BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

46 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Most of those of us that's been active enough on these parts (as in, the forum) over the years are guilty of giving too much of a shit (regarding the betterment of public transit).... Everybody has breaking points & this agency will bring you to it - it's only a matter of when, or how quickly.... Looks like the camel's back's been broken on your end here....

I hate to even put it like this on a transit forum, but as far as anything pertaining to the MTA's concerned, I'm just sitting back & watching how far down the rabbit hole this shitshow we're experiencing that this agency will sink to.... I can't even get irate at it all anymore.... Although it shouldn't be, the shit is inevitable. 

This shit needs to completely fall apart and be built from scratch from people who are actually willing to listen to the customers and fix this shit in its entirety. And funny how you have transit buffs over here confused on my post...what are you confused about? I thought you knew the MTA inside and out. 

 

To clarify...the S90 route in Staten Island is a limited variant of the S40 bus. For YEARS now...the S90 has been running limited from St George Ferry to South Ave/Richmond Terr (9 stops) then all local west to Gothaels/Matrix Park. The schedules reflect this service pattern, the paddles reflect this pattern, and even the stops along the streets reflect this pattern. When I started riding the S90, the BusTime app was never updated to match this pattern, even after they changed the route to terminate at Amazon, and when the ADA screens were installed on the LFS buses out here in Staten Island, it became irritating hearing the bus announce all the local stops after Richmond Terr/Park Ave (which are an extra 10 stops that the S90 doesn't stop at). Once I found out that you can report BusTime issues, I decided to report the issue because drivers were getting verbally assaulted for bypassing stops because the screens announced it, but everything else indicates that those stops aren't S90 stops (especially the street stops). So I never understood why they let these inconsistencies run so long so I emailed BusTime to address the issue and they got back to me stating that the "Service Plan" for the S90 is to ONLY run limited between St George Ferry and Richmond Terr / Park Ave (5 stops) ...and not limited all the way to South Ave / Richmond Terr. They then therefore stated that the official PDF schedules on mta.info are wrong, and ALL of the lollipop bus stop signs are wrong and will send updates to the DOT to have them ADD S90 plaques to ALL of the stops after Richmond Terr/Park Ave (10 extra stops). 

All I asked was for BusTime to remove the excessive stops being announced and listed on the app to match the schedule and street signs and they do the absolute most by restructuring the route to run it more slower. 

That doesn't make sense at all....all these years and you're telling me road ops NEVER saw that so many stops were incorrect. Why would they even consider slowing down the line by adding all of those extra stops? Is the BusTime service plan outdated and they just don't want to admit that? Why does the MTA PDF schedules reflect that the S90 is running limited all the way to South Ave /Richmond Terr if that's not the case? Why would road ops allow this to happen for SO LONG if that's the case? Shit doesn't add up and its just f**ked up how when you try to do the right thing, this agency just finds a way to f**k up service even more. 

 

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

31 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

This shit needs to completely fall apart and be built from scratch from people who are actually willing to listen to the customers and fix this shit in its entirety. And funny how you have transit buffs over here confused on my post...what are you confused about? I thought you knew the MTA inside and out. 

 

To clarify...the S90 route in Staten Island is a limited variant of the S40 bus. For YEARS now...the S90 has been running limited from St George Ferry to South Ave/Richmond Terr (9 stops) then all local west to Gothaels/Matrix Park. The schedules reflect this service pattern, the paddles reflect this pattern, and even the stops along the streets reflect this pattern. When I started riding the S90, the BusTime app was never updated to match this pattern, even after they changed the route to terminate at Amazon, and when the ADA screens were installed on the LFS buses out here in Staten Island, it became irritating hearing the bus announce all the local stops after Richmond Terr/Park Ave (which are an extra 10 stops that the S90 doesn't stop at). Once I found out that you can report BusTime issues, I decided to report the issue because drivers were getting verbally assaulted for bypassing stops because the screens announced it, but everything else indicates that those stops aren't S90 stops (especially the street stops). So I never understood why they let these inconsistencies run so long so I emailed BusTime to address the issue and they got back to me stating that the "Service Plan" for the S90 is to ONLY run limited between St George Ferry and Richmond Terr / Park Ave (5 stops) ...and not limited all the way to South Ave / Richmond Terr. They then therefore stated that the official PDF schedules on mta.info are wrong, and ALL of the lollipop bus stop signs are wrong and will send updates to the DOT to have them ADD S90 plaques to ALL of the stops after Richmond Terr/Park Ave (10 extra stops). 

