BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[JeremiahC99]

32 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

I would not be so fast to say that.

They will most likely convert it to artics like the other crosstowns. Certainly has the ridership volume for it.

 

30 minutes ago, WestFarms36 said:

Well the only factor that can determine this is time, depending on when the M96 SBS is ready, there should be more of a discernible variety of options of what fleet and depot the route may operate out of, but for now it is all behind closed doors. 

As long as our diesel artics meet latest EPA standards as to not pollute the air in the Upper West Side, East Harlem, and Harlem, that’s fine. I don’t want to hear complaints about pollution from diesels from the predominately minority neighborhood of East Harlem. No “Oh these buses emit this”, “these buses emit that”, “the diesel fumes will cause lung cancer”. None of that bulls***. And if they do say that, I have bridge to sell them because my also-predominately-black-neighborhood of Flatlands also has a fleet of diesel buses plying up and down Utica Avenue on the B46, yet they’re not complaining. 

[Future ENY OP]

1 hour ago, JeremiahC99 said:

 

As long as our diesel artics meet latest EPA standards as to not pollute the air in the Upper West Side, East Harlem, and Harlem, that’s fine. I don’t want to hear complaints about pollution from diesels from the predominately minority neighborhood of East Harlem. No “Oh these buses emit this”, “these buses emit that”, “the diesel fumes will cause lung cancer”. None of that bulls***. And if they do say that, I have bridge to sell them because my also-predominately-black-neighborhood of Flatlands also has a fleet of diesel buses plying up and down Utica Avenue on the B46, yet they’re not complaining. 

What the hell are you talking about.. Artics are already operating on the Upper West Side in the form of Crosstown Buses. East Harlem with the M15, and Harlem with the M101, 102 and 103.

Also, this talk is WAY too early for a determination of the fleet that will be used for the M96. Let the Department of Buses work with its partners at the Department of Transportation to find the best solution and the fleet that will be used.

[MysteriousBtrain]

1 hour ago, JeremiahC99 said:

 

As long as our diesel artics meet latest EPA standards as to not pollute the air in the Upper West Side, East Harlem, and Harlem, that’s fine. I don’t want to hear complaints about pollution from diesels from the predominately minority neighborhood of East Harlem. No “Oh these buses emit this”, “these buses emit that”, “the diesel fumes will cause lung cancer”. None of that bulls***. And if they do say that, I have bridge to sell them because my also-predominately-black-neighborhood of Flatlands also has a fleet of diesel buses plying up and down Utica Avenue on the B46, yet they’re not complaining. 

The B46 riders ain't complaining because they got the newest technology with USBs and chargers and wifi and all that fancy shtuff when riding the SBS. Ofc they would never complain about diesel buses if they got the fresh ass equipment.

Edited May 28, 2019 by MysteriousBtrain
/s

[Express Bus Operator]

So today I pulled out one of the sbs46 7600’s buses to operate on the sb44+, and I noticed the announcements and display screen works perfectly on the 7600’s buses versus the 6100’s that has the screen display. Whoever programed the 7600’s buses display screen and announcements needs to work on the 6000’s buses that are equipped with the feature. The announcements were on point and not laggy or saying the wrong stops compared to the 6000’s.  

[BrightlinerNewFlyer]

9 hours ago, FLX9304 said:

How? It’s non-stop from 125th & Park Ave (SB) and 125th & 3rd Ave (NB) to 179th & St. Unless you want it to operate middays and early evenings 

Go up HRD to 179, over to Broadway, and up Broadway as an Express Route. Maybe it'd be called the BxM12 if it went to the Bronx, or the X98 if it kept its current routing. Also, by express bus, I meant operating Prevosts and MCIs, not Orions

[DetSMART45]

5 hours ago, Flatbush SBS Duece said:

So today I pulled out one of the sbs46 7600’s buses to operate on the sb44+, and I noticed the announcements and display screen works perfectly on the 7600’s buses versus the 6100’s that has the screen display. Whoever programed the 7600’s buses display screen and announcements needs to work on the 6000’s buses that are equipped with the feature. The announcements were on point and not laggy or saying the wrong stops compared to the 6000’s.  

