BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[Around the Horn]

2 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

Thank you. The same goes for discussions on transit expansions and operations. A lot of people act as if the transit system is their personal train set, and that the employees and managers in the system should operate as they want. R32s on the B, complaining about the Coney Island subway swap, asking for insider information on subway car swaps, the inside scoop on bus swaps, the bus redesign, and so on. I am not going to name names, but I know people on here who have left or reduced posting due to the reduction in quality of discussions on transit issues on things that are more important than railfanning, like operational fixes to increase capacity. NYCTF and other transit boards have continued to decline as people go to Twitter and Facebook where they can discuss issues with an audience broader than foamers, but also with subway riders and advocates who just want to get to work on time.

A lot of people here claim to want to become transit planners or become the "next Andy Byford," but their comments do not suggest that. They get turned off by paragraphs-long discussions on actual ways to improve service, about discussions on the MTA's finances, and prefer to complain about a change in rolling stock assignments or propose asinine and unrealistic extensions to the subway system that do not contribute to any competent and insightful discussion.

I was going to add my two cents to this discussion but you, @EastFlatbushLarry, @B35 via Church, and others seem have that covered.

Particularly in regards to your post, I found the subways proposals/ideas thread to be a good place to discuss complicated operational issues before it got overrun with nonsense create-your-own-route proposals and now I just don't bother. Part of the reason why it is so easy to leave spaces like NYCTF is that I can get the same information and have thoughtful discussion about operational minutiae elsewhere without the drivel and headaches.

[MysteriousBtrain]

34 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

Part of the reason why it is so easy to leave spaces like NYCTF is that I can get the same information and have thoughtful discussion about operational minutiae elsewhere without the drivel and headaches.

This

[GojiMet86]

In general, over the decades, the transit fan community in New York City and the United States has largely gone from discussing not just the history of the lines and the mechanics of the vehicles themselves to talking about how cool the sound of a door is. I say NYC and the US because I've noticed the British rail and bus spotters tend to be more in tune with that engineering part of the hobby. If you take a look at older transit publications and magazines, you'll notice more discussion on the mechanical side than what you see now.

[B35 via Church]

3 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

Thank you. The same goes for discussions on transit expansions and operations. A lot of people act as if the transit system is their personal train set, and that the employees and managers in the system should operate as they want. R32s on the B, complaining about the Coney Island subway swap, asking for insider information on subway car swaps, the inside scoop on bus swaps, the bus redesign, and so on. I am not going to name names, but I know people on here who have left or reduced posting due to the reduction in quality of discussions on transit issues on things that are more important than railfanning, like operational fixes to increase capacity. NYCTF and other transit boards have continued to decline as people go to Twitter and Facebook where they can discuss issues with an audience broader than foamers, but also with subway riders and advocates who just want to get to work on time.

A lot of people here claim to want to become transit planners or become the "next Andy Byford," but their comments do not suggest that. They get turned off by paragraphs-long discussions on actual ways to improve service, about discussions on the MTA's finances, and prefer to complain about a change in rolling stock assignments or propose asinine and unrealistic extensions to the subway system that do not contribute to any competent and insightful discussion. I get it, a lot of users here are railfans who are in high school and love the rolling stock. I do too, and I have grown past just foaming over R32s, and have learned more about transit operations, and other aspects of transportation planning. I love NYCTF for the discussions with knowledgable people in New York City Transit who have had first-hand knowledge about the operations of the system and who make poignant comments on the state of transit today, and with other passionate people on the forums who discuss issues with the subway and bus system and engage in thoughtful responses to my queries. These discussions have decreased in number since I came onto the forums, and it is very sad. As a result, I have been sending less time on here. I try to bring attention to information from the MTA Board books, the Capital Program dashboard, bus lane changes from the DOT website, and discuss proposals I have, or provide my two cents on an issue. Though I am something privy to inside information, those occasions are rare. There are ways to contribute without having to pretend to be an insider.

For a lot of users on here, when you go railfanning, see whether trains are on schedule, think about why that is. Are platforms crowded, are there accessibility issues? Is your train stuck at a location for a long time? If you just want to post here to talk about your observations while railfanning or discus which cars are best, fine. However, realize that the transit system was not made for you. It was made to transport people across the city efficiently and affordably. Don't feel entitled to information which you don't have the right to get. Don't complain or interrupt when people are having substantive discussions on ways to improve the system.

I could rant for longer, but I hope that many users her give this a read and think about it.

