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BUS - Random Thoughts Thread


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7 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Does the M60 SBS have an eastern terminal within LGA? Or does it basically do a giant loop like the Q70 SBS?

Giant loop. Changes signage anytime at terminal D/C/B. Most times it's D.

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While on the topic of the M60, are there unscheduled extra short turn trips that we don't know about? For the past month or so I always see an M60 signed up to 2 Av or 31st St while driving home from work.

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2 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

While on the topic of the M60, are there unscheduled extra short turn trips that we don't know about? For the past month or so I always see an M60 signed up to 2 Av or 31st St while driving home from work.

Kinda answered your own question there buddy lol.

Most of the short turns are directed by dispatchers and/or supervisors in the event that buses are needed back going the other direction, delays, ect.

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24 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Buses terminate at Grand Concourse, but contrary to how timetables display the route map, there's no actual terminal/layover in the Highbridge area. If you look at the departure time for the Sedgwick Ave time point in in both directions, the times are exactly the same.

There are a few buses at night which terminate at River Park Towers, but only because they don't go back to Grand Concourse (because if they did, they would arrive after the last trip from GC).

Can confirm this. Basically, it's due to the difference in elevation between Sedgwick & Undercliff, so they want to give people from both corridors direct access to/from the subway lines. (And the same thing when it "terminated" at Sedgwick & Undercliff. The B/O just flipped the sign to 170th Street/Grand Concourse as soon as they reached that stop)

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5 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

What circular routes do we have in the city? And by circular I'm referring to routes that only have one main terminal for shutting the bus off type layovers. 

Queens: Q48, Q70SBS, Q72

Brooklyn: B74

Manhattan: M60SBS

Bronx: Bx23

B74, Bx23, and Q70... Rest of the ones you list, technically have end terminals on both ends.

---------------------------

Q48: Ditmars/102nd in East Elmhurst (across the street from LGA Marriott Hotel); after having served LGA, having emanated from Flushing.

Q72 & M60: Terminal C/D (used to be Central Terminal, but with LGA's redesign.... yeah.)

The Bx18 (as @Future ENY OP mentioned) doesn't qualify either, because the end terminal in Morris Hgts. is River Park Towers... Same block that the Bx40/42 terminates on, but across the street & a couple yards south from it)...

Even the M35 (not mentioned) doesn't quality either, because its terminal in Randall's Island is at the Charles Gay center.... These days, buses ride through it, but I remember when b/o's used to shut the bus off & take the layover there (with pax having to get off & everything)....

edit: The Bx24 (again, not mentioned) has a terminal in Country Club - Research/Ampere... I believe it's a church on that corner IINM...

What these routes all have in common is that they ride through/pass through (however you want to look at it) their terminals for logistical reasons..... Either that, or take very brief breaks at those terminals in question with pax. still onboard the bus... M60 op's inside LGA tends to do the latter at either Terminal C/D or Terminal A....

1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Buses terminate at Grand Concourse, but contrary to how timetables display the route map, there's no actual terminal/layover in the Highbridge area. If you look at the departure time for the West 176th Street time point in the timetable in both directions, the times are exactly the same (except for a few buses which don't operate back to Grand Concourse at night).

33 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Can confirm this. Basically, it's due to the difference in elevation between Sedgwick & Undercliff, so they want to give people from both corridors direct access to/from the subway lines. (And the same thing when it "terminated" at Sedgwick & Undercliff. The B/O just flipped the sign to 170th Street/Grand Concourse as soon as they reached that stop)

See above....

Although widely common, there's nothing saying that a bus route has to layover at a terminal, for a terminal to be a terminal... This is where scheduling/timetables come into play.

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13 minutes ago, Q43LTD said:

Wouldn't the B42 count as a loop route too?  I think the old S60 was a loop route too

B42's definitely not a loop (although the turnaround scenario contains a physical loop); it's just a short route from end to end... It ends across the street from the PJ's at Schenck....

I don't recall how the S60 was set up logistically....

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14 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

B42's definitely not a loop (although the turnaround scenario contains a physical loop); it's just a short route from end to end... It ends across the street from the PJ's at Schenck....

I don't recall how the S60 was set up logistically....

