SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[R68OnBroadway]

Does it make sense operationally to swap the  and  terminals in Queens?

[NewFlyer 230]

3 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said:

Does it make sense operationally to swap the  and  terminals in Queens?

The reason why the  and  run the way they do is because of points of interest. The  was chosen to run via Archer over the  because it hit the Port Authority bus terminal, Madison Square Garden, Penn Station, plus it’s a shorter route which means it not prone to as much reliability issues compared to the . I think 8th Ave has more ridership than 6th Ave so that could be as reason too.

 

 

[Deucey]

1 hour ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

With a merge between the  and the  at DeKalb and a merge between the  and  between DeKalb and Pacific (Atlantic-Barclays)? 

If you were replying to me,  could either do the late night local merge at DeKalb and run local to 95th St, or do the merge/swap with  at 36th St.

[Collin]

21 minutes ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

The reason why the  and  run the way they do is because of points of interest. The  was chosen to run via Archer over the  because it hit the Port Authority bus terminal, Madison Square Garden, Penn Station, plus it’s a shorter route which means it not prone to as much reliability issues compared to the . I think 8th Ave has more ridership than 6th Ave so that could be as reason too.

 

 

So Archer was considered the more desirable terminal when compared to 179th Street.  Does that have something to do with the airport being off of Archer?

[Union Tpke]

4 hours ago, Collin said:

So Archer was considered the more desirable terminal when compared to 179th Street.  Does that have something to do with the airport being off of Archer?

This is what I added to Wikipedia after looking at the "Archer Avenue Corridor Transit Service Proposal" document from Operations Planning:

It was decided that the E would serve Archer Avenue, rather than the F, to minimize disruption to passengers who continued to use Hillside Avenue; to maximize Jamaica Avenue ridership; and to take advantage of the length of the peak ridership period, which is longer on the F. It was found that most riders using bus routes that now served Archer Avenue used the E, while most passengers on buses to 179th Street used the F

[T to Dyre Avenue]

11 hours ago, Deucey said:

Or  Bronx to Bay Ridge

 between 96th/UES to Coney Island via West End

 - Whitehall to 71st/Continental or Parsons 

I was. I didn’t quote your post because it was the last one in the thread. I guess I should have anyway. For the  and , you probably would have to swap their Brooklyn routes for this to work. Would the  still run via the tunnel or would it skip DeKalb and run over the bridge? Bridge would mean the  would have to run express in Manhattan, so what replaces the  in the Montague Tunnel and as the Broadway Local? 

8 hours ago, R68OnBroadway said:

Does it make sense operationally to swap the  and  terminals in Queens?

Only if it’s an uneven swap, i.e., 18  and 12  (the reverse of the pre-2002  split). Or 12  and 6  tph to 179 and the remaining 12  tph to Parsons/Archer. 

Edited May 5, 2020 by T to Dyre Avenue

[Around the Horn]

11 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

With a merge between the  and the  at DeKalb and a merge between the  and  between DeKalb and Pacific (Atlantic-Barclays)? 

There are provisions for crossovers in the tunnel between 36th and 45th Streets. The  and  can remain as they are until 36th Street with the  taking the new switch to the local track and the  going up the ramp.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

9 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

There are provisions for crossovers in the tunnel between 36th and 45th Streets. The  and  can remain as they are until 36th Street with the  taking the new switch to the local track and the  going up the ramp.

So then the  would be the local north of 36th Street and the  would be the local south of 36th? 

Why not have the  be the local to 36th and go up the ramp to the West End Line and have the  and  make all stops to 59th? But instead of taking a new switch, why not have the  and  stay on the express track and extend the platforms at 45th and 53rd over the existing local tracks, so the  and  can stop at those stations, then go their separate ways after 59th using the switches there?

Edited May 5, 2020 by T to Dyre Avenue

[4 via Mosholu]

2 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

So then the  would be the local north of 36th Street and the  would be the local south of 36th? 

Why not have the  be the local to 36th and go up the ramp to the West End Line and have the  and  make all stops to 59th? But instead of taking a new switch, why not have the  and  stay on the express track and extend the platforms at 45th and 53rd over the existing local tracks, so the  and  can stop at those stations, then go their separate ways after 59th using the switches there?

45 and 53 never had a provision for them to become express stops, so the train and the train would have to switch over north of 36 Street.