The thing about all that complaining is that it appears to be for the simple sake of it, as opposed to wanting to delve into deeper (or "paragraphs long", which is used as a shaming tactic) discussions... It's easier to complain & apparently more difficult to muse about solutions.... Of course we're going to have different opinions/mindsets/ideals on what & how public transit in this city should resemble, but I'm less interested in what fleet should run on what line & more interested in improving the quality of public transit for the masses (not just for myself).... Although not completely insignificant, sometimes I think people get way too caught up in aesthetics & lose sight of (what should be) the end goal.....

I'm not trying to be intentionally insensitive with this, but I tend to question what level of *give-a-damn* people really have about the intricacies & the logistics of public transit on here.... Whatever is whatever, but this isn't just a chill spot for me.... This forum (nor the internet, as a whole) is wholly representative of the extent of how much research/learning I do, on my own accord....

3 minutes ago, GojiMet86 said:

In general, over the decades, the transit fan community in New York City and the United States has largely gone from discussing not just the history of the lines and the mechanics of the vehicles themselves to talking about how cool the sound of a door is. I say NYC and the US because I've noticed the British rail and bus spotters tend to be more in tune with that engineering part of the hobby. If you take a look at older transit publications and magazines, you'll notice more discussion on the mechanical side than what you see now.

Yep, I've pointed that out a couple of times on here... While not entirely their fault, the younger folks are too caught up in the technological aspect of everything & just about a complete lack of interest & acknowledgment with anything historical....

55 minutes ago, R10 2952 said:

Yes, I know a lot of people now who have found themselves in this boat in March/April/May- basically, not allowed to say goodbye and commemorate their loved ones who have passed, not allowed to go to church to say a prayer and light a candle.  It hits a raw nerve and is why I find shallow, BS phrases like "new normal" and "we're in this together" so infuriating.

Don't get me started with that new normal shit....

37 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

I was going to add my two cents to this discussion but you, @EastFlatbushLarry, @B35 via Church, and others seem have that covered.

Particularly in regards to your post, I found the subways proposals/ideas thread to be a good place to discuss complicated operational issues before it got overrun with nonsense create-your-own-route proposals and now I just don't bother. Part of the reason why it is so easy to leave spaces like NYCTF is that I can get the same information and have thoughtful discussion about operational minutiae elsewhere without the drivel and headaches.

This is more of a problem in the bus section (compared to the subway section), but what bothers me is that people will post ideas, ask for opinions - but will give lame/lazy answers (or worse, catch an attitude) when asked what their rationale is behind those ideas.... I don't get that - if I'm going to pose a proposal, best believe I can break down why I came to the conclusion that I did.... What & where is the difficulty in that?? Something else that I find troubling is that people tend to not take disagreements all that well & are rather aversive to formulating counterarguments.... *It's not that serious* & *Because I said so* are not arguments, I'm sorry.

RD had the right idea/blueprint in (wanting to) welcome the everyday straphanger to the discussion forums - but of course, that turned into what it did, before it eventually went defunct..... I like reading about people's travels & there's not too much of that being shared anymore....

Edited July 23, 2020 by B35 via Church

[trainfan22]

46 minutes ago, GojiMet86 said:

In general, over the decades, the transit fan community in New York City and the United States has largely gone from discussing not just the history of the lines and the mechanics of the vehicles themselves to talking about how cool the sound of a door is. I say NYC and the US because I've noticed the British rail and bus spotters tend to be more in tune with that engineering part of the hobby. If you take a look at older transit publications and magazines, you'll notice more discussion on the mechanical side than what you see now.

I'd say this is a mix NYC railfans not volunteering at those Trolley museums like shore line, etc. The Subway cars at those museums is maintained by volunteers and that's how one would get inner knowledge of how subway cars work.

 

 

That, and people work in Car Equipment and the mechanics who work on buses at depots rarely ever post on forums. Most buffs who want to work for transit apply for the same three job titles ( T/O C/R or B/O ) and posters who work in transit who post on forums usually work those same three job titles as well lol

Edited July 23, 2020 by trainfan22

[R10 2952]

47 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

Most buffs who want to work for transit apply for the same three job titles ( T/O C/R or B/O ) and posters who work in transit who post on forums usually work those same three job titles as well lol

Haha mostly true, although I could've sworn there was a car inspector somewhere on here 10 years ago or so...

