BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[Future ENY OP]

1 minute ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

bro, personally, i wouldn't want WF to have that line/long ass deadhead either (i look at several lines in WF having to have RIDICULOUS run ons/run offs, but only as a consequence of walnut depot no longer being available... but that's another convo for another time) but what other depot option is there if they're "dead set" on running artics on the m125 (which I'm not totally convinced of by the way, but i lend myself believe as a plausible reality knowing this union)? Quill for f***s sake? to be honest, I'm actually beginning to turn back to MV. I'm starting not to believe that they'll run artics at 8 minute headways on 125th Street of all places... that makes no sense. i can see 40 footers which would open up the possibility of MV. I'm almost to the point of wait & see to be honest. also, MV would have to surrender more than just the 106 to take on a line with 8 minute headways thru most of the day, plus, there are no straight 106 only paddles... all are intertwined with the 96 (if I'm not mistaken, at least that's how it was at 100 street when i was there and the 96/106 was there) as far as the m125 is concerned, my opinion as someone pointed out, is that this can't end well (another bus route ending at the congested Hub) and it's a glorified subway shuttle route into the bronx (having done the local/express shuttles, b/o's know what it is) 

I'd say this.. If 96th street wasn't in the convo for SBS. I'd say give up the 96 and 106 to TU.  I'm also at a wait and see process.

I've said this in the past.. Re-activate Amsterdam and part of the mess is fixed (That's a post for another day)..  I'm not 100% if ENY CMF or GA CMF could hold most of the museum buses depending on room and plus artic ops are coming to ENY in the near future so they are going to need their CMF and I think they are doing MTA bus related work there. However, the Upper Manhattan Division has a serious problem in it's hands if they want to make things right. I cannot see West Farms to absorb this work. 

[EastFlatbushLarry]

12 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

I'd say this.. If 96th street wasn't in the convo for SBS. I'd say give up the 96 and 106 to TU.  I'm also at a wait and see process.

I've said this in the past.. Re-activate Amsterdam and part of the mess is fixed (That's a post for another day)..  I'm not 100% if ENY CMF or GA CMF could hold most of the museum buses depending on room and plus artic ops are coming to ENY in the near future so they are going to need their CMF and I think they are doing MTA bus related work there. However, the Upper Manhattan Division has a serious problem in it's hands if they want to make things right. I cannot see West Farms to absorb this work. 

eny is out for the museum buses. east ny cmf has a bus company division (those employees there are TWU Local 100 & belong to the TWU collective of bus company yards) 

as far as GA CMF: there's too much work in & out of that place to house museum buses (unless they create a satellite yard(s) a la east ny (havens, williams)) 

as far as Amsterdam is concerned: if that place took on artics, it'd be another Hunnit Street (3 lines max, depending on the run count) if there were 40 footers, 3-5 lines depending on the run count. regardless the south bronx & upper Manhattan is a mess depot wise. 

Edited November 20, 2019 by EastFlatbushLarry

[MHV184]

20 minutes ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

bro, personally, i wouldn't want WF to have that line/long ass deadhead either (i look at several lines in WF having to have RIDICULOUS run ons/run offs, but only as a consequence of walnut depot no longer being available... but that's another convo for another time) but what other depot option is there if they're "dead set" on running artics on the m125 (which I'm not totally convinced of by the way, but i lend myself believe as a plausible reality knowing this union)? Quill for f***s sake? to be honest, I'm actually beginning to turn back to MV. I'm starting not to believe that they'll run artics at 8 minute headways on 125th Street of all places... that makes no sense. i can see 40 footers which would open up the possibility of MV. I'm almost to the point of wait & see to be honest. also, MV would have to surrender more than just the 106 to take on a line with 8 minute headways thru most of the day, plus, there are no straight 106 only paddles... all are intertwined with the 96 (if I'm not mistaken, at least that's how it was at 100 street when i was there and the 96/106 was there) as far as the m125 is concerned, my opinion as someone pointed out, is that this can't end well (another bus route ending at the congested Hub) and it's a glorified subway shuttle route into the bronx (having done the local/express shuttles, b/o's know what it is) 

This is my opinion and please feel free in telling me your opinions as well. I believe the M125 should go to Manhattanville without giving up anything. It has come to a point where they either have Manhattanville store more buses or suffer some consequences on having buses deadhead to the terminal whether it be KB or WF and have problems with keeping the schedule. In addition I don't know why it has become a problem for Manhattanville to hold more buses it has happened before that Manhattanville has reached up to 289 buses at some point why can't it happen now

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

thank you. homie missed the entire point of the convo. this discussion has nothing to do with providing bronx/3rd Avenue service. it's about bronx passengers being provided better service (or specified service/treatment) to be able to get in & out of Harlem WITHOUT the bronx/3rd Avenue corridor being adversely affected.

