BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[Via Garibaldi 8]

13 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

Been trying to get the MTA to do something about fare evasion for months now. Still don't see any action, while 3/4 of the passengers on the bus don't pay in Staten Island.

I do like your idea however. But the sense of entitlement I seen in boarding buses for free, makes me tilt more towards harsher fines than just getting off the bus and getting on the next one for free. I guess its better than nothing

From my experience, Manhattan has more farebeating passengers than Queens. Could be where I am (Jackson heights) most people transfer to the subway anyways. But even in major hubs, such as Flushing, the amount of farebeating is nowhere to the tune of people not paying at say St George or along 125th Street or at "The Hub". (one of the reason why buses are so slow through Flushing (too many people pay!) versus half the people walking by the driver/entering through the backdoor.

I don't understand why race has to be part of the discussion. Plenty of minorities cough up the $2.75 each and every day to pay the fare. If they pay, they won't get a ticket, simple as that. 

I mean if you really want to catch some "non-minorities" just take the S79 along Hylan Blvd or the S74 south of Eltingville. Fare beating is prevalent down there as well.

Honestly I think the entire SI system should just be a proof of payment system at this point. Activate the OMNY backdoor reader, Metrocard/coin passengers board through the front, dip and take transfer which is valid for 2 hrs of unlimited ride within the borough 

It's simple. Because Blacks and Latinos apparently make up the majority of people stopped for farebeating. On Staten Island, yes, there are some Whites that ride the local buses, but that varies on the line and you have high farebeating particularly on lines that run through minority areas there. Hell my home line was the S48. That line has bad farebeating particularly from Port Richmond onto Arlington, some of the poorest areas of Staten Island, so some would argue that income plays a role and that those people shouldn't be punished for that. Those levels went down considerably as you rode through Westerleigh and West Brighton, both middle to upper middle class areas where I lived.

Looking at probably the next big hotspot aside from Staten Island, the Bronx, using my current area here in Riverdale as an example, we have very low farebeating rates, which one would expect being an upper middle to upper class area. Once you cross east of Broadway on the local buses on lines like the Bx1, that changes immediately, and I know because I have seen it with my own eyes. A few times I have walked down the hill and hopped on the Bx1 just to Broadway & W 231st since one was coming to reload my Metrocard, there were so many people coming through the back door as I got off that it was insane. In comparison, the few times that I have seen farebeating in my neighborhood, it had usually been school kids of color. That said though, the demographics of who ride the local buses also has to be noted. Mainly people of color if we look Citywide. 

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2019/08/13/report--minorities-make-up-majority-of-fare-beat-stops

I had to serve on jury duty in the South Bronx years ago on a case for almost a month. I would either be walking to the BxM4 from the courthouse or waiting for it to stop by my office, and the farebeating on the Bx1 and Bx2 was insane. The Bx6 as well, just steps from the courthouses. Nobody cares because it's become too common. Here and there I do see non-minorities hopping the turnstiles, but on the local buses, not as much. You get them on occasion on the express bus, but again not in the same numbers, so just by being a numbers thing, you'd likely have more people of color ticketed, etc.

Now what I will say is I don't know why the  would suddenly listen to any Joe Schmoe about enforcement when they haven't done anything about it in years. The only time they've done crackdowns is when elected officials have complained and demanded that something be done, but that has to be coordinated with the NYPD and resources will be pulled to tend to more "important matters". Who knows. Maybe with Adams in office, who is more competent than de Blasio and rational and stands for law and order, maybe we'll see something change, but the Progressives will yell and scream that it punishes poverty and how we need an "equitable system". Every time that they have proposed fare hikes, I have spoken at hearings calling for them to address their farebeating problem, and the board members look mystified. Yes, get your fiscal house in order...

With the Fair Fares Program, I think it's more than equitable, but people just don't want to pay, period.

