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1 hour ago, NBTA said:

Think of it like this, if you couldn’t pay $2.75, and a cop pulls up on you, are YOU paying the $400?

If I don’t have $2.75 I won’t ride the bus. If I don’t have $7 to buy food, I won’t go into Walmart and steal food. If you do, they press charges and a huge civil fine. It’s the same here. 

Maybe $400 is too much but we need enough to act as a deterrent. In Toronto it’s $325 in Canadian dollars.

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2 hours ago, Lex said:

Why $400?

More importantly, will those cops (who will have to increase their numbers for artics) even get the message if the driver decides to let people board through the rear doors to get the bus moving sooner?

The $400 is designed to be a deterrent. Maybe it is too high but if you get caught more than once or twice I definitely think it’s fair.

 

The back door says no authorized entry. An MTA driver telling you to enter thru the back door is “authorized”. 

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With the M5 apparently getting artics this fall. Does that raise a possibility that the XE60 might be split between Quill and Manhattanville. Yes I am aware Manhattanville isn't artic ready but that begs the question as to why the M5 would get artics.

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3 minutes ago, MHV184 said:

With the M5 apparently getting artics this fall. Does that raise a possibility that the XE60 might be split between Quill and Manhattanville. Yes I am aware Manhattanville isn't artic ready but that begs the question as to why the M5 would get artics.

Where did you find this information?

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19 minutes ago, MHV184 said:

With the M5 apparently getting artics this fall. Does that raise a possibility that the XE60 might be split between Quill and Manhattanville. Yes I am aware Manhattanville isn't artic ready but that begs the question as to why the M5 would get artics.

M5 is not slated to get artics. That transit reporter at the Daily News is a real jerk and doesn’t do research correctly. Again, I have big concerns about an artic running down Madison/5th Avenues. The bigger issue is that there’s no depot currently than Manhattanville to have the M5 and don’t tell me MCH or TU could have the route cuz both depots will ruin that route. 

The real only way to have balance in the Upper Manhattan Division is to re-activate Amsterdam. Build a special depot for the museum buses. 

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M5 out of MQ, which already has the M55, is not impossible to imagine. Keep in mind the former-M5-now-M55 route ran artics from roughly 42nd and 5th to SF during the summer in 2014/2015 if I remember right as part of the supplemental 1 train service. It's been done before and could be done again. With the current stub end of the M5 not far from Quill, it even makes sense in terms of deadheads. 

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12 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

I don't agree at all with the S74/78 cuts. This shows how bad local service along Hylan Blvd can get when SBS is added to it.

The Stapleton area is also going to suffer as well on Sundays because every mode of transportation is going to run every 30 minutes.

Service was initially increased when the S79 became SBS. I know the span of the Richmond Avenue short-turns was increased and the S59 received a few early-morning short-turns from the SI Mall to Eltingville.

10 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

But the thing is that they really don't. If the (MTA) really used artics to increase capacity, they wouldn't cut service. If you have jam packed 40 footers running every 4 minutes, having 60 footers every 6 minutes is going to be just as crowded because more people are waiting for that bus because of the lower frequency.

Depends on the timeframe. Off-peak is 5 standards for 4 artics and overnight is a 1:1 replacement

7 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

TA’s looking at numbers and right now it is numbers game. If the fare is not being paid. Revenue is lost and for 2 vital routes on Staten Island is pretty bad.  However, most of the island has a big fare evasion problem (didn’t want to go there) but if the fare is paid more services will operate. If not, less service.  

I guess the TA’s new philosophy is pay your fare we will run more services. If not less service and we save money. I guess also that the TA is putting Tompkinsville-Stapleton-New Brighton customers on notice. You will get decreased service until we see good revenue. 

The short-turns really don't carry that much. I highly doubt it was fare evasion-related. The S46 is getting an increase for crying out loud. 

4 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

I think that there should be an offense system for fare evasion.

1st offense - $100 fine.

2nd offense - $500 fine.

3rd offense - $1000 fine and/or up to 1 year in jail. (Farebeating is a misdemeanor crime and should be treated like one.)

Talking about poverty, what ever happened to the reduced fare MetroCards for low income residents?

The guidelines are really low and you have to be really poor to qualify. I'll put it to you this way, I have a side job on the weekend and that job alone is way over the guidelines for qualifying.

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On 7/21/2019 at 2:21 AM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Unless it changed, the actual rule is that unless it is the last bus of the day, there cannot be standees. However, that isn't really followed, partially because the B/O has a schedule to keep and will not have the time to actively take a count of seats. 

That was never the case. As long as there is space behind the white line the procedure was always to offer the bus to the passengers and let them decide if they want to board. Ask any dispatcher or higher-level manager (and I've been in constant contact with them since the SIM system started)

On 7/20/2019 at 11:47 PM, Calvin said:

On express buses, for example, if a SIM1 to the Transit Center has all seats full with a few standees at the last few pickup stops in Manhattan, are they allow to stand on the bus or have to wait for the next one during the rush hour?

