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EE Broadway Local

BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

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2 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

The union can only do but so much, especially when the ridership demands it. Unions fought CBTC in the subways, and now look...

Unions can be good, but they tend to be stuck in the past and fail to modernize, some things just require upgrades, it's a part of life. 

They didn't really fight against CBTC in the Subway IIRC.

ATU 726 is a whole different beast compared to TWU Local 100, they get shit done.

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Now why would there be a B99 in the middle of the Manhattan Bridge at 6:20 in the morning here, if the last trip leaving Manhattan is at 4:50???

 

EMGmEoL.gif

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On 7/3/2020 at 4:33 AM, BreeddekalbL said:

There is no way that artics would work in si, like the tight streets, hell I don't even think any of the depots ok maybe Charleston can take them

I actually see Yukon as more likely...for the St. George to Matrix Park route (I won't call it the S40 as it won't work running on the Terrace), the S79, and the S93 (S93 in a W pattern with the S79). The S93 would have the B1 rationale for articulated bus usage...need for up-gauging.

Also why I see Yukon as more likely...Arthur Kill Road isn't exactly wide by Charleston Depot, while Yukon and Independence Avenues are unusually wide for short streets by the Yukon Depot. I do see another articulated bus order coming, but by the time this happens, OMNY will be systemwide and there will be no need for front door-only boarding on any route. Yukon would probably need somewhere around 60 LFS articulated buses.

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4 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Now why would there be a B99 in the middle of the Manhattan Bridge at 6:20 in the morning here, if the last trip leaving Manhattan is at 4:50???

 

EMGmEoL.gif

That's probably the last bus of the night either doing its last trip of the night, or it was an N.I.S. bus just dead heading back to the depot.

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34 minutes ago, Flatbush SBS Duece said:

That's probably the last bus of the night either doing its last trip of the night, or it was an N.I.S. bus just dead heading back to the depot.

- That's what I'm getting at (if it was the last SB trip)... Why would it be that late? Nothing leaving CC around 5am should be hitting the bridge at 6:20....

- If it was that last NB trip DH-ing back to the depot (which is also possible), well it just so happened to follow the exact course of the route from W. 47th/48th on down to Flatbush av... I was waiting for the bus to "disappear" on bustime, but it never did, until it got to Flatbush av....

===================================

When I first checked bustime around 6am earlier, there were 2 SB B99's depicted - the one in the screenshot (which was around W. 47th/48th at the time) & another one around Foster av.... I honestly was expecting to see that "No scheduled service for the B99 to _____________ at this time" message, for both directions....

See, the MTA is advertising this thing as running between (approximately) 1-6am & I've been trying to figure out if there's another trip{s} that's not being shown on the schedule on the website (which is why I reference a 4:50 trip as being the last of the night)..... Now if there's a 5:50 trip leaving CC hitting the bridge at 6:20, that makes sense - The problem is, that trip isn't shown on the schedule.....

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5 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

I actually see Yukon as more likely...for the St. George to Matrix Park route (I won't call it the S40 as it won't work running on the Terrace), the S79, and the S93 (S93 in a W pattern with the S79). The S93 would have the B1 rationale for articulated bus usage...need for up-gauging.

Also why I see Yukon as more likely...Arthur Kill Road isn't exactly wide by Charleston Depot, while Yukon and Independence Avenues are unusually wide for short streets by the Yukon Depot. I do see another articulated bus order coming, but by the time this happens, OMNY will be systemwide and there will be no need for front door-only boarding on any route. Yukon would probably need somewhere around 60 LFS articulated buses.

Charleston can fit artics and all the possible artic lines would deadhead using 440 and Korean Vets. That side of Arthur Kill Road is wide. 

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4 minutes ago, SevenEleven said:

Charleston can fit artics and all the possible artic lines would deadhead using 440 and Korean Vets. That side of Arthur Kill Road is wide. 

Wherever a Prevost can run, an artic should have no issue as well. 

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Posted (edited)

With Staten Island being the closest of the five boroughs to Newark Airport, I wonder why the S98 Limited hasn't been extended to serve it. Could it be because there's not enough potential demandd? That'smy guess.

Edited by lara8710

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22 minutes ago, lara8710 said:

With Staten Island being the closest of the five boroughs to Newark Airport, I wonder why the S98 Limited hasn't been extended to serve it. Could it be because there's not enough potential demandd? That'smy guess.

No, because of all the bureaucratic issues involved with running between states.

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It makes too much sense. It's logical. It actually helps people. So therefore it can't be done, or can it?