Another thing... You noted that Queens doesn't have such high farebeating rates... Well yeah. It's probably the most middle class borough. You don't really have out and out poor neighborhoods in Queens. There are exceptions but those are more like working class areas. Hell some of the Black neighborhoods there have some of the highest income levels in the borough, as they are solidly middle class, so you really can't compare. The other boroughs have larger swaths of poverty and more income disparity.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Future ENY OP]

17 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

I think you might be referring to the Q21A. That's the only Green Lines route that I recall going into that part of Brooklyn. 

What was the reason of the 21A getting eliminated in that portion of East New York to Ozone Park/Howard Beach?

Would this route be useful for today’s climate. 

[Bx41 boi]

I heard from the Wiki that 4799  (XD60) retired due to fire damage but i cant find proof of this is it true?

[Future ENY OP]

4 minutes ago, Bx41 boi said:

I heard from the Wiki that 4799  (XD60) retired due to fire damage but i cant find proof of this is it true?

What you mean you heard?  Heard what?  🤷🏽‍♂️

I’m just saying.  You are years late with this. However, with some research you would be able to read what happened to the bus.  

[trainfan22]

25 minutes ago, Bx41 boi said:

I heard from the Wiki that 4799  (XD60) retired due to fire damage but i cant find proof of this is it true?

You can't find proof because its most likely parked at ECH Scrap in an area it can't be easily photographed. 

[Bx41 boi]

31 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

What you mean you heard?  Heard what?  🤷🏽‍♂️

I’m just saying.  You are years late with this. However, with some research you would be able to read what happened to the bus.  

thanks

[JAzumah]

17 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

What was the reason of the 21A getting eliminated in that portion of East New York to Ozone Park/Howard Beach?

Would this route be useful for today’s climate. 

Low ridership. It would work today with an extension to Gateway Mall. You would integrate it with the B84 in some form or fashion. 

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

On 1/20/2022 at 1:30 AM, Mtatransit said:

Been trying to get the MTA to do something about fare evasion for months now. Still don't see any action, while 3/4 of the passengers on the bus don't pay in Staten Island.

I do like your idea however. But the sense of entitlement I seen in boarding buses for free, makes me tilt more towards harsher fines than just getting off the bus and getting on the next one for free. I guess its better than nothing

From my experience, Manhattan has more farebeating passengers than Queens. Could be where I am (Jackson heights) most people transfer to the subway anyways. But even in major hubs, such as Flushing, the amount of farebeating is nowhere to the tune of people not paying at say St George or along 125th Street or at "The Hub". (one of the reason why buses are so slow through Flushing (too many people pay!) versus half the people walking by the driver/entering through the backdoor.

I don't understand why race has to be part of the discussion. Plenty of minorities cough up the $2.75 each and every day to pay the fare. If they pay, they won't get a ticket, simple as that. 

I mean if you really want to catch some "non-minorities" just take the S79 along Hylan Blvd or the S74 south of Eltingville. Fare beating is prevalent down there as well.

Honestly I think the entire SI system should just be a proof of payment system at this point. Activate the OMNY backdoor reader, Metrocard/coin passengers board through the front, dip and take transfer which is valid for 2 hrs of unlimited ride within the borough 

They seem to care about implementing something, but at the same time it seems like all their ideas lead to people being targeted or singled out. If you have a standard rule of just having police present just watching to see if you pay, if not get off, then its not going to lead to subjection. Don't want to get off, then pay. Its like the subway. The cops be at the turnstile, if you pay, you're good, if not, keep walking. Most people who do try to fare-beat end up having a valid card and pay on spot. Its a simple policy that can be enforced easily, just requires enough labor and consistency.

 

I already don't like Adams with his whole emphasis on emphasizing Vision Zero and turning NYC into a personal vehicle-less city, and allowing pedestrians and bikes to do whatever they want to do in streets without any enforcement. I support pedestrian safety, but pedestrians and bikes need to be held accountable too. Anyways, if he is truly about law and order, then I don't see why he wouldn't try to implement a strategy like this to combat fare-beating.

 

Proof of payment is just another way to target people, its impossible to check everyone's ticket on crowded buses. It would only lead to police and agents subjecting to who they want to check during their limited time, which can lead to issues. You can only start proof of payment when its rooted in the customers mentally that paying is required and strictly enforced. If that mindset is not there yet, then proof of payment should not be started.

