BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[Cait Sith]

In this case it has nothing to do with age and everything to deal with fuel. Diesel buses will always handle that incline better than a hybrid bus no matter the ages of the two buses.

 

Eh....that's not exactly true. The only reason they will is because the hybrids have a smaller engine, however, there are some hybrid buses out of Yukon that will climb up the bridge with ease and will literally air out 40ft diesel buses(there's no way a hybrid would air out an express bus). We also have to remember that those hybrids are governed at some odd speeds between 40-50mph.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Cait Sith

[Fresh Pond]

In this case it has nothing to do with age and everything to deal with fuel. Diesel buses will always handle that incline better than a hybrid bus no matter the ages of the two buses.

It can't be the fuel, since both buses use the same ultra low sulfur diesel fuel.

[Around the Horn]

It can't be the fuel, since both buses use the same ultra low sulfur diesel fuel.

I understand that. I was grasping at straws for a word (other than propulsion) that could describe the two.

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

Well answer this then... Would his commute be any faster if they didn't use the lower deck?  He asked specifically because he clearly wants a faster commute.  I personally don't see how it would make a difference.  Besides those local buses struggle to get over the bridge as it is.  lol

 

It was never this serious tbh, but of course you always gotta turn something into an argument. I asked a simple question. Commuting out of Staten Island into Brooklyn every morning is a pain in terms of traffic. And they are doing  a bunch of construction on the upper level which has narrow lanes. The 92nd street exit on the lower level always has a long line of cars that's backed up to the ramp of the bridge, because of the stop sign and the red light (plus because more people wanna take the lower level since they don't wanna deal with the big trucks and buses, plus there being narrow lanes on the upper level). The upper level 92nd street exit is never packed because of the positioning of the stop sign off the bridge, its further away. 

 

And oh, yes it would make the commute faster, because we wouldn't be sitting on an exit ramp for 20 mins on a jammed packed bus. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It was never this serious tbh, but of course you always gotta turn something into an argument. I asked a simple question. Commuting out of Staten Island into Brooklyn every morning is a pain in terms of traffic. And they are doing  a bunch of construction on the upper level which has narrow lanes. The 92nd street exit on the lower level always has a long line of cars that's backed up to the ramp of the bridge, because of the stop sign and the red light (plus because more people wanna take the lower level since they don't wanna deal with the big trucks and buses, plus there being narrow lanes on the upper level). The upper level 92nd street exit is never packed because of the positioning of the stop sign off the bridge, its further away. 

 

And oh, yes it would make the commute faster, because we wouldn't be sitting on an exit ramp for 20 mins on a jammed packed bus. 

It isn't my fault if you can't handle the advice I was trying to give you.  Construction or not, you will be stuck in that mess just about every day during the rush (I know from experience), so either change up your commute or deal with it.  You don't really have much options quite frankly aside from driving to Brooklyn.

[Cait Sith]

It isn't my fault if you can't handle the advice I was trying to give you.  Construction or not, you will be stuck in that mess just about every day during the rush (I know from experience), so either change up your commute or deal with it.  You don't really have much options quite frankly aside from driving to Brooklyn.

Let's be honest. This whole thing would've been avoided if you didn't mock him for his travel options and you bringing up express buses in the first place(which was already irrelevant to begin with), in which, he didn't mention any, and then you assuming he was going to Manhattan, which he wasn't. You've always had a problem when it comes to reading too far into things.

To sum it up, you were looking for attention and you were being an a**hole all at once. Stop being a f**king diva.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Cait Sith

[Jdog14]

In this case it has nothing to do with age and everything to deal with fuel. Diesel buses will always handle that incline better than a hybrid bus no matter the ages of the two buses.

 

This isn't entirely true. It all bows down to horsepower, the tuning of the bus, and other factors that come into play aswell. Ride a Flatbush NG uphill to Crown Heights they get up the hill fairly easy (mind you with a bus packed to the rafters).

[Around the Horn]

This isn't entirely true. It all bows down to horsepower, the tuning of the bus, and other factors that come into play aswell. Ride a Flatbush NG uphill to Crown Heights they get up the hill fairly easy (mind you with a bus packed to the rafters).

I understand your point but I was specifically referring to the inclines on the Verrazano which hybrids have always struggled with since they entered service.

[Jdog14]

I understand your point but I was specifically referring to the inclines on the Verrazano which hybrids have always struggled with since they entered service.

 

Understood.

[IAlam]

I understand your point but I was specifically referring to the inclines on the Verrazano which hybrids have always struggled with since they entered service.

How about the LFS they are clean diesel I would assume they would perform better  

[DetSMART45]

This isn't entirely true. It all bows down to horsepower, the tuning of the bus, and other factors that come into play aswell. Ride a Flatbush NG uphill to Crown Heights they get up the hill fairly easy (mind you with a bus packed to the rafters).

 

 

I understand your point but I was specifically referring to the inclines on the Verrazano which hybrids have always struggled with since they entered service.