[Calvin]

Last midnight train schedules on all subway lines. Then starts resuming service after 5 AM.

Expect trains at certain stops as the last stop minutes before 1 AM, the deadline time. 

https://new.mta.info/coronavirus/overnight?fbclid=IwAR3AGPapTAwdNgDScCuyypIp8rGnpeerRnu3_ZfG31qtCn4jQzWkT40741k

Edited May 6, 2020 by Calvin

[Union Tpke]

Stringline_Northbound_E_Train_4Hours_5-6-2020_4-53-21-AM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

[mrsman]

10 hours ago, 4 via Mosholu said:

45 and 53 never had a provision for them to become express stops, so the train and the train would have to switch over north of 36 Street.

I think the idea is that a platform extension would be built by blocking the local tracks.  south of the point where West End diverges from the 4th Ave tracks, you put in bumpers so that no trains can continue on the local tracks (ever, even out of service).  [Bumpers would also be put on the local tracks north of the switches at 59th.]  Then, the service on and   will continue along the express tracks, which will be the only tracks in service.  Extending the platforms of 45 and 53 over the local tracks would essentially create an express stop at those stations.

Obviously, by doing so, you basically have to give up on ever using that section of local tracks for service.  It would seem that the platform extension is semi-permanent and would have to be left in place for long periods of time as it would be too time consuming to do this for rush hour service, yet leave in place the local tracks for off-peak runs.  You also have to buy in to the service pattern of sending 4th Ave expresses to Bay Ridge/Sea Beach and 4th Ave locals to West End.  But it's true that if you did so, you would eliminate all merging at 36 street and provide a yard for all the services.  Astoria-Broadway local - 4th Ave local trains will now go to Coney Island via West End.  Bay Ridge trains will now have access to the Concourse Yard.

I have seen similar ideas to build platform extensions at the 50th Street station on the  as part of a deinterlining plan.  Basically, if all the 8th Ave locals go to Queens along the  and all the CPW locals go to 6th Ave, there will be no trains on the local tracks at the 50th street station.  By blocking the local tracks, we can have the express  and  trains have access to the platforms there and create an express stop.  I see more problems with this, because in the middle of Midtown, you never know when you would need to have access to the local tracks for an emergency re-route, like if there is a problem on the 6th Ave tracks.  It would probably be less of a problem to do this in southern Brooklyn.

 

[R10 2952]

4th Avenue has its issues, but seems to me the easiest solution is to just have the and swap terminals.  As far as yard access, there's always 36th Street, which is planned to accommodate passenger-service trains in the near future, anyway.

[CenSin]

4 hours ago, mrsman said:

I think the idea is that a platform extension would be built by blocking the local tracks.  south of the point where West End diverges from the 4th Ave tracks, you put in bumpers so that no trains can continue on the local tracks (ever, even out of service).  [Bumpers would also be put on the local tracks north of the switches at 59th.]  Then, the service on and   will continue along the express tracks, which will be the only tracks in service.  Extending the platforms of 45 and 53 over the local tracks would essentially create an express stop at those stations.

Obviously, by doing so, you basically have to give up on ever using that section of local tracks for service.  It would seem that the platform extension is semi-permanent and would have to be left in place for long periods of time as it would be too time consuming to do this for rush hour service, yet leave in place the local tracks for off-peak runs.  You also have to buy in to the service pattern of sending 4th Ave expresses to Bay Ridge/Sea Beach and 4th Ave locals to West End.  But it's true that if you did so, you would eliminate all merging at 36 street and provide a yard for all the services.  Astoria-Broadway local - 4th Ave local trains will now go to Coney Island via West End.  Bay Ridge trains will now have access to the Concourse Yard.

I have seen similar ideas to build platform extensions at the 50th Street station on the  as part of a deinterlining plan.  Basically, if all the 8th Ave locals go to Queens along the  and all the CPW locals go to 6th Ave, there will be no trains on the local tracks at the 50th street station.  By blocking the local tracks, we can have the express  and  trains have access to the platforms there and create an express stop.  I see more problems with this, because in the middle of Midtown, you never know when you would need to have access to the local tracks for an emergency re-route, like if there is a problem on the 6th Ave tracks.  It would probably be less of a problem to do this in southern Brooklyn.

 

How is that better than just building the switches south of 36 Street? Building out platforms seems like a monumental task and a loss of flexibility to accommodate a service pattern whereas building the switches increases flexibility.