Lag has to do with the onboard "receiver" losing communication via wireless, sorta like how your old car radio would fade when going under an overpass. The Clever system SMART uses has frequent burps like this, with either the display freezing (still cycling through the time/date, last announced stop, transfer point/stop requested) then skipping ahead to the next upcoming stop once reconnected, or it will just stay static with the time/date until reconnected. On some routes, there are "dead points" where communication is lost consistently. Since the Clever system runs the destination signs, you can see when these burps happen because the sign can be cycling coming up the street, then suddenly goes completely dark, then comes back on.

The ancient DDOT system has/had (in process of being upgraded) transfer points or programmed points-of-interest (i.e. "Exit next stop for Amtrak station") only, instead of reading/displaying every stop. Actually, I prefer that way of doing it, because in watching how the "general public" behaves on the buses between the two (DDOT main stops/transfers only read/displayed, SMART all stops read/displayed) there's not much attention to the sign/voice when it comes to in-between stops. Most people check out the window for familiar landmarks, etc. or "know" where their stop is, and pull the cord. (Plus with seemingly everyone so immersed in their phones/earbuds, if someone already pulls for a stop, multiple others yank the cord after "stop requested" has already been announced and is showing on the screen anyways.) This is even true of real ADA customers (and seniors), that even though they're sitting directly under the sign, they're looking out the window for their stop before they pull the cord.

The SMART Clever system is also notorious for failures where the voice is off or the screen dark, or both, and it's not the fault of the operator or maintenance oversight. Most operators have said it "just happens", even though everything's up and running on their control center.

[JeremiahC99]

8 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

What the hell are you talking about.. Artics are already operating on the Upper West Side in the form of Crosstown Buses. East Harlem with the M15, and Harlem with the M101, 102 and 103.

Also, this talk is WAY too early for a determination of the fleet that will be used for the M96. Let the Department of Buses work with its partners at the Department of Transportation to find the best solution and the fleet that will be used.

I was talking about diesel equipment in general. East Harlem caused a big fuss in 2003 when the Tuskegee Airmen Depot (then the 100th Street depot) reopened, claiming that the diesel equipment would cause cancer and asthma in a predominately minority neighborhood, and even got their asses involved in the Mother Clara Hale project, forcing the MTA to put hybrid buses in the depot and to have them cap the capacity to 140 buses. East Harlem and Upper Manhattan in general is big on environmental justice.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

7 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I was talking about diesel equipment in general. East Harlem caused a big fuss in 2003 when the Tuskegee Airmen Depot (then the 100th Street depot) reopened, claiming that the diesel equipment would cause cancer and asthma in a predominately minority neighborhood, and even got their asses involved in the Mother Clara Hale project, forcing the MTA to put hybrid buses in the depot and to have them cap the capacity to 140 buses. East Harlem and Upper Manhattan in general is big on environmental justice.

It wasn’t just a claim. It was well known that asthma had been an issue in those areas for years, and the depots were a big part of the problem.

[DetSMART45]

4 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I was talking about diesel equipment in general. East Harlem caused a big fuss in 2003 when the Tuskegee Airmen Depot (then the 100th Street depot) reopened, claiming that the diesel equipment would cause cancer and asthma in a predominately minority neighborhood, and even got their asses involved in the Mother Clara Hale project, forcing the MTA to put hybrid buses in the depot and to have them cap the capacity to 140 buses. East Harlem and Upper Manhattan in general is big on environmental justice.

I wasn't going to touch this, but with clean diesel (and biodiesel in some TAs) being the norm, the public's scapegoating of buses is totally out of line. I remember the days of CLOUDS spewing from the old RTSes, GM/MCI Classics, Neoplans on takeoffs, especially noticeable when you had three or four buses waiting at a CBD light and they all put the foot down on the green.

Today, the only vehicles I see doing those clouds are tractor-trailers, dumptrucks, and even municipally-owned heavy vehicles. Hell, we got stuck a couple weeks ago behind a city-owned street sweeper spewing such a cloud -- while in motion at 40 mph -- that everyone on the bus was complaining about the fumes coming into the bus. And that was on one of the "sealed windows" BRT SMART Gilligs, so we couldn't even crack some windows to get some pass-through ventilation.

