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EE Broadway Local

BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

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24 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

 

Damm. Gun Hill can't take care of it's buses.. Lowkey Gun Hill is the old Yukon with shotty maintenance..

most of MaBSOTA has NEVER given a damn about the cosmetic appearance of their buses, going back to the old Coliseum, Amsterdam & walnut days. LG, JFK/FR, ENY, JA, CS & UP all subscribe to the MaBSTOA philosophy... if the b***h can run, who cares how she looks? i intentionally left JG, GA, QV, BP, SC, YO & EC off that list. also, KB & WF are very wishy-washy when it comes to cosmetic dressing of buses. ultimately, it depends on who the GS is. Gun Hill (100 Street/MV) never gave a damn. and somehow, historically they always seem to hand their garbage (once they've turned units into garbage) off to Brooklyn, KB or 100 street

Edited by EastFlatbushLarry

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36 minutes ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

most of MaBSOTA has NEVER given a damn about the cosmetic appearance of their buses, going back to the old Coliseum, Amsterdam & walnut days. LG, JFK/FR, ENY, JA, CS & UP all subscribe to the MaBSTOA philosophy... if the b***h can run, who cares how she looks?

They better be careful because they technically ain’t civil service. They’ll probably end up giving a damn if MaBSTOA’s ever spun off and whoever takes OA over ends up canning them all and TA doesn’t take them in. These upcoming budget crunches are no joke.

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1 hour ago, paulrivera said:

They better be careful because they technically ain’t civil service. They’ll probably end up giving a damn if MaBSTOA’s ever spun off and whoever takes OA over ends up canning them all and TA doesn’t take them in. These upcoming budget crunches are no joke.

you mean in the same way NICE gives a damn about how their buses look & run post MTA? doing cosmetic work on buses, painting, wraps & dents are overtime assignments, based on a depots budget. all the depots mentioned usually won't budget overtime for vanity. if a gang of buses need tranny work, shocks, struts, etc that will be accounted for. and, transit just said they'll be painting buses less frequently. so even transit doesn't give AF how they look, as long as they run. also, state legislation would have to dissolve the 2002 TA/OA consolidation and attempt to contract out MaBSTOA for what? when they've spent the better part of the past decade attempting to assimilate Bus Company to TA/OA standards. that's not even a viable threat or reality at this point in time. there's not a private company around with the resources or manpower to "reasonably" manage the DOB. and NYC itself truly wants no part of this. the unions & the state know this. By the way, MaBSTOA, although not civil service, has civil service protection under the law and union contract, hence why ALL MaBSTOA employees that were laid off were brought back. no civil service protection = all would've been terminated. the union included this stipulation after the formation of MaBSTOA to prevent exactly what you just insinuated... back in the 60's. again, state legislation would have to revoke civil service protection for all MaBSTOA employees for any dissolution of MaBSTOA to occur, which would certainly lead to lawsuits, state & federal. and if I'm not mistaken, there's a part of the union contract that prevents privatization, something that TWU local 252 didn't have with Long Island Bus.

Edited by EastFlatbushLarry
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7 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

most of MaBSOTA has NEVER given a damn about the cosmetic appearance of their buses, going back to the old Coliseum, Amsterdam & walnut days. LG, JFK/FR, ENY, JA, CS & UP all subscribe to the MaBSTOA philosophy... if the b***h can run, who cares how she looks? i intentionally left JG, GA, QV, BP, SC, YO & EC off that list. also, KB & WF are very wishy-washy when it comes to cosmetic dressing of buses. ultimately, it depends on who the GS is. Gun Hill (100 Street/MV) never gave a damn. and somehow, historically they always seem to hand their garbage (once they've turned units into garbage) off to Brooklyn, KB or 100 street

So much for the grand Cuomo-scheme being maintained then ... don't think His Majesty is gonna be too pleased with that news. Especially with another of his famous tongue-lashings of the MTA over recent publicity of crap-strewn (literally) subway cars being taken out of service causing delays. (MTA: "Oh, people are just reporting these conditions more now. Nothing to see here.")

