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15 hours ago, Collin said:

The last time (1) to New Lots happened was post 9/11 when the line south of Chambers Street was damaged.  

There were a couple of (1) trains that made it to Brooklyn in 2013-2016

Edited by VIP
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Gonna reiterate, my ass is not going out there, but pretty unusual seeing a (1) to New Lots with R62A (3) service. We've had 62s on the (1), 62s and 62As on the (2), but I don't think there've been 62As on the (3) since Livonia had their fleet. Shame the rollsigns have been mostly replaced with the new ones, cause otherwise you'd have had a hard time telling things apart from the 90s/00s, especially since New Lots looks almost exactly as it did in 1985.

Edited by MHV9218
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1 hour ago, MHV9218 said:

Gonna reiterate, my ass is not going out there, but pretty unusual seeing a (1) to New Lots with R62A (3) service. We've had 62s on the (1), 62s and 62As on the (2), but I don't think there've been 62As on the (3) since Livonia had their fleet. Shame the rollsigns have been mostly replaced with the new ones, cause otherwise you'd have had a hard time telling things apart from the 90s/00s, especially since New Lots looks almost exactly as it did in 1985.

R62A's were common on the (3) train beginning in the mid eighties. Before that, it used pre General Overhaul Program R33WH and R36WH with the (1) train. There were also R36WF in WH sets from 9478 to 9523 that were used for the (3) train with the (1) train. It was associated with the middle series fleet that was first numbered from 1910 to 2159 with the (1) train operating 2160 to 2475 in the higher series. In January of 1989, it changed again with the (3) train operating 1930 to 2169 as the middle series and the (1) train operating 2170 to 2475 as the higher series. With the five car linkup that occurred from around 1997 to 1999, it was finalized as 1901 to 2155 (except for 1909 that was destroyed by a derailment while serving the Pelham Bay Park (6) Local south of Hunts Point Avenue) for the (3) train as middle series singles shared with the 42 Street (S) and 2156 to 2475 as five car higher series sets for the (1) train.

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19 minutes ago, Calvin said:

Just wondering: Was the Flushing (7) line first 10-cars per train? When did 11 cars start to occur?

10-cars until the '64 World's Fair with the arrival of the 33WFs and the 36WFs. I'm not sure how many years it took for the transition–it's possible the R15s and briefly R17s/R29s in use were combined with singles, or that the switch only began once the full fleet was in place.

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So occasionally - like at Astor Place, you see yellow signs saying something like “Off-Peak trains stop here”.

After platform lengthening finished, were train lengths not always 10 cars (or 8 for 75 footers) - excluding shuttles and the 9 car (3) train? And at that sign, what stopped there - the operators cab, the conductor’s cab, or was that where the last car of the train platformed?

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I think they used to run shorter trains on many lines during late night hours.  They still do on the (5) and (A) late night shuttles which makes sense since they're OPTO.  Otherwise, the only trains that are significantly shorter than the platform are the 480 foot (C) trains, 300 foot (G) and Rockaway (S) trains, and the 480 foot (M) trains when operating along the IND portion of the route.

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3 hours ago, 4 via Mosholu said:

R62A's were common on the (3) train beginning in the mid eighties. Before that, it used pre General Overhaul Program R33WH and R36WH with the (1) train. There were also R36WF in WH sets from 9478 to 9523 that were used for the (3) train with the (1) train. It was associated with the middle series fleet that was first numbered from 1910 to 2159 with the (1) train operating 2160 to 2475 in the higher series. In January of 1989, it changed again with the (3) train operating 1930 to 2169 as the middle series and the (1) train operating 2170 to 2475 as the higher series. With the five car linkup that occurred from around 1997 to 1999, it was finalized as 1901 to 2155 (except for 1909 that was destroyed by a derailment while serving the Pelham Bay Park (6) Local south of Hunts Point Avenue) for the (3) train as middle series singles shared with the 42 Street (S) and 2156 to 2475 as five car higher series sets for the (1) train.

It wasn't all R33/36, though; the (3) also used some R12/14s, and R15s in the late '70s/early '80s.  After those classes retired, it shifted to R17s and R21/22s in the mid-'80s before moving to R62As ('86-'87 I think?).  The single units were needed to make 9-car trains.  After the late '80s it was likely all R62A through the 1990s- never heard of nor saw any redbirds show up on it.

2 hours ago, Collin said:

Why was the (3) only 9 cars for so long?

 

2 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Low car availability and ridership didn’t need 10-car trains

An employee explained it a while back; something to do with Lenox Yard trackage/capacity and/or the station platform there I believe.

46 minutes ago, Collin said:

I think they used to run shorter trains on many lines during late night hours.  They still do on the (5) and (A) late night shuttles which makes sense since they're OPTO.  Otherwise, the only trains that are significantly shorter than the platform are the 480 foot (C) trains, 300 foot (G) and Rockaway (S) trains, and the 480 foot (M) trains when operating along the IND portion of the route.

Shorter trains came in after New York's fiscal crisis in 1975.  Many trains on various routes were reduced in length (8 cars, 6, in some cases 4) during mid-day, late-night hours and weekends.  By 1985, though, most of the trains had been restored to normal lengths.  Most of the "off-hours" signs that are still around came in around the late '80s/early '90s.  At that point it wasn't about length anymore; this was the height of the crack epidemic and crime was a major issue- the TA was trying to encourage people traveling during late nights to congregate around the middle of the platform for safety reasons (close to conductor or station agent?).  Crack eventually passed, crime went down, but the signs stayed up.