I don't agree with the suggestion/implication, but I don't see it as him missing the point though..... He was responding to your comment about how dismal the Bx15 LTD is in the Bronx as a result of the situation that plagues 125th.....

His premise as to how Bronx pax. be provided better service, entails the revocation of an interborough Bx15 LTD & supplanting it with a Bx55 resurrection (to maintain intraborough LTD service), to have alternate Bx15 locals running into Manhattan..... Instead of splitting the thing, lessen the frequency of Bx15's running in/out of Manhattan....

- Lawrence St says: at least keep the coverage (Fordham ↔ 125th/12th), but do so at a lesser rate...
- MTA says: f*** the coverage - deal with this 2-seat ride & shut up...

1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

The M125 would be a more inadequate replacement for the Bx15, and on top of that, the M100. The thing is, most of the Bronx ridership going into Harlem comes from points north of 149th Street. There are people who get on in Mott Haven, but there's more people from north of 149th on those buses. Personally, I would have the Bx15 at the very least run to Lexington Ave & 125th Street (and add service onto the M100) instead of killing off both the Bx15 and M100 for this M125.  As far as Amsterdam Avenue service is concerned, I can only see this M125 pushing more people onto the M101 (which already runs like crap), which would be a disaster. The M125 plan has to be one of the more terrible ideas, if not the most terrible out of all the local route proposals of the redesign.

The MTA's going to learn real quick that this M125 won't take people that are traveling within 125th off of M60's and M101's.... Neutering the M100 for the purpose of making the M125 more attractive, will loom irrelevant.... To put it another way, coming out with this M125 will magnify the redundancy along 125th - since there's going to be less unique pax. utilizing the thing (compared to anyone through-riding on the Bx15)....

 

[EastFlatbushLarry]

4 minutes ago, MHV184 said:

This is my opinion and please feel free in telling me your opinions as well. I believe the M125 should go to Manhattanville without giving up anything. It has come to a point where they either have Manhattanville store more buses or suffer some consequences on having buses deadhead to the terminal whether it be KB or WF and have problems with keeping the schedule. In addition I don't know why it has become a problem for Manhattanville to hold more buses it has happened before that Manhattanville has reached up to 289 buses at some point why can't it happen now

because management doesn't want that going on in that area anymore (harlem was & has consistently been hostile to bus depots due to air quality/asthma, and you can't blame the community for feeling that way) also, the hostility comes from the unwillingness to have buses parked on the street, which is what it would take to house that many buses at MV. just because something happened once upon a time doesn't mean that it's a practice that is practical in today's climate (especially with the gentrification of harlem) or that it's a practice that should continue or won't go unopposed. Yukon Depot used to house upwards of 300 buses, Castleton used to house 300 buses (also in a residential area), so did East NY & Flatbush... is that really practical/ideal in a residential community? no, it's not way too many things can go wrong. when you talk about 100 street, two-six, OF, Amsterdam & MV, please take into consideration that all of these yards are directly surrounded by vocal Harlem residential communities that despise the existence of said depots in the first place, so why make more problems for themselves (from a managements perspective)

both 100 street & OF's rebuilds involved strict rules (from the DOB) regarding all depot operations beings internal (inside the depot) so it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that Manhattanville also takes a page from that book as much as possible.

[EastFlatbushLarry]

4 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

I don't agree with the suggestion/implication, but I don't see it as him missing the point though..... He was responding to your comment about how dismal the Bx15 LTD is in the Bronx as a result of the situation that plagues 125th.....

His premise as to how Bronx pax. be provided better service, entails the revocation of an interborough Bx15 LTD & supplanting it with a Bx55 resurrection (to maintain intraborough LTD service), to have alternate Bx15 locals running into Manhattan..... Instead of splitting the thing, lessen the frequency of Bx15's running in/out of Manhattan....