I'll agree with hybrids having problems taking on inclines.  One route follows a section which has a significant incline, the road is four lanes and a 50 mph speed limit.  On a hybrid, you can hear the engine struggling, especially if the traffic lights at the bottom necessitate a full-stop starting position.  Even if the pacer-lights before the bottom allow a "running start" down into the lowest point (say getting to a 25-30 mph range before the uphill climb), it's very audible during ascent.

 

Interestingly, this road segment is a non-stop portion (community doesn't fund SMART), and most operators still run in the curb-lane over using the middle lanes, and also don't do what you're taught in driving school when approaching an incline and give it the beans before the uphill climb.  Diesels do it OK due to this way of driving, but those hybrids get cars changing lanes and passing them.

 

Overall, though, our hybrids -- the oldest of which have been in occasional use since 2011 -- definitely have slower acceleration than straight diesels.  Plus the operators don't like the front door interlock on the new arrivals which delays opening until a complete stop has been achieved.  Customers don't like it either, since you hear the door release, but doesn't open right away -- and if you're not careful, you could end up faceplanting.  Even rode a DDOT hybrid, and acceleration (with lower overall road speeds to get to) is not close to if you full-throttle a diesel from a complete stop.

[R188 7857]

I really don't seem to have an issue with the hybrids at CS. Any NG or OG can climb up this hill on Crocheron on the Q28 without problem. The hybrids in my opinion are faster than the XD40s, but it could just be the drivers though. 

[trainfan22]

I really don't seem to have an issue with the hybrids at CS. Any NG or OG can climb up this hill on Crocheron on the Q28 without problem. The hybrids in my opinion are faster than the XD40s, but it could just be the drivers though. 

The Hybrids are faster at lower end speeds cause the acceleration is electric on the hybrids, the diesel engine takes over at higher speeds IIRC. 

 

I know at one point buses with the ISL/Allison combo (Like the 1700s in Nassau for example) was so fast the B/O's had to be gentle with the gas pedal... I wonder if the XD40s are like that?

Edited February 12, 2016 by trainfan22

[Cait Sith]

The Hybrids are faster at lower end speeds cause the acceleration is electric on the hybrids, the diesel engine takes over at higher speeds IIRC. 

 

I know at one point buses with the ISL/Allison combo (Like the 1700s in Nassau for example) was so fast the B/O's had to be gentle with the gas pedal... I wonder if the XD40s are like that?

 

The 7000 series XD40s are comparable to any bus with the ZF Ecolife to be honest, they modified the transmission for fuel savings. The 4800s on the other hand are different in that regard.

[BlazingCyndaquil155]

I just noticed that the B46 - Fillmore Avenue runs are not mapped on any bus schedules/timetables. The only B46 short runs shown are the Avenue H to Eastern Parkway / ones. What's up with that?

[DetSMART45]

I just noticed that the B46 - Fillmore Avenue runs are not mapped on any bus schedules/timetables. The only B46 short runs shown are the Avenue H to Eastern Parkway / ones. What's up with that?

Printed timetables and maps thereon are exactly the same from current (effective September 6, 2015) to previous (effective August 31, 2014).  The six timetable points are also the same.  You must have a schedule dated prior to 2014.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Let's be honest. This whole thing would've been avoided if you didn't mock him for his travel options and you bringing up express buses in the first place(which was already irrelevant to begin with), in which, he didn't mention any, and then you assuming he was going to Manhattan, which he wasn't. You've always had a problem when it comes to reading too far into things.

To sum it up, you were looking for attention and you were being an a**hole all at once. Stop being a f**king diva.

Please.  I tried to be helpful and it was taken out of context completely. Period.  In any event, his question was answered, so let's move on.

[DetSMART45]

Please.  I tried to be helpful and it was taken out of context completely. Period.  In any event, his question was answered, so let's move on.

I agree.  How hard is it, really, to change a commute pattern?  If you're going to admit that it's a PITA to be stuck on a bus going nowhere for 20 minutes, creating the likelihood of missing future connections/being late to where you're going, then why keep doing it?  Take the next earlier (or even the next-next earlier) bus instead.  Traffic flow can vary dependent upon the times.  In a lot of cases, traffic can be lighter on those earlier trips.  Why put yourself in the same situation over and over again?

 

However, I do fault the MTA for not having the buses -- no matter Local or what -- travel the path of least resistance.  All they're doing is reinforcing the idea that if you're going to experience a traffic delay, why spend it on a crowded bus when you could go by car if everything's the same, defeating the purpose of getting people to use the buses in the first place.  Giving the bus operators a little bit more latitude to make road decisions as they see fit -- within reason -- benefits customers in the long run.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I agree.  How hard is it, really, to change a commute pattern?  If you're going to admit that it's a PITA to be stuck on a bus going nowhere for 20 minutes, creating the likelihood of missing future connections/being late to where you're going, then why keep doing it?  Take the next earlier (or even the next-next earlier) bus instead.  Traffic flow can vary dependent upon the times.  In a lot of cases, traffic can be lighter on those earlier trips.  Why put yourself in the same situation over and over again?

