SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[Collin]

There was a 90's plan that would've had all Dyre Ave trains run local from 3rd Avenue 149th Street to East 180th Street.  All  trains and  trains to Nereid would run express.  The way the flyovers north of East 180th Street are designed, it would be more efficient.  Local stations between 3rd Avenue 149th Street and East 180th Street would've had their rush hour service cut from 12 tph to 7 tph, but when residents were polled they said they would have preferred to have Lexington Avenue service over 7th Avenue.  For some reason, there was community opposition, I'm guessing from Dyre Avenue customers who would've lost express service.

[R10 2952]

Been thinking about how the TA decided to close the southern half of the Myrtle El as well as the Culver Shuttle, back in the day.  Weren't passengers opposed to these closures? @Trainmaster5 do you recall what the story was back then? I'm guessing it was a money thing.

[Trainmaster5]

53 minutes ago, R10 2952 said:

Been thinking about how the TA decided to close the southern half of the Myrtle El as well as the Culver Shuttle, back in the day.  Weren't passengers opposed to these closures? @Trainmaster5 do you recall what the story was back then? I'm guessing it was a money thing.

The Myrtle was all about the Benjamins. The structure south of Broadway wasn't built to handle the modern steel equipment.  That's why the BMT Standards were only used north of the Broadway-Myrtle .station . The Culver shuttle only used one of the three tracks between Ditmas and Ninth Avenue. The stations were in extremely poor shape when I was a RR Porter in the late sixties and I guess the structure was too. Once the IND connection was made at Ditmas it's fate was sealed. Remember that back then el demolishing was in vogue. The TA always promised alternative solutions for the demolition but,  in my lifetime, those two as well as the Fulton and Lexington in Brooklyn,  the eastern Jamaica,  the Polo Grounds shuttle and the Third Avenue el in Manhattan and the Bronx are gone. The IND Fulton did replace it's BMT counterpart but the passenger's opposition was papered over with unkept promises for the most part and they ended up losing what little they had. That's my recollection and that's why I believe very little of the stats and promises coming from the . Carry on. 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Trainmaster5
Context

[MeeP15-9112]

Moving on to another topic...

Back in the 90s when the  began linking the R62As into 5-car sets, which cars were kept as singles? 

Also, when the  was doing this, they removed the rollsigns from the non-leading cars (any car whose number doesnt end in a 1, 5, 6, or 0) as well as the #2 end of the leading cars. Are there any non-leading cars that still have their end rollsigns?

Edited May 11, 2020 by MeeP15-9112

[MHV9218]

2 minutes ago, MeeP15-9112 said:

Moving on to another topic...

Back in the 90s when the  began linking the R62As into 5-car sets, which cars were kept as singles? 

Also, when the  was doing this, they removed the rollsigns from the non-leading cars (any car whose number doesnt end in a 1, 5, 6, or 0) as well as the #2 end of the leading cars. Are there any non-leading cars that still have their end rollsigns?

1901-2155 stayed as singles. Those were the Livonia and ultimately Flushing cars. I think about a dozen of those cars remain as singles, as the shuttle cars and refuse cars, with the remainder as 3-car sets for the shuttle. Somebody else may have the exact number. The non-leading cars actually retain their original rollsigns, just under black paint on the bulkhead. Same with the R68/R68A class. Sometimes the paint wears and you can see the rollsign on there. Some of the later conversions to 5-car sets (the Flushing cars) still have rollsigns visible, like the cars linked in 2012 or so. There's a set in the 212x group, some of the 202x cars. Then the 19xx singles most recently linked (2018-2019) for Westchester Yard have visible rollsigns too.

[Jacob]

2 hours ago, Collin said:

There was a 90's plan that would've had all Dyre Ave trains run local from 3rd Avenue 149th Street to East 180th Street.  All  trains and  trains to Nereid would run express.  The way the flyovers north of East 180th Street are designed, it would be more efficient.  Local stations between 3rd Avenue 149th Street and East 180th Street would've had their rush hour service cut from 12 tph to 7 tph, but when residents were polled they said they would have preferred to have Lexington Avenue service over 7th Avenue.  For some reason, there was community opposition, I'm guessing from Dyre Avenue customers who would've lost express service.