All I asked was for BusTime to remove the excessive stops being announced and listed on the app to match the schedule and street signs and they do the absolute most by restructuring the route to run it more slower. 

That doesn't make sense at all....all these years and you're telling me road ops NEVER saw that so many stops were incorrect. Why would they even consider slowing down the line by adding all of those extra stops? Is the BusTime service plan outdated and they just don't want to admit that? Why does the MTA PDF schedules reflect that the S90 is running limited all the way to South Ave /Richmond Terr if that's not the case? Why would road ops allow this to happen for SO LONG if that's the case? Shit doesn't add up and its just f**ked up how when you try to do the right thing, this agency just finds a way to f**k up service even more. 

 

 

I wouldn't necessarily blame road-ops. There are some guys that give a damn, but it's the culture at the  . Some guys are vocal and speak up, but face obstacles in getting changes, so they say screw it, so nothing changes. Sad situation, but that's how it is. There are people above them that in some cases don't care.  Keep in mind that the hiring freeze has also impacted road-ops. Everyone is doing more with less.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[B35 via Church]

20 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I wouldn't necessarily blame road-ops. There are some guys that give a damn, but it's the culture at the  . Some guys are vocal and speak up, but face obstacles in getting changes, so they say screw it, so nothing changes. Sad situation, but that's how it is. There are people above them that in some cases don't care.  Keep in mind that the hiring freeze has also impacted road-ops. Everyone is doing more with less.

As with any corrupted entity, it starts at the top.... What you point out here is the crux of the problem... Any modicum of sagacity & "give a damn" is drowned out by the stale, stagnant culture that permeates this agency.... Far too much politics & "mu-ha-ha-ha-ha" shit involved... This is the realization that I've ended up coming to when I did & quite frankly, my days of being as vociferous in flying off the handle or whatever, are done....

[Lawrence St]

3 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

 

To add to what B35 stated above, when it comes to transportation, the thinking is that the  should run it. One of the reasons that the former private lines were consolidated and put under  Bus was the City thought they could save money. Lower subsidies. On the one hand, you have everything under one umbrella, so in theory, you would think that one of the largest transit systems in the world would be run efficiently. On the other hand, there's no competition, so the  has carte blanche to run service as they wish, which is why I have advocated successfully to have them audited again by the City Comptroller's office to answer about their express bus service. I had written both the City and State Comptroller over the last several months and had been exchanging e-mails urging them to take this up with tons of evidence to support my request: https://comptroller.nyc.gov/newsroom/comptroller-stringer-audit-mta-express-bus-on-time-performance-continues-to-lag/

The other way to hold them somewhat accountable is to screw with their funding. When lawmakers propose making changes to legislation that is tied to their funding, that gets their attention, otherwise, they could care less. I like what Congresswoman Lydia Velázquez is proposing, which is to force transit agencies nationwide to accept cash at booths, and she tied the proposed legislation to them getting federal funding. The  like other transit agencies, relies heavily on federal funding: 

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-velazquez-mta-cash-booths-bill-20210629-4ow5to6s5nfuzc2tzabfsv5lje-story.html

I have had a few private operators contact me about starting up private express bus service, and I would love to work with them. The issue has been that as a private operator, they need the ridership, so now is definitely not the time to start up any such service, but I have had conversations about it going back to early 2020. 

The issue other then ridership is the corruption in the city politics, particularly DOT. They flat out refuse to give ANYONE authorization to run in the city, or make it extremely difficult to do so. There are so many other agencies that would be happy to contract out work, so why is the city so hell-bent on having everything be run by ? They say it was to Lower the subsides, but at what cost?? They absolutely ruined all the express lines they got. The Riverdale lines lost a ton of ridership after MTA got them simply because MTA dosent know and dosent care enough to run it properly.

Then you got them sending cease and decist letters to private carries who want to save some of the lines they eliminated. It's ridiculous.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

The issue other then ridership is the corruption in the city politics, particularly DOT. They flat out refuse to give ANYONE authorization to run in the city, or make it extremely difficult to do so. There are so many other agencies that would be happy to contract out work, so why is the city so hell-bent on having everything be run by ? They say it was to Lower the subsides, but at what cost?? They absolutely ruined all the express lines they got. The Riverdale lines lost a ton of ridership after MTA got them simply because MTA dosent know and dosent care enough to run it properly.

