BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[Future ENY OP]

6 hours ago, Calvin said:

I heard that somewhere around January 2022 (the start of the winter session), the Bx39 will move to Gun Hill. No route from Gun Hill will head to West Farms. My guess is that MTA is finding the right depot for this route to see which depot is closer when in deadhead. 

I just posed that question the other day on the random bus thread and now possibly this... IMO I think the Gun Hill is a better deadhead than West Farms. Notably, the Bx39 has now gone to 3 garages in its history: Kingsbridge, Gun Hill and West Farms.  

Edited October 15, 2021 by Future ENY OP

[Transit Enthusiast]

So about 2 weeks ago today, #6709 ran on the M72 (which is extremely rare since Orions are notorious for height restrictions in the 65th Street Transverse). However, with the fleet of Old Gens being retired (and Next Gens being pushed out to other Depots), I'm wondering if the XDE40s can fit through the 65th Street Transverse, since their roof height is slightly lower. 

I've seen M31s and M57s (both Hybrid routes) be rerouted through 65th Street back at the turn of 2020 (12/31/2019).

[SevenEleven]

Hybrids can fit thru the transverse fine. You just have to straddle the middle of the street to clear properly, which is probably why they don’t want them on the line like that. 

[JeremiahC99]

1 hour ago, Transit Enthusiast said:

I'm wondering if the XDE40s can fit through the 65th Street Transverse, since their roof height is slightly lower. 

9604 ran on the M72 on Sunday. Made a number of round trips over there that day and went right through the transverse.

[Lawrence St]

Spinning off the topic of bus lanes, why is it that the B82+ is the only SBS line in the system to not run on weekends? All that infrastructure built just for a line to use it 5 days a week? Seems like a waste IMO, especially when the B82LCL takes forever on the weekends.

[JeremiahC99]

8 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Spinning off the topic of bus lanes, why is it that the B82+ is the only SBS line in the system to not run on weekends? All that infrastructure built just for a line to use it 5 days a week? Seems like a waste IMO, especially when the B82LCL takes forever on the weekends.

I was wondering the same thing when the service was planned in early 2018. Clearly they have the potential to run the B82 SBS on a 10-minute headway during the weekends to build ridership. Unless I’m missing something here.

[Around the Horn]

4 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I was wondering the same thing when the service was planned in early 2018. Clearly they have the potential to run the B82 SBS on a 10-minute headway during the weekends to build ridership. Unless I’m missing something here.

I think the idea was the B82 SBS would go artic at some point and then they would introduce weekend service, but I'm sure the pandemic has messed that up.

[JeremiahC99]

12 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

I think the idea was the B82 SBS would go artic at some point and then they would introduce weekend service, but I'm sure the pandemic has messed that up.

Well can’t they do it now with the standard buses? They have 22-26 buses for the service sitting at the depot doing nothing when weekend subway shuttle buses for weekend service changes aren’t operating. Can’t it be better if they had the SBS run on weekends with a 10-minute headways while we can find buses for the weekend subway shuttles, or would that mess things up for the subway work?

[Cait Sith]

8 hours ago, Transit Enthusiast said:

I'm wondering if the XDE40s can fit through the 65th Street Transverse, since their roof height is slightly lower.

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Cait Sith

[Jdog14]

4 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Well can’t they do it now with the standard buses? They have 22-26 buses for the service sitting at the depot doing nothing when weekend subway shuttle buses for weekend service changes aren’t operating. Can’t it be better if they had the SBS run on weekends with a 10-minute headways while we can find buses for the weekend subway shuttles, or would that mess things up for the subway work?

 

I think ridership doesn't warrant the service running weekends. The limited only ran during the rush hrs and now they have the SBS running all day. 

[JeremiahC99]

12 minutes ago, Jdog14 said:

 

I think ridership doesn't warrant the service running weekends. The limited only ran during the rush hrs and now they have the SBS running all day. 

Could part of that low weekend ridership be due to the fact that most people don't use the B82 since the crosstown trip is often a slow and infrequent trip too? I'm pretty sure if the crosstown trip were sped up on a corridor that has like no east-west subway service, then more people would be inclined to ride transit rather than drive or use car-sharing. Isn't that the goal? Get people off cars and onto ridership? How would one do that with slow and infrequent buses making too many stops during off-hours?