On the map, the S60 looked like a loop route only terminating on Victory just west of Clove. Then there's all those LIRR shuttles LIB had...

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1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

B74, Bx23, and Q70... Rest of the ones you list, technically have end terminals on both ends.

---------------------------

Q48: Ditmars/102nd in East Elmhurst (across the street from LGA Marriott Hotel); after having served LGA, having emanated from Flushing.

Q72 & M60: Terminal C/D (used to be Central Terminal, but with LGA's redesign.... yeah.)

The Bx18 (as @Future ENY OP mentioned) doesn't qualify either, because the end terminal in Morris Hgts. is River Park Towers... Same block that the Bx40/42 terminates on, but across the street & a couple yards south from it)...

Even the M35 (not mentioned) doesn't quality either, because its terminal in Randall's Island is at the Charles Gay center.... These days, buses ride through it, but I remember when b/o's used to shut the bus off & take the layover there (with pax having to get off & everything)....

edit: The Bx24 (again, not mentioned) has a terminal in Country Club - Research/Ampere... I believe it's a church on that corner IINM...

What these routes all have in common is that they ride through/pass through (however you want to look at it) their terminals for logistical reasons..... Either that, or take very brief breaks at those terminals in question with pax. still onboard the bus... M60 op's inside LGA tends to do the latter at either Terminal C/D or Terminal A....

Although widely common, there's nothing saying that a bus route has to layover at a terminal, for a terminal to be a terminal... This is where scheduling/timetables come into play.

That's basically what I was trying to clear. So these are all indeed circular routes (even though they have a "end point" on each end), meaning passengers are allowed to stay on board and can reach a stop that is not adjacent to the stop in the opposite direction. For all these lines, drivers may take a 2-5min break (depending on the line) with people on the bus then continue back to the main terminal. Even with @BM5 via Woodhaven remark about the timetables being continuous throughout the loop, it verifies that internally the line is designed to continue back to the opposite terminal which officially includes a "scheduled layover". 

 

2 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

 

 

Buses terminate at Grand Concourse, but contrary to how timetables display the route map, there's no actual terminal/layover in the Highbridge area. If you look at the departure time for the Sedgwick Ave time point in in both directions, the times are exactly the same.

I noticed that with all the lines Bx18, Bx23, Bx24, B74, M35, M60, Q48, Q70, Q72. I personally don't see why a Bx18 operator would need to rest at Sedgwick with a route that's 40mins or less total the full loop. 

 

The B42 is officially not a loop route as the timetables have layover time on each end. I suppose that will change with the redesign. 

 

Note: I also noticed on the new PDF schedules they've incorporated the loop structure onto the routes. Would've been nice if they could've streamlined the timetables across so the main terminal timepoints are at the left AND right of the timetable and the "turn around point" is in the middle of the timetable (like the B74 PDF) instead of breaking them up into terminal format. Just adds unnecessary route directions to find and extra pages. 

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1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

I don't recall how the S60 was set up logistically....

It started at Victory & Clove, and took Victory-Seneca-Niagara-Clove-Little Clove-Renwick-Milford-Clove-Howard-Arlo-Stratford-Howard-Clove-Victory. (I'm doing it off memory, I forget if it was Stratford but basically it looped around and came back down)

The back of the SI map showed the times leaving Victory & Clove towards Grymes Hill, and then towards Sunnyside just said "continuous loop". The schedules showed a terminal in Grymes Hill, but similar to the Bx18, the arrival time was the departure time of the next trip.

I would tend to agree with the others. I don't see the difference between say, the B74 and Bx18 from a passenger standpoint.

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1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

It started at Victory & Clove, and took Victory-Seneca-Niagara-Clove-Little Clove-Renwick-Milford-Clove-Howard-Arlo-Stratford-Howard-Clove-Victory. (I'm doing it off memory, I forget if it was Stratford but basically it looped around and came back down)

C2-B46-EB6-9-CB5-479-E-A39-C-E2-A6029-D2

 

@B35 via Church for visual purposes 

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1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

It started at Victory & Clove, and took Victory-Seneca-Niagara-Clove-Little Clove-Renwick-Milford-Clove-Howard-Arlo-Stratford-Howard-Clove-Victory.

