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EE Broadway Local

BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

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10 hours ago, Joel Up Front said:

Do fareboxes accept pennies?  I annoyed B/O's sometimes whenever I paid in dimes and nickels because I only had $1.00 in quarters.

Last I checked, they do, even though the sign says they don't. I remember someone on here a few years ago talking about annoying a B/O they didn't like by paying entirely in pennies once. 

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12 hours ago, Joel Up Front said:

Do fareboxes accept pennies?  I annoyed B/O's sometimes whenever I paid in dimes and nickels because I only had $1.00 in quarters.

They definitely accept pennies, here in Staten Island I've seen people put in $0.03, and $0.08 into the machine to pay their "fare". 

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Posted (edited)

NYCT ridership data form 2018: 

NYCT

SI took a big hit with ridership last year with all routes seeing declines as much as 16.3%.

 

Edited by Lil 57
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1 hour ago, Lil 57 said:

NYCT ridership data form 2018: 

NYCT

Someone screwed up the 2013 Manhattan figures...

I'm really concerned about some of those numbers, particularly for routes like the B41 and Bx36.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

NYCT ridership data form 2018: 

NYCT

SI took a big hit with ridership last year with all routes seeing declines as much as 16.3%.

 

That's sad how EVERY SINGLE Staten Island route local / express COMBINED, lost ridership on every route...

A part is A LOT people stopped paying because the routes don't help commuters get to/from work on time. 

Edit: I've lost hope for this city, nothing will ever get better in terms of transportation. As soon as I get financially stable I'm moving out. 

Edited by XcelsiorBoii4888

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

That's sad how EVERY SINGLE Staten Island route local / express COMBINED, lost ridership on every route...

A part is A LOT people stopped paying because the routes don't help commuters get to/from work on time. 

Edit: I've lost hope for this city, nothing will ever get better in terms of transportation. As soon as I get financially stable I'm moving out. 

The S89 gets a pass for 2018 due to all of that Bayonne Bridge work which added more time to the trips, which detoured ridership, with the work on the Bayonne Bridge complete, ridership should increase this year.

I do believe that increased fare evasion is a major part of the ridership decreases shown because if the B/O doesn't click F5 for every farebeater, they won't be counted as a rider. B/Os try their best to count every farebeater but if you pull up to a stop and 30 people farebeat, that could be hard to count, especially if they are entering through the rear door. Fare evasion was at 25% before the crackdown began and I doubt that the B/Os counted everyone so that's probably why the decreases are more drastic than they actually are. Hopefully the farebeaters will learn there lesson when their service is cut.

Some routes also have a hard time when it comes to reliability. S44 buses tend to bunch all day. The S79 bunches in threes and fours. The S78 is always delayed. These are issues that also detour ridership.

Edited by Lil 57

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3 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

NYCT ridership data form 2018: 

NYCT

SI took a big hit with ridership last year with all routes seeing declines as much as 16.3%.

I guess the MTA Bus Co lines have flat ridership as they weren't listed. Granted, it's an NYCT list. But still, they'd have to merge the lines eventually for operational and reporting purposes.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

That's sad how EVERY SINGLE Staten Island route local / express COMBINED, lost ridership on every route...

A part is A LOT people stopped paying because the routes don't help commuters get to/from work on time. 

Edit: I've lost hope for this city, nothing will ever get better in terms of transportation. As soon as I get financially stable I'm moving out. 

They're not accurate because of the service changes that went into effect August of last year, and they don't really account for that, they just post all ridership statistics for the entire year, even if the routes started/stopped running sometime in the year. I did the math and the X11/SIM32 ridership went up. The X21/SIM22 ridership went up 13% too. However, the X17/SIM4/SIM8 ridership, as well as the X30/SIM30 ridership, went down.

For that reason, we won't be able to say how certain the SIM buses are preforming for another two years (when the 2020 stats come out).

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven
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@Lil 57 @XcelsiorBoii4888 Here's the thing with fare evasion: Supposedly these numbers don't include farebeaters (even if the B/O pressed F5). A few years ago they mentioned something about it only including people who dipped a valid pass (honestly I think it might've even excluded their own employees who ride for free)

In any case I remember back in 2010 they released the 2009 ridership numbers and the S46/96 showed 8600 riders (in the booklet where they described the reductions they would make) Then on that spreadsheet on the website (the one @Lil 57 posted) they showed 7200 riders. Maybe that means there were 1400 farebeaters, or maybe that means they were just sloppy with their numbers. So always take these stats with a grain of salt.

5 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

They're not accurate because of the service changes that went into effect August of last year, and they don't really account for that, they just post all ridership statistics for the entire year, even if the routes started/stopped running sometime in the year. I did the math and the X11/SIM32 ridership went up. The X21/SIM22 ridership went up 13% too. However, the X17/SIM4/SIM8 ridership, as well as the X30/SIM30 ridership, went down.