Edited by R10 2952
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The lack of police presence/ridership is starting to be felt: last night on the way home the (7) pulls into 52nd st and the Flushing-bound side is b.o.m.b.e.d with graff. Like cicra 1982 style. People can scream "broken windows/guiliani lover" but I bet dollars to donuts this plays into what happened at 110st (2)(3) the other day. No cops, No riders, No rules. 

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19 minutes ago, shiznit1987 said:

The lack of police presence/ridership is starting to be felt: last night on the way home the (7) pulls into 52nd st and the Flushing-bound side is b.o.m.b.e.d with graff. Like cicra 1982 style. People can scream "broken windows/guiliani lover" but I bet dollars to donuts this plays into what happened at 110st (2)(3) the other day. No cops, No riders, No rules. 

110 St Usually has police in the station as do most stations in the area. People are always going to commit a crime. You put more cops in stations located in Harlem, the Bronx, Midtown and East New York, you neglect all the other places. Police Presence doesn't STOP crimes, it just deters them to another place. 

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1 hour ago, darkstar8983 said:

Low car availability and ridership didn’t need 10-car trains

It was the '83 Midwood and East New York swap that caused the (3) train to operate nine cars. This nine car role was initially given to the (2) train to do, since it ran to New Lots Avenue and the (3) train ran ten cars to the Bush. The factors behind this swap include the fact that the Bush was a dead end terminal, and Lenox Yard did not have enough space to be a primary yard. In addition, it's only access to a primary yard was either through Van Cortlandt or Wakefield Yards. Ridership would have necessitated ten cars on the (3) train, but the tracks and signal positions at Lenox Yard and 148 Street - Lenox Terminal were only long enough to support nine car consists.

9/11 was the reason why ten car consists were finally put into service on the (3) train; it would have been done with the R142 entering service on the (3) train in time, but had to be pushed up by around the 12. As part of the change in plans, the R62 cars from the (4) train were sent over to Lenox beginning around 2004 - with the remaining ones sent over to Lenox in 2008 or 09. The (3) train switched storage yards during the period it traveled to 14 Street, having it north of 137 Street - City College, since Lenox Yard was being reconfigured to support ten cars with a signal realignment project in the days after the attacks. Once that was fully done, the (3) train returned to Lenox and East New York,

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3 hours ago, Deucey said:

So occasionally - like at Astor Place, you see yellow signs saying something like “Off-Peak trains stop here”.

After platform lengthening finished, were train lengths not always 10 cars (or 8 for 75 footers) - excluding shuttles and the 9 car (3) train? And at that sign, what stopped there - the operators cab, the conductor’s cab, or was that where the last car of the train platformed?

By the way, those Astor signs have been covered up completely, and a lot of stations are having those signs removed. I forget the exact article, but there's a clipping about the year those signs first showed up. I believe they were installed from 1982-1987. Technically, the distinction is partly in the phrasing. A lot of those signs, like the one at Astor, said "Off Hours Boarding Area," since by the time they were installed it wasn't always about shorter trains, but more about keeping a well-lit section of the station within view of the token clerk. Then you had a separate variety (which, by the font, are probably newer, from 1988 or so) that said "During off-hours trains stop here." That was for shorter overnight consists, but I think that was a lot less common. Good question on which part of the train lined up.

1 hour ago, shiznit1987 said:

The lack of police presence/ridership is starting to be felt: last night on the way home the (7) pulls into 52nd st and the Flushing-bound side is b.o.m.b.e.d with graff. Like cicra 1982 style. People can scream "broken windows/guiliani lover" but I bet dollars to donuts this plays into what happened at 110st (2)(3) the other day. No cops, No riders, No rules. 

I heard about the 52nd St. hit. I'd be curious to see, except I'm not getting on a train for no good reason. I do think that a version of this is gonna happen – there's nobody out there.

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22 minutes ago, MHV9218 said:

By the way, those Astor signs have been covered up completely, and a lot of stations are having those signs removed. I forget the exact article, but there's a clipping about the year those signs first showed up. I believe they were installed from 1982-1987. Technically, the distinction is partly in the phrasing. A lot of those signs, like the one at Astor, said "Off Hours Boarding Area," since by the time they were installed it wasn't always about shorter trains, but more about keeping a well-lit section of the station within view of the token clerk. Then you had a separate variety (which, by the font, are probably newer, from 1988 or so) that said "During off-hours trains stop here." That was for shorter overnight consists, but I think that was a lot less common. Good question on which part of the train lined up.

So there never was a time where (NYCT) operated like BART or WMATA where there could be 10, 6, and 8 car (6)<6> trains showing up in succession, or overnights with 6 car trains to save money?

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1 minute ago, Deucey said:

So there never was a time where (NYCT) operated like BART or WMATA where there could be 10, 6, and 8 car (6)<6> trains showing up in succession, or overnights with 6 car trains to save money?

Oh there definitely was a time with different length consists based on the time of day, but--and others will know this better than I do--I think that was mainly a practice that lasted into the 70s or so. I know the :6: was running half-length overnight through the 70s, probably the same on a number of other lines. And even more extreme would have been the BMT running different length consists for midday, rush hour, and overnight way back in the early days. The yellow signs from the 80s though are mainly about boarding, in terms of safety on the platform.

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4 hours ago, Theli11 said:

People are always going to commit a crime. You put more cops in stations located in Harlem, the Bronx, Midtown and East New York, you neglect all the other places. Police Presence doesn't STOP crimes, it just deters them to another place. 

Interesting view… so some neighborhoods have high crime precisely because police are not present? Would that have anything to do with bad neighborhoods staying bad because police forces prefer not to be around?

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