- Lawrence St says: at least keep the coverage (Fordham ↔ 125th/12th), but do so at a lesser rate...
- MTA says: f*** the coverage - deal with this 2-seat ride & shut up...

The MTA's going to learn real quick that this M125 won't take people that are traveling within 125th off of M60's and M101's.... Neutering the M100 for the purpose of making the M125 more attractive, will loom irrelevant.... To put it another way, coming out with this M125 will magnify the redundancy along 125th - since there's going to be less unique pax. utilizing the thing (compared to anyone through-riding on the Bx15)....

 

i can see your (and his) point (after re-reading). can't say i ever fully was on board with sending limiteds to west harlem (always felt limiteds should've gotten a Hub short-sign) yet as has been highlighted, they could've had locals alternate between the hub & 12 avenue. but, again i stand by my original premise, it really doesn't matter which branch serves two-five and the bx (3rd Avenue) it's all shite during the day. I've never seen bx15's in or out of Manhattan not being utilized or empty (carrying air) as opposed to the local 15's along 3rd Avenue. idk if that's a testament to the 41 on webster, but i do know that people will take the m15 or M101/103 Uptown to catch the bx15 (Bellevue hospital/30th street intake shelter employees for example) i feel for those people who may have to endure a 3 legged trip if they refuse to take the train into the bronx from east harlem for example. i can't subscribe to the theory of maintaining the bx15 as is (regardless of limiteds or locals into harlem) at decreased headways. i guess because of the history of the Bx15 and the train, that Morrisania & Melrose are conjoined to Harlem. i know several residents, elderly or otherwise, that use the 15 for the ebt office, social security, WIC, etc. and those services are provided in Harlem, which, according to them (believe it or not) is more accessible to them by using the 15 as opposed to othe parts of the bronx. so I'm somewhat conflicted. I'm not going to say increase headway aka throw a gang of buses at the problem & hope the problem resolves itself and I'm not convinced about decreasing headway for a route to/from the Hub to 12 avenue either because of the gaping hole in service due to the M101 issues & the elimination of 125th Street service from the m100. damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

I'm gonna take the path of least resistance in my mind which is to say that the very first thing that needs to be hashed out is what can be done to ease the ever-existing traffic situation regarding the on-ramp to the triboro bridge. that's where the problem stems from. it's not about how many bus lines traverse 125th Street or double parking along one two-five (which doesn't help matters) or how many people take the Bx15 (or Bx19) into the bronx as a consequence of the IRT lines ( ) being overcrowded.. i don't have a solution nor did i ever claim to, but what's currently in place sucks and what's proposed will suck even more.

to your second point: i agree wholeheartedly. what management is banking on is that the M125 will somehow be enticing to m101 customers who are pissed off by late/no-show m101's and enticing to m15 (second avenue) customers coming from the west side. this is what they've been hoping for from the m100 all these years, and what's been happening? westbound/Uptown 100's are SRO by the time we (KB b/o's) bend the corner on Amsterdam. eastbound, we carry air. what's going to happen is:

1) people are still gonna be stuck waiting for m101's (which will be more packed due to savvy m100 customers catching the 101 at 161 Street or 135 Street) 

2) more people will try to farebeat on (or board) the SBS m60 (if there's room) to get from Amsterdam to second (and all points in between) 

3) the M125 will be a distinct afterthought for x-town travel, anyway.. it'll only "attract" bronx passengers as those buses will more than likely be SRO by Lenox. those car services are gonna collect bank on two-five, little do they know. so basically, management has figured out a way to make a bad situation slightly worse.

[S78 via Hylan]

You guys need to attend the meetings and speak out before these redesigns take place.

[Future ENY OP]

Just spotted 4336 being towed back to Flatbush. It appears it was in a bad accident this morning. 

[B35 via Church]