[SoSpectacular]

1 hour ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Could part of that low weekend ridership be due to the fact that most people don't use the B82 since the crosstown trip is often a slow and infrequent trip too? I'm pretty sure if the crosstown trip were sped up on a corridor that has like no east-west subway service, then more people would be inclined to ride transit rather than drive or use car-sharing. Isn't that the goal? Get people off cars and onto ridership? How would one do that with slow and infrequent buses making too many stops during off-hours?

That ball would have to fall in DOT's court and the way they've set the streets up to slow traffic in general down. All that congestion that results is never any good for the buses and emergency vehicles...

[Jdog14]

2 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Could part of that low weekend ridership be due to the fact that most people don't use the B82 since the crosstown trip is often a slow and infrequent trip too? I'm pretty sure if the crosstown trip were sped up on a corridor that has like no east-west subway service, then more people would be inclined to ride transit rather than drive or use car-sharing. Isn't that the goal? Get people off cars and onto ridership? How would one do that with slow and infrequent buses making too many stops during off-hours?

 

Most people are probably just taking the B6. The 6 has the benefit of bringing people to the IRT where as the 82 is just the Broadway and 6th ave lines (both suck ass during the weekend compared to the IRT)

[JeremiahC99]

11 hours ago, Jdog14 said:

 

Most people are probably just taking the B6. The 6 has the benefit of bringing people to the IRT where as the 82 is just the Broadway and 6th ave lines (both suck ass during the weekend compared to the IRT)

Yeah, but the B6 serves only the northern part of the Flatlands and Midwood via Avenue H, Avenue J, and Bay Pkwy while the B82 serves the center part of Flatlands, Midwood and other areas via a relatively straightforward route via Flatlands Avenue and Kings Hwy. It also serves Spring Creek Towers directly, whereas the B6 goes over to the New Lots Avenue  station. I'm pretty sure there would plenty of people who live along the B82 who would kill to have better service over there during off-peak hours (especially if the route ran every 10 minutes), especially in the part of the Flatlands/Old Mill Basin area I live in, where the east-west bus service sucks ass during weekends. Why not give it a try for a year?

For the IRT connection, perhaps in the long term future we can have a modest extension of the Nostrand Avenue Line from its current inefficient terminal at Flatbush Avenue to a new terminal at Kings Hwy and Nostrand Avenue (with one stop at Avenue K) to meet up with the B7, B9, and B82. 

12 hours ago, SoSpectacular said:

That ball would have to fall in DOT's court and the way they've set the streets up to slow traffic in general down. All that congestion that results is never any good for the buses and emergency vehicles...

You're right. Perhaps they could also start expanding bus lane enforcement and what not.

[B35 via Church]

10 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Could part of that low weekend ridership be due to the fact that most people don't use the B82 since the crosstown trip is often a slow and infrequent trip too? I'm pretty sure if the crosstown trip were sped up on a corridor that has like no east-west subway service, then more people would be inclined to ride transit rather than drive or use car-sharing. Isn't that the goal? Get people off cars and onto ridership? How would one do that with slow and infrequent buses making too many stops during off-hours?

...except the B82 isn't as slow like it sounds like you're making it out to be on weekends & it sure as hell isn't infrequent.... Unreliable, sure... Infrequent, nah...... Matter of fact, I'd say there's too much service on weekends... That could be a factor as to why they aren't running SBS' on the thing on weekends.... If it is, then I have zero problem with it... I don't see that many more people cumulatively taking SBS' & locals on weekends anyway, compared to the route's current logistical setup (local service only)..... Quite frankly, there's been way more west-of-the-Brighton line ridership since the advent of the B82, there's still too much service running down towards Coney Island...

...which segues into my fundamental sentiment of the B82 - the thing should've never been created to begin with.... One of the reasons they even came out with LTD service, was due to this belief that it would somehow get through the (then) notorious traffic jams b/w Ocean av. & Coney Island av. quicker.... Maybe by teleportation, wtf knows.... Anyway, another reason was to address growing ridership, and IINM, the other reason had to do with high volume of boardings/dropoffs at major intersections (like that's not the case for a shitload of other routes in this city that doesn't have LTD service... Lol).... As far as SBS service, while faster than the LTD service it replaced, I still say the best thing that came from the B82 SBS's creation was the streamlining of the course it took around the train station...