 

I be talking shit when I see people not pay on the bus. I can be in the back near the door, and I'll start a fake conversation on the phone, watch people get on and not pay, and then I'll make comments out loud like "Yoo its crazy how many people cannot afford a $2.75 bus fare, its sad how many poor people there are in 2022." People that didn't pay look at me embarrassed, but I don't feel bad. I few people made comments back saying "I can afford it I just don't pay because why pay if others don't pay", "Service sucks so I aint paying for this shit", "OMG no I can afford it I just don't pay because it takes extra time and it doesn't really matter". Being poor is not an excuse to break the law and steal, and with all these government programs and MTA fare programs, everyone in that category should be eligible. Most people do it out of entitlement, and make excuses that service sucks so they shouldn't pay for it.

[biGC323232]

18 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It's simple. Because Blacks and Latinos apparently make up the majority of people stopped for farebeating. On Staten Island, yes, there are some Whites that ride the local buses, but that varies on the line and you have high farebeating particularly on lines that run through minority areas there. Hell my home line was the S48. That line has bad farebeating particularly from Port Richmond onto Arlington, some of the poorest areas of Staten Island, so some would argue that income plays a role and that those people shouldn't be punished for that. Those levels went down considerably as you rode through Westerleigh and West Brighton, both middle to upper middle class areas where I lived.

Looking at probably the next big hotspot aside from Staten Island, the Bronx, using my current area here in Riverdale as an example, we have very low farebeating rates, which one would expect being an upper middle to upper class area. Once you cross east of Broadway on the local buses on lines like the Bx1, that changes immediately, and I know because I have seen it with my own eyes. A few times I have walked down the hill and hopped on the Bx1 just to Broadway & W 231st since one was coming to reload my Metrocard, there were so many people coming through the back door as I got off that it was insane. In comparison, the few times that I have seen farebeating in my neighborhood, it had usually been school kids of color. That said though, the demographics of who ride the local buses also has to be noted. Mainly people of color if we look Citywide. 

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2019/08/13/report--minorities-make-up-majority-of-fare-beat-stops

I had to serve on jury duty in the South Bronx years ago on a case for almost a month. I would either be walking to the BxM4 from the courthouse or waiting for it to stop by my office, and the farebeating on the Bx1 and Bx2 was insane. The Bx6 as well, just steps from the courthouses. Nobody cares because it's become too common. Here and there I do see non-minorities hopping the turnstiles, but on the local buses, not as much. You get them on occasion on the express bus, but again not in the same numbers, so just by being a numbers thing, you'd likely have more people of color ticketed, etc.

Now what I will say is I don't know why the  would suddenly listen to any Joe Schmoe about enforcement when they haven't done anything about it in years. The only time they've done crackdowns is when elected officials have complained and demanded that something be done, but that has to be coordinated with the NYPD and resources will be pulled to tend to more "important matters". Who knows. Maybe with Adams in office, who is more competent than de Blasio and rational and stands for law and order, maybe we'll see something change, but the Progressives will yell and scream that it punishes poverty and how we need an "equitable system". Every time that they have proposed fare hikes, I have spoken at hearings calling for them to address their farebeating problem, and the board members look mystified. Yes, get your fiscal house in order...

With the Fair Fares Program, I think it's more than equitable, but people just don't want to pay, period.

Another thing... You noted that Queens doesn't have such high farebeating rates... Well yeah. It's probably the most middle class borough. You don't really have out and out poor neighborhoods in Queens. There are exceptions but those are more like working class areas. Hell some of the Black neighborhoods there have some of the highest income levels in the borough, as they are solidly middle class, so you really can't compare. The other boroughs have larger swaths of poverty and more income disparity.