7 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

i can see your (and his) point (after re-reading). can't say i ever fully was on board with sending limiteds to west harlem (always felt limiteds should've gotten a Hub short-sign) yet as has been highlighted, they could've had locals alternate between the hub & 12 avenue. but, again i stand by my original premise, it really doesn't matter which branch serves two-five and the bx (3rd Avenue) it's all shite during the day. I've never seen bx15's in or out of Manhattan not being utilized or empty (carrying air) as opposed to the local 15's along 3rd Avenue. idk if that's a testament to the 41 on webster, but i do know that people will take the m15 or M101/103 Uptown to catch the bx15 (Bellevue hospital/30th street intake shelter employees for example) i feel for those people who may have to endure a 3 legged trip if they refuse to take the train into the bronx from east harlem for example. i can't subscribe to the theory of maintaining the bx15 as is (regardless of limiteds or locals into harlem) at decreased headways. i guess because of the history of the Bx15 and the train, that Morrisania & Melrose are conjoined to Harlem. i know several residents, elderly or otherwise, that use the 15 for the ebt office, social security, WIC, etc. and those services are provided in Harlem, which, according to them (believe it or not) is more accessible to them by using the 15 as opposed to othe parts of the bronx. so I'm somewhat conflicted. I'm not going to say increase headway aka throw a gang of buses at the problem & hope the problem resolves itself and I'm not convinced about decreasing headway for a route to/from the Hub to 12 avenue either because of the gaping hole in service due to the M101 issues & the elimination of 125th Street service from the m100. damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

I'm gonna take the path of least resistance in my mind which is to say that the very first thing that needs to be hashed out is what can be done to ease the ever-existing traffic situation regarding the on-ramp to the triboro bridge. that's where the problem stems from. it's not about how many bus lines traverse 125th Street or double parking along one two-five (which doesn't help matters) or how many people take the Bx15 (or Bx19) into the bronx as a consequence of the IRT lines ( ) being overcrowded.. i don't have a solution nor did i ever claim to, but what's currently in place sucks and what's proposed will suck even more.

The way I see it, as it pertains to the Bx15, it's less of an issue of service type (LTD's vs. locals) & more of an issue of how much of 125th the Bx15 serves.... IDK of the distant history of the route per se, but I've never cared for the Bx15 having/needing to run all the way to 12th specifically.... The main issue I have with splitting the Bx15 is that of decimating network coverage from Bronxites....

Don't sit up there & tell me that the Bx19 is to be left alone because it's straight, direct, makes lots of important connections, and transports a lot of people (as if we don't know this already) - but yet, sever direct coverage to/from Manhattan, as if the Bx15 doesn't make the same "important" connections to other routes in the Bronx, doesn't carry a lot of people, and doesn't have the same "direct" route structure.... It's a slap in the face & I would be ultimately livid if I was an actual daily Bx15 rider & what not.... I can see it already - more people bolting for the subway, the minute the (impending/truncated) Bx15 reaches the Hub....

Something else that we know is that, yes, 125th is a chaotic mess & something should be done about it (as far as the buses are concerned).... I'm not even the person saying *leave 125th as is* (that's part of the problem too, people neglecting change for the sake of change) - I'm the person saying, you have the resources, you have the time & expense to analyze the whole network & pump out a solution that can efficiently quell the situation along 125th as far as bus service goes, and this is what you come up with?

• Sever the Bx15, cut the M100 off at the knees, and leave the remnant to be representative of (maintaining) service west of Amsterdam & maintaining a meager amount of Bronx-Manhattan coverage as far east as the Hub?

That's that 2 for the price of 1 shit (or 2 birds, 1 stone if you prefer) - the same reason the M101 apparently has this immunity; 2 for the price of 1 (one route taking 3rd/lex riders along 125th & taking Amsterdam riders along 125th).....

While I do have ideas/suggestions, I don't proclaim to have the smoking gun here either - but I refuse to believe that keeping the Bx15 in-house (as in, an intraborough route) for the sake of birthing a 125th st crosstown, is that silver bullet..... There has long been this sort of pressure (or w/e you wanna call it) to drum up a 125th st crosstown (much like a "West side route") & now it's going to come to fruition......

As far as the crux of your 2nd paragraph, in the grand scheme of things, right - Buses/bus service has long been a pinata/scapegoat for the cause of congestion (the bigger the vehicle, the more road space it takes up) - but at the same time, is one of the go to solutions whenever it comes to trying to get people up out of their cars... Imagine that

I can't speak from an op's perspective, but for as long as their days are long, I'll continue to say that this agency is not in it for the riding public.

4 hours ago, S78 via Hylan said:

You guys need to attend the meetings and speak out before these redesigns take place.

I need to be one of these people at the planning table making decisions, not one of these people on my knees begging for mercy for the f*** s*** that's already set in stone (pardon the french)..... I'm on vacation right now, but to me, it's a matter of principle - Three minutes (or however little time they give you) to speak, under the guise that my opinion will make a difference, is a waste of my time, quite honestly.