Edited July 23, 2020 by R10 2952

[GojiMet86]

Facebook is okay, but the (transit-related) discussions are just limited to basically one sentence. The (transit-related) back-and-forth style isn't prominent as it is on the Forums or SubChat.

[EastFlatbushLarry]

3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Something else that I find troubling is that people tend to not take disagreements all that well & are rather aversive to formulating counterarguments.... *It's not that serious* & *Because I said so* are not arguments, I'm sorry.

THIS 100%

Edited July 23, 2020 by EastFlatbushLarry

[trainfan22]

2 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

Haha mostly true, although I could've sworn there was a car inspector somewhere on here 10 years ago or so...

There was one who posted here in the early stages of the R179 order and told us about overzealous railfans calling Pikin Yard to see if the 179s were coming out for testing that day... and railfans who weren't TA employees straight up going to the security booth at Pikin asking if they could see the 179s.

 

 

I wonder how much transitbuff f***ery that happens that never makes it to forums or Facebook...

[GojiMet86]

Man, I remember that. Now most of them are young teens who cannot seem to differentiate between what I called fan-fiction above and serious work. Of course, I said most are TEENS, because some of older dudes are just as crap.

Calling and tweeting a State run Agency for trivial stuff like what times are the R32s going to leave the station is just...a little mind-numbing. Or how about our favorite TSS who keeps hogging the RFW on the R32/R42s and tweets out things that may or may not get train operators in trouble?

There is a disconnect with reality.

[MysteriousBtrain]

Not my photo

[B35 via Church]

The Bx99 has no business ending in the West Village..... It'd have made much more sense ending the thing where the old M5 used to (W. Houston/LaGuardia Pl.).....

[Around the Horn]

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

The Bx99 has no business ending in the West Village..... It'd have made much more sense ending the thing where the old M5 used to (W. Houston/LaGuardia Pl.).....

I agree however lets see what nonsensical definition of the boundaries of the West Village the MTA/DOT are using before judging

(they did once call the same terminus Bath Beach and Bensonhurst simultaneously)

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Speaking about absurd neighborhood boundaries, it bothers me that they claim the Bx36 terminal (at Olmstead Avenue) is in Soundview.

[JeremiahC99]

1 hour ago, Around the Horn said:

I agree however lets see what nonsensical definition of the boundaries of the West Village the MTA/DOT are using before judging

(they did once call the same terminus Bath Beach and Bensonhurst simultaneously)

 

47 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Speaking about absurd neighborhood boundaries, it bothers me that they claim the Bx36 terminal (at Olmstead Avenue) is in Soundview.

Isn’t the B25 situation with the DUMBO/Fulton Landing terminal at Front Street being labeled as Downtown Brooklyn similar to those situations?

[Bay Ridge Express]

13 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

Thank you. The same goes for discussions on transit expansions and operations. A lot of people act as if the transit system is their personal train set, and that the employees and managers in the system should operate as they want. R32s on the B, complaining about the Coney Island subway swap, asking for insider information on subway car swaps, the inside scoop on bus swaps, the bus redesign, and so on. I am not going to name names, but I know people on here who have left or reduced posting due to the reduction in quality of discussions on transit issues on things that are more important than railfanning, like operational fixes to increase capacity. NYCTF and other transit boards have continued to decline as people go to Twitter and Facebook where they can discuss issues with an audience broader than foamers, but also with subway riders and advocates who just want to get to work on time.

A lot of people here claim to want to become transit planners or become the "next Andy Byford," but their comments do not suggest that. They get turned off by paragraphs-long discussions on actual ways to improve service, about discussions on the MTA's finances, and prefer to complain about a change in rolling stock assignments or propose asinine and unrealistic extensions to the subway system that do not contribute to any competent and insightful discussion. I get it, a lot of users here are railfans who are in high school and love the rolling stock. I do too, and I have grown past just foaming over R32s, and have learned more about transit operations, and other aspects of transportation planning. I love NYCTF for the discussions with knowledgable people in New York City Transit who have had first-hand knowledge about the operations of the system and who make poignant comments on the state of transit today, and with other passionate people on the forums who discuss issues with the subway and bus system and engage in thoughtful responses to my queries. These discussions have decreased in number since I came onto the forums, and it is very sad. As a result, I have been sending less time on here. I try to bring attention to information from the MTA Board books, the Capital Program dashboard, bus lane changes from the DOT website, and discuss proposals I have, or provide my two cents on an issue. Though I am something privy to inside information, those occasions are rare. There are ways to contribute without having to pretend to be an insider.