It would be better that Nereid Avenue - 238th street bound  trains run express to 3rd Avenue - 149th Street to E 180th St And to Gun Hill Road and run via local to Nereid Avenue, Sounds Perfect? Instead of the  train being express, it can be local still. Welp that 90s plan should be better at planning but it never happened..

Edited May 11, 2020 by Jacob

[subway4832]

They're better off just ending those Nereid 's at Gun Hill Road (WPR). Half the time they don't even go to nereid anyway, and if they do, it causes such a massive conga line that they'll send it to 241st Street. 

[MysteriousBtrain]

Just to be clear, the ONLY WAY to make 145 St a 10 car station is to completely reconstruct the Lenox Avenue line between 135 St and 145 St. 

Take this screenshot for example. Since 135 St is a 3 track station the northbound track can go into a newly constructed section along the right of the current northbound track. Another southbound track could be constructed on the left. Both new "outer" tracks would be used by the and the current "inner" tracks would be served by the . The southern diamond crossover at 145 St would be taken out under this plan.

[Calvin]

3 hours ago, MHV9218 said:

1901-2155 stayed as singles. Those were the Livonia and ultimately Flushing cars. I think about a dozen of those cars remain as singles, as the shuttle cars and refuse cars, with the remainder as 3-car sets for the shuttle. Somebody else may have the exact number. The non-leading cars actually retain their original rollsigns, just under black paint on the bulkhead. Same with the R68/R68A class. Sometimes the paint wears and you can see the rollsign on there. Some of the later conversions to 5-car sets (the Flushing cars) still have rollsigns visible, like the cars linked in 2012 or so. There's a set in the 212x group, some of the 202x cars. Then the 19xx singles most recently linked (2018-2019) for Westchester Yard have visible rollsigns too.

If you mean as of now, the units are still known as single units were made into 5-cars but on one of the single units were converted to a cab-car:
* 1901-1902-1903-1904-1905,  1908, 1910,  1911-1912-1913-1914-1915,  1916-1917-1918-1919-1920,  1921, 1922, 1925,  1934-1924-1926-1938-1942

1943-1944-1947-1948-1949,  1931-1927-1923-1952-1940,  1954-1957-1958-1959-1960

* 1930/5/6, 1941, 1945/6, 1950/1/5/6 has full width cabs. 

- 1906 and 1907 are refuse collectors. 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Calvin

[MeeP15-9112]

2 hours ago, MHV9218 said:

...cars linked in 2012 or so. There's a set in the 212x group, some of the 202x cars. Then the 19xx singles most recently linked (2018-2019) for Westchester Yard have visible rollsigns too.

Wow. I never knew that cars were being linked as recently as last year.

So I’m assuming that the 2000-2155 block were linked in 2012, and the remaining 1900s were linked 2018-2019.

Its sad to see this operational flexibility go to waste though. Now if one car craps out, the entire 5 car set goes OOS instead of swapping singles.

[R68OnBroadway]

12 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Just to be clear, the ONLY WAY to make 145 St a 10 car station is to completely reconstruct the Lenox Avenue line between 135 St and 145 St. 

Take this screenshot for example. Since 135 St is a 3 track station the northbound track can go into a newly constructed section along the right of the current northbound track. Another southbound track could be constructed on the left. Both new "outer" tracks would be used by the and the current "inner" tracks would be served by the . The southern diamond crossover at 145 St would be taken out under this plan.

How much space is there on each end of the station before construction is required? Given that the R262s will have gangways, you could see how far you could extend the platforms and then have selective door opening so that all but a few cars platform at the station.

