with a flatbed car IIRC and was sidelined for quite some time before returning to service.

Nah, the number plates you see on R68s and R68As are the factory delivered ones. After the accident that car lost its plate, so the TA made up a new one using stickers (the same types they used to cover R10 plates, work cars, etc.). That's why it looks so beat – porcelain ages better than that.

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10 hours ago, subway4832 said:

The MTA should REALLY Consider sending those Times Square (3) trains to 34th Street. My (2) got stuck behind one at Times Square for 20 something minutes because someone refused to detrain. RCC does nothing as usual. Its really starting to become an issue, especially now with the 3 being cut back an hour earlier. 

Agreed. Riders like myself would appreciate the connection to the express from the LIRR during the evenings/late nights. 

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On 12/13/2019 at 10:09 PM, trainfan22 said:

JWRa8M3.jpg

 

 

Was lucky to bump into R68 2755 which still as its factory delivered number plates. This car got into an accident with a flatbed car IIRC and was sidelined for quite some time before returning to service.

It's been there for years, why haven't they changed it?

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