[Future ENY OP]

19 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I was talking about diesel equipment in general. East Harlem caused a big fuss in 2003 when the Tuskegee Airmen Depot (then the 100th Street depot) reopened, claiming that the diesel equipment would cause cancer and asthma in a predominately minority neighborhood, and even got their asses involved in the Mother Clara Hale project, forcing the MTA to put hybrid buses in the depot and to have them cap the capacity to 140 buses. East Harlem and Upper Manhattan in general is big on environmental justice.

Fam. Listen those depots were there well before the NIMBY’s even got there. Before your time Manhattan had about 7 depots all within coverage of Manhattan. Things were a lot worse over 25 years ago compared to today. MCH could easily hold 160-180* perhaps to ease the load in the division. It doesn’t help when you have restrictions to appease the residents of the area. 

I guess you gotta be a shareholder to have say. 

[Future ENY OP]

26 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

 East Harlem and Upper Manhattan in general is big on environmental justice.

What about the South Bronx??? They have the bigger environmental issue than Upper Manhattan & all of Harlem. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

11 minutes ago, DetSMART45 said:

I wasn't going to touch this, but with clean diesel (and biodiesel in some TAs) being the norm, the public's scapegoating of buses is totally out of line. I remember the days of CLOUDS spewing from the old RTSes, GM/MCI Classics, Neoplans on takeoffs, especially noticeable when you had three or four buses waiting at a CBD light and they all put the foot down on the green.

Today, the only vehicles I see doing those clouds are tractor-trailers, dumptrucks, and even municipally-owned heavy vehicles. Hell, we got stuck a couple weeks ago behind a city-owned street sweeper spewing such a cloud -- while in motion at 40 mph -- that everyone on the bus was complaining about the fumes coming into the bus. And that was on one of the "sealed windows" BRT SMART Gilligs, so we couldn't even crack some windows to get some pass-through ventilation.

It was the people advocating for cleaner buses in the first place that made that happen though. These things don’t just happen on their own, and the  has a history of having to be forced to do things, such as the ADA situation. If not for the advocacy groups suing the  , a lot of the elevators we have today would not exist.

[Future ENY OP]

On 5/27/2019 at 7:31 AM, DetSMART45 said:

Outfront Media Kits by Market

All are PDFs. NYC is the most expansive, covering the huge electronic billboards, subway, railroads, buses and the kiosks.

I got a change to look at the media kits of Boston and Washington DC. If NYC could take a page from them with the full bus wraps previously with  bus and private companies and rear bus wraps then they can generate more revenue. 

However, what i see with New York City is that those newer XD40’s will NOT get any driverside wraps. Possibly Bus headliners, Bus Extensions, Bus The Franklin, Bus Super Kings, and Bus Kongs. 

[DetSMART45]

7 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It was the people advocating for cleaner buses in the first place that made that happen though. These things don’t just happen on their own, and the  has a history of having to be forced to do things, such as the ADA situation. If not for the advocacy groups suing the  , a lot of the elevators we have today would not exist.

Yeah, but are the same people complaining to Sanitation about their trucks' emissions, as an example? Pretty sure you can find the "soot lines" even today on those vehicles, but go ahead and moan about the buses being the "biggest culprits". The MTA may have had to be dragged kicking and screaming, but they actually did something about it. (Actually, the manufacturers did something about it and TAs chose when to get new equipment, but that's another story.)

[JeremiahC99]

16 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

What about the South Bronx??? They have the bigger environmental issue than Upper Manhattan & all of Harlem. 

Yes them too. However, unlike Upper Manhattan, they don’t have multiple Depots within coverage in that area. The only Depot In the South Bronx is West Farms, and it sits near an expressway interchange. The big complaint there is the Sheridan Expressway and the truck traffic on local streets, which should be resolved.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, DetSMART45 said:

Yeah, but are the same people complaining to Sanitation about their trucks' emissions, as an example? Pretty sure you can find the "soot lines" even today on those vehicles, but go ahead and moan about the buses being the "biggest culprits". The MTA may have had to be dragged kicking and screaming, but they actually did something about it. (Actually, the manufacturers did something about it and TAs chose when to get new equipment, but that's another story.)