[Calvin]

You may not see the 42nd St Shuttle for a while, while passing through Grand Central and Times Square: closed gates. A document has mentioned that there will be a lot of track work on tracks 1, 3 and 4 from this project with service cancelled: Immediately. Alternative is the #7 train. 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Calvin

[R10 2952]

2 hours ago, MeeP15-9112 said:

Its sad to see this operational flexibility go to waste though. Now if one car craps out, the entire 5 car set goes OOS instead of swapping singles.

I agree that 4-5 car sets are a problem in that regard, but on the other hand, single units are too much of a hassle (parts, weight, maintenance).  Kawasaki and Bombardier did not have an easy time building the R62/As as single units; the shitty A/C on the R62As, for example, is the result of a weight and/or cost-saving measure.

I'm of the mind that 2-car married pairs offer a reasonable middle ground; MBTA, SEPTA, CTA, LA Metro, and many other operators have ordered married pairs long after NY stopped doing so- if it works for them, it should work for us.

[MeeP15-9112]

30 minutes ago, Calvin said:

You will not be seeing the 42nd St Shuttle for a long time (till the new year of 2021), or passing Grand Central and Times Square: closed gates. A document has mentioned that there will be a lot of track work on tracks 1, 3 and 4 from this project with service cancelled: Immediately. Alternative is the #7 train. 

What would the  do with the Livonia singles? Leave them in the yard to do nothing?

If I were the  I would take this downtime to:

1. Transfer the bunch to another yard (Westchester maybe- they have had a equipment shortage recently)

2. Make the handful of 19xx mismatched sets into consecutively numbered sets:

3 hours ago, Calvin said:

(CURRENT 19xx SET NUMBERS):

1921, 1922, 1925, 

1934-1924-1926-1938-1942

1943-1944-1947-1948-1949, 

1931-1927-1923-1952-1940, 

1954-1957-1958-1959-1960

(bold cars are full-width cabs)

I removed the new set arrangements after I realized that there are those 62A singles that were Cuomo’d (seats removed), and that they were meant for the shuttle.

Edited May 11, 2020 by MeeP15-9112

[Collin]

They must have extra seats somewhere to reinstall.  Put them back in, group the single cars into 5 car sets, and either run them out of Livonia on the or transfer them to Westchester Yard for  service.  Any leftover cars can be used for a garbage train.

[MeeP15-9112]

14 minutes ago, Collin said:

They must have extra seats somewhere to reinstall.  Put them back in, group the single cars into 5 car sets, and either run them out of Livonia on the or transfer them to Westchester Yard for  service.  Any leftover cars can be used for a garbage train.

What about after the construction and the shuttle reopens? There would be so much demand that those seatless cars would be needed back.

Edited May 12, 2020 by MeeP15-9112

[MHV9218]

6 hours ago, MeeP15-9112 said:

Wow. I never knew that cars were being linked as recently as last year.

So I’m assuming that the 2000-2155 block were linked in 2012, and the remaining 1900s were linked 2018-2019.

Its sad to see this operational flexibility go to waste though. Now if one car craps out, the entire 5 car set goes OOS instead of swapping singles.

1961-1999 were part of the 2012ish linking, but otherwise yeah, something like that. And as Calvin posted some of the most recent 19xx cars may actually just be coupled in order, not linked yet – have to check the couplers to confirm. I'm also in favor of keeping some singles, but there's definitely an argument to simplify and reduce part with linked sets. At least that's been their wisdom since the 80s.

[4 via Mosholu]

8 hours ago, Jacob said:

It would be better that Nereid Avenue - 238th street bound  trains run express to 3rd Avenue - 149th Street to E 180th St And to Gun Hill Road and run via local to Nereid Avenue, Sounds Perfect? Instead of the  train being express, it can be local still. Welp that 90s plan should be better at planning but it never happened..

They once ran the Bronx Park thru Express to East 241 Street, running express after East 180 Street to Gun Hill Road before sending it local to East 241 Street.

[4P3607]

So I'm at the Pat Dolan trail (Willow lake reserve) and the South end borders the Jamaica train yard. As I'm at the end of the path where it meets Jamaica yard I see at least 4 firetrucks show up racing to the other side of the yard. Hope everything is alright.