Then you got them sending cease and decist letters to private carries who want to save some of the lines they eliminated. It's ridiculous.

Private lines can run, but they have to make sure they cross their "t's" and dot their "i's", and you need to be able to fill the buses you run. The private lines had incentives to keep operating. The  has no incentive. Big difference.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[B35 via Church]

I know, @XcelsiorBoii4888... The whole thing is disheartening - especially as enthusiasts.

9 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

The issue other then ridership is the corruption in the city politics, particularly DOT. They flat out refuse to give ANYONE authorization to run in the city, or make it extremely difficult to do so. There are so many other agencies that would be happy to contract out work, so why is the city so hell-bent on having everything be run by ? They say it was to Lower the subsides, but at what cost?? They absolutely ruined all the express lines they got. The Riverdale lines lost a ton of ridership after MTA got them simply because MTA dosent know and dosent care enough to run it properly.

Then you got them sending cease and decist letters to private carries who want to save some of the lines they eliminated. It's ridiculous.

Politics.... Which doesn't give a shit about meritocracies and/or whatever amount of fervor some other entity may have/believe in wanting to better public transit.... Enthusiasts & the riding public need to get it out of their heads that the end goal is to have public transit flourish.... Folks need to read between the lines & stop taking what's being said by those types as absolute gospel.... Pacifying the public with facades is the name of the game, and they will stop at nothing to mince words if it means keeping the "right" people off their backs...

4 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Private lines can run, but they have to make sure they cross their "t's" and dot their "i's", and you need to be able to fill the buses you run.

....to be eventually swallowed up or struggle mightily for as long as they can

[JAzumah]

10 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

And @JAzumah I read about what happened with the QM22 just now, the city really tried to play you dirty. Please tell me you at least sued them.

Yes, they did play very dirty. They did a lot of damage to my company, but they also did a lot of damage to their credibility. When you walk into court numerous times and hear that the judge didn't get through the briefs of your lawyers, you know that the fix was in.

However, the future private bus industry in NYC will benefit immensely from what happened in 2010.

[Lawrence St]

19 minutes ago, JAzumah said:

Yes, they did play very dirty. They did a lot of damage to my company, but they also did a lot of damage to their credibility. When you walk into court numerous times and hear that the judge didn't get through the briefs of your lawyers, you know that the fix was in.

However, the future private bus industry in NYC will benefit immensely from what happened in 2010.

What was the outcome? Did they ever change the rules, or did you ever try to do the QM22 again?

[JAzumah]

5 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

The simple answer is that people in general are territorial; you don't want anyone infringing on something you think (or know) that's yours.... The MTA wants (and has) that much of a stronghold over public transit in this city, I'd go as far as to say that they're scared shitless of competition (hence all the hoops & barriers any outside entity has to jump over & what not)..... Funny thing about incompetency is that it breeds insecurity.

Other than the S89, the MTA has never once bothered me in the process of starting up any routes. I have been told to my face that if I don't challenge any specific MTA route, they will never bother me. They might complain when the 144 restarts in September, but I do not expect them to interfere with it. I expect that we will begin pooling certain routes in 2022 and that is how I am going to drag the MTA kicking and screaming into Newark Airport.

Today's MTA can be pushed by people internally that care. They exist and zero budget changes that improve service are very hard to fight against. The present environment will force the MTA to reach out to people to bring them back onto public transport and as a private operator, it is important to me that the base MTA network is functional. The MTA understands that they cannot do everything and they will work with the private sector when they have to.

The problem is politically connected people goading the NYCDOT to do stupid things and I've learned how to solve that problem.

 

4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

One of the reasons that the former private lines were consolidated and put under  Bus was the City thought they could save money.

The City was going to eventually screw the MTA and make them eat the subsidy, but the MTA was smart enough to help block those attempts. That was the original purpose of congestion pricing. It was to have the City replace their cash with tolled cash from their city's bridges and tunnels. Meanwhile, the MTA would end up eating the massive cost of rehabbing all of those crossings. The current congestion pricing program will morph into another attempt by NYC to stop subsidizing the MTA directly at all and the capital funding stream will be opened to operations.

 

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Private lines can run, but they have to make sure they cross their "t's" and dot their "i's", and you need to be able to fill the buses you run.