DDOT, same as MaBSTOA, never had concern for DECADES over "cosmetic" appearance, and applied the same philosophy: If the bitch runs, that's all that matters. Except that school of thought went WELL beyond just cosmetics into mechanical upkeep. Until 2015, it was an extremely rare case that you could find a DDOT bus that did not have the 8/35 air conditioning (the bus version of hooptie 4/50 A/C--open the windows and drive 50). I've detailed some of the other occurrences of shoddy maintenance before, with seats off their moorings, gunshot windows, the RTS tooling around on a busted kneeler, and many more never told including an RTS with half the rear bumper gone, another RTS with a rear door that only one side opened (also meaning no lift), one of the Nova GM Classics with a very noticeable "dip"/sponginess in the rear door steps, and of course plenty of stanchions (floor-mount or seat-mount) that were anything but secure and able to take a good pull. Numerous layover locations with absolute puddles of oil on the pavement (some a good 4-5 feet in diameter), watching operators amusingly show off how much "play" they had in the steering wheel, and one of the D40HFs from the 90s that vibrated the floor significantly when making right turns. Even had one operator openly say he hoped the rain held off until the end of his runs because his right windshield wiper didn't work, and that another operator the day before wasn't so lucky.

During all the years prior to 2015, the mechanics said they were overworked, even during the exodus years when population was dropping like a rock (2000s). When the service cuts were done before eventual City bankruptcy, the public began lashing out at operators, who were caught in the middle -- yet the mechanics kept saying they were "doing the best they could with those old buses." Yep--same mantra as the late 1970s until GM "gifted" the first RTS fleet off their Pontiac Truck and Bus assembly lines to the City.

Post-bankruptcy brought a new mayor, who canned the previous DDOT director and brought in someone who COULD do the job--Dan Dirks. One of the first things was to get a handful of Xcelsiors that were originally going to Massachusetts, and to get a rush-order for more placed. Service was brought back to more normal levels, with 24-hour on the three main routes in mere months. Dan Dirks talked to all of the DDOT  employees, from every level. He listened to the mechanics, told them he'd give them the hours/equipment they need -- BUT if MDBF did not improve, and in a BIG WAY, all bets were off. Operators were told the same: follow the rules, show up for work, run on-time, or find somewhere else to work.

So in the end, it all starts with not caring about the "cosmetic" stuff, which leads to further not caring. The public notices it, and starts leaving the system because the main thing they're interested in -- SERVICE -- isn't being met. Only so much blame can be put back on the public for the clogged roads due to traffic, because the whole thing is cyclical. Then when the money isn't there, jobs will get cut.

Trouble is, the MTA is such a huge monster of its own making that a DDOT-style turnaround isn't even possible. Cuomo can't do a Dan Dirks for the MTA. But his legacy will be for everyone to see daily through his buses on the street adorned with his livery.

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13 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

I have this funny feeling that the crosstowns in Manhattan will be left alone and the north-south routes will be tinkered with in the redesign. 

IDK, I don't see 2 local routes on 57th st, nor do I see the separate branches of the M14 lasting..... Some streamlining I believe is inevitable w/ those two corridors.....

Being blunt, I think they'll opt to make the M14 & M57 "true crosstowns" (hate that term btw).....

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4 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

IDK, I don't see 2 local routes on 57th st, nor do I see the separate branches of the M14 lasting..... Some streamlining I believe is inevitable w/ those two corridors.....

Being blunt, I think they'll opt to make the M14 & M57 "true crosstowns" (hate that term btw).....

I can see both M14’s going down A, and a beefed up M9 holding it down on C. The M9 and M22 would then merge to achieve cost savings, because one consolidated route with 7.5 buses per hour on an 8 minute headway will be “better” than 5 buses per hour (12min headway) on the M9 and 3 buses per hour (20min headway) on the M22 separately.

This idea will be fatally flawed tho if a lot of people on Avenue C use the (L) train for any reason.

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2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

IDK, I don't see 2 local routes on 57th st, nor do I see the separate branches of the M14 lasting..... Some streamlining I believe is inevitable w/ those two corridors.....

Being blunt, I think they'll opt to make the M14 & M57 "true crosstowns" (hate that term btw).....

Well, since the M100 would no longer serve 125 east of Amsterdam, no one will bat an eye, the M104 loses service on 42 east of Times Square, everyone lost their minds. 

As far as those routes you mentioned, we may see this:

M31- no service west of York Av. (Goes back to its early '90's routing)

M57- no service on West End Av. Possible M12 extension?

M14- the Lower East Side Abingdon Square branch may get its own designation and/or extended on either end

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I miss the last Q44 bus by one light for 20 minutes because one stupid “Baby On Board” FUV didn’t want to move fast enough...and I now have to just miss the train from Jamaica to Cedarhurst, wait an hour for the next one, AND be late to work...because no advocacy group on here wants to care about the most underserved part of Queens/LI. Enjoy your stupid Patriot Day!