Cait is going to argue that he (XcelsiorBoi) didn't ask all of that but listen, I've done the same commute years ago when I lived on Staten Island, and it was the same exact thing then.  What did I do?  I changed my commute.  Quite frankly I was trying to give the kid advice and he turns around and gets pissed off and acts immature.  Traffic is worsening in NYC, and that's the way it is.  I take an even earlier bus to get in now, or I have to use Metro-North.  The doesn't appear to care about improving bus service, so gotta roll with the punches.  No mocking going on at all.  Just telling it like it is.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Blitz]

The Hybrids are faster at lower end speeds cause the acceleration is electric on the hybrids, the diesel engine takes over at higher speeds IIRC. 

 

I know at one point buses with the ISL/Allison combo (Like the 1700s in Nassau for example) was so fast the B/O's had to be gentle with the gas pedal... I wonder if the XD40s are like that?

The engine has nothing to do with moving a hybrid bus other than turning the traction generator to charge the batteries. They shouldn't even be called "hybrids" because that implies that their are 2 sources of propultion. They should be called diesel electric buses. The acceleration is 100% electric at all speeds. The speed going up hill depends on the charge of the batteries and/or the settings in the PCS.

[DetSMART45]

The engine has nothing to do with moving a hybrid bus other than turning the traction generator to charge the batteries. They shouldn't even be called "hybrids" because that implies that their are 2 sources of propultion. They should be called diesel electric buses. The acceleration is 100% electric at all speeds. The speed going up hill depends on the charge of the batteries and/or the settings in the PCS.

Thanks for that important clarification.  It seems too many seem to classify CNGs as "hybrids".  And think that DEs operate similar to regular car "hybrids", like a Prius or Volt, which can switch-over to engine power when the charge gets low.

[Fresh Pond]

I agree. How hard is it, really, to change a commute pattern? If you're going to admit that it's a PITA to be stuck on a bus going nowhere for 20 minutes, creating the likelihood of missing future connections/being late to where you're going, then why keep doing it? Take the next earlier (or even the next-next earlier) bus instead. Traffic flow can vary dependent upon the times. In a lot of cases, traffic can be lighter on those earlier trips. Why put yourself in the same situation over and over again?

 

However, I do fault the MTA for not having the buses -- no matter Local or what -- travel the path of least resistance. All they're doing is reinforcing the idea that if you're going to experience a traffic delay, why spend it on a crowded bus when you could go by car if everything's the same, defeating the purpose of getting people to use the buses in the first place. Giving the bus operators a little bit more latitude to make road decisions as they see fit -- within reason -- benefits customers in the long run.

It's damn near impossible to change his commute.

 

He goes to school in Bay Ridge, and coming from Staten Island, you only got 2 buses to take you across the bridge. The only other way he can get to school is via the SI Ferry & train, but that's a complete backtrack through Staten Island, Lower Manhattan, and a good chunk of Brooklyn.

 

Not many options he has except for the S53/79

[Around the Horn]

It's damn near impossible to change his commute.

 

He goes to school in Bay Ridge, and coming from Staten Island, you only got 2 buses to take you across the bridge. The only other way he can get to school is via the SI Ferry & train, but that's a complete backtrack through Staten Island, Lower Manhattan, and a good chunk of Brooklyn.

 

Not many options he has except for the S53/79

THANK YOU!!! About time someone realized that...

 

Seriously you expect him to change his commute at the drop of a hat? I'd like to know what other bus takes you from Staten Island to Bay Ridge...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It's damn near impossible to change his commute.

 

He goes to school in Bay Ridge, and coming from Staten Island, you only got 2 buses to take you across the bridge. The only other way he can get to school is via the SI Ferry & train, but that's a complete backtrack through Staten Island, Lower Manhattan, and a good chunk of Brooklyn.

 

Not many options he has except for the S53/79

His options are MUCH better than what I had when I lived on the island.  He has far more frequent S93 service that runs longer, AND S79SBS service.  There are always options... His options are to LEAVE earlier, or go to a school that's closer on the island.  

[DetSMART45]

It's damn near impossible to change his commute.

 

He goes to school in Bay Ridge, and coming from Staten Island, you only got 2 buses to take you across the bridge. The only other way he can get to school is via the SI Ferry & train, but that's a complete backtrack through Staten Island, Lower Manhattan, and a good chunk of Brooklyn.

 

Not many options he has except for the S53/79

Oh please.  Look at the arrivals in Bay Ridge between just the hours of 6:00am to 7:30am:  S53--13, S79--14.  There are plenty of opportunities to adjust a commute.

 

You wanna start talking about no real choices?  Back in 2008 when I worked only 25 miles away, I had to budget 2.5 hours (time leaving the house until the time I started work) because buses were on 60 minute headways during AM Peak.  If I drove myself, I could cut that down to around 30 minutes -- and that's in rush hour traffic.  However, I wasn't driving myself, so that's what I had to do via the bus.  I'd leave my house at 5:30am and not return until just before 7:00pm, and then rinse and repeat.

 

Stop thinking that you've got it sooooo hard.  Learn to use the MTA Trip Planner.  Take some responsibility -- you're going to have to do it eventually.

 

Sorry for the confrontational rant, but it just irks me to no end that with your expansive transit system, some will play the "poor me" crap just because it might mean getting an earlier start.  There are LOTS more ways to get around with the MTA than almost any other transit system in the country.