A re-imagined s48, s48 +SBS+ or s98 +SBS+

In my opinion, the s48 would be the best candidate for an articulated bus +SBS+ or +SBS+ Lite or a perma-super Limited.

First and foremost it connects with almost every local route in the Staten Island Division.

It is straight and flat with the notable exception of the 1/3 portion between the S I Ferry and the western portion of Silver Lake Park. This will definitely be an issue during inclement winter weather.

My revised s48 +SBS+ or s98 Super Limited would have the route going straight down Forest and take the straight and logical route to Amazon/Matrix Park.

Concurrent legacy s48 will "fill in the gaps" and would trail behind the artic bus and will remain unchanged.

Schedules to be mindful of employer start/end times.

The existing s40/s90

A ridership survey should be done to determine if ridership is coming from the 1/4 to 1/3 mile of the s40/s90 service (excluding 1/4 mile of the SI Ferry)  area to determine what level of ridership is originating from these areas.

Using the ridership data the s40/s90 could revert back to its original terminal at the Howland Hook Container Terminal (or whatever they are calling it these days) if in fact ridership is indeed originating from Ferry or riders transferring from other buses.

We can safely bet that the busway along Richmond Terrace or any capital project is delayed indefinitely given the delays.


Just my personal thoughts.

I have another idea that Uncle Jeff could possibly entertain, but I will hold back for now.

 

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1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

No, because of all the bureaucratic issues involved with running between states.

If that's so, how did the S89 come to life?

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43 minutes ago, lara8710 said:

If that's so, how did the S89 come to life?

As if to say what?

Asking how it came to life, doesn't somehow refute or nullify the overall point being made with that.... The S89 (finally) coming to fruition when it did, doesn't remotely mean that the floodgates will start opening (with the MTA operating interstate bus routes)...... That's not how it works.... We're not exactly talking about popping cherries here....

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18 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Unions fought CBTC in the subways, and now look...

To be quite clear, they fought full-length OPTO enabled by CBTC, and they won that fight pretty convincingly...

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9 hours ago, 161 New York said:

It makes too much sense. It's logical. It actually helps people. So therefore it can't be done, or can it?

A re-imagined s48, s48 +SBS+ or s98 +SBS+

In my opinion, the s48 would be the best candidate for an articulated bus +SBS+ or +SBS+ Lite or a perma-super Limited.

First and foremost it connects with almost every local route in the Staten Island Division.

It is straight and flat with the notable exception of the 1/3 portion between the S I Ferry and the western portion of Silver Lake Park. This will definitely be an issue during inclement winter weather.

My revised s48 +SBS+ or s98 Super Limited would have the route going straight down Forest and take the straight and logical route to Amazon/Matrix Park.

Concurrent legacy s48 will "fill in the gaps" and would trail behind the artic bus and will remain unchanged.

Schedules to be mindful of employer start/end times.

The existing s40/s90

A ridership survey should be done to determine if ridership is coming from the 1/4 to 1/3 mile of the s40/s90 service (excluding 1/4 mile of the SI Ferry)  area to determine what level of ridership is originating from these areas.

Using the ridership data the s40/s90 could revert back to its original terminal at the Howland Hook Container Terminal (or whatever they are calling it these days) if in fact ridership is indeed originating from Ferry or riders transferring from other buses.

We can safely bet that the busway along Richmond Terrace or any capital project is delayed indefinitely given the delays.


Just my personal thoughts.

I have another idea that Uncle Jeff could possibly entertain, but I will hold back for now.

 

Forest Avenue has a far greater tendency to get congested compared to Richmond Terrace so the S40 is definitely a quicker route for most of the day compared to the S48. (Also I don't think Matrix Park is that big of a destination to the point where it warrants the more frequent S48 serving it compared to the less frequent S40.

Also, I think a full-time S98 should go over the Goethals Bridge (to either Elizabeth NJT, Newark Airport, or Jersey Gardens)

8 hours ago, lara8710 said:

If that's so, how did the S89 come to life?

With a lot of pressure from politicians (particularly the Borough President at the time James Molinaro). 

Apparently they needed to pass an act of legislation to get it done. (Now that the act is in place it is easier to get it done, but it wasn't until Andy Byford came into the picture that the agency began listening to ideas from the public in any noticeable way)

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Posted (edited)
On 7/4/2020 at 12:47 PM, lara8710 said:

With Staten Island being the closest of the five boroughs to Newark Airport, I wonder why the S98 Limited hasn't been extended to serve it. Could it be because there's not enough potential demandd? That'smy guess.