For that reason, we won't be able to say how certain the SIM buses are preforming for another two years (when the 2020 stats come out).

Exactly. With all of the routing and scheduling changes made between August and December 2018, the SIM ridership numbers are meaningless. (Especially since between August and October the schedules were an absolute mess, forcing people to take routes they wouldn't normally take, even after August there were many issues)

In any case, if any type of comparison is to be made, it should be weekday ridership vs. weekday ridership and weekend ridership vs. weekend ridership (problem is that as you said, the average includes timeframes when the route didn't run because it didn't exist)

But for the weekday routes you can count the number of weekdays (or better, the number of days a weekday schedule was operated, so it excludes holidays like Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc) and divide annual ridership by that.

The problem with the SIM4/8 is that the SIM4 numbers include SIM4C riders (and the SIM4C covered some X10 riders). And some X17 riders in Arden Heights were covered by the SIM2. The SIM2 saw a huge increase but the question is, how many were from the Hylan Blvd portion and/or off-peak compared to the original rush hour X19 service area (Arden Heights and Travis)?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

@Lil 57 @XcelsiorBoii4888 Here's the thing with fare evasion: Supposedly these numbers don't include farebeaters (even if the B/O pressed F5). A few years ago they mentioned something about it only including people who dipped a valid pass (honestly I think it might've even excluded their own employees who ride for free)

In any case I remember back in 2010 they released the 2009 ridership numbers and the S46/96 showed 8600 riders (in the booklet where they described the reductions they would make) Then on that spreadsheet on the website (the one @Lil 57 posted) they showed 7200 riders. Maybe that means there were 1400 farebeaters, or maybe that means they were just sloppy with their numbers. So always take these stats with a grain of salt.

In this day and age, the figures should be the figures, no salt added. STOP giving them any leeway in excuses -- THEY have made people want to use anything but the PRODUCT they are selling, plain and simple.

And, more importantly, the MTA should be held to account for doing such. (They really ARE, but nobody wants to acknowledge that fact.)

You "youngsters" might only know of "New Coke" because of some Netflix series. But, let me tell ya, when that actually happened, Coca-Cola took a WHOLE LOTTA SHIT for their f**k-up (pre-internet, natch) by shareholders, and most importantly, the buying public. No "oops we misjudged" or "Take those figures with a grain of salt, we're doing fine."

Plain and simple: THE MTA LOST CUSTOMERS and if they were like Coca-Cola, they would actually "feel it." Since they're a "government entity," they can spew any type of bullshit and people will look the other way.

THAT is what they count on -- NOT getting better in any way, shape or form -- due to that shield.

Do some reading on the former USSR, especially within the transportation-realm. You're not far from it, Komrade.

 

Edited by DetSMART45
Tidying up a bit
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Posted (edited)

In all honesty, I don't even feel like discussing these stats.....

Kinda like being on unemployment & watching the balance in your bank account heading south faster than birds (or a New Yorker) for the winter.....

Edited by B35 via Church

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1 hour ago, aemoreira81 said:

Will the MTA have a dedicated fleet for the S79 SBS anymore, once the remaining hybrids are booted off of Staten Island?

Only time will tell.

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2 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

Will the MTA have a dedicated fleet for the S79 SBS anymore, once the remaining hybrids are booted off of Staten Island?

 

Truth be told there's no need for a dedicated fleet since they used regular buses now anyway 

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6432 and 6473 are still kicking it. They were out this morning on the Q27 LTD and Q46 LTD respectively (just like yesterday evening).

 

6432 actually runs nice and doesn't sound like it's struggling like the rest of the First gens. Although 6473 definitely has a shot battery. 

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Has yukon just not been cleaning their express bus floors? 2554 has these white smears all over the floor that i swear look like faint salt stains. I mean the bus is overall comfortable (suspension is ass but I guess the roads will do that...) but i feel like its only saving grace is that it has only been around for close to half a decade... I tried 2223 late last week and even that was cleaner than 2554.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

@Lil 57 @BM5 via Woodhaven Numbers up for weekday/weekend. Multiply by approximately 3 for all routes except the SIM9 (which started later so multiply by 4)

So the SIM2 had an average of almost 600 weekend riders and got cut. SMH. That's more riders than the X28 on weekends.

(MTA) Bus had a 4.4% increase on express bus ridership. That's impressive!

Edited by Lil 57
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On 7/13/2019 at 11:46 AM, Lil 57 said:

Here's a image so you can see what I'm talking about.

Museum of sex again????