1) The operations must be closed door. That means you take reservations from your express bus commuters. Do not take any cash unless you plan to run a checkpoint and kick people off your buses that do not follow your system.

2) Keep a list of those customers (name and phone or e-mail). Make any agency that wants the list sign an NDA. 

3) Make your service part of an interstate/regional network if possible. The biggest issue is city residents without jobs not being able to get to suburban job sites without cars. Job Access & Reverse Commuter planning is largely dormant, but this will be one of the biggest near-term transportation needs we have.

4) You need a portfolio to balance off cash flows. Airport transfers, school/college athletic transportation, and other charter work can balance out the process of starting up new routes. The 144 will be joined by a route to Jersey Gardens. I expect SI-Jersey Gardens to do very well.

5) You will have to keep running no matter what to win. That means you have to be prepared to fight administratively as well as in court to stay on the road until any legal matter is decided. If you stop for any period of time, you are dead.

 

58 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Pacifying the public with facades is the name of the game, and they will stop at nothing to mince words if it means keeping the "right" people off their backs...

"But your honor, there is a safety issue with this kind of operation" despite the operator being certified to carry DOD personnel...

Games, games, and more games will be played.

 

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

....to be eventually swallowed up or struggle mightily for as long as they can

I would know nothing if I didn't have to struggle for things or have failures along the way. This is how you learn.

A big MTA hangup is failure. If they were willing to try more things and cut them if it didn't work, they would be an entirely different kind of agency.

[JAzumah]

18 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

What was the outcome? Did they ever change the rules, or did you ever try to do the QM22 again?

Officially, the rules are not changed.

Unofficially, if your vehicles are deemed safe, you pre-arrange ALL of your customers, and you charge the same or a higher price than the MTA, you should be fine. If you do something like the Chinese bus companies trying to crush the Chinese vans, your equipment will end up on eBay very quickly.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

24 minutes ago, JAzumah said:

Other than the S89, the MTA has never once bothered me in the process of starting up any routes. I have been told to my face that if I don't challenge any specific MTA route, they will never bother me. They might complain when the 144 restarts in September, but I do not expect them to interfere with it. I expect that we will begin pooling certain routes in 2022 and that is how I am going to drag the MTA kicking and screaming into Newark Airport.

Today's MTA can be pushed by people internally that care. They exist and zero budget changes that improve service are very hard to fight against. The present environment will force the MTA to reach out to people to bring them back onto public transport and as a private operator, it is important to me that the base MTA network is functional. The MTA understands that they cannot do everything and they will work with the private sector when they have to.

The problem is politically connected people goading the NYCDOT to do stupid things and I've learned how to solve that problem.

 

The City was going to eventually screw the MTA and make them eat the subsidy, but the MTA was smart enough to help block those attempts. That was the original purpose of congestion pricing. It was to have the City replace their cash with tolled cash from their city's bridges and tunnels. Meanwhile, the MTA would end up eating the massive cost of rehabbing all of those crossings. The current congestion pricing program will morph into another attempt by NYC to stop subsidizing the MTA directly at all and the capital funding stream will be opened to operations.

 

1) The operations must be closed door. That means you take reservations from your express bus commuters. Do not take any cash unless you plan to run a checkpoint and kick people off your buses that do not follow your system.

2) Keep a list of those customers (name and phone or e-mail). Make any agency that wants the list sign an NDA. 

3) Make your service part of an interstate/regional network if possible. The biggest issue is city residents without jobs not being able to get to suburban job sites without cars. Job Access & Reverse Commuter planning is largely dormant, but this will be one of the biggest near-term transportation needs we have.

4) You need a portfolio to balance off cash flows. Airport transfers, school/college athletic transportation, and other charter work can balance out the process of starting up new routes. The 144 will be joined by a route to Jersey Gardens. I expect SI-Jersey Gardens to do very well.

5) You will have to keep running no matter what to win. That means you have to be prepared to fight administratively as well as in court to stay on the road until any legal matter is decided. If you stop for any period of time, you are dead.

 

The person that wants to run the service knows the set up. He's wanted to do something for a while. The issue was the pandemic came about and there would be no point starting up now with such limited ridership, but we had a long conversation via phone about it. I wouldn't promote his services if he didn't know his stuff.