Lol..Dam farebeating is that bad on staten island...Shit they mind as well go back to the open the back door covid rule.....Shit i live on a hood line here in Nj....I tell u some NJT drivers will blow ya spot if you try sneaking on the back....Some drivers go as far as to not move the bus until u pay ya fare

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 hours ago, biGC323232 said:

Lol..Dam farebeating is that bad on staten island...Shit they mind as well go back to the open the back door covid rule.....Shit i live on a hood line here in Nj....I tell u some NJT drivers will blow ya spot if you try sneaking on the back....Some drivers go as far as to not move the bus until u pay ya fare

It used to be that way back in the day. Unfortunately, not anymore. I'll be honest. I don't think I recall seeing that much farebeating growing up in Southern Brooklyn. If someone tried it, the driver would either make an announcement, not move the bus, or call to have the NYPD come and remove the fare beaters from the bus. When we moved to Staten Island, it wasn't until a few years after when I had finished college and started working in the City that I noticed it. This was after 2004. I don't recall seeing many people fare beating when we'd visit family there though, but we usually went by car and only a few times we took the bus there and that was in the late 90s.

I recall a few incidents though. One night, we get on a S48 from the ferry. It had to be 9 or 10pm. We're sitting there wondering why we aren't moving. Driver makes it known that he isn't moving until some guy pays. The guy had boarded and sat down. Now everyone is becoming annoyed. Two other guys got up, pulled the guy up and literally shoved him off of the bus. LOL I don't know if he had did that before or what, but it was clear that the driver was not going to tolerate it. However, I recall another incident where a driver had some guys removed or something for not paying. They got his bus again, all paid and then beat him up at the end of the line, so I would imagine with those sorts of incidents and others where drivers were injured or worse that the  took the stance to not confront fare beaters, at least not on the local buses anyway. Shortly after I started working in the City permanently, I switched to the express bus. Didn't want all of the drama. There were a few instances where people wouldn't pay, but far less and usually the driver would hold the bus and make an announcement.

From my personal experience, on the express buses, Staten Island has the worst fare beating, though not anywhere near what the local buses have. In the Bronx, I can count the people on one hand that don't pay, and I've ridden every single line. I will say though that Staten Island had an excuse because getting a Metrocard on the island can be impossible. Even I had to go around to various stores trying to get change because no one had any Metrocards, and the Eltingville Transit Center can have all of the machines broken (regular occurrence). For that reason, unless I was on vacation, I always refilled in the City. With OMNY now, there's less of an excuse.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Calvin]

There are changes for the travelers with baggage going to Terminal 5, JFK Airport: Q3, Q10 and B15. Their terminal will be relocated to the Lefferts Blvd-Airtrain station as construction proposal to start around March 27, 2022 said to end around 2026. 

Edited January 22, 2022 by Calvin

[paulrivera]

13 hours ago, Calvin said:

There are changes for the travelers with baggage going to Terminal 5, JFK Airport: Q3, Q10 and B15. Their terminal will be relocated to the Lefferts Blvd-Airtrain station as construction proposal to start around March 27, 2022 said to end around 2026. 

The is going to save too much money with these changes to bring the Q10 and B15 back into the airport terminals. I think this is going to end up being a permanent change (unless the Port Authority complains or something)

[NewFlyer 230]

On 1/21/2022 at 9:41 AM, biGC323232 said:

Lol..Dam farebeating is that bad on staten island...Shit they mind as well go back to the open the back door covid rule.....Shit i live on a hood line here in Nj....I tell u some NJT drivers will blow ya spot if you try sneaking on the back....Some drivers go as far as to not move the bus until u pay ya fare

I find a lot of NICE bus drivers are also strict when it comes to enforcing the fare. I’ve seen drivers tell people to leave the bus whereas in NYC drivers let farebeaters on and push the farebeat button. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

14 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I find a lot of NICE bus drivers are also strict when it comes to enforcing the fare. I’ve seen drivers tell people to leave the bus whereas in NYC drivers let farebeaters on and push the farebeat button. 

Because that's what they are told to do.

[checkmatechamp13]

On 1/20/2022 at 2:28 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

With the Fair Fares Program, I think it's more than equitable...

 

On 1/21/2022 at 9:00 AM, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

...and with all these government programs and MTA fare programs, everyone in that category should be eligible. 