I think the route needs to originate from ETC...and use OTR coaches. There is definitely a market for it. I would actually have a number of routes.

  • SiM40: Newark Liberty Airport, hourly from 0600 to 2200 (ETC departure)...following the SiM4(C) up to Bulls Head and making SiM4C stops. Weekends, the route would be via Jersey Gardens before Newark Airport.

Via Richmond Avenue and Drumgoole Road, starting at Victory Boulevard:

  • SiM50:  Richmond & Forest to Metropark, peak direction only, 6 trips each way.
  • SiM51: Richmond and Forest to Raritan Center, peak direction only, 4 trips each way.

Local service to New Jersey: (This would require the cap on all SI Division local buses to be raised to 45 mph minimum.)

  • S47: St. George Ferry Terminal via Forest Avenue to Elizabeth (Broad Street station) via Bayway Avenue and South Broad Street, weekdays 0600 to 2000 and Saturdays 0800 to 1800 (no Sunday service). Some trips would start from the Ferry, but reliefs and most run-offs would be from Willowbrook Road. The final trips from New Jersey would drop out at Willowbrook Road and return to Castleton Depot.
  • S56: Reroute from Tottenville High School to Perth Amboy  (school trippers and some weekday AM short-turns would still run to/from Tottenville HS skipping Seguine Avenue). Instead of operating via Seguine and Hylan (which the S55 serves), the bus would continue west along Amboy Road, Page and Boscombe Avenues, and Bricktown Mall, and operate in Perth Amboy along Amboy and New Brunswick Avenues.

It is very possible that the SiM50, SiM51, and S56 could all be contracted, possibly to Academy, which has a garage in Perth Amboy. 

Edited by aemoreira81

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10 minutes ago, aemoreira81 said:

I think the route needs to originate from ETC...and use OTR coaches. There is definitely a market for it.

Such said market needs to be from NJT not MTA. 

If academy was to operate a service too it shouldn't be marketed as an MTA service.

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1 hour ago, aemoreira81 said:

I think the route needs to originate from ETC...and use OTR coaches. There is definitely a market for it. I would actually have a number of (ONE) route....

  • SiM40: Newark Liberty Airport, hourly from 0600 to 2200 (ETC departure)...following the SiM4(C) up to Bulls Head and making SiM4C stops. Weekends, the route would be via Jersey Gardens before Newark Airport.

While I believe such a market exists for a service to EWR (which I do believe Brooklynites would take advantage of btw), I don't see the necessity for it to be an express service.... Fixed route open-door locals tend to be more attractive when we're talking about serving a major airport...

Now if we were to talk about having an SI route serve both [Jersey Gardens] & [EWR], then we could perhaps talk about coach buses....

47 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Such said market needs to be (served by) from NJT not MTA. 

If academy was to operate a service too it shouldn't be marketed as an MTA service.

I'd want no part of NJT running a SI - EWR route..... I'm more inclined to agree with CheckmateChamp with perhaps running the S98 there... I simply think there's more potential with folks paying a flat $2.75, compared to a possible 3 zone ($4.50) or 4 zone ($6.00) zone interstate route fare..... Let NJT continue to focus its efforts on serving NJ residents (primarily) with the #62 to/from EWR.....

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3 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

While I believe such a market exists for a service to EWR (which I do believe Brooklynites would take advantage of btw), I don't see the necessity for it to be an express service.... Fixed route open-door locals tend to be more attractive when we're talking about serving a major airport...

Now if we were to talk about having an SI route serve both [Jersey Gardens] & [EWR], then we could perhaps talk about coach buses....

I'd want no part of NJT running a SI - EWR route..... I'm more inclined to agree with CheckmateChamp with perhaps running the S98 there... I simply think there's more potential with folks paying a flat $2.75, compared to a possible 3 zone ($4.50) or 4 zone ($6.00) zone interstate route fare..... Let NJT continue to focus its efforts on serving NJ residents (primarily) with the #62 to/from EWR.....

Weekend service would be via both; I don't see justification for weekday service to The Mills at Jersey Gardens outside of the Christmas shopping season. What forces it to be express is that, at least for now, one cannot use coins on the Prevost and MCI fleet, but there are OMNY readers. When there are more options, such as fixed-time passes, that can change. Also, there is no local bus that's capped at a speed fast enough to serve EWR from Staten Island.

My post said a number at first because I initially considered separate service to Jersey Gardens, but then thought that there would be little weekday ridership there outside of the Christmas season (when there are normally transatlantic shopping trips there, usually on Jet2).