[checkmatechamp13]

5 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

To clarify...the S90 route in Staten Island is a limited variant of the S40 bus. For YEARS now...the S90 has been running limited from St George Ferry to South Ave/Richmond Terr (9 stops) then all local west to Gothaels/Matrix Park. The schedules reflect this service pattern, the paddles reflect this pattern, and even the stops along the streets reflect this pattern.

It's been over 14 years since the S90 ran local west of Park Avenue (In September 2006, they extended the limited-stop segment to South Avenue, and implemented AM service towards St. George). And it made perfect sense, since the S40 short-turns ran to Arlington Place. The thing that's baffling is that this service pattern worked well for all of these years (and with Amazon on the western end, there's even more of a reason for this pattern to succeed), and now they just want to randomly revert it. 

And I thought it was bad when they added Lafayette Avenue (It's been like that for years where the S90 handled Jersey Street, while the S94 handled Lafayette Avenue...not sure if the S94 was taken off of that stop as part of that change). But now adding 10 stops on the western end...wow...

[B35 via Church]

3 hours ago, JAzumah said:

I would know nothing if I didn't have to struggle for things or have failures along the way. This is how you learn.

A big MTA hangup is failure. If they were willing to try more things and cut them if it didn't work, they would be an entirely different kind of agency.

Nothing is expected to come easy & you learn through trial & error or whatever - but at the same time, the notion that one has to struggle to succeed is that low-class, feel good, wish upon a star BS... I refuse to subscribe to that crap.... You sell yourself short when you do/say that about yourself....

Other than that, their hangup isn't so much failure as much as it is a willingness to break the mold.... They're too comfortable wallowing in stagnancy that the "old guard" (so to speak) laid the groundwork for... If it weren't for technology, I guarantee the MTA would be atrophic.

3 hours ago, JAzumah said:

Other than the S89, the MTA has never once bothered me in the process of starting up any routes. I have been told to my face that if I don't challenge any specific MTA route, they will never bother me. They might complain when the 144 restarts in September, but I do not expect them to interfere with it. I expect that we will begin pooling certain routes in 2022 and that is how I am going to drag the MTA kicking and screaming into Newark Airport.

Today's MTA can be pushed by people internally that care. They exist and zero budget changes that improve service are very hard to fight against. The present environment will force the MTA to reach out to people to bring them back onto public transport and as a private operator, it is important to me that the base MTA network is functional. The MTA understands that they cannot do everything and they will work with the private sector when they have to.

The problem is politically connected people goading the NYCDOT to do stupid things and I've learned how to solve that problem.

My sentiment isn't that anyone that cares enough doesn't exist, it's that they're powerless & weak in numbers to actually make a significant, worthwhile change, culture-wise... If you don't have a foundation, you don't have anything.... This agency isn't in it for the betterment for the riding public, they're in it for their own selfish interests... Corrupted as shit & the front line workers are the ones that have to be sentries, taking (figurative) bullets/vitriol/heat from the everyday riding public that utilize their services in order to get around...

Having (so-called) competition eat costs for services the MTA themselves don't want to run, isn't exactly "working with the private sector"

Edited July 10, 2021 by B35 via Church

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

2 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

It's been over 14 years since the S90 ran local west of Park Avenue (In September 2006, they extended the limited-stop segment to South Avenue, and implemented AM service towards St. George). And it made perfect sense, since the S40 short-turns ran to Arlington Place. The thing that's baffling is that this service pattern worked well for all of these years (and with Amazon on the western end, there's even more of a reason for this pattern to succeed), and now they just want to randomly revert it. 

And I thought it was bad when they added Lafayette Avenue (It's been like that for years where the S90 handled Jersey Street, while the S94 handled Lafayette Avenue...not sure if the S94 was taken off of that stop as part of that change). But now adding 10 stops on the western end...wow...

This is sooo jacked up...they cannot go through with this. There has to be someone above the BusTime team that can override this quickly. I wonder if the union can fight against this change supposedly about to take place. 

Lafayette Ave has been removed from the BusTime list for the S94, but the street signs still exist and all buses still stop there. I think the S94 should continue to serve it and let the S90 go back to bypassing it (especially given the growth the S90 has received over the years). 