The Fair Fares program is a joke. If you work any significant amount, you already don't qualify. (Minimum wage is $15 per hour, and you need to make $12,000 per year or less...that means if you're working a minimum wage job for more than 16 hours a week, you don't qualify). Now of course, if you work off the books or have a ton of kids, then that's a different story. But this program, like many others is not geared towards the working poor. You end up with a situation where someone in a borderline situation turns down extra hours because otherwise they'll lose their benefits.

Edited January 23, 2022 by checkmatechamp13

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I looked into this Fair Fares Program. According to this article from 2021, 245,000 New Yorkers are enrolled in it, and it suggests that plenty more New Yorkers are eligible for it.

https://www.cssny.org/news/entry/lets-get-more-new-yorkers-enrolled-in-fair-fares#:~:text=Today%2C more than 245%2C000 New,the aftermath of the pandemic.

Whoever isn't eligible should be able to afford the $2.75 fare.

[R10 2952]

@checkmatechamp13 Yeah, the direction things are going with cost-of-living in NYC, you'll either have to be a millionaire to afford the prices, or a rock-bottom crackhead to qualify for help.  It's f**king stupid.  

Edited January 23, 2022 by R10 2952

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

 

The Fair Fares program is a joke. If you work any significant amount, you already don't qualify. (Minimum wage is $15 per hour, and you need to make $12,000 per year or less...that means if you're working a minimum wage job for more than 16 hours a week, you don't qualify). Now of course, if you work off the books or have a ton of kids, then that's a different story. But this program, like many others is not geared towards the working poor. You end up with a situation where someone in a borderline situation turns down extra hours because otherwise they'll lose their benefits.

 

1 hour ago, R10 2952 said:

@checkmatechamp13 Yeah, the direction things are going with cost-of-living in NYC, you'll either have to be a millionaire to afford the prices, or a rock-bottom crackhead to qualify for help.  It's f**king stupid.  

Yeah, when you means test the shit out of stuff and put all these (often unrealistic) requirements, you get stuff like that. In many instances, the administration costs end up eating up a good chunk of costs and/or makes the process slow for no reason. Then people wanna complain that such program as a whole is ineffective because it people don't wanna work and so, and it requires "a lot" of funding. I could go on and on, but that's a separate discussion. 

Going back to the Fair Fares side (and not just limited to that particular program), think about who sets the limits, the eligibility guidelines. More likely than not, it's gonna be someone who gets PAID and is out of touch with what people need (financially) to survive with just the basics. Like you're gonna tell me, that according to the eligibility guidelines, that a household of three that makes $23,030.01 is all of a sudden now gonna be able to afford everything and/or live lavishly, in New York?! LOL.

Edited January 23, 2022 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Mtatransit]

On 1/20/2022 at 2:28 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

but the Progressives will yell and scream that it punishes poverty and how we need an "equitable system". Every time that they have proposed fare hikes, I have spoken at hearings calling for them to address their farebeating problem, and the board members look mystified. Yes, get your fiscal house in order...

With the Fair Fares Program, I think it's more than equitable, but people just don't want to pay, period.

While income does play a role in farebeating, the more society/lack of enforcement allows it, the more prevalent it becomes. On Staten Island, I see people who don't look like they are low income in Mid Island/South Shore fare beating as well. Same goes with any Manhattan subway station.

People are so used to farebeating that some go right towards the door expecting people to open it for them.

On 1/21/2022 at 9:41 AM, biGC323232 said:

Lol..Dam farebeating is that bad on staten island...Shit they mind as well go back to the open the back door covid rule.....Shit i live on a hood line here in Nj....I tell u some NJT drivers will blow ya spot if you try sneaking on the back....Some drivers go as far as to not move the bus until u pay ya fare

They might as well make the buses/trains free on the entire island and just charge a transfer on the ferry. I can guarantee you that more than 70% of the people that pay, will probably /or already have paid on the subway.

The people who ride within Staten Island, they walk right in. Gotta say, it makes the buses go so much faster that nobody needs to dip their MetroCard.