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Must suck to rely on the B31 or B37 at this time:

 

DETOURS  Posted: 07/05/2020  6:48PM

B31 buses will start/end at Gerritsen Ave/Avenue W because of cars blocking the road on Gerritsen Ave between Avenue W and Gerritsen Beach. Buses will not stop between Gerritsen Ave/Gerritsen Beach and Gerritsen Ave/Avenue W. 
 

 

DELAYS  Posted: 07/05/2020  1:58PM

There is extremely limited B37 bus service in both directions.

Consider taking (R) trains on 4th Ave or B63 bus service on 5th Ave.

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1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Must suck to rely on the B31 or B37 at this time:

 

DETOURS  Posted: 07/05/2020  6:48PM

B31 buses will start/end at Gerritsen Ave/Avenue W because of cars blocking the road on Gerritsen Ave between Avenue W and Gerritsen Beach. Buses will not stop between Gerritsen Ave/Gerritsen Beach and Gerritsen Ave/Avenue W.
 

 

DELAYS  Posted: 07/05/2020  1:58PM

There is extremely limited B37 bus service in both directions.

Consider taking (R) trains on 4th Ave or B63 bus service on 5th Ave.

Where the hell are the police and/or towaways? Are they still hung over from last night? 😂

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6 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

While I believe such a market exists for a service to EWR (which I do believe Brooklynites would take advantage of btw), I don't see the necessity for it to be an express service.... Fixed route open-door locals tend to be more attractive when we're talking about serving a major airport...

Now if we were to talk about having an SI route serve both [Jersey Gardens] & [EWR], then we could perhaps talk about coach buses....

I'd want no part of NJT running a SI - EWR route..... I'm more inclined to agree with CheckmateChamp with perhaps running the S98 there... I simply think there's more potential with folks paying a flat $2.75, compared to a possible 3 zone ($4.50) or 4 zone ($6.00) zone interstate route fare..... Let NJT continue to focus its efforts on serving NJ residents (primarily) with the #62 to/from EWR.....

How about we focus on getting a bus here to LGA instead before we even bother with EWR? 🤣😂

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1 hour ago, Yankees4life said:

How about we focus on getting a bus here to LGA instead before we even bother with EWR? 🤣😂

Well, you have free reign to post on here just as much as any of us does on here, fam.... Lol....

Have any routing suggestions?

2 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Must suck to rely on the B31 or B37 at this time:

 

DETOURS  Posted: 07/05/2020  6:48PM

B31 buses will start/end at Gerritsen Ave/Avenue W because of cars blocking the road on Gerritsen Ave between Avenue W and Gerritsen Beach. Buses will not stop between Gerritsen Ave/Gerritsen Beach and Gerritsen Ave/Avenue W. 
 

DELAYS  Posted: 07/05/2020  1:58PM

There is extremely limited B37 bus service in both directions.

Consider taking (R) trains on 4th Ave or B63 bus service on 5th Ave.

B37 notice tells me much of nothing.... B31 thing is pretty concerning....

6 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

Weekend service would be via both; I don't see justification for weekday service to The Mills at Jersey Gardens outside of the Christmas shopping season. What forces it to be express is that, at least for now, one cannot use coins on the Prevost and MCI fleet, but there are OMNY readers. When there are more options, such as fixed-time passes, that can change. Also, there is no local bus that's capped at a speed fast enough to serve EWR from Staten Island.

My post said a number at first because I initially considered separate service to Jersey Gardens, but then thought that there would be little weekday ridership there outside of the Christmas season (when there are normally transatlantic shopping trips there, usually on Jet2).

I don't see what you're saying....

I get that the buses are governed (which I don't see as nearly as much of a problem that you do), but what does anything involving coinage have to do with such a service being forced (as you put it) to be an express? The latter would actually be a reason to use local buses....

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7 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

 Also, there is no local bus that's capped at a speed fast enough to serve EWR from Staten Island.

Yukon's LFSes are AFAIK uncapped for the S79 and S89 and, based on a few rides I've taken, are absolute rockets...

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4 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

There is extremely limited B37 bus service in both directions.

Consider taking (R) trains on 4th Ave or B63 bus service on 5th Ave.

No explanation? Odd.

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2 hours ago, Bay Ridge Express said:

No explanation? Odd.

The reason is something the general public would not easily comprehend.

But, if I could possibly provide some input on that situation, there's a fair bit of open runs every day that don't have operators to cover them. Seeing how that was for Sunday, the B37 isn't a very frequent line and there aren't many stand-alone runs for it on weekends, most B37 trips are interlined with either the B63 or B70 instead.

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