As long as there is space in front of the white line.

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I am pumped for the B38 to start using articulated buses, but I can’t stop thinking how they will manage on Fulton Street. There’s already tons of bus chaos on that VERY NARROW street; with articulated buses, I can’t even imagine what kinds of accidents will happen. Is it possible for the B38/LTD to be slightly rerouted? Maybe it can go down the same street for the B41 and B45 for a little?

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1 minute ago, Snorunts said:

I am pumped for the B38 to start using articulated buses, but I can’t stop thinking how they will manage on Fulton Street. There’s already tons of bus chaos on that VERY NARROW street; with articulated buses, I can’t even imagine what kinds of accidents will happen. Is it possible for the B38/LTD to be slightly rerouted? Maybe it can go down the same street for the B41 and B45 for a little?

I don’t know where the B38 would go without going through Fulton Mall.

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9 minutes ago, Snorunts said:

I am pumped for the B38 to start using articulated buses, but I can’t stop thinking how they will manage on Fulton Street. There’s already tons of bus chaos on that VERY NARROW street; with articulated buses, I can’t even imagine what kinds of accidents will happen. Is it possible for the B38/LTD to be slightly rerouted? Maybe it can go down the same street for the B41 and B45 for a little?

Trust, it'll manage, artics go through things that are worse. For example, look at the stretch on the Bx1 between Bailey Avenue and Fort Independence Street, VERY narrow street, can barely even fit a 40fter, but it works. 

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6 minutes ago, MTAbus677 said:

I don’t know where the B38 would go without going through Fulton Mall.

Potential guess for a possible reroute would be via Livingston Street. Going Westbound, the route would turn left on Flatbush Avenue, right on Nevins Street, then follow the routing of the B41 and B103 to the terminal. Going back, the route would follow the B41 and B103 to Flatbush Avenue and Lafayette Avenue, then straight on Lafayette Avenue to the regular route.

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37 minutes ago, MTAbus677 said:

I don’t know where the B38 would go without going through Fulton Mall.

38 will do excellent on Futon Street Mall. Narrow street like Fulton is nothing for the artics. 

39 minutes ago, Snorunts said:

I am pumped for the B38 to start using articulated buses, but I can’t stop thinking how they will manage on Fulton Street. There’s already tons of bus chaos on that VERY NARROW street; with articulated buses, I can’t even imagine what kinds of accidents will happen. Is it possible for the B38/LTD to be slightly rerouted? Maybe it can go down the same street for the B41 and B45 for a little?

I got one word for you and it’s simple.  RELAX. Buses will come in due time. 

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7 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

The $400 is designed to be a deterrent. Maybe it is too high but if you get caught more than once or twice I definitely think it’s fair.

I'd reserve that amount for a $4 base fare (basically, the fine for evasion is 100x the fare, so we would have $675 for the express buses and $275 for the rest of NYCT).

 

7 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

The back door says no authorized entry. An MTA driver telling you to enter thru the back door is “authorized”. 

What I'm specifically concerned about is communication in that situation, as fare enforcement may not actually get the message and slap people with needless fines.

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21 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

But the thing is that they really don't. If the (MTA) really used artics to increase capacity, they wouldn't cut service. If you have jam packed 40 footers running every 4 minutes, having 60 footers every 6 minutes is going to be just as crowded because more people are waiting for that bus because of the lower frequency.

Exactly right. I don't know how everybody missed this response. Even if you're currently making 4 minute, you're still not completely clearing your busiest stops on the route's bell curve -- you're only replacing the customers getting off -- so you'll have customers waiting for the next trip. Put an artic on a 4 minute, you'll have a lesser amount of customers who will wait for the next trip, because of the extra capacity. But let's throw in some reality:

If your 40-footers at peak load points of the route's bell curve are running closer to 6-7 minutes, you're on 9-10 bph versus your scheduled 15 -- meaning you've lost a capacity of around 300-360 in that hour (60 load/trip). Change over to artics then: Since buses are already on 6-7 minutes, current customer count is 540-600/hour; on a 90 load/trip artic, customer count goes to 810-900/hour (YAY! Problem solved!). NO, you're only collecting your customers that you were supposed to be picking up on 4 minute.  There's no extra capacity left!

SOOOOOOO, you're still not going to meet your new 6-7 minute schedule with your bigger buses. Your dwell times will not magically go down, but will instead increase (capturing the lost capacity). However, put the artics on the original 4 minute, 15 bph with 90 load, you're at 1350 customers/hour -- added capacity means another 450-540 customers/hour, or 30-36 per bus. Spread that out across your peak load points of the route, and you're going to come closer to clearing the stops on a more consistent basis. Evening out the loads means that the buses will actually operate on time a  higher percentage of the time.