On 1/21/2022 at 12:35 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

.I recall a few incidents though. One night, we get on a S48 from the ferry. It had to be 9 or 10pm. We're sitting there wondering why we aren't moving. Driver makes it known that he isn't moving until some guy pays. The guy had boarded and sat down. Now everyone is becoming annoyed. Two other guys got up, pulled the guy up and literally shoved him off of the bus. LOL I don't know if he had did that before or what, but it was clear that the driver was not going to tolerate it. However, I recall another incident where a driver had some guys removed or something for not paying. They got his bus again, all paid and then beat him up at the end of the line, so I would imagine with those sorts of incidents and others where drivers were injured or worse that the  took the stance to not confront fare beaters, at least not on the local buses anyway. 

Some drivers still do this in Queens to this day. Even saw a couple of students being kicked off the bus for using their Student Metrocard on a holiday weekday. So it depends on the neighborhood. But elsewhere, haven't seen operators do it for a while now.

On 1/21/2022 at 12:35 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I will say though that Staten Island had an excuse because getting a Metrocard on the island can be impossible. Even I had to go around to various stores trying to get change because no one had any Metrocards, and the Eltingville Transit Center can have all of the machines broken (regular occurrence). For that reason, unless I was on vacation, I always refilled in the City. With OMNY now, there's less of an excuse.

At least SI have local bodegas that do sell Metrocard. In large portions of Nassau the closest couple of machines are at Hempstead Transit Center, and you don't see farebeating anywhere near the rate it is on Staten Island, and the buses still don't take OMNY to this day. Same goes with Bee Line, where there is no machines in the entire Westchester County minus the LIRR/MetroCard machines that sell you a MetroCard with a rail ticket. So I don't really buy that excuse.

And people who ride NICE are also not that much better off than people who ride SI locals

17 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I find a lot of NICE bus drivers are also strict when it comes to enforcing the fare. I’ve seen drivers tell people to leave the bus whereas in NYC drivers let farebeaters on and push the farebeat button. 

I see more people not paying their fares in Suffolk than in Nassau. But unlike SI, at least people give a sob story in Suffolk.

49 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Going back to the Fair Fares side (and not just limited to that particular program), think about who sets the limits, the eligibility guidelines. More likely than not, it's gonna be someone who gets PAID and is out of touch with what people need (financially) to survive with just the basics. Like you're gonna tell me, that according to the eligibility guidelines, that a household of three that makes $23,030.01 is all of a sudden now gonna be able to afford everything and/or live lavishly, in New York?! LOL.

I mean I am all for expanding the eligibility of fair fares to cover more people, but not the current progressive narrative that people should be allowed to farebeat and suffer close no consequences, or making the MTA "free".

[R10 2952]

2 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

think about who sets the limits, the eligibility guidelines. More likely than not, it's gonna be someone who gets PAID and is out of touch with what people need (financially) to survive with just the basics.

This right here, is the root cause of the problem.  It's what happens anytime an organization (public, private, educational, charitable, whatever) becomes too big for its own pants.  You end up with people in charge who are so out of touch with the ordinary, that they practically live in a bubble.

Overly-complicated solutions to problems, a lack of ability to answer questions directly, and an inability to use everyday vernacular language; all symptoms of this that we see all the time with 'leaders' across all of the social-political-economic spectrum nowadays.

It's like those damn "Medicare Supplement" commercials that keep running on TV now to manipulate and pander to boomers.  TF a retiree need 100 simultaneous plans to pay one co-pay? Like seriously, this country can't at least do single-payer healthcare for its senior citizens? Complete mess, like every other major problem the U.S. faces currently....

Edited January 24, 2022 by R10 2952

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

While income does play a role in farebeating, the more society/lack of enforcement allows it, the more prevalent it becomes. On Staten Island, I see people who don't look like they are low income in Mid Island/South Shore fare beating as well. Same goes with any Manhattan subway station.

People are so used to farebeating that some go right towards the door expecting people to open it for them.

They might as well make the buses/trains free on the entire island and just charge a transfer on the ferry. I can guarantee you that more than 70% of the people that pay, will probably /or already have paid on the subway.

The people who ride within Staten Island, they walk right in. Gotta say, it makes the buses go so much faster that nobody needs to dip their MetroCard.