(I'm doing it off memory, I forget if it was Stratford but basically it looped around and came back down)

19 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

C2-B46-EB6-9-CB5-479-E-A39-C-E2-A6029-D2

@B35 via Church for visual purposes 

I should've been more specific... The routing I remember - I was referring to how it was setup schedule-wise.... Thanks for the throwback map snippet though.

1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The back of the SI map showed the times leaving Victory & Clove towards Grymes Hill, and then towards Sunnyside just said "continuous loop". The schedules showed a terminal in Grymes Hill, but similar to the Bx18, the arrival time was the departure time of the next trip.

I would tend to agree with the others. I don't see the difference between say, the B74 and Bx18 from a passenger standpoint.

Cool, but his nuanced question was asked from an operational standpoint, not a passenger standpoint.

2 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

That's basically what I was trying to clear. So these are all indeed circular routes (even though they have a "end point" on each end), meaning passengers are allowed to stay on board and can reach a stop that is not adjacent to the stop in the opposite direction. For all these lines, drivers may take a 2-5min break (depending on the line) with people on the bus then continue back to the main terminal. Even with @BM5 via Woodhaven remark about the timetables being continuous throughout the loop, it verifies that internally the line is designed to continue back to the opposite terminal which officially includes a "scheduled layover".

I'll just throw this out there FWIW....

At LGA, less often than not, you're not gonna be able to ride through LGA on the Q72 from some point south of it, the way you usually can on the M60 from points west (believe me, I tried on several occasions)....

With the Q48, I find that it's driver dependent as to whether he/she's gonna question where you're getting off at, if you rode through LGA & you're still on the bus at, say, that Ditmars/GCP service rd. stop... It also depends on how many people boarded at LGA & if you're easily discernible or not... In other words, if the bus is crowded (or anything close to it), chances are, you'll be able to ride through LGA & Ditmars/102nd back towards Flushing.... If you're the only person on the bus after Terminal A though, chances are you're gonna get questioned & possibly dumped off at Ditmars/102nd.... I've experienced both situations.

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? On the NF orders: ok so the XD40 7851-7989 design looks more like XDE40s 9500s. Why didn’t they go with the XD40s as they did with 7484-7850 before them? 
 

2) Yesterday was odd on the Q32. Mostly the Q32 is routed to 37th St & 5th Ave to 7th, then turn on it to 32nd St-Penn Sta. This one decided to follow the old routing via 34th St. 

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16 minutes ago, FLX9304 said:

? On the NF orders: ok so the XD40 7851-7989 design looks more like XDE40s 9500s. Why didn’t they go with the XD40s as they did with 7484-7850 before them? 
 

2) Yesterday was odd on the Q32. Mostly the Q32 is routed to 37th St & 5th Ave to 7th, then turn on it to 32nd St-Penn Sta. This one decided to follow the old routing via 34th St. 

The upcoming 2021 XD40 order is an option from the XDE order, so most of the specs on 7851 (including the full roofline) are the same.

Same with the 2021 LFS diesels, they're options from the LFS HEV order, which is why the HVAC unit on 8755 is different from the rest of the LFS diesels.

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7 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Thought we could start the morning with this:

 

6 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yeah and clearly the bus operator had nothing to say about, at least not in the video. lol

What I don't get is that you have to rent a citibike, so you could just park it anywhere and pick one up at your destination.

Noted cycling paradise the Netherlands does not allow bicycles on public transit because of the sheer number of cyclists. (A side effect of this is that Dutch people who bike usually own multiple cheap bikes; one for home to train and one for train to work.) And now it's so popular they build massive underground bike parking garages, the size of our car garages but even more densely packed.

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29 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

 

What I don't get is that you have to rent a citibike, so you could just park it anywhere and pick one up at your destination.

Noted cycling paradise the Netherlands does not allow bicycles on public transit because of the sheer number of cyclists. (A side effect of this is that Dutch people who bike usually own multiple cheap bikes; one for home to train and one for train to work.) And now it's so popular they build massive underground bike parking garages, the size of our car garages but even more densely packed.