Edited November 20, 2019 by B35 via Church

[B35 via Church]

7 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

.....to your second point: i agree wholeheartedly. what management is banking on is that the M125 will somehow be enticing to m101 customers who are pissed off by late/no-show m101's and enticing to m15 (second avenue) customers coming from the west side. this is what they've been hoping for from the m100 all these years, and what's been happening? westbound/Uptown 100's are SRO by the time we (KB b/o's) bend the corner on Amsterdam. eastbound, we carry air. what's going to happen is:

1) people are still gonna be stuck waiting for m101's (which will be more packed due to savvy m100 customers catching the 101 at 161 Street or 135 Street) 

2) more people will try to farebeat on (or board) the SBS m60 (if there's room) to get from Amsterdam to second (and all points in between) 

3) the M125 will be a distinct afterthought for x-town travel, anyway.. it'll only "attract" bronx passengers as those buses will more than likely be SRO by Lenox. those car services are gonna collect bank on two-five, little do they know. so basically, management has figured out a way to make a bad situation slightly worse.

I don't care for the M101 being this untouchable of sorts (makes you think as to why they deliberately chose to truncate the M100 instead of the M101, as far as Amsterdam service goes).... Their ultimate aim with this M125 bit is to have intra-Manhattan riders all refrain from embarking on M60's & M101's & taking "the crosstown" instead..... That's not even wishful thinking, that's simply devoid of reality - especially given that all three routes will still have stops along 125th... Also, this notion that Bronxites (current Bx15 riders) will be pacified because the thing will still run to the Hub, rubs me the wrong way.... The MTA has a tendency to minimize the value of network coverage (do we even have to talk about what's being done with the Bronx expresses) & brush off the bastardization (or complete revocation) of it as something that won't affect too many riders..... The MTA needs to come to grips that there are more quote-unquote distance riders in the city than they like to let on & not everyone wants to cram onto a subway train for that purpose.....

I agree with your assessment & all 3 of your bullet points..... To #1, my concern is that the M100 will be severely bastardized along Amsterdam av... I know you know this, but for anyone that doesn't know that's reading - Once upon a time, the M101 used to be king along Amsterdam av & the M100 used to be an afterthought along their mutual portions.... I can't pinpoint when it exactly happened (because the phenomenon was gradual), but it got to a point where the M100 was used more interchangeably with the M101 - to the point where you started seeing artics at random junctures on the M100... I remember the posts on RD & subchat; the M100 doesn't deserve artics, are you sure that wasn't an M101, something must have happened with the M101, stop the lies, yada yada yada..... I would even argue a paradigm shift took place; as in, the M100 being the more sought after route along Amsterdam (due to the woes plaguing the M101 further down the route; i.e. 3rd/Lex).... You'd have been lambasted (lol) on the online transit forums if you told someone you saw a bone empty (or close enough to it) SB M101 at some point along 125th say, 20 or so years ago... Now somebody tells me that, and it's like, meh, I'm not surprised - especially if it's a 96th st shorty..... So yeah, this service/network change will have the M101 being the more prominent route of choice again along Amsterdam....

I don't mean to laugh, but Bullet point #2 was the very first thing that came to mind upon reading y'alls posts in this discussion, before I posted last night.... Obviously I don't condone it, but the thieves aren't going to give up the free ride they're accustomed to on crushloaded M60's & will be miffed that they won't have a crushloaded Bx15 anymore to farebeat on.... Getting up in arms for the wrong reasons & shit... Lol... Anyway, sure, people will still utilize the M125 on the strength of "a bus is a bus", but there is no way in all of the free world that those buses are going to be as crushloaded 1] as & 2] at the rate that Bx15's currently are... To expect 100% turnover, again, is f***ing delusional.....

Bullet point #3 is my stance in summary; there isn't a need for a quote-unquote *official* 125th st crosstown.... It's enough that you got rid of the M100 along 125th, but you didn't do enough (hell, they didn't do anything) to the M60 & the M101 to make the M125 as attractive as whatever grandiose vision they have for the thing anyway.....

No consolation prize, but at least they didn't go full retard.

[Lawrence St]

23 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Let the MTA tell it: "...the route is straight, direct, has high ridership, and connects to several important destinations and transfer points."

Aside from their double standard, The Bx19 is another one of these routes that's in the running for an eventual SBS conversion.....