The BusTime team is so lost and outdated its sickening. Every limited route out here has routing issues on Bustime. The S90 is outdated, the S86 is a copy/paste version of the S76 (they're gonna probably tell me the sole purpose of the S86 is to run local like the S76 with that S90 logic they've provided). The S81 stops are wrong on Bay Street and the Bay St/Townsend Ave stop is missing, the S91/92/96/98 all DO NOT stop at Bay St/Nick Laporte Pl after leaving the ferry. The S93 is missing the Wagner college stop Clove Rd/Howard Ave. The S94 is missing the Lafayette/Richmond terr stop. The S98 is missing the Forest/Decker Ave stop. 

 

Its just a mess, but I don't even wanna report issues anymore because they might f**k around and adjust all the routes to reflect the outdated BusTime lists. 

Edited July 10, 2021 by XcelsiorBoii4888

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

On 7/8/2021 at 5:07 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

@BM5 via Woodhaven That was a bit confusing. It took me a second to realize that Q113/114 buses were running from Jamaica to the Rockaway Blvd  station (I thought they were running from somewhere in the Springfield Gardens area to the  train). 

I saw the map first, so it took me a while to figure out what was going on (then I saw the tweet and it made sense). That detour look kinda random at first without context, since I would have thought that if something like this came up, they would have sent buses via Cross Bay Boulevard to the Rockaways. 

[QM1to6Ave]

2 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

This is sooo jacked up...they cannot go through with this. There has to be someone above the BusTime team that can override this quickly. I wonder if the union can fight against this change supposedly about to take place. 

Lafayette Ave has been removed from the BusTime list for the S94, but the street signs still exist and all buses still stop there. I think the S94 should continue to serve it and let the S90 go back to bypassing it (especially given the growth the S90 has received over the years). 

The BusTime team is so lost and outdated its sickening. Every limited route out here has routing issues on Bustime. The S90 is outdated, the S86 is a copy/paste version of the S76 (they're gonna probably tell me the sole purpose of the S86 is to run local like the S76 with that S90 logic they've provided). The S81 stops are wrong on Bay Street and the Bay St/Townsend Ave stop is missing, the S91/92/96/98 all DO NOT stop at Bay St/Nick Laporte Pl after leaving the ferry. The S93 is missing the Wagner college stop Clove Rd/Howard Ave. The S94 is missing the Lafayette/Richmond terr stop. The S98 is missing the Forest/Decker Ave stop. 

 

Its just a mess, but I don't even wanna report issues anymore because they might f**k around and adjust all the routes to reflect the outdated BusTime lists. 

This whole thing sounds like lots of miscommunication within the MTA. Have you reached out to local politicians? This is the kind of situation they might be able to resolve (I've personally had mixed results, but it's worth a shot)

[bobtehpanda]

If I remember correctly, BusTime was literally a bunch of Hunter college students right?

I suppose that having everything being an "open" standard can be good because it's cheaper, but you do have to eventually pay for maintenance either way.

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

2 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

This whole thing sounds like lots of miscommunication within the MTA. Have you reached out to local politicians? This is the kind of situation they might be able to resolve (I've personally had mixed results, but it's worth a shot)

I don't even know who to reach out to...maybe @Via Garibaldi 8 knows who to reach out to? I mean what would they be able to do? Seems like the MTA cannot even figure out their own service plan, and it seems like a different organization works on the PDF schedules, while BusTime does their own thing, and DOT does their own thing...complacent, confused, and inconsistent.

[Future ENY OP]

Looks like we have a bustime glitch.. I know for sure there's no 6941 in the system. Something to me thinks it could be one of the new XDE40's that MCH have that's not GPS equipped yet or new MHV LFS-Hybrid newly delivered.

Edited July 11, 2021 by Future ENY OP

[checkmatechamp13]

7 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

I saw the map first, so it took me a while to figure out what was going on (then I saw the tweet and it made sense). That detour look kinda random at first without context, since I would have thought that if something like this came up, they would have sent buses via Cross Bay Boulevard to the Rockaways. 

I would've thought they would attempt to provide some Inwood - Far Rockaway coverage (or at least mention the n31 as an alternative, and set up some cross-honoring on the LIRR from Lawrence to Far Rockaway). 

[checkmatechamp13]

7 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

This is sooo jacked up...they cannot go through with this. There has to be someone above the BusTime team that can override this quickly. I wonder if the union can fight against this change supposedly about to take place. 

Lafayette Ave has been removed from the BusTime list for the S94, but the street signs still exist and all buses still stop there. I think the S94 should continue to serve it and let the S90 go back to bypassing it (especially given the growth the S90 has received over the years). 