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13 minutes ago, Axis said:

I miss the last Q44 bus by one light for 20 minutes because one stupid “Baby On Board” FUV didn’t want to move fast enough...and I now have to just miss the train from Jamaica to Cedarhurst, wait an hour for the next one, AND be late to work...because no advocacy group on here wants to care about the most underserved part of Queens/LI. Enjoy your stupid Patriot Day!

The last Q44 bus? It runs 24/7.

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22 minutes ago, Axis said:

I miss the last Q44 bus by one light for 20 minutes because one stupid “Baby On Board” FUV didn’t want to move fast enough...and I now have to just miss the train from Jamaica to Cedarhurst, wait an hour for the next one, AND be late to work...because no advocacy group on here wants to care about the most underserved part of Queens/LI. Enjoy your stupid Patriot Day!

How do you miss the last Q44...when the route runs 24/7.

Clearly, you are making stories up.....

If you're going to blatantly lie about things, pick a line that doesn't run 24/7.....

Edited by Cait Sith
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21 minutes ago, Axis said:

I miss the last Q44 bus by one light for 20 minutes because one stupid “Baby On Board” FUV didn’t want to move fast enough...and I now have to just miss the train from Jamaica to Cedarhurst, wait an hour for the next one, AND be late to work...because no advocacy group on here wants to care about the most underserved part of Queens/LI. Enjoy your stupid Patriot Day!

Ah, I remember when the last Q44 LFSA ran...is that what you mean? Because that was almost two years ago, child.

 

Also, there’s Advocacy Groups for almost every borough, if there isn’t, make one, and speak up about issues instead of complaining.

 

Stop making stories up and stop looking like a bonafide fool. Enjoy your day good sir.

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55 minutes ago, Axis said:

I miss the last Q44 bus by one light for 20 minutes because one stupid “Baby On Board” FUV didn’t want to move fast enough...and I now have to just miss the train from Jamaica to Cedarhurst, wait an hour for the next one, AND be late to work...because no advocacy group on here wants to care about the most underserved part of Queens/LI. Enjoy your stupid Patriot Day!

Are you seriously still whining about your asinine trip?

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6 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Does anyone have any info on the M15 runs to City Hall?

They got rid of those trips back in 2010 and replaced that with the M9.

 

13 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

Well, since the M100 would no longer serve 125 east of Amsterdam, no one will bat an eye, the M104 loses service on 42 east of Times Square, everyone lost their minds. 

As far as those routes you mentioned, we may see this:

M31- no service west of York Av. (Goes back to its early '90's routing)

M57- no service on West End Av. Possible M12 extension?

M14- the Lower East Side Abingdon Square branch may get its own designation and/or extended on either end

Didn’t the MTA originally want the M14A to run to West 18th with the M14D? I can see that happen for the redesign.

However I can also see the M14A going away as well with the M9 being rerouted down Ave A/Essex Street. The Grand Ave part could be covered by a rerouted M22. Finally the M14D could run via Ave C to its current terminal and just be called the M14.

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17 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

Well, since the M100 would no longer serve 125 east of Amsterdam, no one will bat an eye, the M104 loses service on 42 east of Times Square, everyone lost their minds.

You could argue that 125 St already is overserved with 4 bus routes. 

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56 minutes ago, Snorunts said:

442 (Jackie Gleason) has a “Loved for goals” driverside wrap.

Only if Outfront could get dimensions for the XD40’s which is about the same dimensions as the C40’s at Gleason. However, this is good for the Brooklyn Division. Too bad Ulmer Park can’t wrap their local buses since they don’t have NG’s and i think the TA doesn’t want the XD40’s wrapped. However, if the rules were different UP would be king b/c they get every wrap campaign for the express buses. 

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7 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

They got rid of those trips back in 2010 and replaced that with the M9.

 

Didn’t the MTA originally want the M14A to run to West 18th with the M14D? I can see that happen for the redesign.

However I can also see the M14A going away as well with the M9 being rerouted down Ave A/Essex Street. The Grand Ave part could be covered by a rerouted M22. Finally the M14D could run via Ave C to its current terminal and just be called the M14.

What was the frequency and the route though?

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8 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

They got rid of those trips back in 2010 and replaced that with the M9.