For a lot of users on here, when you go railfanning, see whether trains are on schedule, think about why that is. Are platforms crowded, are there accessibility issues? Is your train stuck at a location for a long time? If you just want to post here to talk about your observations while railfanning or discus which cars are best, fine. However, realize that the transit system was not made for you. It was made to transport people across the city efficiently and affordably. Don't feel entitled to information which you don't have the right to get. Don't complain or interrupt when people are having substantive discussions on ways to improve the system.

I could rant for longer, but I hope that many users her give this a read and think about it.

I have to say, before joining the forums, my knowledge was bare regarding important explanations for train delays/issues but some of the insightful discussions I've read on here led me to learn a lot about capacity, timers, operations, management, etc. I agree that we do need to be having more of these conversations, since I enjoy them the most. I don't mean to sound vain, but I rarely care about the way car classes operate...

 

 

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Speaking about absurd neighborhood boundaries, it bothers me that they claim the Bx36 terminal (at Olmstead Avenue) is in Soundview.

Amazing how the M21 terminates in 3 separate neighborhoods on the west side - even though it only has 1 WB terminal....
(destination signs say SoHo, timetables say West Village, but Spring/Greenwich is over in Hudson Square)

30 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Isn’t the B25 situation with the DUMBO/Fulton Landing terminal at Front Street being labeled as Downtown Brooklyn similar to those situations?

Hell, similar aint the word for it - it's one of the most egregious examples of the offense.... DUMBO is well established & clearly distinguishable from Downtown Brooklyn now, so there's no excuse for it....

[Cait Sith]

4 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Amazing how the M21 terminates in 3 separate neighborhoods on the west side - even though it only has 1 WB terminal....
(destination signs say SoHo, timetables say West Village, but Spring/Greenwich is over in Hudson Square)

Hell, similar aint the word for it - it's one of the most egregious examples of the offense.... DUMBO is well established & clearly distinguishable from Downtown Brooklyn now, so there's no excuse for it....

Hudson Square huh....as someone that delivers goods in Manhattan, one would think that I'd pay attention to that....😅😅

 

8 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Not my photo

I cannot be the only one that laughed at how they did the sign.

[B35 via Church]

2 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

Hudson Square huh....as someone that delivers goods in Manhattan, one would think that I'd pay attention to that....😅😅

Yep, it's that little pocket over there south of the 'Village, north of TriBeCa , and west of SoHo.... Most consider it the latter, but to me, it doesn't "feel" like either of the 3...

2 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

I cannot be the only one that laughed at how they did the sign.

I shook my head at at....

(still) SMH

[RapidoNewLook]

8 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

I cannot be the only one that laughed at how they did the sign.

 

6 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I shook my head at at....

(still) SMH

I was wondering, where in Manhattan is this? 🤣

Edited July 24, 2020 by RapidoNewLook

[Cait Sith]

5 minutes ago, RapidoNewLook said:

 

I was wondering, where in Manhattan is this? 🤣

That sign is in The Bronx between Bedford Park & Woodlawn.

[RapidoNewLook]

1 minute ago, Cait Sith said:

That sign is in The Bronx between Bedford Park & Woodlawn.

I know, I was just pointing out the beautifully crafted "W"s on the sign. Talk about saving money! 🤣

[B35 via Church]

11 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

That sign is in The Bronx between Bedford Park & Woodlawn.

At Woodlawn (heading SB) to be exact.

[trainfan22]

Wow, my 82 SBS took a little over a half  hour to travel from the first stop in Bensonhurst to the Rockaway Parkway station. Ride was about an half hour quicker than I expected it to be😁

 

 

One of the best SBS rides I ever had...

 

 

Also for some reason SC MCI 3348 was parked across the street from the Chase bank at the junction along with a C40 that's usually parked there. I wonder why an MCI was parked there today, I don't even know why C40s be parked in that spot....

 

Especially considering the B103 doesn't do driver reliefs AFAIK. 

Edited July 24, 2020 by trainfan22

[Calvin]

54 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

Also for some reason SC MCI 3348 was parked across the street from the Chase bank at the junction along with a C40 that's usually parked there. I wonder why an MCI was parked there today, I don't even know why C40s be parked in that spot....

Especially considering the B103 doesn't do driver reliefs AFAIK. 

Probably a BM2 deadhead to/from either Canarsie or Midtown and taking a short break before heading to its destined deadhead.