[B35 via Church]

11 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Yeah, but the B6 serves only the northern part of the Flatlands and Midwood via Avenue H, Avenue J, and Bay Pkwy while the B82 serves the center part of Flatlands, Midwood and other areas via a relatively straightforward route via Flatlands Avenue and Kings Hwy. It also serves Spring Creek Towers directly, whereas the B6 goes over to the New Lots Avenue  station. I'm pretty sure there would plenty of people who live along the B82 who would kill to have better service over there during off-peak hours (especially if the route ran every 10 minutes), especially in the part of the Flatlands/Old Mill Basin area I live in, where the east-west bus service sucks ass during weekends. Why not give it a try for a year?

The B82 serves the center part of Flatlands, but the B9 serves the center part of Midwood.... Regardless, he still has a point.... In his neck of the woods, the IRT trumps the BMT/IND, so bringing up what the B6 & B82 does on the eastern end of their respective routes hardly helps the case for expanded B82 SBS service on weekends.... The "suck"-age of B82 service stems from its unreliability moreso than its sluggishness on weekends....

Why not give it a try? That's an easy one.... If the weekend B82 ends up being even a moderate success, then perfect... If it ends up being a failure though, for as much as the MTA's been touting how great & groundbreaking SBS in general is, to have to revocate SBS service in any fashion, it would not be a good look... You still have people up in arms along/around Kings Hwy. regarding the whole bus lane issue (the basic implementation/creation of it).... And then there's the whole, decreasing of local service to facilitate the (would-be) addition of weekend SBS'... They wouldn't maintain the same level of current local service...

[JeremiahC99]

2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

...except the B82 isn't as slow like it sounds like you're making it out to be on weekends & it sure as hell isn't infrequent.... Unreliable, sure... Infrequent, nah...... Matter of fact, I'd say there's too much service on weekends... That could be a factor as to why they aren't running SBS' on the thing on weekends.... If it is, then I have zero problem with it... I don't see that many more people cumulatively taking SBS' & locals on weekends anyway, compared to the route's current logistical setup (local service only)..... Quite frankly, there's been way more west-of-the-Brighton line ridership since the advent of the B82, there's still too much service running down towards Coney Island...

...which segues into my fundamental sentiment of the B82 - the thing should've never been created to begin with.... One of the reasons they even came out with LTD service, was due to this belief that it would somehow get through the (then) notorious traffic jams b/w Ocean av. & Coney Island av. quicker.... Maybe by teleportation, wtf knows.... Anyway, another reason was to address growing ridership, and IINM, the other reason had to do with high volume of boardings/dropoffs at major intersections (like that's not the case for a shitload of other routes in this city that doesn't have LTD service... Lol).... As far as SBS service, while faster than the LTD service it replaced, I still say the best thing that came from the B82 SBS's creation was the streamlining of the course it took around the train station...

I'm well aware of the traffic between Ocean and Coney Island Avenues, since I've have ridden through the area numerous times, especially during the evening. From my experience, with the Limited buses it did not go through the area quicker, though it did help elsewhere in the route. However since you said that the route should've not been created in the first place, do you think the local route should be split back up into two separate routes with an overlap through the Brighton Line transfer hub?

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

The B82 serves the center part of Flatlands, but the B9 serves the center part of Midwood.... Regardless, he still has a point.... In his neck of the woods, the IRT trumps the BMT/IND, so bringing up what the B6 & B82 does on the eastern end of their respective routes hardly helps the case for expanded B82 SBS service on weekends.... The "suck"-age of B82 service stems from its unreliability moreso than its sluggishness on weekends....

Why not give it a try? That's an easy one.... If the weekend B82 ends up being even a moderate success, then perfect... If it ends up being a failure though, for as much as the MTA's been touting how great & groundbreaking SBS in general is, to have to revocate SBS service in any fashion, it would not be a good look... You still have people up in arms along/around Kings Hwy. regarding the whole bus lane issue (the basic implementation/creation of it).... And then there's the whole, decreasing of local service to facilitate the (would-be) addition of weekend SBS'... They wouldn't maintain the same level of current local service...

Looks like you do have some points over there, though I still think a weekend B82 SBS should be something to consider, as part of the redesign or something.