The BusTime team is so lost and outdated its sickening. Every limited route out here has routing issues on Bustime. The S90 is outdated, the S86 is a copy/paste version of the S76 (they're gonna probably tell me the sole purpose of the S86 is to run local like the S76 with that S90 logic they've provided). The S81 stops are wrong on Bay Street and the Bay St/Townsend Ave stop is missing, the S91/92/96/98 all DO NOT stop at Bay St/Nick Laporte Pl after leaving the ferry. The S93 is missing the Wagner college stop Clove Rd/Howard Ave. The S94 is missing the Lafayette/Richmond terr stop. The S98 is missing the Forest/Decker Ave stop. 

Its just a mess, but I don't even wanna report issues anymore because they might f**k around and adjust all the routes to reflect the outdated BusTime lists. 

Lafayette Avenue & Richmond Terrace was never programmed as an S94 stop. (When we tried to reach out to get that corrected, they decided to add that to the S90, but thankfully they didn't go so far to remove the S94 signage from the stop, so I guess we should keep quiet about it). But yes, I agree, let the S94 handle Lafayette Avenue and let the S90 handle Jersey Street.

As far as I know, the S81 never stopped at Bay & Townsend. Do you mean Bay & St. Johns? (To be honest, I think the stop should be at Bay & Hylan anyway). 

It's only the Brooklyn-bound S93 missing the Clove & Tioga stop. And the westbound S98 is listed as stopping at Willowbrook Road (wouldn't be the worst thing if they moved Decker Avenue to Willowbrook Road, to be across the street from the eastbound stop). Also, if they ever add midday service, it would be helpful to I.S.51 students.

But all the westbound limited-stop routes stopping at Nick La Porta Place...with the conga line of routes waiting to get in and service that stop...I shudder at the thought...

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

28 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Lafayette Avenue & Richmond Terrace was never programmed as an S94 stop. (When we tried to reach out to get that corrected, they decided to add that to the S90, but thankfully they didn't go so far to remove the S94 signage from the stop, so I guess we should keep quiet about it). But yes, I agree, let the S94 handle Lafayette Avenue and let the S90 handle Jersey Street.

As far as I know, the S81 never stopped at Bay & Townsend. Do you mean Bay & St. Johns? (To be honest, I think the stop should be at Bay & Hylan anyway). 

It's only the Brooklyn-bound S93 missing the Clove & Tioga stop. And the westbound S98 is listed as stopping at Willowbrook Road (wouldn't be the worst thing if they moved Decker Avenue to Willowbrook Road, to be across the street from the eastbound stop). Also, if they ever add midday service, it would be helpful to I.S.51 students.

But all the westbound limited-stop routes stopping at Nick La Porta Place...with the conga line of routes waiting to get in and service that stop...I shudder at the thought...

For the S81 my apologies I said Townsend, I meant Willow Ave...I don’t even know the official stops because the bus stops show one thing...the PDF schedule shows another...and BusTime shows ANOTHER...

The S81 signage on the lollipop poles are posted at:

St George Ferry

Bay St/Victory Blvd

Bay St/Water St

Bay St/Willow Av

Bay St/St Johns Av

New York Av/Cost Guard Dr

(everything after is correct)

 

The PDF schedule says the following limited stops are:

St George Ferry

Bay St/Victory Blvd

Bay St/Water St

Bay St/St Johns Ave

New York Av/Cost Guard Dr

(everything after is correct)

 

The BusTime list has the following stops for the S81:

St George Ferry

Bay St/Victory Blvd

Bay St/Water St

Bay St/Hylan Blvd

New York Av/Cost Guard Dr

(everything after is correct)

 

Personally, I’d keep it how the bus stops signs are posted. The Willow Av and St Johns Av stops get used well.

 

The S93 is indeed only Brooklyn Bound, and yes…BusTime has all the limited programmed to stop at Nick LaPorte Place after the ferry. What a joke…

 

Did you even see the S86?? Can you believe they allowed that to look like that for all these years? Even you didn’t mention it, lol. The S86 is really non-existent to everyone...

Edited July 11, 2021 by XcelsiorBoii4888

[checkmatechamp13]

2 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Did you even see the S86?? Can you believe they allowed that to look like that for all these years? Even you didn’t mention it, lol. The S86 is really non-existent to everyone...