I love how they leave out "is also unreliable, prone to multiple delays along the route, and is regularly complained about."

[B35 via Church]

6 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I love how they leave out "is also unreliable, prone to multiple delays along the route, and is regularly complained about."

In their defense, it would become redundant..... That very thing can be said for almost any local route in the whole dam borough !

[paulrivera]

On 11/19/2019 at 12:48 PM, Lex said:

And what would really differentiate the Bx15 and Bx55? Is it service north of Fordham Road? If so, that's not happening.

Webster’s also getting increased SBS service and the Bx34 is going to run there between Fordham and 204th Street.

North of Fordham Road is well covered. If anything, I worry about the M125 portion of the route, especially if they give it the M55 treatment (less service and/or a downgrade from artics)

[Lawrence St]

18 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

Webster’s also getting increased SBS service and the Bx34 is going to run there between Fordham and 204th Street.

North of Fordham Road is well covered. If anything, I worry about the M125 portion of the route, especially if they give it the M55 treatment (less service and/or a downgrade from artics)

I was told the M125 would utilize articulated buses, but I honestly would just rather have the M100 over a whole new route. 

[Calvin]

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-dollar-van-brooklyn-bus-crash-20191120-npyj3ekcdrg4tavpcicd6ryo2u-story.html?fbclid=IwAR1mpBADbejo9B5OL3EXB9Vkt5s_0j7jDNaKByfCeQD8mWRukw-80D1YsaY

Incident earlier: dollar van hit and run at Flatbush 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Calvin

[Iron Valiant]

1 hour ago, Calvin said:

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-dollar-van-brooklyn-bus-crash-20191120-npyj3ekcdrg4tavpcicd6ryo2u-story.html?fbclid=IwAR1mpBADbejo9B5OL3EXB9Vkt5s_0j7jDNaKByfCeQD8mWRukw-80D1YsaY

Incident earlier: dollar van hit and run at Flatbush 

You know the unit by any chance?

[Future ENY OP]

1 hour ago, Snorunts said:

You know the unit by any chance?

4336. I saw that accident this morning. Dollar van was speeding on Flatbush. His whole right side went into the bus.  That bus will be out of service for a bit. 

[Axis]

https://www.mediafire.com/view/b0hlfectoel8kix/97A5A2BD-2AB4-45BD-96A5-A7E3CC585A79.png/file

[WestFarms36]

2 hours ago, Axis said:

https://www.mediafire.com/view/b0hlfectoel8kix/97A5A2BD-2AB4-45BD-96A5-A7E3CC585A79.png/file

Do you expect everyone to play this game of duck duck goose, or will you use your time wisely while you wait for your 1,829,756 Minute Bus on the Q44 SBS, Bx39, or Q114 to explain and make your point which in all honesty is usually full of sh*t, or will you go give a Spanky or Whip the Dispatchers because the route allegedly stops running, or the buses are bunched, or far, or the Drivers are trying to practice National Grandmother's Driving day...

[Melbx15]

12 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

The way I see it, as it pertains to the Bx15, it's less of an issue of service type (LTD's vs. locals) & more of an issue of how much of 125th the Bx15 serves.... IDK of the distant history of the route per se, but I've never cared for the Bx15 having/needing to run all the way to 12th specifically.... The main issue I have with splitting the Bx15 is that of decimating network coverage from Bronxites....

Don't sit up there & tell me that the Bx19 is to be left alone because it's straight, direct, makes lots of important connections, and transports a lot of people (as if we don't know this already) - but yet, sever direct coverage to/from Manhattan, as if the Bx15 doesn't make the same "important" connections to other routes in the Bronx, doesn't carry a lot of people, and doesn't have the same "direct" route structure.... It's a slap in the face & I would be ultimately livid if I was an actual daily Bx15 rider & what not.... I can see it already - more people bolting for the subway, the minute the (impending/truncated) Bx15 reaches the Hub....

Something else that we know is that, yes, 125th is a chaotic mess & something should be done about it (as far as the buses are concerned).... I'm not even the person saying *leave 125th as is* (that's part of the problem too, people neglecting change for the sake of change) - I'm the person saying, you have the resources, you have the time & expense to analyze the whole network & pump out a solution that can efficiently quell the situation along 125th as far as bus service goes, and this is what you come up with?