 

Anyone remember those pink and white Wendy Williams ads back in 2009-2010ish? I wish we can get cool and flashy ads on buses like those again.... The Vim Vixen and Fox News ads the buses got last year were trash looking (in my opinion).

Hopefully nice companies pay for bus ads SOON!

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On 7/13/2019 at 11:46 AM, Lil 57 said:

Here's a image so you can see what I'm talking about.

Museum of sex again????

 

Here we go again! This should be a side of the bus ad in Manhattan Division (which is where the ads ended up the last time). But Oatly said their front ads were only for six weeks.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

So the SIM2 had an average of almost 600 weekend riders and got cut. SMH. That's more riders than the X28 on weekends.

(MTA) Bus had a 4.4% increase on express bus ridership. That's impressive!

Surprising when the @Via Garibaldi 8 crew has logged all sorts of MIAs and late buses that would piss anyone off into using anything BUT the MTA.

Another clear example that the books are cooked.

Stick a fork in -- this puppy's done.

Irick's going out in a blaze of glory. (Counting his pension on all your current and future Metrocard scans.)

Edited by DetSMART45

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I'm not surprised that the stats decreased again on a lot of routes. The (MTA) is lenient and they just don't care about the system enough. Just too many things that are allowed to happen and nothing gets corrected until the issue is big and in their face.

It makes no sense that farebeating had to get so bad that you now are cracking down on it. It makes no sense that I have to wait 20+ minutes during the 2pm hour during the weekdays for a Q25/Q34 bus to take me to Jamaica, which is suppose to come every 6 mins. It makes no sense that Lexington Ave bus lines have a bus lane but it's not even strictly enforced. It was only until now when they decide that they are going to paint it and make it strictly bus only. Why wasn't this done years ago. The M101/102/103 are far from what I call reliable routes and they been like that for a long time. Then you have SBS routes that are suppose to be inspected by eagle team members and they rarely do that. You also have a bunch of outdated routes that underperform and don't serve the current demographics like Q31 and quite frankly most of the N/S Manhattan routes). It took all the way to the late 2010s and early 2020s to finally  get them to study the routes to eventually redesign them. So like I always say, the (MTA) causes most of the problems they have, and that's why people are flocking to other modes of transportations faster than ever. 

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11 minutes ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I'm not surprised that the stats decreased again on a lot of routes. The (MTA) is lenient and they just don't care about the system enough. Just too many things that are allowed to happen and nothing gets corrected until the issue is big and in their face.

It makes no sense that farebeating had to get so bad that you now are cracking down on it. It makes no sense that I have to wait 20+ minutes during the 2pm hour during the weekdays for a Q25/Q34 bus to take me to Jamaica, which is suppose to come every 6 mins. It makes no sense that Lexington Ave bus lines have a bus lane but it's not even strictly enforced. It was only until now when they decide that they are going to paint it and make it strictly bus only. Why wasn't this done years ago. The M101/102/103 are far from what I call reliable routes and they been like that for a long time. Then you have SBS routes that are suppose to be inspected by eagle team members and they rarely do that. You also have a bunch of outdated routes that underperform and don't serve the current demographics like Q31 and quite frankly most of the N/S Manhattan routes). It took all the way to the late 2010s and early 2020s to finally  get them to study the routes to eventually redesign them. So like I always say, the (MTA) causes most of the problems they have, and that's why people are flocking to other modes of transportations faster than ever. 

Amen, bro, amen.

Busiest DDOT route used to be that way with bunching galore, now it's a very rare occurrence -- and it's just like your MTA routes, with pick-up/drop-off at 98% of the stops the entire length.

All about "attitude" all around -- farebeating is tolerated, bus operators don't care because they're getting paid, supervisors look the other way, all the complacency and the "not my job"-syndrome, even when practically everything nowadays centers around customers and retaining them. "Works" at the MTA because, for lack of a better phrase, "they're too big to fail."

Let me tell ya, pre-bankruptcy when the DDOT routes got HACKED to death (and  then through bankruptcy), customers simply WALKED AWAY -- and it wasn't until Mayor Duggan (who actually ran a bus system--SMART) came in, KNEW how important buses were to a vibrant city, and ADMITTED PUBLICLY how people were let down for things to change. Brought in his successor at SMART to right the system, and made it a PRIORITY that changes WERE going to happen.

There's absolutely no excuse for what you're describing to occur, especially at 2pm on a weekday (surmising).

Until the MTA simply implodes and someone with REAL experience comes in, it's sad to say but this cycle is not going to end.

Today, over 85,000 people a weekday (on average) use DDOT. A mere 4 years ago, it was under half that. That's what happens when the public knows they can depend, once again, on their bus system. (And once you factor in the minor population gains during that time, it's practically ALL from the same residents from 4 years ago to today.)

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