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9 minutes ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Why do you think that it’s not R33 9306 ? Just curious.

Couple reasons – one, 9306 was removed from service in the mid-1970s to become Transit Museum Property, and that's why it wears its old interior and bluebird exterior. Don't think they ever would have moved it out of the museum fleet to paint in redbird colors in what looks to the-1980s. Second, that's an R21/R22 storm door and those are mainline, not World's Fair windows. Plus the photographer who took it says it's an R21, so deferring to him a little! 

But it is a mystery!

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50 minutes ago, MHV9218 said:

Couple reasons – one, 9306 was removed from service in the mid-1970s to become Transit Museum Property, and that's why it wears its old interior and bluebird exterior. Don't think they ever would have moved it out of the museum fleet to paint in redbird colors in what looks to the-1980s. Second, that's an R21/R22 storm door and those are mainline, not World's Fair windows. Plus the photographer who took it says it's an R21, so deferring to him a little! 

But it is a mystery!

Having worked Lenox as a C/R and then upfront the storm door had me confused. Back then the (3) had all types of equipment in service. We had cars where the cab doors opened “backwards” compared to the other SMEE cars. Nothing would surprise me but thanks for the history lesson. I’m usually the one giving them😃. Carry on.

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26 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

@Trainmaster5 Is it easy to overshoot Dyckman St (1) while going northbound? I've seen it happen a few times at that station. I thought that was an incline?

I’ve never heard of anyone overshooting Dyckman St. on the (1) in either direction. I would imagine that any problem at that station might have something to do with lighting and/or depth perception more than anything else. It’s possible to overshoot any station depending on knowledge of the equipment and the location. I remember following a (2) train and after stopping at 174St s/b it appeared that my leader overran Freeman. The T/O was a veteran as was the C/R. The train left Freeman and I pulled in. There was a TSS waiting at the 10 car marker and he was laughing when he got on my train. The R142 cars were new at the time and he was the one who had the overrun. That’s why no one called it in. I knew that he did it before he told me what happened. When he asked me how I knew I told him “ it’s 3:15 pm, broad daylight and the (2) wasn’t running 9 car trains “. I never let him operate my train for obvious reasons. Just to reiterate overshooting can happen to anyone and for a variety of reasons. A NTT operating behind the Sperry car is one of the least obvious reasons. That’s because the Sperry puts a fine mist on the running rails. Mott tower at 149th St would warn me personally that the Sperry was operating in front of my train and I knew to operate accordingly. I remember one night I was ahead of the Sperry and my follower wasn’t aware of the danger until he overshot Union Square. He, too, was a veteran but he had never encountered that situation before. To summarize anything can happen to anyone at any time. The rules state to have your train under control at all times. That’s why many of my RTO folks have little or no respect for the speed freak advocates who post. My school car instructors told us that NYCT was not the Indy 500. Carry on.

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1 hour ago, Trainmaster5 said:

I’ve never heard of anyone overshooting Dyckman St. on the (1) in either direction. I would imagine that any problem at that station might have something to do with lighting and/or depth perception more than anything else. It’s possible to overshoot any station depending on knowledge of the equipment and the location. I remember following a (2) train and after stopping at 174St s/b it appeared that my leader overran Freeman. The T/O was a veteran as was the C/R. The train left Freeman and I pulled in. There was a TSS waiting at the 10 car marker and he was laughing when he got on my train. The R142 cars were new at the time and he was the one who had the overrun. That’s why no one called it in. I knew that he did it before he told me what happened. When he asked me how I knew I told him “ it’s 3:15 pm, broad daylight and the (2) wasn’t running 9 car trains “. I never let him operate my train for obvious reasons. Just to reiterate overshooting can happen to anyone and for a variety of reasons. A NTT operating behind the Sperry car is one of the least obvious reasons. That’s because the Sperry puts a fine mist on the running rails. Mott tower at 149th St would warn me personally that the Sperry was operating in front of my train and I knew to operate accordingly. I remember one night I was ahead of the Sperry and my follower wasn’t aware of the danger until he overshot Union Square. He, too, was a veteran but he had never encountered that situation before. To summarize anything can happen to anyone at any time. The rules state to have your train under control at all times. That’s why many of my RTO folks have little or no respect for the speed freak advocates who post. My school car instructors told us that NYCT was not the Indy 500. Carry on.

So what happens on an overshoot - does it reverse into the station; open the doors that are on the platform, or just keep going to the next station?

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5 hours ago, MHV9218 said:

In case anybody wondered what a Redbird R21 would have looked like... Not a great paint job, but you get the idea. No service R21s or R22s were painted as a Redbirds, and only a couple dozen R17s were painted as redbirds.

And why it received the number of museum R33WF 9306, beyond me.

s-l1600.jpg

 

3 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Having worked Lenox as a C/R and then upfront the storm door had me confused. Back then the (3) had all types of equipment in service. We had cars where the cab doors opened “backwards” compared to the other SMEE cars. Nothing would surprise me but thanks for the history lesson. I’m usually the one giving them😃. Carry on.

Thanks for posting this; from nycsubway.org, this R21 was originally numbered 7261.  It was repainted red and sent to Corona Yard for storage or office space sometime in the early '90s it seems.  Prior to that, it was a garbage motor.  Sent to Bush Terminal and scrapped in 2002-03:

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?38111

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?40728

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?40730

It would have been interesting if the R21/22s had been kept around for GOH, but I guess them being single units made it unfeasible.  Funny how they repainted a few, there was also a green R21, supposedly a spare for that trainset of green R33s in the mid-'80s, but no photos of it anywhere.

 

Edited by R10 2952
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15 hours ago, Deucey said:

So what happens on an overshoot - does it reverse into the station; open the doors that are on the platform, or just keep going to the next station?