You're comparing apples to oranges.  To answer your question, when communities have had dozens of Sanitation trucks invading their neighborhood, yes they have spoke out against it, and why wouldn't they?  These are environmental issues that should be addressed where possible.  What usually happens is the more moneyed areas can go out and protest and hire lawyers if need be to stop certain things from occurring. Poorer neighborhoods usually don't have that luxury, as a result have had to take on the brunt of such developments, and it seems to be a no-brainer that if the  is going to be build new depots in residential neighborhoods, they should be as environmentally sound as possible.  Hell, even the  workers out of these depots have complained about the toxins and fumes and have pushed against them, so why shouldn't residents?  Just because a depot was there and has been for years does not mean that residents should be forced to deal with all sorts of conditions.  I don't have a depot in my neighborhood, but I can certainly understand why these people would fight tooth and nail for the new depots to be environmentally sound.  The neighborhoods in question historically have had some of the highest asthma rates around, and these depots have been exacerbating that problem.  

Edited May 28, 2019 by Via Garibaldi 8

[MysteriousBtrain]

2 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I was talking about diesel equipment in general. East Harlem caused a big fuss in 2003 when the Tuskegee Airmen Depot (then the 100th Street depot) reopened, claiming that the diesel equipment would cause cancer and asthma in a predominately minority neighborhood, and even got their asses involved in the Mother Clara Hale project, forcing the MTA to put hybrid buses in the depot and to have them cap the capacity to 140 buses. East Harlem and UpperManhattan in general is big on environmental justice.

OF and upper Manhattan did want cleaner buses I won't deny that fact but at the same time I'm pointing out that they could of used the RTS at Hale but chose not to mostly because they weren't needed. Besides the green project at Hale, MTA dosen't really bother with environmentalists. Just looking at the issues that happened when the MTA retired the last of them. Remember the MTA loved the hell out if their RTS so the depots that had them at the time wanted to hold onto them as long as possible, especially Quill.

Plus RTS weren't even at Hale since the beginning of the 2000's. By the time OF closed in 2008 it operated Orion Vs and VII OGs. 

Nobody forced the MTA to use Hybrid buses st MCH. You got that COMPLETELY wrong.

-126th st was closing down, so the NGs at 126 were simply moved to Hale. Same thing with the 1200's

-The M15 local was moved to Tuskegee Airmen and kicked the M96/106 out of OH; moving it to Manhattanville, which in result moved the M1/7 to Hale. The OGs at OH could not operate on the artic routes at OH and it made no sense to move them to MV so the OGs were moved to OF.

-There were only 10 or so RTS at 126. They did not need to go to OF because they had enough buses plus it's easier and makes more sense to maintain three different kinds of models compared to four.

 

You need to do your damn research and stop assuming sh*t before you go on a rant and claim something that ain't true.

(One thing that you also missed is the fact that a few times in 2016 MCH briefly operated D60s so the environmental problems you claim exist makes all this even more moot)

Edited May 28, 2019 by MysteriousBtrain
Hale was a green project, but that doesn't mean that Hybrids were "forced".

[MysteriousBtrain]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It was the people advocating for cleaner buses in the first place

OF and upper Manhattan did want cleaner buses I won't deny that fact but at the same time I'm pointing out that they could of used the RTS at Hale but chose not to mostly because they weren't needed, not because of environmental issues. MTA dosen't really bother with environmentalists like that. Just look at the issues that happened when the MTA retired the last of them. Remember the MTA loved the hell out if their RTS so the depots that had them at the time wanted to hold onto them as long as possible, especially Quill.

Plus RTS weren't even at Hale since the beginning of the 2000's. By the time OF closed in 2008 it operated Orion Vs and VII OGs. 

Edited May 28, 2019 by MysteriousBtrain

[Via Garibaldi 8]

6 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

OF and upper Manhattan did want cleaner buses I won't deny that fact but at the same time I'm pointing out that they could of used the RTS at Hale but chose not to mostly because they weren't needed, not because of environmental issues. MTA dosen't really bother with environmentalists. Just looking at the issues that happened when the MTA retired the last of them. Remember the MTA loved the hell out if their RTS so the depots that had them at the time wanted to hold onto them as long as possible, especially Quill.