Can a route split address the unreliability in general?

Edited October 16, 2021 by JeremiahC99

[1train2255railfan]

Apparently, someone messed up on the painting of LFS HEV 9831’s numbers on its roof. Though the bus itself is #9831, the roof indicates #9830. 

[QM1to6Ave]

I know this is a total pie-in-the-sky idea, but I wish we could get DOT to turn the Queens Blvd bike lanes into bus lanes (or even an HOV lane). It would relieve the insane traffic and motivate more people to take the buses instead of driving. I see maybe 3 or 4 scooters use those lanes each day on the entire length of the express bus trip from the bridge to Union Tpke--what a waste of space. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

36 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

I know this is a total pie-in-the-sky idea, but I wish we could get DOT to turn the Queens Blvd bike lanes into bus lanes (or even an HOV lane). It would relieve the insane traffic and motivate more people to take the buses instead of driving. I see maybe 3 or 4 scooters use those lanes each day on the entire length of the express bus trip from the bridge to Union Tpke--what a waste of space. 

IIRC, part of Queens Boulevard in Woodside is set to get the Woodhaven Boulevard treatment, meaning the Q60 will operate towards the center of the Boulevard, and with bus lanes. It wouldn't cover the entire portion of that trip, but it can get congested in that area, particularly around 69th Street, so that may help somewhat. I have no idea of the timeline of the project though. 

[B35 via Church]

5 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

I know this is a total pie-in-the-sky idea, but I wish we could get DOT to turn the Queens Blvd bike lanes into bus lanes (or even an HOV lane). It would relieve the insane traffic and motivate more people to take the buses instead of driving. I see maybe 3 or 4 scooters use those lanes each day on the entire length of the express bus trip from the bridge to Union Tpke--what a waste of space. 

Bike lanes on the dubbed "boulevard of death".... Novel concept.

Anyway, you would think your idea here would be common sense....

14 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I'm well aware of the traffic between Ocean and Coney Island Avenues, since I've have ridden through the area numerous times, especially during the evening. From my experience, with the Limited buses it did not go through the area quicker, though it did help elsewhere in the route. However since you said that the route should've not been created in the first place, do you think the local route should be split back up into two separate routes with an overlap through the Brighton Line transfer hub?

Especially now that the west-of-Brighton-line has exponentially more than straggler level ridership (*looks at the tombstone of the former B5*), I would say yes... A sizable portion of these riders disembark at either Coney Island av. or for the Brighton line itself & most are off the bus at Flatbush...

14 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Looks like you do have some points over there, though I still think a weekend B82 SBS should be something to consider, as part of the redesign or something.

Can a route split address the unreliability in general?

I'm of the belief that it would, although completely eradicating it for the east-of-Brighton-line riders (the majority of B82 riders) isn't as easy.... Ever since the B82 was created, the stint b/w SCT (Spring Creek Towers) & Canarsie has been the most sluggish part of the route & it doesn't have to be that way.... Before trying their hand at weekend B82 SBS service (between SCT & UP depot; the current SBS routing), I'd like for them to run B82 weekday SBS service b/w SCT & Coney Island/Quentin & see how that pans out....

Edited October 17, 2021 by B35 via Church

[QM1to6Ave]

I'm curious if anyone on here knows if this story is totally true, or somewhat "pumped up" by the Post to seem more dramatic than it is. Certainly not hard to believe, though.

 

https://nypost.com/2021/10/17/86m-bus-war-room-empty-falling-apart-two-years-later/

 

[SoSpectacular]

1 hour ago, QM1to6Ave said:

I'm curious if anyone on here knows if this story is totally true, or somewhat "pumped up" by the Post to seem more dramatic than it is. Certainly not hard to believe, though.

 

https://nypost.com/2021/10/17/86m-bus-war-room-empty-falling-apart-two-years-later/

 

It's currently the laughing stock among the operators...

[QM1to6Ave]

44 minutes ago, SoSpectacular said:

It's currently the laughing stock among the operators...

Oh boy, I was hoping it was overblown. Pathetic!

[trainfan22]

QV has one of the most diverse local fleets yet everytime I ride their routes I always get a damn NG, an LFS or OG would be nice every now and then lol

 

 

Edited October 19, 2021 by trainfan22