[Deucey]

On 5/5/2020 at 8:27 AM, T to Dyre Avenue said:

I was. I didn’t quote your post because it was the last one in the thread. I guess I should have anyway. For the  and , you probably would have to swap their Brooklyn routes for this to work. Would the  still run via the tunnel or would it skip DeKalb and run over the bridge? Bridge would mean the  would have to run express in Manhattan, so what replaces the  in the Montague Tunnel and as the Broadway Local? 

 

 via Tunnel;  via bridge - same pattern as when all 4th ave trains run local except  switches to the express track before 36th St like  local does.

[mrsman]

4 hours ago, CenSin said:

How is that better than just building the switches south of 36 Street? Building out platforms seems like a monumental task and a loss of flexibility to accommodate a service pattern whereas building the switches increases flexibility.

I agree with your position, I was just explaining how a platform extension would be used instead of a switch.

If new switches were built, this could be an interesting pattern.  

 from 6th Ave express tracks, along the 4th Ave express tracks, then switching to the local on new switches after 36 St to Bay Ridge.

 2 Ave - Broadway express, 4th Ave express,  then switching to the local on new switches after 36 St to Sea Beach line to Coney Island.

 71/Continental - QBL local - Broadway local - 4th Ave local - West End line to Bay Parkway.

 Astoria - Broadway local - 4th Ave local - West End line to Coney Island.

Pushing the West End line trains to the local will probably not be very popular for West End riders, but at least we can provide them with a lot of service by running as many locals as possible down the line.  Since not all of the trains can turn back at CI, some of the locals will turn back at Bay Parkway.

[If one were also interested in untying the merges at DeKalb, I'd recommend a  /  swap here, so as to preserve the connection from Bay Ridge to the Concourse Yard.]

 

[B35 via Church]

On 5/6/2020 at 8:45 AM, mrsman said:

Extending the platforms of 45 and 53 over the local tracks would essentially create an express stop at those stations.

It would make express trains more local.... See how I nullified the term "essential" from looking at it from the opposing perspective?

It's like putting a traffic light in the middle of an expressway.... No thanks.

22 hours ago, mrsman said:

I agree with your position, I was just explaining how a platform extension would be used instead of a switch.

...but you see it as being "less of a problem to do this in southern Brooklyn."

On 5/6/2020 at 1:46 PM, CenSin said:

How is that better than just building the switches south of 36 Street? Building out platforms seems like a monumental task and a loss of flexibility to accommodate a service pattern whereas building the switches increases flexibility.

It isn't, and it's quite silly.

It'd be one thing if we were talking about building an overpass over a highway for ped's to get from one side to the other, but to suggest extending platforms over perfectly usable trackage to facilitate whatever number of riders, takes the cake....

[B35 via Church]

Forwarded from a post in the bus section:

 

Y'all subway guys can have some fun with this one !

[vioreen]

The U-shape platforms in Flatbush Avenue–Brooklyn College (2/5 line) station needs to be replaced with an Island Platform.

[shiznit1987]

Lemme ask the billion dollar question: 

Now that we've had a couple nights of this shutdown, are you noticing less homeless on the trains? 

[Lex]

34 minutes ago, vioreen said:

The U-shape platforms in Flatbush Avenue–Brooklyn College (2/5 line) station needs to be replaced with an Island Platform.

That's not happening, nor would it be necessary in the (extremely unlikely) event the line is extended.

[Around the Horn]

16 minutes ago, shiznit1987 said:

Lemme ask the billion dollar question: 

Now that we've had a couple nights of this shutdown, are you noticing less homeless on the trains? 

I'll up the ante and ask the trillion dollar question:

How many homeless people have moved from the subways to the buses?

[vioreen]

I noticed it today ans its interesting

[Yankees4life]

20 hours ago, vioreen said:

The U-shape platforms in Flatbush Avenue–Brooklyn College (2/5 line) station needs to be replaced with an Island Platform.

Yeah...that's not happening. Theres no room for that in Junction. Trust me.

[Collin]

I know the 42nd Street Shuttle reconstruction is supposed convert it from 3 tracks to 2 tracks, but I was thinking that if track 2 were restored to service and track 3 kept in service, it would be possible to run up to 4 trains.  They would load at each end simultaneously then meet in the middle.