I had emailed them about the S86 but as far as this discussion goes...yeah not much to say. Absolutely ridiculous that they can have such an oversight...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

13 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

If I remember correctly, BusTime was literally a bunch of Hunter college students right?

I suppose that having everything being an "open" standard can be good because it's cheaper, but you do have to eventually pay for maintenance either way.

Yeah, it was done by some tech geeks for free. Whenever there was a glitch, they would respond directly to complaints (I think this was around 2011 or whenever BusTime first started on Staten Island), as at that time they were still around and looking to get feedback. Now however, any corrections that are needed are sent out to a contractor every so many weeks whenever they do updates or whatever. There is no one on staff that I'm aware of that they have in house to address such issues. 

11 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

I don't even know who to reach out to...maybe @Via Garibaldi 8 knows who to reach out to? I mean what would they be able to do? Seems like the MTA cannot even figure out their own service plan, and it seems like a different organization works on the PDF schedules, while BusTime does their own thing, and DOT does their own thing...complacent, confused, and inconsistent.

It sounds like this BusTime issue is pretty involved. My first contact in Government Affairs has retired, so I have two new official contacts now in similar positions, though one is involved in the Bus Operations side. It is never easy to get BusTime issues corrected. If it is a simple one, I have done them through the Customer Service Team on Twitter, but it has to be someone that will follow up. Having met some of team in person, I know sometimes I will be assisted depending on who answers, as they know me, but it can be hit or miss. Regardless of which way you go, it usually takes a while. They only update a few times a month, as the requests have to be submitted and then sent over to whatever contractor they use for the updates. What I would do is take screenshots, circle the specific issues and send them over to me. I will see if they can take care of them for you.  

If you ever have schedule issues like the electronic schedules online that they post, they do have someone on staff that can handle that, and that usually can be updated in a few days if not sooner.

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yeah, it was done by some tech geeks for free. Whenever there was a glitch, they would respond directly to complaints (I think this was around 2011 or whenever BusTime first started on Staten Island), as at that time they were still around and looking to get feedback. Now however, any corrections that are needed are sent out to a contractor every so many weeks whenever they do updates or whatever. There is no one on staff that I'm aware of that they have in house to address such issues. 

It sounds like this BusTime issue is pretty involved. My first contact in Government Affairs has retired, so I have two new official contacts now in similar positions, though one is involved in the Bus Operations side. It is never easy to get BusTime issues corrected. If it is a simple one, I have done them through the Customer Service Team on Twitter, but it has to be someone that will follow up. Having met some of team in person, I know sometimes I will be assisted depending on who answers, as they know me, but it can be hit or miss. Regardless of which way you go, it usually takes a while. They only update a few times a month, as the requests have to be submitted and then sent over to whatever contractor they use for the updates. What I would do is take screenshots, circle the specific issues and send them over to me. I will see if they can take care of them for you.  

If you ever have schedule issues like the electronic schedules online that they post, they do have someone on staff that can handle that, and that usually can be updated in a few days if not sooner.

The issues are so grand and oblivious and they are purposely denying their mistakes. I'm starting to think this is deliberate neglect within the MTA. These issues are obvious and they claim they do quarterly checks of all the lines. We should not be doing all of this extra running around just to submit ONE issue. This complaint has been going on since March and the email chain is 11-12 messages long. I provided so many screenshots, photos of the stops, PDFs, etc, and they still refused to admit their mistake and now they want to revert to routes to match what's on Bustime. Clearly there is a disconnect between the different organizations within the MTA, and when it comes down to innocent bus drivers being verbally assaulted by riders for neglect from the MTA, I will make sure the dirty system gets fixed ASAP. I'm ready to take this to whoever is above the BusTime team because it seems intentional to have these issues for so long, and then when someone reports it, they're ready to change the route up without notice or approval. 

 

I will be reaching out to a few third party  affiliates I know within the MTA and once I receive their contact information I will write to them to find out what the organization chart consists of to see who overlooks BusTime, and who the person who overlooks BusTime reports to.

 

This is absolutely ridiculous how something SO easy to do takes so long to fix. 14 years of neglect!! (and yes it's easy, I've learned GTFS data and the Hastus software online in in some coding courses). They do not need a third party contractor updating the system. They need people in house who are communicating directly with Road Ops/DOB/DOT. 

 

This will be straightened out before the year is over. Enough is enough!