• Sever the Bx15, cut the M100 off at the knees, and leave the remnant to be representative of (maintaining) service west of Amsterdam & maintaining a meager amount of Bronx-Manhattan coverage as far east as the Hub?

That's that 2 for the price of 1 shit (or 2 birds, 1 stone if you prefer) - the same reason the M101 apparently has this immunity; 2 for the price of 1 (one route taking 3rd/lex riders along 125th & taking Amsterdam riders along 125th).....

While I do have ideas/suggestions, I don't proclaim to have the smoking gun here either - but I refuse to believe that keeping the Bx15 in-house (as in, an intraborough route) for the sake of birthing a 125th st crosstown, is that silver bullet..... There has long been this sort of pressure (or w/e you wanna call it) to drum up a 125th st crosstown (much like a "West side route") & now it's going to come to fruition......

As far as the crux of your 2nd paragraph, in the grand scheme of things, right - Buses/bus service has long been a pinata/scapegoat for the cause of congestion (the bigger the vehicle, the more road space it takes up) - but at the same time, is one of the go to solutions whenever it comes to trying to get people up out of their cars... Imagine that

I can't speak from an op's perspective, but for as long as their days are long, I'll continue to say that this agency is not in it for the riding public.

I need to be one of these people at the planning table making decisions, not one of these people on my knees begging for mercy for the f*** s*** that's already set in stone (pardon the french)..... I'm on vacation right now, but to me, it's a matter of principle - Three minutes (or however little time they give you) to speak, under the guise that my opinion will make a difference, is a waste of my time, quite honestly.

Omg you been saying Exactly what I’ve been trying to say but nobody wants to fight along with me 

[checkmatechamp13]

On 11/19/2019 at 11:27 AM, Future ENY OP said:

Bx46 could of easily be extended to the Stadium & . I’m not 100% sold for it to be at The Hub. At least with the stadium it could stand with the Bx13 which has some space vs The Hub 

I would definitely prefer Yankee Stadium. But I threw The Hub out as an alternative terminal just in case. 

On 11/19/2019 at 11:33 AM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It's clear from speaking with two of the senior planners last week at the  offices that they have positions about each and every bus line. Whatever they wrote for the Bx46 about the routing in their proposals is what they want for the line, mainly based off of the costs associated with it.  If the line is going to run every 30 minutes, then they don't care a thing about extending it further. They are content with the ridership it'll get at 30 minute head ways because they won't have to spend more money to run more service, and that's what it comes down to. Not saying it's right or wrong, but that's how they think.

And just like on Staten Island with the Hylan Blvd express routes, they're shooting themselves in the foot by being this stubborn. An extension to Yankee Stadium would take (a small amount) of pressure off the Bx6 and would allow them to reduce service on that line slightly while still providing service to where the passengers need to go.

On 11/19/2019 at 11:38 AM, Future ENY OP said:

Don’t ask. The same way they could of split the Bx15, they could of did it with the Bx19. I will say one thing to you. The  is not vested on creating other new routes. 

According to them, the Bx19 has less turnover at any one point compared to the Bx15 (having spoken to some of the planners in-person).

On 11/19/2019 at 12:03 PM, Lawrence St said:

But why not just bring back the Bx55 and eliminate the Bx15 LTD? Have alternating Bx15 trips between Fordham Plaza & Manhattan like how the M101 does north of 96th St.

It doesn't make sense to have the shorter trips run limited while the longer trips run local.

On 11/19/2019 at 12:50 PM, Lawrence St said:

You restore LTD service to Williamsbridge that way.

Considering the Bx41-SBS will be running every 8 minutes or better the whole day (and the Bx34 running down Webster), you can forget about a Third Avenue-Williamsbridge connection being restored. The people will just have to make their way to/from Webster, or transfer at Fordham Plaza.

On 11/19/2019 at 10:42 PM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

The M125 would be a more inadequate replacement for the Bx15, and on top of that, the M100. The thing is, most of the Bronx ridership going into Harlem comes from points north of 149th Street. There are people who get on in Mott Haven, but there's more people from north of 149th on those buses. Personally, I would have the Bx15 at the very least run to Lexington Ave & 125th Street (and add service onto the M100) instead of killing off both the Bx15 and M100 for this M125.  As far as Amsterdam Avenue service is concerned, I can only see this M125 pushing more people onto the M101 (which already runs like crap), which would be a disaster. The M125 plan has to be one of the more terrible ideas, if not the most terrible out of all the local route proposals of the redesign.