In my days we would open the doors that were on the platform . The conductor would open the rear section from their operating position while the M/M would key open the single door panels in the front section with the conductor’s help. Depending on the time of day and the location of the station this could be time consuming. When the job was completed the procedure would be reversed with the rear section closed by the conductor and the M/M- T/O keying closed the open door panels while returning to the operating car. Under no circumstances would a train be backed up or reversed into the station. Once everything is done the train can proceed . I have intentionally left out one step that my fellow RTO folks are aware of. I’ll let them add it if they think that it’s relevant. I know that you’ve been around and I think you can figure it out 😃. I will add that 14th St-Union Square southbound during the rush hour might make the RCC override the above process. Carry on.

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4 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

In my days we would open the doors that were on the platform . The conductor would open the rear section from their operating position while the M/M would key open the single door panels in the front section with the conductor’s help. Depending on the time of day and the location of the station this could be time consuming. When the job was completed the procedure would be reversed with the rear section closed by the conductor and the M/M- T/O keying closed the open door panels while returning to the operating car. Under no circumstances would a train be backed up or reversed into the station. Once everything is done the train can proceed . I have intentionally left out one step that my fellow RTO folks are aware of. I’ll let them add it if they think that it’s relevant. I know that you’ve been around and I think you can figure it out 😃. I will add that 14th St-Union Square southbound during the rush hour might make the RCC override the above process. Carry on.

Let me make it clear that I’m talking about the Lexington line at Union Square . (4)(5)(6) trains.

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4 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Let me make it clear that I’m talking about the Lexington line at Union Square . (4)(5)(6) trains.

That would make sense. I can't even begin to imagine the hell that would come from overshooting either of those platforms (with the southbound platform being far worse than the northbound).

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21 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

In my days we would open the doors that were on the platform . The conductor would open the rear section from their operating position while the M/M would key open the single door panels in the front section with the conductor’s help. Depending on the time of day and the location of the station this could be time consuming. When the job was completed the procedure would be reversed with the rear section closed by the conductor and the M/M- T/O keying closed the open door panels while returning to the operating car. Under no circumstances would a train be backed up or reversed into the station. Once everything is done the train can proceed . I have intentionally left out one step that my fellow RTO folks are aware of. I’ll let them add it if they think that it’s relevant. I know that you’ve been around and I think you can figure it out 😃. I will add that 14th St-Union Square southbound during the rush hour might make the RCC override the above process. Carry on.

What's the reason behind not allowing a train to be reversed into the station? I'm no signal expert but wouldn't the trains behind it be shown a yellow/red at the point that the overrun train is already in the station and therefore making the reversal safe with supervision?

On a related note the only time I've had a train overrun the station was on the F line somewhere around Bay Parkway. They did the exact procedure you mentioned if I remember correctly. I thought it was odd that they overran it there as I don't remember the line at that point being on a downward slope but I hardly ride the subway to Brooklyn so my memory could be off.

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On 9/27/2020 at 7:09 PM, MHV9218 said:

In case anybody wondered what a Redbird R21 would have looked like... Not a great paint job, but you get the idea. No service R21s or R22s were painted as a Redbirds, and only a couple dozen R17s were painted as redbirds.

And why it received the number of museum R33WF 9306, beyond me.

<Redbird R21>

It does exist - well, it did exist! I seem to recall reading a post on SubTalk many years ago about an R21 renumbered 9306 sitting in Corona Yard. It would make sense for it to be used as office or storage space. There was an R12 and two R17s that sat on the south end of the storage tracks at East 180th St Yard well into the 90s, all painted in the Redbird scheme. Around the time they began renovating the barn to service R142s, the R12 and R17s were removed, never to be seen again. I also remember seeing Redbird R17s in service on the (5) in late 1987/early ‘88. They were gone by that Spring. I guess they had enough rebuilt R26/28/29s by that point to make full service on the (5).

Edited by T to Dyre Avenue
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1 hour ago, M5viaRiverside said:

Why does the (Z) skip Cypress Hills? I know that ridership there is low, but the (Z) has to crawl through the station because of the timers on the S curve anyway. Why have passengers wait 8-10 minutes when the time saved by skipping the stop is negligible?

I’m surprised that station is still open, given that half its walkshed is cemeteries. 

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5 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Do any of the stations other then Rockaway Park on the west Rockaway branch get more ridership during the summer?

Nah.... It's Rockaway Park itself, or bust (and even it, itself, isn't all that great)....

Edited by B35 via Church
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21 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

I really hope it is the R211.. And maybe the tarp is because they don't want railfans being the first people to photograph the car and want to unveil it at a press conference...

 

 

Yea I know that tarp theory sounds a little tin foil/Wallyhorse like but its my guess haha

It was shaped like a R211... then again a PA5 has a similar shape.

idk, it was a single car that I saw too... and it was on Central Avenue, a bit of a ways out from the plant... I'm just as lost as you guys are.

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1 hour ago, trainfan22 said:

I really hope it is the R211.. And maybe the tarp is because they don't want railfans being the first people to photograph the car and want to unveil it at a press conference...

 

 

Yea I know that tarp theory sounds a little tin foil/Wallyhorse like but its my guess haha

1 hour ago, paulrivera said:

It was shaped like a R211... then again a PA5 has a similar shape.

idk, it was a single car that I saw too... and it was on Central Avenue, a bit of a ways out from the plant... I'm just as lost as you guys are.

It would make sense since they don't want people to go out during a pandemic anyways so it would at least help decrease chances of it. Although, from what I've heard, some of the PA-5 were sent up to Kawasaki Yonkers plant for CBTC so that could actually be it. I really do hope it's the R211's finally being delivered, but again, it is what it is.

 

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