Plus RTS weren't even at Hale since the beginning of the 2000's. By the time OF closed in 2008 it operated Orion Vs and VII OGs. 

Everything I've been stated has been widely known now for years, so your comments are inaccurate. There are organizations out here, such WE ACT that were very involved in the rebuilding of Mother Clara Hale Depot, which includes the buses, which I have put in bold:

https://www.weact.org/campaigns/mother-clara-hale-bus-depot/

The demands below represent the priorities presented by WE ACT and the Task Force to the community and MTA, which were met through construction and operations:

- Best available technologies on all emission sources

- Prioritized assignment of hybrid electric buses to the MCH Depot

- Sufficient indoor parking to house the entire bus fleet

- Safe and sustainable depot lighting

- Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) designation

- Incorporated “green design” elements into the new structure, such as a green roof

- Landscaping and green spaces

- Rodent control and pesticide use

- Depot design by community charrette

- Safe practices on all demolition and construction activities

- Independent third party monitor and monitoring reporting

- Prioritized local minority and women owned businesses for project’s needs

- Local hire and training program

 

Edited May 28, 2019 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Future ENY OP]

19 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Nobody forced the MTA to use Hybrid buses st MCH. You got that COMPLETELY wrong.

-126th st was closing down, so the NGs at 126 were simply moved to Hale. Same thing with the 1200's

-The M15 local was moved to Tuskegee Airmen and kicked the M96/106 out of OH; moving it to Manhattanville, which in result moved the M1/7 to Hale. The OGs at OH could not operate on the artic routes at OH and it made no sense to move them to MV so the OGs were moved to OF.

-There were only 10 or so RTS at 126. They did not need to go to OF because they had enough buses plus it's easier and makes more sense to maintain three different kinds of models compared to four.

 

You need to do your damn research and stop assuming sh*t before you go on a rant and claim something that ain't true.

 

(One thing that you also missed is the fact that a few times in 2016 MCH briefly operated D60s so the environmental problems you claim exist makes all this even more moot)

Absolutely accurate! 

May I add those 10 RTS from 126 eventually got moved to Quill or Flatbush or MHV (correct me on this one) 

[MysteriousBtrain]

11 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Everything I've been stated has been widely known now for years, so your comments are inaccurate. There are organizations out here, such WE ACT that were very involved in the rebuilding of Mother Clara Hale Depot, which includes the buses, which I have put in bold:

https://www.weact.org/campaigns/mother-clara-hale-bus-depot/

The demands below represent the priorities presented by WE ACT and the Task Force to the community and MTA, which were met through construction and operations:

- Best available technologies on all emission sources

- Prioritized assignment of hybrid electric buses to the MCH Depot

- Sufficient indoor parking to house the entire bus fleet

- Safe and sustainable depot lighting

- Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) designation

- Incorporated “green design” elements into the new structure, such as a green roof

- Landscaping and green spaces

- Rodent control and pesticide use

- Depot design by community charrette

- Safe practices on all demolition and construction activities

- Independent third party monitor and monitoring reporting

- Prioritized local minority and women owned businesses for project’s needs

- Local hire and training program

 

I was just looking at the page. Yes the depot was announced as a green project but I'll choose to still stand by my wording because prioritize and force are two different things.

Tbh if this was "forced" OF would be 100% Hybrid and the 1200s would be forced to go to OF or MQ.

Edited May 28, 2019 by MysteriousBtrain

[Via Garibaldi 8]

10 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

I was just looking at the page. Yes the depot was announced as a green project but I'll choose to still stand by my wording because prioritize and force are two different things.

Well there was no need to "force" the  to move buses because these sorts of organizations have been around for years, so the community gave the  the chance to right a wrong and they did.  Had they not, then surely they would've moved to sue and rightfully so.  Below as an example of that where organizations in the South Bronx named the in a lawsuit for that reason, so yes, they can either "prioritize" the fleet, or be taken to court. The case below is over 20 years old, pertaining to the old Walnut Depot in the South Bronx, so clearly this is nothing new.