Some drivers still do this in Queens to this day. Even saw a couple of students being kicked off the bus for using their Student Metrocard on a holiday weekday. So it depends on the neighborhood. But elsewhere, haven't seen operators do it for a while now.

At least SI have local bodegas that do sell Metrocard. In large portions of Nassau the closest couple of machines are at Hempstead Transit Center, and you don't see farebeating anywhere near the rate it is on Staten Island, and the buses still don't take OMNY to this day. Same goes with Bee Line, where there is no machines in the entire Westchester County minus the LIRR/MetroCard machines that sell you a MetroCard with a rail ticket. So I don't really buy that excuse.

And people who ride NICE are also not that much better off than people who ride SI locals

I see more people not paying their fares in Suffolk than in Nassau. But unlike SI, at least people give a sob story in Suffolk.

I mean I am all for expanding the eligibility of fair fares to cover more people, but not the current progressive narrative that people should be allowed to farebeat and suffer close no consequences, or making the MTA "free".

I think on Staten Island, the excuse has always been that it is so hard at times to get a Metrocard or refill, and this is true from my own experiences as a former Staten Island resident of over 10 years. It is incredibly aggravating, which is why I usually tried to refill in Manhattan as much as possible, but sometimes, if I was coming from being on vacation, I would need to refill on Staten Island. Yes, there are bodegas in some areas, but they are often out. Even if you have money and can buy something to get change, sometimes they don't even have enough change to give you for the bus because everyone else is trying to do the same thing. That is a big reason why the drivers just let it go. It is very frustrating for both parties, because it is the 's job to have an adequate amount of places for people to buy Metrocards or refill and like everything else with this agency, things fall through the cracks more times than not. I have enough struggled at times to refill in Manhattan because subway stations had all of their machines down. The OMNY card has been God send, as I now just refill my card via the OMNY website, BUT it is only pay-per-ride, so for people that need a pass, or have a reduced fare card or get their Metrocards via work, more times than not, they still have to deal with a Metrocard and don't have the luxury that I do. The only reason I can use OMNY now is because I am still working from home and just take public transit a few times a week, otherwise I'd be in the same situation.

You mention Mid Island and the South Shore. These areas have even fewer places to buy a Metrocard or refill, as they are even more suburban and remote areas (and believe me I can point to a number of such areas that are almost all residential) than the North Shore and while you may think that they have options, as I said above, the stores that do carry the Metrocards are often completely out and don't have enough change (in part because people would just buy whatever for change). The Eltingville Transit Center is one of the few places on the island where one can refill and the machines there (all three) are usually out, meaning no refills, no credit or debit card and no change either. If you have to drive around the island trying to get change or refill or get a Metrocard, it is not something that is an easy process depending on where you live, and you have to assume that everyone has a car or access to one to even do that, which is not always the case. I lived near the Staten Island Zoo, which in theory has some stores that sells Metrocards, etc., but they rarely had any Metrocards in stock and usually had no change to offer for the bus either. Sometimes I'd go by car to other neighborhoods further north by Victory Blvd and luck out and THEN I could finally get the express bus, but then there's all of the change and it getting stuck in the machine. Of course now the express buses no longer take change, but this is before then.

However, with OMNY now, there should be fewer excuses to allow this, but while the transition from the Metrocard to OMNY continues, there are still people that are legitimately SOL because they get a discount with their Metrocard or their Transit card and the transition of these programs to use OMNY has been slow, so you can't really judge people when you really don't know how difficult it is for people on Staten Island. Prior to OMNY there were always calls for more places where islanders could refill, etc. The only places are the Staten Island Ferry, Eltingville Transit Center and the Tompkinsville SIR stop. Three measly locations for a population of almost 500,000 people is pathetic. The Eltingville Transit Center really serves a chunk of people on the South Shore and parts of the Mid island and it is no secret that the South Shore has had a population boom. There should be more than the Eltingville Transit Center for sure, which is where most people go, especially if they need to refill because that's their only option unless they drive all the way to the North Shore.