 

Didn’t the MTA originally want the M14A to run to West 18th with the M14D? I can see that happen for the redesign.

However I can also see the M14A going away as well with the M9 being rerouted down Ave A/Essex Street. The Grand Street part could be covered by a rerouted M22. Finally the M14D could run via Ave C to its current terminal and just be called the M14.

No Grand Avenue in Manhattan. I help you on the edit portion of your post. 

However, you may want to leave that 14A alone. Those seniors raised a lot of hell during the SBS process and they are pretty vocal. As a former LES resident I would not want to deal with an infrequent M22 or M9 coveting Essex, Avenue A. So, I would leave the 14A where it is but modify additional stops for a streamlined line in LES. 

As far as Abington Square. Leave that only for the M11 and move the 14A to 18th or Chelsea Piers to stand with the M23. 

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16 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

No Grand Avenue in Manhattan. I help you on the edit portion of your post. 

However, you may want to leave that 14A alone. Those seniors raised a lot of hell during the SBS process and they are pretty vocal. As a former LES resident I would not want to deal with an infrequent M22 or M9 coveting Essex, Avenue A. So, I would leave the 14A where it is but modify additional stops for a streamlined line in LES. 

As far as Abington Square. Leave that only for the M11 and move the 14A to 18th or Chelsea Piers to stand with the M23. 

Trust me I would leave the entire M14 alone, because I know there was fuss even when the (MTA) wanted the M14A to run to W18th street and eliminate Abington Square service. I was only stating my opinion as to what the MTA might do if they try to mess with the M14 again. I can however still see them trying to get rid of Abington Square. 

 

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

What was the frequency and the route though?

Service was very frequent for the Limited, while the locals were less frequent. 

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1 hour ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

Trust me I would leave the entire M14 alone, because I know there was fuss even when the (MTA) wanted the M14A to run to W18th street and eliminate Abington Square service. I was only stating my opinion as to what the MTA might do if they try to mess with the M14 again. I can however still see them trying to get rid of Abington Square. 

I’m right with you on this one. In full agreement with the Abington Square situation. Trust me, those buses definitely don’t belong there. 

Glad we on the same page with the 14A. To your point it’s definite that the (MTA) is trying to take shortcuts with this and put infrequent service primarily on the A side in LES and not touching the D portion. 

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4 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

What was the frequency and the route though?

Frequency was roughly the same as the South Ferry trips. It was always 1 South Ferry Bus, 1 City Hall bus and so-on.

Routing, same as the current M15, right turn onto East Broadway, left onto Chatham Square and follows the current M103 path down.

Edited by Cait Sith

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On 9/11/2019 at 1:48 PM, Future ENY OP said:

23set12.jpg

Spotted in Downtown Brooklyn today. It appears that Outfront has the dimensions for Gleason’s buses. Bus 486. 

Hopefully the LFSs (rigids and artics) are next. I also see no reason why full wraps should not return.

-- REPLY ENDS HERE --

Separately, given how the S79 SBS no longer has a dedicated fleet, is there any reason why there should be a dedicated Select Bus Service wrap? I would take the wraps off and just have the sign be the indicator, along with visible announcements...but (S79 excluded) only blue-and-yellow buses on the SBS (any surplus could then be a local bus). After all, it is not uncommon for SBS-liveried buses at Gun Hill, and sometimes West Farms, to end up on local routes...and someone just posted a video here of a Q44 SBS bus on the Q12...and bus 6234 has seen SBS service in standard livery. After all, when OMNY expands citywide next year, and MetroCard is eventually phased out, the entire system could become proof of payment, similar to how Vancouver is.

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7 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

I’m right with you on this one. In full agreement with the Abington Square situation. Trust me, those buses definitely don’t belong there. 

Glad we on the same page with the 14A. To your point it’s definite that the (MTA) is trying to take shortcuts with this and put infrequent service primarily on the A side in LES and not touching the D portion. 

From my experiences with the route, I’ve had some M14A drivers turn the corner onto 9th Ave and say last stop even though it still has another stop. I noticed from Abington Square buses carry air until they turn onto 14th street.

I don’t even know why they would want to touch the 14A on the Lower East Side because it actually sees decent usage down there and it’s the most frequent out of the M9, M21 and M22. However the M14 does have a bunching problem. The other day I saw 4 M14A’s on Grand after it made the turn off of Columbia Street. 

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