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp2/20/565/2423550/

Now the moving of buses the public doesn't have a direct say over, but the  is a public agency, something that people seem to forget.  They cannot just act as they wish without communities having a say.  

Edited May 28, 2019 by Via Garibaldi 8

[MysteriousBtrain]

 

12 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Well there was no need to "force" the  to move buses because these sorts of organizations have been around for years, so the community gave the  the chance to right a wrong and they did.  Had they not, then surely they would've moved to sue and rightfully so.  Below as an example of that were organizations in the South Bronx named the in a lawsuit for that reason, so yes, they can either "prioritize" the fleet, or be taken to court. The case below is over 20 years old, pertaining to the old Walnut Depot in the South Bronx, so clearly this is nothing new.

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp2/20/565/2423550/

My point is that even though Hale was a green project you could still operate old buses in the depot (again D60s in 2016) and have it be green with little consequence. It was only 10 RTS buses that really needed to be moved so 10/70 buses would not even really be noticed like that

Look at Grand Avenue Depot when it opened in 2007-08 it was over half RTS.

2008 bus roster of grand avenue:

RTS: 8027, 8252,8382, 8776-8785, 8537-8559, 8561, 9430-9487, 9508-9509, 9538, 9571, 9575. HYBRID-ORIONS: 6558-6624.

RTS: 108, HYBRID ORIONS: 67, TOTAL: 175.

I also found this:

https://web.archive.org/web/20080724162802/http://www.ddp-ny.com/architecture/transportation/grand.html

dD+P is providing architecture and landscape design services for the 500,000 sq. ft. new central maintenance facility and bus depot to be constructed on Grand Avenue in Maspeth, Queens.

The two-story facility will have space for fueling, cleaning and indoor storage of 200 buses for the Brooklyn-Queens division of the New York City Transit. Within this facility, the storage, fueling, washing, painting, and mechanical operations will be under one roof, and can accommodate approximately 27 buses undergoing repairs or scheduled maintenance. The project also includes administrative offices, and employee amenities, including a roof-top employee parking lot which will ensure minimal impact on the neighborhood. The building will meet the need of expanding and upgrading the Department of Buses' facilities to be state-of-the-art from both environmental and technological standpoints.

This design/build project will be the first "green" bus facility of its kind, built using all state-of-the-art systems, designs, and materials, and adhere to Environmental Management Systems 1SO14001 specifications.

The Grand Avenue Bus Depot and Maintenance Facility is scheduled to be completed during the summer of 2006.

[MysteriousBtrain]

18 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Now the moving of buses the public doesn't have a direct say over, but the  is a public agency, something that people seem to forget.  They cannot just act as they wish without communities having a say.  

That's basically what I'm saying. DOT had the say in this and it was indeed easier to make the standard fleet 100% Hybrid. I'm just saying they could have but in the end DOt decided it make no sense to put RTS at OF from a maintenance and environmental pov.

Edited May 28, 2019 by MysteriousBtrain

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, MysteriousBtrain said:

 

My point is that even though Hale was a green project you could still operate old buses in the depot (again D60s in 2016) and have it be green with little consequence. It was only 10 RTS buses that really needed to be moved so 10/70 buses would not even really be noticed like that

Look at Grand Avenue Depot when it opened in 2007-08 it was over half RTS.

2008 bus roster of grand avenue:

RTS: 8027, 8252,8382, 8776-8785, 8537-8559, 8561, 9430-9487, 9508-9509, 9538, 9571, 9575. HYBRID-ORIONS: 6558-6624.

RTS: 108, HYBRID ORIONS: 67, TOTAL: 175.

I also found this:

https://web.archive.org/web/20080724162802/http://www.ddp-ny.com/architecture/transportation/grand.html

 

 

If they had to operate RTS buses they would've put them there as a temporary solution, but as I said, the planning of the new depot and the bus situation had been in the works for years anyway, so that gave the MTA adequate time to make the arrangements necessary for the more clean air friendly buses at that depot.  Believe me, my uncle used to drive the M102 out 100th street. I remember the old depot as a kid because the M102 terminated around there (still does IIRC) and that old depot was a DUMP. The bathrooms were disgusting.  I believe even back then there were talks about a new depot and that was back in the 90s.