I mentioned it repeatedly at the public meetings that it makes no sense to change the M100 without doing anything about the unreliability of the M101 (and I don't want to hear anything about the Manhattan redesign in a couple of years. It must be done concurrently with the M100 change). There's a difference between the natural travel patterns requiring a transfer, and people being forced into an M125-M100 transfer because they can't deal with the M101's unreliability. The M100 may be a Bronx Division route, but its entire route is within Manhattan and it shares a significant ridership base with the M101 along the 125th-Amsterdam corridor. 

23 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

While I will agree with you with regards to KB deadhead being very long for the M125 but I don’t agree with the long deadhead from West Farms. Bad enough they don’t get the 15 as of January and me thinks that 15/125 interline would be good. However, I’m glad you pointed this out for me that it won’t work. 

Preferably the M125 should go to MV. However, I would like them to give up the M106 to TU in order to have the M125. 

 

23 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

bro, personally, i wouldn't want WF to have that line/long ass deadhead either (i look at several lines in WF having to have RIDICULOUS run ons/run offs, but only as a consequence of walnut depot no longer being available... but that's another convo for another time) but what other depot option is there if they're "dead set" on running artics on the m125 (which I'm not totally convinced of by the way, but i lend myself believe as a plausible reality knowing this union)? Quill for f***s sake? to be honest, I'm actually beginning to turn back to MV. I'm starting not to believe that they'll run artics at 8 minute headways on 125th Street of all places... that makes no sense. i can see 40 footers which would open up the possibility of MV. I'm almost to the point of wait & see to be honest. also, MV would have to surrender more than just the 106 to take on a line with 8 minute headways thru most of the day, plus, there are no straight 106 only paddles... all are intertwined with the 96 (if I'm not mistaken, at least that's how it was at 100 street when i was there and the 96/106 was there) as far as the m125 is concerned, my opinion as someone pointed out, is that this can't end well (another bus route ending at the congested Hub) and it's a glorified subway shuttle route into the bronx (having done the local/express shuttles, b/o's know what it is) 

Beat me to it. The M125 is going to have much more service than the M106.

[NewFlyer 230]

On 11/19/2019 at 10:10 PM, Calvin said:

The other day, 4742 was on the Q44-SBS going to Jamaica then back to Flushing-Main St

They used another 2013 XD60 on the Q44 again on Wednesday as I saw one of them turn off from Jewel Ave onto Main Street at around 3:10ish. 

[Cait Sith]

1 hour ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

They used another 2013 XD60 on the Q44 again on Wednesday as I saw one of them turn off from Jewel Ave onto Main Street at around 3:10ish. 

School tripper.

[EastFlatbushLarry]

5 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

According to them, the Bx19 has less turnover at any one point compared to the Bx15 (having spoken to some of the planners in-person).

 

5 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

bx15: It doesn't make sense to have the shorter trips run limited while the longer trips run local.

re: the bx19... there's a concrete passenger base that actually rides thru the hub to & from southern blvd & 145 street. it's one of those rare long(er) lines (in my  opinion) that's a true x-town, where people actually use it to go across town into harlem... including the elderly who want nothing to do with climbing the ridiculous steps upstairs to the train/don't want to ride the train in general.

re: the bx15... i was saying this only after doing the 15 local on the extra list over the summer (which isn't a large sample size for the Bx15 corridor overall, I'll admit) but in general, over the years, I've never seen bone dry 15 limiteds heading in & out of Harlem. however, i have seen 15 locals (utilizing artic units) carry air south of Claremont or 169 at any point of the day.

in general, I'm not saying my word letalone anyone else's is the holy word of God so to speak, but both situations could've been/should be handled better than the current level of effort currently presented. the logical conclusion I've come to is that they're absolutely rushing this redesign. and it's really sad, because as someone pointed out, this is a unique opportunity to start with a blank canvas & mold a network based on current conditions. 

[bwwnyc123]

M100 serves as a relief along 125 St because usually when someone is traveling up along Amsterdam Av, M101 buses are crushloaded and M100 is the relief because it starts at 2 Av and those buses are empty. They should also put some more artics on the M100 to handle the crowd more those who could get on a Crushloaded M101 bus.

Edited November 21, 2019 by bwwnyc123