21 hours ago, NBTA said:

Turns/Corners don't really matter for artics, they can make the turn, sometimes they can even make a corner better than a 40Fter. Artics are, 35/25, so technically, you're just driving a shorty, and the back part of the bus follows you.

Yes, in theory, but I've seen operators who can't even navigate a 40-footer around turns/corners without riding the curb or scuffing. DDOT artics are predominantly run by operators who have trained for them, and actually know the routes. Does MTA make sure every bus operator knows every route from the depot they're at, including the multitude of detours through the neighborhoods they're covering? A properly trained operator can make an artic perform, but someone who usually operates 40s, not so much.

19 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

A few of those Gun Hill and Kingsbridge buses have the Bronx Zoo wraps that got transferred to Flatbush and Manhattanville. It’s very rare that The Bronx and Brooklyn Divisions get driverside wraps. I would hope in the near future that the wraps the Manhattan Division get also expand to Brooklyn and the Bronx.  The Honest Tea wrap is a good example. 

More like a good example of how the MTA can't fully implement an ad program. The exceptions should be minimized, so that advertisers go into Outfront with the understanding that their campaign will be at maximum coverage citywide. Even if they only want to do a smaller campaign from the outset, it's cemented in their mind the ultimate possibilities available. How can you tell an advertiser, "Well, no, we can't do that 100% in Brooklyn, we can get you 50% tops, but we'll get you all over in Manhattan" if that's not their target market?

18 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

TA’s looking at numbers and right now it is numbers game. If the fare is not being paid. Revenue is lost and for 2 vital routes on Staten Island is pretty bad.  However, most of the island has a big fare evasion problem (didn’t want to go there) but if the fare is paid more services will operate. If not, less service.  

I guess the TA’s new philosophy is pay your fare we will run more services. If not less service and we save money. I guess also that the TA is putting Tompkinsville-Stapleton-New Brighton customers on notice. You will get decreased service until we see good revenue. 

How can you "put people on notice" if you don't make those intentions clear? Haven't seen the MTA actively communicating the message that farebeating = less service under the new, sudden focus on it. Think about it: As @Union Tpke can verify, the Bus Committee had been slightly "concerned" about ridership vs. revenues, even though it was getting worse year after year. Never (in my memory of going through the Books) was there anything of substance said about farebeating, how it's affecting revenues, something to be looked into. Byford comes on the scene, and all of a sudden, a complete about-face, including actually addressing that it IS A PROBLEM. So you've had YEARS of complacency, which just let the public run amok.

At this point, a firm stance needs to be taken, and I'd be all in favor of cutting service and tying it to farebeating. BUT, it would be a MAJOR campaign communicated across Buses/Subways/MNR/LIRR. Even though the railroads are relatively unaffected by it (compared to subways/buses), the wide-scale coverage is needed to cement the idea that stealing service won't be tolerated MTA-wide.

AND the MTA has to tell the squishy-spined DAs/prosecutors and the other politicians that SERVICE WILL BE CUT if they don't help out in enforcement. Maybe even "plant" the idea in the media that the MTA wants some Community Board funding for itself in high-farebeating zones. Think those politicians would sit idly by with that idea?

Edited by DetSMART45
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8 minutes ago, DetSMART45 said:

More like a good example of how the MTA can't fully implement an ad program. The exceptions should be minimized, so that advertisers go into Outfront with the understanding that their campaign will be at maximum coverage citywide. Even if they only want to do a smaller campaign from the outset, it's cemented in their mind the ultimate possibilities available. How can you tell an advertiser, "Well, no, we can't do that 100% in Brooklyn, we can get you 50% tops, but we'll get you all over in Manhattan" if that's not their target market?

 

Here’s a good example I’d like to point out. Earlier this year the Über eats campaign driverside wrap and rear ads were exclusively to Manhattan and express Bus Divisions only. No buses in Brooklyn and The Bronx received any of those Über eats ads. Meanwhile, a company like Über is everywhere. I just simply feel when certain advertising is only excluded to one part of the division and not spread out to other parts.  The latest Honest Tea Campaign is another one. Those 2 ads would make a big impact in the outer boroughs. 

 

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11 hours ago, MTAbus677 said:

I don’t know where the B38 would go without going through Fulton Mall.

Think about the B35, that route is along Church Ave which is a narrower corridor. I was concerned about that since early 2018 before the XN60s came for JGD. But until last summer, the XN60s and they handled it very well without a bump, a shove , and a broken mirror. I share that same thought and trend in my reviews of the XN60s and Jackie Gleason Depot, in my YT channel this year. So, that should go for the same trend to B38 going to Fulton Mall. Especially, for the B15 and B82 after ENY gets their modifications done.

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