In most European cities, they don't allow bikes on buses (the Nordic countries are good examples of this (Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland and Iceland in particular (I don't know what Greenland does)) in general just because of the whole lack of room situation.  Since so many people bike in the Netherlands, bikes are fairly cheap to begin with, but there is the infrastructure there to support it, which definitely was not always the case.  There was huge resistance to it back in the day.  It also helps that the Netherlands is fairly flat and small, so you can also live in a suburban part of the City and bike into the City center, just as I could easily walk from my apartment in Florence in Italy to Downtown in about 15 - 20 minutes, as most European cities are small.

With Citibike you can dock a bike and then grab another, but in some areas, Citibike is not up and running yet, so that creates a problem in some cases. What you cannot do however is just leave the bike anywhere. It must be docked at a docking station. My understanding is the user is billed for it otherwise.

I mention this because we have been finding Citibikes near the Riverdale border lately. I suspect that since there are no docking stations here, people are biking from areas of the Bronx that have them, and are then stuck trying to figure out what to do with them.  Not many people bike here because it is so hilly, but the ones that do have their own bikes anyway.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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Another question yall...what routes with a branch at the end do we have? Like the SIM30 having two southern terminals, the B41 having two eastern terminals, the Q1 having two northern terminals, etc. Any other routes like that? Not like the Q15/Q15A or M14A/M14D because those are two separate routes. 

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8 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Another question yall...what routes with a branch at the end do we have? Like the SIM30 having two southern terminals, the B41 having two eastern terminals, the Q1 having two northern terminals, etc. Any other routes like that? Not like the Q15/Q15A or M14A/M14D because those are two separate routes. 

B17 does during rush hour only.

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23 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Another question yall...what routes with a branch at the end do we have? Like the SIM30 having two southern terminals, the B41 having two eastern terminals, the Q1 having two northern terminals, etc. Any other routes like that? Not like the Q15/Q15A or M14A/M14D because those are two separate routes. 

The M14A and M14D are not two separate routes. They are also two branches.  Same deal with the M34 and M34A.  The Union Turnpike express buses are another example. They run down the same corridor for a chunk of their route then branch off. They are considered branches by the (MTA) and the DOT:

Quote

• 2018 design was intended for M14 SBS route from 10th Av to Stuyvesant Cove ferry, with local bus service on M14A and D branches

https://new.mta.info/sites/default/files/2019-03/M14 SBS Briefing_Mn CB5_2019_0325.pdf

There are a host others as well:

QM10/QM40/QM11 - 6th Av, 3rd Av and Downtown branches

QM24/QM34/QM25 - 6th Av, 3rd Av and Downtown branches

The Hylan Blvd branches are another example.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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20 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The M14A and M14D are not two separate routes. They are also two branches.  Same deal with the M34 and M34A.  The Union Turnpike express buses are another example. They run down the same corridor for a chunk of their route then branch off. They are considered branches by the (MTA) and the DOT:

https://new.mta.info/sites/default/files/2019-03/M14 SBS Briefing_Mn CB5_2019_0325.pdf

There are a host others as well:

QM10/QM40/QM11 - 6th Av, 3rd Av and Downtown branches

QM24/QM34/QM25 - 6th Av, 3rd Av and Downtown branches

The Hylan Blvd branches are another example.

Thanks but I wasn't talking in terms of logistics I'm talking about individual routes that you search up on Bustime showing the end of the line's stops alternating down the list to represent the two terminals along the line. 

@trainfan22 providing the B17 as another route is what I was looking for. I'm looking for routes that have this set up for the two (or more) branches. 

94-C7139-B-039-C-4-D15-8-B31-2-CABEF36-A

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2 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Thanks but I wasn't talking in terms of logistics I'm talking about individual routes that you search up on Bustime showing the end of the line's stops alternating down the list to represent the two terminals along the line. 

@trainfan22 providing the B17 as another route is what I was looking for. I'm looking for routes that have this set up for the two (or more) branches. 

94-C7139-B-039-C-4-D15-8-B31-2-CABEF36-A

That's fine, but the way your question is phrased there are a number of lines that fall into that category, whether you realize it or not. In any event, the B3 falls into that category.

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