The assumption that higher income neighborhoods should automatically have low farebeating rates... Not always the case. In my current neighborhood in Riverdale where I have lived for over ten years  I am in what is considered "Downtown" Riverdale, one of the few walkable parts of the greater Riverdale area, (which is quite remote and suburban feeling parts) in Central Riverdale, and even here, getting a Metrocard is no easy feat. There is only one store near me that carries any sort of Metrocard and they are often out. Years ago, I gave up on them, and just prepared to either go by car and take Metro-North into Grand Central and refill there, OR make my way to Broadway to one of the  train stations and refill, but even that comes with challenges. 238th St only has one Metrocard machine, which is often broken. 242nd has two big MVMs and I believe one small debit/credit card machine and there is always at least one machine busted. I wrote to my then Senator many times about this issue because it's not right. It never improved, so my point is that there are people that legitimately WANT to pay, but prior to OMNY, the  did not make it easy to do so. Yes, I live in an upper income neighborhood, and while we have low farebeating levels, we definitely have had to fight to get better access to refilling Metrocards. My Assembylman fought tooth and nail to get the Metrocard trucks to come back to my neighborhood and to Woodlawn, as both neighborhoods do not have subway access and have high senior populations. The  has tried to cut back on those services, but they have not been quick enough with the OMNY rollover for seniors, so how can you try to cut back on these trucks but then not expedite the rollout for the senior OMNY cards? It's an argument that I had with the  a few years ago when they eliminated coins on express buses. 

This interview below done by CBS was spearheaded by me, as I told the reporter some areas to go to to cover the difficulties people have in refilling their Metrocard, and you you will see that they are all upper income areas, such as Spuyten Duyvil (South Riverdale), Bay Ridge, Fresh Meadows, parts of Staten Island, etc. The Gothamist interviewed me for that story by phone for a good 45 minutes one afternoon, and then CBS called me to do  story in person, but I wasn't available, so I told the reporter where to go to interview people.

https://gothamist.com/news/express-bus-service-goes-cashless-leaving-some-riders-in-a-jam

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/04/30/whose-bright-idea-was-this-cashless-mta-express-bus-metrocard/

[GojiMet86]

On 1/11/2022 at 11:52 AM, Snorunts said:

Has 3960, 3962, 3975, 4438, 4455 hit service?

 

On 1/11/2022 at 12:53 PM, Ultimategamer12c said:

Not that Ik of if they did then some of there trackers are untraceable atm.

 

On 1/11/2022 at 1:25 PM, Santana04 said:

4438 is on service the others i don't think they have go out yet

 

3960 is now in service. Currently untrackable and on the Q69.

[Santana04]

2 hours ago, GojiMet86 said:

 

 

 

3960 is now in service. Currently untrackable and on the Q69.

As of now they all have been in service 

[NewFlyer 230]

I don’t get why Metrocard machines were never installed at various stores in Staten Island, Queens and other places where it’s harder to obtain a metrocard and or refill your card. I know you would have to factor in the cost to maintain such machines but if farebeating is out of control I think installing machines in stores could have been a great solution. However with OMNY there isn’t a need anymore especially once they give us the unlimited options. I can’t wait for NICE to get OMNY. I’m surprised they don’t have it yet. 

[Cait Sith]

32 minutes ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I don’t get why Metrocard machines were never installed at various stores in Staten Island, Queens and other places where it’s harder to obtain a metrocard and or refill your card. I know you would have to factor in the cost to maintain such machines but if farebeating is out of control I think installing machines in stores could have been a great solution. However with OMNY there isn’t a need anymore especially once they give us the unlimited options. I can’t wait for NICE to get OMNY. I’m surprised they don’t have it yet. 

It would depend on the store owners if they want the machines or not. It's not like they can just walk in and be like "YO, WE ARE PUTTING METROCARD MACHINES IN HERE WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT".

Some stores used to sell both pay-per-ride and unlimited metrocards, I'm not sure if that still happens, but I know some locations for sure stopped selling metrocards altogether. The BP gas station on Atlantic/Van Wyck stopped selling Metrocards about a year or two ago.