I believe the path is open 24/7 and it's a great place to go during this time (open space full of nature and not many people go here. Just make sure to enter on the Park Drive (Van Wyck) side unless you're willing to go through a very muddy trail from the Grand Central Pkwy side.

I got a pic of the last R46 set while it was still in the yard, now if I knew of a free image service to upload and share here I would post it. 

As I type this a 5th truck showed up. Yikes.

[Calvin]

55 minutes ago, 4P3607 said:

So I'm at the Pat Dolan trail (Willow lake reserve) and the South end borders the Jamaica train yard. As I'm at the end of the path where it meets Jamaica yard I see at least 4 firetrucks show up racing to the other side of the yard. Hope everything is alright.

I believe the path is open 24/7 and it's a great place to go during this time (open space full of nature and not many people go here. Just make sure to enter on the Park Drive (Van Wyck) side unless you're willing to go through a very muddy trail from the Grand Central Pkwy side.

I got a pic of the last R46 set while it was still in the yard, now if I knew of a free image service to upload and share here I would post it. 

As I type this a 5th truck showed up. Yikes.

You can use Flickr for that, if you don't have an account. You can upload photos /sign-up for free as the limit is 1,000. When sending the photo here, copy the link and paste it here. 

 

Foe example: I searched "pizza". Saw this awesome photo then go to BBCode, choose the size I like and copy/paste the link. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Calvin

[Union Tpke]

On 5/12/2020 at 4:07 PM, 4P3607 said:

So I'm at the Pat Dolan trail (Willow lake reserve) and the South end borders the Jamaica train yard. As I'm at the end of the path where it meets Jamaica yard I see at least 4 firetrucks show up racing to the other side of the yard. Hope everything is alright.

I believe the path is open 24/7 and it's a great place to go during this time (open space full of nature and not many people go here. Just make sure to enter on the Park Drive (Van Wyck) side unless you're willing to go through a very muddy trail from the Grand Central Pkwy side.

I got a pic of the last R46 set while it was still in the yard, now if I knew of a free image service to upload and share here I would post it. 

As I type this a 5th truck showed up. Yikes.

I have been on that trail. I have entered on the GCP side. You can get a great view of all the yard tracks by walking along the fence (within the park). I got a picture of an R42 with a broke window there a few years back.

[Calvin]

Q: What's the "Dolly Train" out of 207 St?

[MeeP15-9112]

1 hour ago, Calvin said:

Q: What's the "Dolly Train" out of 207 St?

A: Its a train that transports signals around the system thats based out of 207.

The “Signal Supply Car” itself a specialty car (contract R74) that carries signals based off of information from www.nycsubway.org. It has the H2C couplers, so it gets hauled around by SMEE equipment.

Whats unusual is that the dollies have third rail shoes, from which can be inferred that the dolly has motors, which is unlike any specialty work car.

Link to nycsubway page on Signal Dolly

Edited May 14, 2020 by MeeP15-9112
Description

[bwwnyc123]

Current Subway Lines and Car Assignments In Active Service:

R62A 

R142

R62

R142 & R142A

R142A/R188 

 

R46, R179

R68 

R160 

R68 & R68A 

R143/R160/R179 

R143/R160 

R160 

R46/R68 & R68A/R160

Franklin Av R68

Rockaway Park R46

 

Subway Lines Suspended Until Further Notice:

42 St

 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by bwwnyc123

[Jacob]

2 hours ago, bwwnyc123 said:

Current Subway Lines and Car Assignments In Active Service:

R62A 

R142

R62

R142 & R142A

R142A/R188 

 

R46, R179

R68 

R160 

R68 & R68A 

R143/R160/R179 

R143/R160 

R160 

R46/R68 & R68A/R160

Franklin Av R68

Rockaway Park R46

 

Subway Lines Suspended Until Further Notice:

42 St

 

 

About the  trains it’s not R142As Anymore they are R188s as a R142A Conversion.